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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 6, 2024 11:35:37 GMT
You'd think that for just one day they could give it a rest was the point I was making. I'm all for free speech and don't call people things like 'thick as fuck' when they exercise that right đ Why? Why doesnât freedom of speech count on one day? 𤣠Youâre anti free speech if you think âthey should give it a rest for dayâ. They can do what they want and shouldnât worry about it surely? With rights come responsibilities, my friend. If you're going to exert a right bereft of any responsibility towards others, you always run the risk of either having that right curtailed, or losing it altogether. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2024 11:42:31 GMT
Why? Why doesnât freedom of speech count on one day? 𤣠Youâre anti free speech if you think âthey should give it a rest for dayâ. They can do what they want and shouldnât worry about it surely? With rights come responsibilities, my friend. If you're going to exert a right bereft of any responsibility towards others, you always run the risk of either having that right curtailed, or losing it altogether. I absolutely agree but that isnât how the purveyors of free speech see it usually. Of course until it comes to something they donât agree with on a day that doesnât suit them. Which is my point. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 6, 2024 12:03:36 GMT
With rights come responsibilities, my friend. If you're going to exert a right bereft of any responsibility towards others, you always run the risk of either having that right curtailed, or losing it altogether. I absolutely agree but that isnât how the purveyors of free speech see it usually. Of course until it comes to something they donât agree with on a day that doesnât suit them. Which is my point. Itâs a shit point |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2024 13:14:14 GMT
I absolutely agree but that isnât how the purveyors of free speech see it usually. Of course until it comes to something they donât agree with on a day that doesnât suit them. Which is my point. Itâs a shit point Itâs not though is it. Freedom of speech is either ever present or never present. It canât be one or the other. |
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Post by Gawa on Nov 6, 2024 13:22:55 GMT
If we donât believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we donât believe in it at all.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 6, 2024 13:37:48 GMT
If we donât believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we donât believe in it at all. I'd agree. A lot of what I see on here from all sides I don't necessarily agree or disagree with particularly vehemently, and it's fine that people have the forum to say those things, I'd fight tooth and nail that they could do. What I'm more likely to dislike is the attitude or the tone of a post rather than the actual content. If someone comes across as a cunt you can forget how reasonable the message is because you've been a twat about making it. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 6, 2024 13:44:44 GMT
If we donât believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we donât believe in it at all. I see your point, but it's not strictly true. You allow freedom of expression unless and until it starts to curtail the rights and freedoms of others. For example, you have freedom of thought, but you only allow the freedom to express that thought physically unless and until it physically impacts someone else from their own freedom of thought, and their own freedom to express that thought physically without fear of consequence. |
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 6, 2024 17:09:37 GMT
You'd think that for just one day they could give it a rest was the point I was making. I'm all for free speech and don't call people things like 'thick as fuck' when they exercise that right đ Why? Why doesnât freedom of speech count on one day? 𤣠Youâre anti free speech if you think âthey should give it a rest for dayâ. They can do what they want and shouldnât worry about it surely? It's not just a normal day though is it Bayern. |
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 6, 2024 17:12:28 GMT
I absolutely agree but that isnât how the purveyors of free speech see it usually. Of course until it comes to something they donât agree with on a day that doesnât suit them. Which is my point. Itâs a shit point As are most of them he makes just lately. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2024 17:42:43 GMT
Why? Why doesnât freedom of speech count on one day? 𤣠Youâre anti free speech if you think âthey should give it a rest for dayâ. They can do what they want and shouldnât worry about it surely? It's not just a normal day though is it Bayern. Iâve been told that free speech is free speech and can be whatever wherever. Thatâs what Iâve been told on here anyway when I was saying free speech is bollocks 𤣠Like I said, you canât have it both ways. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2024 17:43:57 GMT
As are most of them he makes just lately. Youâre either for free speech and their right to March whenever or youâre not. And if youâre not then youâre either a hypocrite or you think free speech is bollocks. You cant have it both ways. |
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 6, 2024 17:43:59 GMT
It's not just a normal day though is it Bayern. Iâve been told that free speech is free speech and can be whatever wherever. Thatâs what Iâve been told on here anyway when I was saying free speech is bollocks 𤣠Like I said, you canât have it both ways. Of course they are free to do it and probably will but I just think a bit of respect should be shown on that particular day. Just my opinion. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2024 17:44:42 GMT
