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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 24, 2022 17:03:23 GMT
And? Over a million people have emigrated to the UK this year, legally, that's not taking control of our borders and you know it. Over a million, I thought the report was just over 500k. Take off 250k, from hong kong 70k and Ukraine 177k, that leaves about 250k, 50k illegals on the boats, it's down to 200k If they are here legally then they have been controlled, haven't they? It's not what they said about getting it down to 10's of thousands I agree, and where are we supposed to put all these people when we can't house our own grown up children and families properly. It's over a million, that's why I provided you a link from the ONS saying so. So you can add another 500k to your total. Net was just over 500k. Oh and your so called 'illegals' aren't included in the figures and we've got 143,000 people currently waiting to be considered there. As I said originally, claiming that we've taken control of our borders, is disingenuous at best. Where are we supposed to house all these people? Isn't that what Brexit was supposed to be addressing?
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 24, 2022 17:13:46 GMT
No my opinion hasn’t changed overall I still hold to the opinion that overall migrants are hard working There was and still are to many arriving without the infrastructure being improved to accommodate them This to me is a exceptional year due to the events in my post above I will predict that the net numbers will fall dramatically from this years artificial high This country should offer asylum to anyone facing oppression it is only right to do so And there should be a method for people to do so without risking there lives on a dodgy inflatable As for economic migration that is entirely a different matter and should be assessed purely on the country’s need at the time If its an exception due to immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong. Then why do we have a record number of immigrants coming in even when you subtract those from Ukraine and HK? If you subtract the above net immigration is less than three hundred thousand Which is hardly a record
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Post by gawa on Nov 24, 2022 17:35:28 GMT
If its an exception due to immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong. Then why do we have a record number of immigrants coming in even when you subtract those from Ukraine and HK? If you subtract the above net immigration is less than three hundred thousand Which is hardly a record This thread is about immigration though. Not net migration. And we do have a record amount of immigrants. We also have a record amount of illegal immigrants. And if you did deduct the immigrants from Ukraine/HK from the end of year total it would still be higher than any net migration under labour. And may even break the tories current record of net migration from 2015. But sure they're the party that's getting "control of our borders" haha.
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Post by Northy on Nov 24, 2022 17:35:33 GMT
No my opinion hasn’t changed overall I still hold to the opinion that overall migrants are hard working There was and still are to many arriving without the infrastructure being improved to accommodate them This to me is a exceptional year due to the events in my post above I will predict that the net numbers will fall dramatically from this years artificial high This country should offer asylum to anyone facing oppression it is only right to do so And there should be a method for people to do so without risking there lives on a dodgy inflatable As for economic migration that is entirely a different matter and should be assessed purely on the country’s need at the time If its an exception due to immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong. Then why do we have a record number of immigrants coming in even when you subtract those from Ukraine and HK? Those figures also include 270,000 students paying for the privilege. Only about 50k left the UK, and I'm still only seeing figures in the 500k
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Post by gawa on Nov 24, 2022 17:37:57 GMT
If its an exception due to immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong. Then why do we have a record number of immigrants coming in even when you subtract those from Ukraine and HK? Those figures also include 270,000 students paying for the privilege. Only about 50k left the UK, and I'm still only seeing figures in the 500k Students migrating isn't a new thing though. 2001 had students. As did 2011. And so did 2021. Without sounding like a dick. It feels like you're trying to manipulate the statistics because you don't like the truth.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 24, 2022 17:40:16 GMT
Those figures also include 270,000 students paying for the privilege. Only about 50k left the UK, and I'm still only seeing figures in the 500k Students migrating isn't a new thing though. 2001 had students. As did 2011. And so did 2021. Without sounding like a dick. It feels like you're trying to manipulate the statistics because you don't like the truth. Indeed and it's not like we started taking refugees for the first time this year either.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 24, 2022 17:40:22 GMT
We have complete control of our borders, as we did when we were in the EU.
We are so much in control of our borders that the government has chosen a policy to ensure those seeking asylum come via illegal means only, such as in small boats across the channel, by ensuring there are no safe and legal methods of getting here otherwise. That is a conscious decision as was proven with Braverman’s staggeringly bad performance in front of the select committee yesterday, where she admitted illegal means are the ONLY way for anyone to seek asylum in England outside of the specific schemes for HK, Ukraine and Afghanistan.
