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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 29, 2024 22:53:07 GMT
It does sound like the facts were withheld from the British public for 4 months. It took less than 2 days for them to assure us he was not an asylum seeker rather a down home Welsh boy who'd just moved to Southport. So why sit on this for 4 months. The reason details were revealed about him being born in Wales very soon after was to try and calm the rioters from smashing up our towns and cities. Quite reasonable to try to stop more people being harmed and livelihoods destroyed. The police don’t need to explain anything. They have done a great job which has led to further serious charges being brought against this scum. He will serve longer behind bars, perhaps never getting out, partly because of the investigation which has led to these charges. |
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Post by Gods on Oct 29, 2024 22:59:18 GMT
It does sound like the facts were withheld from the British public for 4 months. It took less than 2 days for them to assure us he was not an asylum seeker rather a down home Welsh boy who'd just moved to Southport. So why sit on this for 4 months. The reason details were revealed about him being born in Wales very soon after was to try and calm the rioters from smashing up our towns and cities. Quite reasonable to try to stop more people being harmed and livelihoods destroyed. The police don’t need to explain anything. They have done a great job which has led to further serious charges being brought against this scum. He will serve longer behind bars, perhaps never getting out, partly because of the investigation which has led to these charges. I'm not convinced by this flannel. The public have been hood winked for 4 months. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 29, 2024 23:35:09 GMT
The problem is people being radicalised online. Not immigration. The guy was born in Wales! He was not a jihadi who moved here! Another British born terrorist. Oggy, the point is mass immigration is increasing the chances of this happening more frequently. If the first generation keep their noses clean then the second generation might not. Reducing it reduces the risk That’s counterintuitive. The relationship between mass immigration and radicalisation is complicated but there is little evidence to suggest that more migration unconditionally leads to more terrorist activity, especially in Western countries. It’s factors such as overcrowding, poverty, and local crime which contribute to feelings of alienation, which then can increase the risk of radicalisation. The chances of refugees becoming radicalised is very low. The chances of refugees being blamed and victimised for overcrowding, poverty, and local crime by white right wing natives is extremely high. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 29, 2024 23:39:28 GMT
The reason details were revealed about him being born in Wales very soon after was to try and calm the rioters from smashing up our towns and cities. Quite reasonable to try to stop more people being harmed and livelihoods destroyed. The police don’t need to explain anything. They have done a great job which has led to further serious charges being brought against this scum. He will serve longer behind bars, perhaps never getting out, partly because of the investigation which has led to these charges. I'm not convinced by this flannel. The public have been hood winked for 4 months. So let's assume that you are correct and the police did find out that he was in possession of terrorist material pretty early on. At what point do you think they should have released this information to the public? Bear in mind, that at the time, rioters were attempting to burn down hotels housing asylum seekers, their ire predicated on the (wrong) belief that the perp was an illegal immigrant. Are you suggesting that the police should have immediately tossed this piece of highly inflammable information onto a raging bonfire, that at the time, was already out of control? To achieve what, exactly? |
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Post by Tom_stokiepmre89 on Oct 30, 2024 0:20:48 GMT
I'm not convinced by this flannel. The public have been hood winked for 4 months. So let's assume that you are correct and the police did find out that he was in possession of terrorist material pretty early on. At what point do you think they should have released this information to the public? Bear in mind, that at the time, rioters were attempting to burn down hotels housing asylum seekers, their ire predicated on the (wrong) belief that the perp was an illegal immigrant. Are you suggesting that the police should have immediately tossed this piece of highly inflammable information onto a raging bonfire, that at the time, was already out of control? To achieve what, exactly? The question I’m asking is, “how have we found ourselves in a situation where state sponsored gaslighting and political persecution are logical short-term solutions to prevent civil war?”. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 30, 2024 0:39:59 GMT
So let's assume that you are correct and the police did find out that he was in possession of terrorist material pretty early on. At what point do you think they should have released this information to the public? Bear in mind, that at the time, rioters were attempting to burn down hotels housing asylum seekers, their ire predicated on the (wrong) belief that the perp was an illegal immigrant. Are you suggesting that the police should have immediately tossed this piece of highly inflammable information onto a raging bonfire, that at the time, was already out of control? To achieve what, exactly? The question I’m asking is, “how have we found ourselves in a situation where state sponsored gaslighting and political persecution are logical short-term solutions to prevent civil war?”. I think the premise of your question is utterly absurd. Where is the state sponsored gaslighting? What 'political persecutions' are you referring to? Short-term solutions to prevent which civil war? |
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Post by knype on Oct 30, 2024 4:52:31 GMT