Iâve been told that free speech is free speech and can be whatever wherever. Thatâs what Iâve been told on here anyway when I was saying free speech is bollocks 𤣠Like I said, you canât have it both ways. Of course they are free to do it and probably will but I just think a bit of respect should be shown on that particular day. Just my opinion. I agree but I donât think for one second that itâs free speech and is quite the opposite. |
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 6, 2024 17:47:32 GMT
Of course they are free to do it and probably will but I just think a bit of respect should be shown on that particular day. Just my opinion. I agree but I donât think for one second that itâs free speech and is quite the opposite. My original point was about showing respect for the men and women who died for our freedom. There are 364 other days to protest about anything they want to but for that day I just think it's not needed. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2024 17:56:34 GMT
I agree but I donât think for one second that itâs free speech and is quite the opposite. My original point was about showing respect for the men and women who died for our freedom. There are 364 other days to protest about anything they want to but for that day I just think it's not needed. But that isnât free speech so they can do what they want. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 6, 2024 23:18:04 GMT
My original point was about showing respect for the men and women who died for our freedom. There are 364 other days to protest about anything they want to but for that day I just think it's not needed. But that isnât free speech so they can do what they want. Until someone says something they donât like. In the end itâs about respecting things that are important. Whether itâs a special day or religious ceremony. Itâs when itâs one way that the problems start. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 6, 2024 23:22:50 GMT
But that isnât free speech so they can do what they want. Until someone says something they donât like. In the end itâs about respecting things that are important. Whether itâs a special day or religious ceremony. Itâs when itâs one way that the problems start. I agree and itâs why I think free speech isnât a thing because we donât have and shouldnât have (imo) true freedom of speech. The definition used from the right means the protest is fine. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 6, 2024 23:28:16 GMT
But that isnât free speech so they can do what they want. Until someone says something they donât like. In the end itâs about respecting things that are important. Whether itâs a special day or religious ceremony. Itâs when itâs one way that the problems start. Are we talking about ANY march not taking place, or just specifically this pro-Palestine march? |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 6, 2024 23:35:00 GMT
Until someone says something they donât like. In the end itâs about respecting things that are important. Whether itâs a special day or religious ceremony. Itâs when itâs one way that the problems start. Are we talking about ANY march not taking place, or just specifically this pro-Palestine march? I donât have a problem with a march or people protesting even providing 1- itâs peaceful 2- That thereâs discretion around other events that may be taking place like Rememberance Sunday. As Boothen says thereâs 364 other days that people can protest. RS is a special day to predominantly remember those that gave their lives for their country. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 6, 2024 23:40:35 GMT
Are we talking about ANY march not taking place, or just specifically this pro-Palestine march? I donât have a problem with a march or people protesting even providing 1- itâs peaceful 2- That thereâs discretion around other events that may be taking place like Rememberance Sunday. As Boothen says thereâs 364 other days that people can protest. RS is a special day to predominantly remember those that gave their lives for their country. I don't understand point two then. You said you don't have a problem with any march as long as it's peaceful but then in the very next sentence, bang on about there being 364 other days in the year to hold it. That sounds like actually you DO have a problem with the march taking place on Sunday. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 6, 2024 23:50:03 GMT
I donât have a problem with a march or people protesting even providing 1- itâs peaceful 2- That thereâs discretion around other events that may be taking place like Rememberance Sunday. As Boothen says thereâs 364 other days that people can protest. RS is a special day to predominantly remember those that gave their lives for their country. I don't understand point two then. You said you don't have a problem with any march as long as it's peaceful but then in the very next sentence, bang on about there been 364 other days in the year to hold it. That sounds like actually you DO have a problem with the march taking place on Sunday. Paul without getting into some long drawn out discussion thereâs always a bit of grey and nothings entirely black and white. Iâm just saying sometimes out of consideration for others itâs nice to let those attending RS events remember there fellow countrymen/women that gave their lives in the great wars without the peace being disrupted by people marching and chanting. If that makes me wrong and a hypocrite Iâll take it on the chin. You win  |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 7, 2024 0:13:29 GMT