That’s what you get with the nasty party in charge.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 24, 2022 17:56:38 GMT
"Suella Braverman has revived a previous Conservative pledge to reduce net migration to tens of thousands of people, despite the failure of successive governments to hit the same target over a nine-year period".
They're so full of shit, aren't they!
How daft do you have to be to keep believing what they say?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 24, 2022 18:01:37 GMT
If its an exception due to immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong. Then why do we have a record number of immigrants coming in even when you subtract those from Ukraine and HK? If you subtract the above net immigration is less than three hundred thousand Which is hardly a record When dedicated Brexiteers are defending 300,000 immigrants, when numbers like that used to be the main reason for voting Leave, you've just got to laugh at the mental gymnastics necessary to carry on convincing yourself it's all still a good idea!
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 24, 2022 18:21:11 GMT
I have read this debate with interest as a Brexiteer who is in favour of immigration provided it is controlled. It seems to me that capitalists like Wolfson want immigration for cheap labour, Starmer is against because it takes Labour supporters jobs leads to low wages and creates unemployment of UK citizens, and the Tories don't want immigration for reasons that are for them to give, and others to accuse and abuse them of. Legal immigration is at record levels for a lot of reasons, but the point is they have all gone through the process, including some who arrived by illegal means, and we can count the visas. But the elephant in the room is that when we were in the EU we did not know how many immigrants were arriving from the EU. At the time of the referendum there was dispute about whether the 2 or 3 million EU citizens should be allowed to vote. Surprise, surprise, having started the process to leave there are over 5 million EU applications for citizenship. www.gov.uk/government/statistics/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-june-2022/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-june-2022There are vastly increased numbers of students coming and the UK has exceeded the 2030 target already. Providers of student accommodation are making a mint. Many of those students will remain in the UK and contribute to the economy in jobs that need filling. There is a vast number of visas granted to those who wish to join relatives, which is a human right I don't think can be denied. About a third (>300,000) are work visas to fill jobs that need filling and are not displacing UK citizens. What's wrong with that? They are contributing to the economy and provision of public services. The problem is the shortage of low paid workers to fill jobs like social services, harvesting, slaughter house workers, fishermen, etc. This is the area Starmer is concerned about I think. The solution is twofold. Firstly pay more (but we all have to pay), and automation, robotics , etc. Need is the mother of invention and it will happen but take time. The end product is we move away from a society with high unemployment, loads of cheap labour from abroad, and large disparity in wealth. It may mean I have to wash my car instead of a gang of "slave workers" avoiding taxes, but surely that is a better society? Finally we are not alone in our problems. There are countless number of immigrants arriving in Europe from Africa and the Middle East. Many countries in Europe have to cope with a far bigger issues than the UK. Germany is looking at relaxing their immigration rules to satisfy their huge shortage of workers. www.y-axis.com/news/germany-eases-immigration-rules-to-avoid-shortage-of-2-5-lakh-skilled-workers/amp/
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Post by wannabee on Nov 24, 2022 19:25:45 GMT
If its an exception due to immigrants from Ukraine and Hong Kong. Then why do we have a record number of immigrants coming in even when you subtract those from Ukraine and HK? If you subtract the above net immigration is less than three hundred thousand Which is hardly a record Your calculations are wrong, IT IS A RECORD If you take away 89K Ukranians 21K Afghans and 50K HK's = 160K from 504K you get 344K normalised net net migration This is the HIGHEST net figure since records began in 1964. www.statista.com/statistics/283287/net-migration-figures-of-the-united-kingdom-y-on-y/Ironic that it should occur in first six months of Brexit, after Taking Back Control of Borders and money I accept for some Brexiteers immigration is not an issue, for many it is And it's certainly not what was promised on the Tin
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Post by gawa on Nov 24, 2022 20:57:24 GMT
I have read this debate with interest as a Brexiteer who is in favour of immigration provided it is controlled. It seems to me that capitalists like Wolfson want immigration for cheap labour, Starmer is against because it takes Labour supporters jobs leads to low wages and creates unemployment of UK citizens, and the Tories don't want immigration for reasons that are for them to give, and others to accuse and abuse them of. Legal & Illegal immigration is at record levels for a lot of reasons, but the point is they have all gone through the process, including some who arrived by illegal means, and we can count the visas. But the elephant in the room is that when we were in the EU we did not know how many immigrants were arriving from the EU. At the time of the referendum there was dispute about whether the 2 or 3 million EU citizens should be allowed to vote. Surprise, surprise, having started the process to leave there are over 5 million EU applications for citizenship. We had 445k immigrants in 2016 compared to 1.15 million immigrants in 2022 YTD. Given that's 100k a month, you'd expect us to reach 1.25 million by the end of the year. Are you suggesting that for every immigrant in 2016 we may have had another 2 living illegally with no visas? And that today that number is now 0? We have had over 40k illegal immigrants arrive by small boats this year to date compared to 300 in 2018. And (I can't remember exact percent) less than 10% of their applications have been processed too. And these are only the ones we know about that are detected; you can sure bet there are thousands upon thousands more.