The left on here showing their true colours yet again! Lots on here were right, the lefties backed the wrong ones yet again!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 30, 2024 5:14:56 GMT
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Post by mrnovember on Oct 30, 2024 6:24:20 GMT
"The Jihad manual that would be useful for those preparing or carrying out an act of terrorism is not sufficient to establish motivation for this act of terrorism." |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 30, 2024 6:54:10 GMT
The reason details were revealed about him being born in Wales very soon after was to try and calm the rioters from smashing up our towns and cities. Quite reasonable to try to stop more people being harmed and livelihoods destroyed. The police don’t need to explain anything. They have done a great job which has led to further serious charges being brought against this scum. He will serve longer behind bars, perhaps never getting out, partly because of the investigation which has led to these charges. I'm not convinced by this flannel. The public have been hood winked for 4 months. In what way? What about? Name other high profile investigations by the police where they have kept us up to speed throughout? Just let the police do their job. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 30, 2024 6:56:58 GMT
The question I’m asking is, “how have we found ourselves in a situation where state sponsored gaslighting and political persecution are logical short-term solutions to prevent civil war?”. I think the premise of your question is utterly absurd. Where is the state sponsored gaslighting? What 'political persecutions' are you referring to? Short-term solutions to prevent which civil war? Not once has anyone who is incensed by this new charge being made public said who has “lied”, or “hoodwinked” or “gaslit” them. Apparently they are mad because he isn’t a Christian. Of course he wasn’t a Christian. Do real Christians murder children!? |
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Post by starkiller on Oct 30, 2024 6:58:05 GMT
I'm not convinced by this flannel. The public have been hood winked for 4 months. In what way? What about? Name other high profile investigations by the police where they have kept us up to speed throughout? Just let the police do their job. I'm not sure the issue is keeping us up to speed, but deliberately getting the media to put out misleading information to divert from the truth. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 30, 2024 7:08:00 GMT
In what way? What about? Name other high profile investigations by the police where they have kept us up to speed throughout? Just let the police do their job. I'm not sure the issue is keeping us up to speed, but deliberately getting the media to put out misleading information to divert from the truth. Ok. Provide some evidence of that. Everyone is sayingthey were misled. Show me what about? Where is the interview from the senior police officers involved saying “this man is a Christian” or “this man is not a terrorist “. Where is this misleading information? Don’t accuse some unknown person or group of people of misleading you without saying what about and providing evidence of where they have misled you. I never thought this guy categorically could not be a terrorist. I never thought this guy was definitely Christian. I knew he was born in Wales to parents from Rwanda, a predominantly Christian nation, but that obviously did not make me think “this guy is definitely Christian”. |
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Post by stoke111 on Oct 30, 2024 7:10:23 GMT
“Let the police do their job”
This time last week the police were getting flack about the way they did their job, now we’re told to trust them they’re do a fine job. Changes like the weather 😂
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 30, 2024 7:15:05 GMT
“Let the police do their job” This time last week the police were getting flack about the way they did their job, now we’re told to trust them they’re do a fine job. Changes like the weather 😂 So in your opinion, the police should provide constant updates about all their criminal investigations, and if a police officer does something that may be wrong (rape, murder, anything) they should be above the law and never investigated themselves? |
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Post by starkiller on Oct 30, 2024 7:16:08 GMT
I'm not sure the issue is keeping us up to speed, but deliberately getting the media to put out misleading information to divert from the truth. Ok. Provide some evidence of that. Everyone is sayingthey were misled. Show me what about? Where is the interview from the senior police officers involved saying “this man is a Christian” or “this man is not a terrorist “. Where is this misleading information? Don’t accuse some unknown person or group of people of misleading you without saying what about and providing evidence of where they have misled you. I never thought this guy categorically could not be a terrorist. I never thought this guy was definitely Christian. I knew he was born in Wales to parents from Rwanda, a predominantly Christian nation, but that obviously did not make me think “this guy is definitely Christian”. I'm not saying the police did. But information came from somewhere that news reports ran with. If they didn't have that information conclusively, why run with it? Just say nothing. You can find these reports yourself. Anyway, we await the swift arrests and justice for 'misinformation' which made Christians a potential target for 'hate'. |
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Post by Gods on Oct 30, 2024 7:19:48 GMT
I'm not convinced by this flannel. The public have been hood winked for 4 months. In what way? What about? Name other high profile investigations by the police where they have kept us up to speed throughout? Just let the police do their job. This same case. The went out on a limb very early on breaking all protocol to tell the public to stop protesting since he's a Welsh boy and its not what you think. And that was true. But it seems that was only half the story. They've sat on the rest for a greater convenience it seems. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 30, 2024 7:22:06 GMT