I don't understand point two then. You said you don't have a problem with any march as long as it's peaceful but then in the very next sentence, bang on about there been 364 other days in the year to hold it. That sounds like actually you DO have a problem with the march taking place on Sunday. Paul without getting into some long drawn out discussion thereâs always a bit of grey and nothings entirely black and white. Iâm just saying sometimes out of consideration for others itâs nice to let those attending RS events remember there fellow countrymen/women that gave their lives in the great wars without the peace being disrupted by people marching and chanting. If that makes me wrong and a hypocrite Iâll take it on the chin. You win I havenât remotely suggested that you are wrong or a hypocrite, thats something youve just introduced based on absolutely nothing. I've simply asked you what you actually mean by what you've said. It wouldn't have to be drawn out, if you could actually explain what that is, rather than deliberately electing to avoid doing so. I posted a simple 15 word single sentence and yet here we are 5 posts later, non the wiser. So I'll ask again, are you talking about ANY march or just specifically this pro-Palestine march? It's not a difficult question to answer and it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 7, 2024 7:45:21 GMT
Paul without getting into some long drawn out discussion thereâs always a bit of grey and nothings entirely black and white. Iâm just saying sometimes out of consideration for others itâs nice to let those attending RS events remember there fellow countrymen/women that gave their lives in the great wars without the peace being disrupted by people marching and chanting. If that makes me wrong and a hypocrite Iâll take it on the chin. You win I havenât remotely suggested that you are wrong or a hypocrite, thats something youve just introduced based on absolutely nothing. I've simply asked you what you actually mean by what you've said. It wouldn't have to be drawn out, if you could actually explain what that is, rather than deliberately electing to avoid doing so. I posted a simple 15 word single sentence and yet here we are 5 posts later, non the wiser. So I'll ask again, are you talking about ANY march or just specifically this pro-Palestine march? It's not a difficult question to answer and it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask. Ok Paul without getting into a long drawn out discussion like I said I wouldnât. Do I have a problem with people marching / protesting - ânoâ providing theyâre peaceful and donât impact on peopleâs lives eg preventing them from receiving medical care. Though I have to say they have a limited shelf life when those doing it ask themselves âwhat are we achievingâ and âwhat are we looking to achieve.â Do I agree with the reason for all marches. âNoâ thereâs plenty I donât. Do I agree with the atrocities in Palestine? Of course not. Do I agree with the protests on Rememberance Sunday when people are trying to remember those that gave their lives for the UK in peace? âNoâ especially when they protest pretty much every other weekend in the year. If those protesting took this weekend off I think theyâd get a lot of respect and support for the cause theyâre marching for. Would I be pissed off if I was remembering a lost one or in the minutes silence if I could hear chanting in the background? Yes What are your thoughts re the Palestine protests? Do you think theyâre actually achieving anything now? Have they lost there impact because theyâre accepted as the norm so they donât have any impact any more. |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 7, 2024 10:33:28 GMT
I havenât remotely suggested that you are wrong or a hypocrite, thats something youve just introduced based on absolutely nothing. I've simply asked you what you actually mean by what you've said. It wouldn't have to be drawn out, if you could actually explain what that is, rather than deliberately electing to avoid doing so. I posted a simple 15 word single sentence and yet here we are 5 posts later, non the wiser. So I'll ask again, are you talking about ANY march or just specifically this pro-Palestine march? It's not a difficult question to answer and it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask. Ok Paul without getting into a long drawn out discussion like I said I wouldnât. Do I have a problem with people marching / protesting - ânoâ providing theyâre peaceful and donât impact on peopleâs lives eg preventing them from receiving medical care. Though I have to say they have a limited shelf life when those doing it ask themselves âwhat are we achievingâ and âwhat are we looking to achieve.â Do I agree with the reason for all marches. âNoâ thereâs plenty I donât. Do I agree with the atrocities in Palestine? Of course not. Do I agree with the protests on Rememberance Sunday when people are trying to remember those that gave their lives for the UK in peace? âNoâ especially when they protest pretty much every other weekend in the year. If those protesting took this weekend off I think theyâd get a lot of respect and support for the cause theyâre marching for. Would I be pissed off if I was remembering a lost one or in the minutes silence if I could hear chanting in the background? Yes What are your thoughts re the Palestine protests? Do you think theyâre actually achieving anything now? Have they lost there impact because theyâre accepted as the norm so they donât have any impact any more. Remembrance Day was originally called Armistice Day meaning a day to commemorate the end of the War, a truce in others words. It was only renamed Remembrance Day when "the war to end all wars" didn't . It was moved to a Sunday ironically so as not to interfere with munitions production leading up to WW11. In France and Belgium it is still a National Holiday but not UK because I guess it would interfere with whatever people are doing on that day. I can't think of a more appropriate day to call for an end to the carnage in Gaza .... respectfully |
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Post by phileetin on Nov 7, 2024 10:34:10 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Nov 7, 2024 12:00:04 GMT