And lets not also forget that we no longer have the dublin agreement to fall back on either which as I have said previously acted as a massive deterrent to those on small boats.www.gov.uk/government/statistics/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-june-2022/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-june-2022There are vastly increased numbers of students coming and the UK has exceeded the 2030 target already. Providers of student accommodation are making a mint. Many of those students will remain in the UK and contribute to the economy in jobs that need filling. Is this a good thing? That is student accommodation and spaces which uk citizens could be getting to up skill. Same goes for student accommodation which is expensive enough as it is despite increasing demand through international students. Your claim that most of them stay in the uk to fill jobs is completely false too. The below graph is from the Migrant Journey 2021 Report published by the government
Number of people issued an initial Sponsored study¹ visa in 2007 to 2016, broken down by their immigration status after five years
Source - www.gov.uk/government/statistics/migrant-journey-2021-report/migrant-journey-2021-report
Yes that's right. Less than 1% have settled status and after 5 years of their initial study visa being granted, less than 20% still have a valid visa. In an economic climate where we have a NHS crisis, economic crisis and housing crisis. The last thing we need is more international students adding further stress to the housing market and nhs while contributing nothing to the economy. Especially when the vast majority of them don't settle here either as shown by the above graphic.
In addition to the above this also opens up a whole other area to be abused given how much easier it is to obtain a student visa. It's pretty much a backdoor in. The NAO found in 2012 that 40k-50k of those who arrived on student visas may have actual come to work rather than study. In 2019 they also reported large scale cheating at two English language test centres and organised fraud.
Did you know there are actual 4 universities in London alone which have more international students than uk students. The 4th most prestigious university in the UK (London School of Economics) had 67% of their enrolled students as internationals. Why are our best universities being filled up with international students who don't stay? There is a vast number of visas granted to those who wish to join relatives, which is a human right I don't think can be denied. About a third (>300,000) are work visas to fill jobs that need filling and are not displacing UK citizens. What's wrong with that? They are contributing to the economy and provision of public services. You tell me. You didn't seem too fond of the free movement of people from the EU who were mostly arriving here on working visa's. And again lets not forgot the economic strain, housing strain and nhs strain either. It's ok for the wealthy who make money from housing demand and pay privately for their health care; actually it's beneficial. Especially as more demand for jobs helps drive down wages too for wealthy business owners. With a recession round the corner and job losses looming. I'm sure a lot of people may begin to resent the immigrants who are taking their jobs for less money.The problem is the shortage of low paid workers to fill jobs like social services, harvesting, slaughter house workers, fishermen, etc. This is the area Starmer is concerned about I think. The solution is twofold. Firstly pay more (but we all have to pay), and automation, robotics , etc. Need is the mother of invention and it will happen but take time. The end product is we move away from a society with high unemployment, loads of cheap labour from abroad, and large disparity in wealth. It may mean I have to wash my car instead of a gang of "slave workers" avoiding taxes, but surely that is a 2 years better society? Did we not used to get a load of people who came on seasonal visas to do jobs such as harvesting from the EU? We've just signed a trade deal with India which allows for oven easier immigration. Did you know they have had 90% more student visa applications in the last year? And guess what is on the "Skilled worker list"? Customer support analyst aka call centre inbound support. I think what you believe to be "skilled work" is a stretch of the imagination. And lets not forget these people who come in on their worker visas can bring their partners and kids who may be less skilled. So again... you're grasping at straws.Finally we are not alone in our problems. There are countless number of immigrants arriving in Europe from Africa and the Middle East. Many countries in Europe have to cope with a far bigger issues than the UK. Germany is looking at relaxing their immigration rules to satisfy their huge shortage of workers. www.y-axis.com/news/germany-eases-immigration-rules-to-avoid-shortage-of-2-5-lakh-skilled-workers/amp/Lol. Another tory record broken for the wrong reasons. "We're not alone". Won't be long till we've got malnourished kids on the street and you'll still be defending this government saying we're not alone because there's kids in Africa just as malnourished and their hospitals are struggling too.Answers in red. Keep up the good fight MrCoke. I admire your stubbornness and perseverance and you deserver respect for that alone. A very trumpesque assurance in yourself and your beliefs despite everything around you showing the damage that Brexit and the conservative party have done to the UK. I imagine you are a man with strong values and principals which you hold close to your heart and rarely give in to peer pressure or budge. Fair play to you! And fair play for sticking around defending the indefensible, you'd make an excellent MP.
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Post by knype on Nov 25, 2022 6:50:57 GMT
I have read this debate with interest as a Brexiteer who is in favour of immigration provided it is controlled. It seems to me that capitalists like Wolfson want immigration for cheap labour, Starmer is against because it takes Labour supporters jobs leads to low wages and creates unemployment of UK citizens, and the Tories don't want immigration for reasons that are for them to give, and others to accuse and abuse them of. Legal & Illegal immigration is at record levels for a lot of reasons, but the point is they have all gone through the process, including some who arrived by illegal means, and we can count the visas. But the elephant in the room is that when we were in the EU we did not know how many immigrants were arriving from the EU. At the time of the referendum there was dispute about whether the 2 or 3 million EU citizens should be allowed to vote. Surprise, surprise, having started the process to leave there are over 5 million EU applications for citizenship. We had 445k immigrants in 2016 compared to 1.15 million immigrants in 2022 YTD. Given that's 100k a month, you'd expect us to reach 1.25 million by the end of the year. Are you suggesting that for every immigrant in 2016 we may have had another 2 living illegally with no visas? And that today that number is now 0? We have had over 40k illegal immigrants arrive by small boats this year to date compared to 300 in 2018. And (I can't remember exact percent) less than 10% of their applications have been processed too. And these are only the ones we know about that are detected; you can sure bet there are thousands upon thousands more.
And lets not also forget that we no longer have the dublin agreement to fall back on either which as I have said previously acted as a massive deterrent to those on small boats.www.gov.uk/government/statistics/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-june-2022/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-june-2022There are vastly increased numbers of students coming and the UK has exceeded the 2030 target already. Providers of student accommodation are making a mint. Many of those students will remain in the UK and contribute to the economy in jobs that need filling. Is this a good thing? That is student accommodation and spaces which uk citizens could be getting to up skill. Same goes for student accommodation which is expensive enough as it is despite increasing demand through international students. Your claim that most of them stay in the uk to fill jobs is completely false too. The below graph is from the Migrant Journey 2021 Report published by the government
Number of people issued an initial Sponsored study¹ visa in 2007 to 2016, broken down by their immigration status after five years
Source - www.gov.uk/government/statistics/migrant-journey-2021-report/migrant-journey-2021-report
Yes that's right. Less than 1% have settled status and after 5 years of their initial study visa being granted, less than 20% still have a valid visa. In an economic climate where we have a NHS crisis, economic crisis and housing crisis. The last thing we need is more international students adding further stress to the housing market and nhs while contributing nothing to the economy. Especially when the vast majority of them don't settle here either as shown by the above graphic.
In addition to the above this also opens up a whole other area to be abused given how much easier it is to obtain a student visa. It's pretty much a backdoor in. The NAO found in 2012 that 40k-50k of those who arrived on student visas may have actual come to work rather than study. In 2019 they also reported large scale cheating at two English language test centres and organised fraud.