I don't understand point two then. You said you don't have a problem with any march as long as it's peaceful but then in the very next sentence, bang on about there been 364 other days in the year to hold it. That sounds like actually you DO have a problem with the march taking place on Sunday. Paul without getting into some long drawn out discussion thereâs always a bit of grey and nothings entirely black and white. Iâm just saying sometimes out of consideration for others itâs nice to let those attending RS events remember there fellow countrymen/women that gave their lives in the great wars without the peace being disrupted by people marching and chanting. If that makes me wrong and a hypocrite Iâll take it on the chin. You win id disagree - as long as its peaceful etc etc. however when you express that right without making concessions and respect for other events your message gets lost anyway. If they march sunday you know its because of the date. a march the following sunday would get more press coverage |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 7, 2024 14:19:26 GMT
I havenât remotely suggested that you are wrong or a hypocrite, thats something youve just introduced based on absolutely nothing. I've simply asked you what you actually mean by what you've said. It wouldn't have to be drawn out, if you could actually explain what that is, rather than deliberately electing to avoid doing so. I posted a simple 15 word single sentence and yet here we are 5 posts later, non the wiser. So I'll ask again, are you talking about ANY march or just specifically this pro-Palestine march? It's not a difficult question to answer and it's a perfectly legitimate question to ask. Ok Paul without getting into a long drawn out discussion like I said I wouldnât. Do I have a problem with people marching / protesting - ânoâ providing theyâre peaceful and donât impact on peopleâs lives eg preventing them from receiving medical care. Though I have to say they have a limited shelf life when those doing it ask themselves âwhat are we achievingâ and âwhat are we looking to achieve.â Do I agree with the reason for all marches. âNoâ thereâs plenty I donât. Do I agree with the atrocities in Palestine? Of course not. Do I agree with the protests on Rememberance Sunday when people are trying to remember those that gave their lives for the UK in peace? âNoâ especially when they protest pretty much every other weekend in the year. If those protesting took this weekend off I think theyâd get a lot of respect and support for the cause theyâre marching for. Would I be pissed off if I was remembering a lost one or in the minutes silence if I could hear chanting in the background? Yes What are your thoughts re the Palestine protests? Do you think theyâre actually achieving anything now? Have they lost there impact because theyâre accepted as the norm so they donât have any impact any more. I'm still unclear what your answer to the question is, as it again appears to be wrapped up in obfuscation. So my reply (which was going to be based on which answer you gave) will now have to be longer than I was originally hoping for. If your contention is that the pro-Palestine march specifically shouldn't be taking place because it is in some way disrespectful on Remberance Sunday, then I need to understand WHY you are linking the two entirely separate events and what makes one specifically disrespectful to the other? However, if your belief is that ALL marches should be banned on RS because they are disrespectful, then I'd suggest you should consider WHY the allies fought WW2. That being, to defeat Nazi occupation and the spread of Fascism, ultimately meaning that the likes of you and I, can live today as free citizens, with freedom of expression being at the very heart of our democratic rights. I know for certain, that my Grandfather would have been absolutely horrified, if, after all the sacrifices that he and his colleagues gave, that right was in someway curtailed on the very day that we remember their sacrifices, indeed curtailed directly BECAUSE of the Remberance, he'd be utterly appalled by that. In answer to your question, I think they are absolutely vital. In the last year, we've seen massive shifts in the positions of government's in France, Spain, Italy, Norway and Ireland amongst others and those shifts can be shown to be directly attributable to the citizens of those countries making clear, that they will not accept the actions of their government's in their name. Indeed, public opinion in the West, is the only chance that the Palestinian people now have left. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 7, 2024 15:22:20 GMT
Where white men can go to grab them by the pussy you mean? Or do the Weinstein? Or Saville? |
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Nov 7, 2024 15:40:28 GMT
Paul without getting into some long drawn out discussion thereâs always a bit of grey and nothings entirely black and white. Iâm just saying sometimes out of consideration for others itâs nice to let those attending RS events remember there fellow countrymen/women that gave their lives in the great wars without the peace being disrupted by people marching and chanting. If that makes me wrong and a hypocrite Iâll take it on the chin. You win id disagree - as long as its peaceful etc etc. however when you express that right without making concessions and respect for other events your message gets lost anyway. If they march sunday you know its because of the date. a march the following sunday would get more press coverage I think last year it was poignant given the proximity to the Hamas terror attack and the demonstrations that had gone before it but this year it is nothing more than aggregation. |
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Post by salopstick on Nov 7, 2024 15:42:26 GMT
id disagree - as long as its peaceful etc etc. however when you express that right without making concessions and respect for other events your message gets lost anyway. If they march sunday you know its because of the date. a march the following sunday would get more press coverage I think last year it was poignant given the proximity to the Hamas terror attack and the demonstrations that had gone before it but this year it is nothing more than aggregation. dont rise to it |
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