Did you know there are actual 4 universities in London alone which have more international students than uk students. The 4th most prestigious university in the UK (London School of Economics) had 67% of their enrolled students as internationals. Why are our best universities being filled up with international students who don't stay? There is a vast number of visas granted to those who wish to join relatives, which is a human right I don't think can be denied. About a third (>300,000) are work visas to fill jobs that need filling and are not displacing UK citizens. What's wrong with that? They are contributing to the economy and provision of public services. You tell me. You didn't seem too fond of the free movement of people from the EU who were mostly arriving here on working visa's. And again lets not forgot the economic strain, housing strain and nhs strain either. It's ok for the wealthy who make money from housing demand and pay privately for their health care; actually it's beneficial. Especially as more demand for jobs helps drive down wages too for wealthy business owners. With a recession round the corner and job losses looming. I'm sure a lot of people may begin to resent the immigrants who are taking their jobs for less money.The problem is the shortage of low paid workers to fill jobs like social services, harvesting, slaughter house workers, fishermen, etc. This is the area Starmer is concerned about I think. The solution is twofold. Firstly pay more (but we all have to pay), and automation, robotics , etc. Need is the mother of invention and it will happen but take time. The end product is we move away from a society with high unemployment, loads of cheap labour from abroad, and large disparity in wealth. It may mean I have to wash my car instead of a gang of "slave workers" avoiding taxes, but surely that is a 2 years better society? Did we not used to get a load of people who came on seasonal visas to do jobs such as harvesting from the EU? We've just signed a trade deal with India which allows for oven easier immigration. Did you know they have had 90% more student visa applications in the last year? And guess what is on the "Skilled worker list"? Customer support analyst aka call centre inbound support. I think what you believe to be "skilled work" is a stretch of the imagination. And lets not forget these people who come in on their worker visas can bring their partners and kids who may be less skilled. So again... you're grasping at straws.Finally we are not alone in our problems. There are countless number of immigrants arriving in Europe from Africa and the Middle East. Many countries in Europe have to cope with a far bigger issues than the UK. Germany is looking at relaxing their immigration rules to satisfy their huge shortage of workers. www.y-axis.com/news/germany-eases-immigration-rules-to-avoid-shortage-of-2-5-lakh-skilled-workers/amp/Lol. Another tory record broken for the wrong reasons. "We're not alone". Won't be long till we've got malnourished kids on the street and you'll still be defending this government saying we're not alone because there's kids in Africa just as malnourished and their hospitals are struggling too.Answers in red. Keep up the good fight MrCoke. I admire your stubbornness and perseverance and you deserver respect for that alone. A very trumpesque assurance in yourself and your beliefs despite everything around you showing the damage that Brexit and the conservative party have done to the UK. I imagine you are a man with strong values and principals which you hold close to your heart and rarely give in to peer pressure or budge. Fair play to you! And fair play for sticking around defending the indefensible, you'd make an excellent MP. What an arrogant condescending post?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2022 9:21:11 GMT
How about those five Brexit benefits, knype?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 26, 2022 10:42:46 GMT
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Post by lordherefordsknob on Nov 26, 2022 10:51:10 GMT
A couple of days with the dust heads around Hanley, they will soon be making their way back to Dover to get out of here.
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 26, 2022 11:47:40 GMT
Doesn’t seem much support for it based upon the comments to the article.
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Post by Vicky Ground on Nov 26, 2022 13:05:13 GMT
The sentinel aren't telling the whole story
Staff were only informed a meeting yesterday lunchtime. Those staff who will lose their present roles are being offered different ones in the hotel, surprise surprise. That's the bar staff, event's staff, some catering staff and the leisure club staff
It's actually got a leisure club which is well run appreciated by it's members. They've been told that's it from tomorrow. There's no monthly DD, it's a 3,6 or 12 month subscription. What happens there. Then there are the swimming clubs like water babies who use it as it's perfect for their lessons. When Shelton pool shut some of the users there went to The Grand's leisure club. Ideal for those mental and physical challenges. They'll have to find somewhere else. All easier said than done
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Post by wannabee on Nov 26, 2022 15:04:02 GMT
Is it possible Hanley is seen as an equivalent alternative deterrent to Rwanda?
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Post by thevoid on Nov 26, 2022 15:39:22 GMT
Is there a worse city centre in the country than Hanley?
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 26, 2022 15:54:35 GMT
Is there a worse city centre in the country than Hanley? Not now 😂😂
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 26, 2022 16:32:09 GMT
International students pay extortionate fees and bring a lot of money to this country. So of course the Tories want to stop that.
The biggest anti Britain fucks around.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 26, 2022 18:23:58 GMT
Is there a worse city centre in the country than Hanley? Stoke on Trent votes Leave in huge numbers, what do the Tories do? Bung a shedload of asylum seekers in hotels around Stoke. Anyone feeling taken for a ride yet?! No? Still thinking they give a shit about you?
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Post by Northy on Nov 27, 2022 6:59:05 GMT
Those figures also include 270,000 students paying for the privilege. Only about 50k left the UK, and I'm still only seeing figures in the 500k Students migrating isn't a new thing though. 2001 had students. As did 2011. And so did 2021. Without sounding like a dick. It feels like you're trying to manipulate the statistics because you don't like the truth. Not at all, I'm all for keeping numbers low but the headlines make it out to be mass uncontrolled immigration, whereas it was controlled but with big one offs like Hong Kong and Ukraine which were invited in. Next time I'm over in Belfast if Crusaders are playing you can take me and we'll chat about it.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 28, 2022 16:58:23 GMT
The penny finally drops, for that champion of woke, Nick Ferrari, having his say in that lefty rag, the Express ... www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/nick-ferrari/1702136/immigration-system-uk-suella-braverman-morgan-freeman-qatar-nhs-comment"Ideally, anyone seeking to live or work in the UK should apply to their local embassy or consulate. Their application must include the grounds under which they believe they have the right to come here and details such as passport or the identity card for the country in which they live. Following a criminal background check, including taking fingerprints and biometric eye scans, a decision will be made within a few months. The current system, which only kicks in when someone has actually got into the country, takes 18 months to two years. If the system were to change, a successful application would see a visa processed and a passport stamped."
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Post by wannabee on Nov 28, 2022 21:01:46 GMT
Students migrating isn't a new thing though. 2001 had students. As did 2011. And so did 2021. Without sounding like a dick. It feels like you're trying to manipulate the statistics because you don't like the truth. Not at all, I'm all for keeping numbers low but the headlines make it out to be mass uncontrolled immigration, whereas it was controlled but with big one offs like Hong Kong and Ukraine which were invited in. Next time I'm over in Belfast if Crusaders are playing you can take me and we'll chat about it. You are somewhat miscounting Firstly the figures are the twelve months to 30th June 2022 The Net number was 504,000 which Paul points out do not include so called "Illegals" which was 35,000 in this 12 month period Historically 75% become "Legal " and the other 25% just hang around There were 89,000 arrived from Ukraine in this period There were 21,000 arrived from Afghanistan in this period There were about 50,000 arrived from HK in this! period. Its hard to get an exact number because they were lumped in with returning Brits (using an average number from previous years) For some reason some Media Units counted those 3 categories based on Visas Issued, I can only speculate why. The numbers I quoted are contained in the report That leaves a Net Net number of 344,000 which is a record since records began in 1964 I am ambivalent to the number The new forecasted number out to 2028 is 205,000 I have no idea how this number will be achieved given commitments in Trade Deals particularly with India on intake of Students which guarantees settlement for 3 years AFTER Graduation The problem is that Government are taking no obvious positive actions to put in place the Housing infrastructure, Doctors and Nurses training etc which just creates tension when these Services are already at Record High Levels
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Dec 3, 2022 10:09:59 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Dec 3, 2022 10:30:32 GMT
Not at all, I'm all for keeping numbers low but the headlines make it out to be mass uncontrolled immigration, whereas it was controlled but with big one offs like Hong Kong and Ukraine which were invited in. Next time I'm over in Belfast if Crusaders are playing you can take me and we'll chat about it. You are somewhat miscounting Firstly the figures are the twelve months to 30th June 2022 The Net number was 504,000 which Paul points out do not include so called "Illegals" which was 35,000 in this 12 month period Historically 75% become "Legal " and the other 25% just hang around There were 89,000 arrived from Ukraine in this period There were 21,000 arrived from Afghanistan in this period There were about 50,000 arrived from HK in this! period. Its hard to get an exact number because they were lumped in with returning Brits (using an average number from previous years) For some reason some Media Units counted those 3 categories based on Visas Issued, I can only speculate why. The numbers I quoted are contained in the report That leaves a Net Net number of 344,000 which is a record since records began in 1964 I am ambivalent to the number The new forecasted number out to 2028 is 205,000 I have no idea how this number will be achieved given commitments in Trade Deals particularly with India on intake of Students which guarantees settlement for 3 years AFTER Graduation The problem is that Government are taking no obvious positive actions to put in place the Housing infrastructure, Doctors and Nurses training etc which just creates tension when these Services are already at Record High Levels You can also add to that Education Public Transport Better pensions Prisons Policing
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Post by wannabee on Dec 13, 2022 23:50:30 GMT
It's unhelpful in this debate to use incorrect pejorative terms to describe people. There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant no matter how they entered the Country but there are Asylum Seekers requesting Refugee Status. At the core of the problem is a Home Office that has been dysfunctional for many years and operates in a state of Permacrisis without any rational plan. In a hospital medical setting a system of triage is used to allocate resources to the most urgent cases UK is not, unless under very rare circumstances, going to deport people back to Syria, Afghanistan, Iran etc so why keep spinning wheels and devote as much time to these people as of other Nationals At the earliest opportunity place these people in suitable accommodation depending on there family unit and when it comes to Unaccompanied Children ensure safeguarding protocols and educational and mental health support The current crisis is Adult Male Albanians and I agree its a problem With apologies to Badger I'm going to introduce some Stats. 86% of Albanian women and Children who present for Asylum are granted that Status so again using the fast track system assume those who present as such are going to be granted Asylum and settle in similar accommodation That leaves the remainder of Male Albanians 14% are granted Asylum Seekers and others who deliberately or unfortunately have no documentation to support who they are. In 9 Days during Covid Pandemic UK built a Nightingale Hospital (never used) capable of housing 4000 people If this type of facility was good enough to look after 4000 sick British people it should be good enough to temporarily house with modification for cooking leisure areas etc. for these people seeking Asylum while there claim is being processed Build 1 or 2 A disused Aerodrome would seem an option At the same time Home Office hire hundreds of temporary staff to be on site at these facilities to conduct and document the initial interview with prospective Asylum Seeker. Subsequently an experienced Home Office Officer can then make an follow up review. If during interview an Asylum Seeker is not being cooperative and forthcoming with information and obviously reliable translators are on hand during the Interview, to use the vernacular "Fuck them Off" The Albanian Government itself appears willing to cooperate with UK Despatch a dozen or so or whatever number required to work alongside Albanian Agencies to verify what has been said during the interview process using access to their data bases being careful not to compromise any genuine Asylum Seekers and there are some. Using this streamlined method most of the Economic Migrants can be weeded out from genuine Asylum Seekers Whether I agree or not whether UK should welcome Economic Migrants is irrelevent If the UK Government is against such a Policy its entirely within their domain The problem with Career Politicians is they have very little real world experience of agile problem solving They are too focused on the image they portray which will get them elected at the next election Taking Back Control as it currently exists is a shambles I wouldn't trust Suella Braverman to take control of a Poodle, she is seriously out of her depth and her rhetoric is dangerous Edit: By the way if anyone is under an illusion that Asylum Seekers can claim Benefits, they can't They receive £40.85 per week to cover food, clothing, toiletries etc Quelle Suprise Clever Rishi announced in HoC today his "New Plan" to deal with Albanian Boat people which is very similar to what I proposed above including cooperation with Albanian Government and alternative type accommodation other than Hotels Why this useless Government needs to precipitate a crisis before it reacts in a rational manner is beyond me. I cannot claim authorship of this Plan as a variation has successfully been used previously by Germany, France and Sweden who refused very early Albanian Immigrants by deeming by Law Albania a "Safe Country" which then does not contravene ECHR so a deportation could only potentially face a challenge in UK Courts and very unlikely to succeed The short term effect is to say to Albanian Economic Migrants, or worse, don't pay Criminals £Ks to get you to UK as you will be sent straight back. I unfortunately still have little faith in Home Office actually Administering the Policy efficiently once it becomes Law sometime in January Tangentially The Honourable Member for Stoke the Cretinous Jonathan Gullis MP has a 10 Minute Rule Bill (similar to a Private Members Bill) before the HoC tomorrow which if passed, and it actually has a chance, would make the Rwanda Crapola Legal under UK Law. It would still face challenges in ECHR with probably similar outcomes to last time The more damaging effect is that it would open up a whole can of Worms again with EU again and set back relations and trust months It would also contravene Good Friday Agreement which would piss off the US Bigly I suspect attempts may be made in the morning for this fool to stop grandstanding and he will be bought off somehow
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Post by gawa on Dec 22, 2022 23:45:57 GMT
The problem with politicians in this country is they have no real life experience. What we need is a businessman with original ideas that can make things happen like Donald trump.
We could take inspiration from his presidency. Like why don't we build a wall across the whole south of England and make Albania pay for it? Wouldn't that solve the issue and at no expense to the UK tax payer.
I suppose the only issue with that is USA Wall was on land whereas ours is on sea. So building a wall could be counter productive and prevent locals and tourists from enjoying our unique sewage laden beaches which are a huge attraction and one of our many brexit benefits.
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