Ok. Provide some evidence of that. Everyone is sayingthey were misled. Show me what about? Where is the interview from the senior police officers involved saying “this man is a Christian” or “this man is not a terrorist “. Where is this misleading information? Don’t accuse some unknown person or group of people of misleading you without saying what about and providing evidence of where they have misled you. I never thought this guy categorically could not be a terrorist. I never thought this guy was definitely Christian. I knew he was born in Wales to parents from Rwanda, a predominantly Christian nation, but that obviously did not make me think “this guy is definitely Christian”. I'm not saying the police did. But information came from somewhere that news reports ran with. If they didn't have that information conclusively, why run with it? Just say nothing. You can find these reports yourself. Anyway, we await the swift arrests and justice for 'misinformation' which made Christians a potential target for 'hate'. I can’t find any of these reports or interviews either. Nobody was misled. The police shouldn’t jeopardise on going investigations by sharing all their information with the public in case some sensitive souls may get upset about it coming out later. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 30, 2024 7:23:06 GMT
In what way? What about? Name other high profile investigations by the police where they have kept us up to speed throughout? Just let the police do their job. This same case. The went out on a limb very early on breaking all protocol to tell the public to stop protesting since he's a Welsh boy and its not what you think. And that was true. But it seems that was only half the story. They've sat on the rest for a greater convenience it seems. Yes, rightly so. They helped stop fucking idiots smashing up local businesses and communities and harming people. The police did their job. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 30, 2024 7:31:20 GMT
"We have worked extensively with partners to establish that there was a low to very low risk to the public – and I want to make that reassurance clear today. I can also tell you that there was no ricin present at Hart Street.“When the ricin was discovered, all necessary steps were taken so we could be sure that no one was at risk. This was a multi-agency response. Expert advice, and guidance was received and adhered to throughout the investigation. “In the following days Merseyside Police worked closely with partners including: Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service (MFRS); North West Ambulance Service (NWAS); Sefton Council; Lancashire Police; West Lancashire Borough Council; Counter Terrorism Policing North West (CTPNW); Counter Terrorism Policing (CTP); UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA); Crown Prosecution Service (CPS); NHS England; National CBRN Centre; Defence, Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl), and the Ministry of Defence to identify if there was any risk to victims, local communities, or the specialist professionals in attendance at Hart Street and Old School Close.
“At this point it is particularly appropriate to recognise the support we have received from the emergency services, the local authority, and Counter Terrorism Policing. That support has included forensics experts and digital investigators. This was in place from the initial stages of the investigation and remains ongoing.
“I want to reassure our communities that we continue to work in partnership with all our partners and are absolutely committed to keeping our communities safe.
“At this time, Counter Terrorism Policing has not declared the attack on Monday 29 July a terrorist incident. I recognise that the new charges, may lead to speculation. The matter for which Axel Rudakubana has been charged with under the Terrorism Act does not require motive to be established. For a matter to be declared a terrorist incident, motivation would need to be established."Presumably, if those on the right want to peddle the narrative that the police were deliberately keeping things from them, then they also need to accept that they are in actual fact asking the Police to prejudice any trial and allow the very people they claim to be against to perpetrate their crimes safe in the knowledge that the people who claim to be against them, are in actual fact wanting them to get off with it. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 30, 2024 7:39:16 GMT
“Let the police do their job” This time last week the police were getting flack about the way they did their job, now we’re told to trust them they’re do a fine job. Changes like the weather 😂 So in your opinion, the police should provide constant updates about all their criminal investigations, and if a police officer does something that may be wrong (rape, murder, anything) they should be above the law and never investigated themselves? I don’t think he’s saying that. But let’s be frank there’s a lot of media bias around them at the moment and that’s part of the problem as are a number of politicians who clearly have an agenda against them. In the case of the Met one is their own crime Commissioner. The police should never be above the law but they do deserve a fair crack of the whip which in my opinion they don’t get unless it’s to prove a political point which in some cases they go to far the other way. There’s some on here who always want to hammer the police yet if it’s an argument around the policing around imigrants or Palestinian protests they’re the best thing since sliced bread. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 30, 2024 7:57:49 GMT
So let's assume that you are correct and the police did find out that he was in possession of terrorist material pretty early on. At what point do you think they should have released this information to the public? Bear in mind, that at the time, rioters were attempting to burn down hotels housing asylum seekers, their ire predicated on the (wrong) belief that the perp was an illegal immigrant. Are you suggesting that the police should have immediately tossed this piece of highly inflammable information onto a raging bonfire, that at the time, was already out of control? To achieve what, exactly? The question I’m asking is, “how have we found ourselves in a situation where state sponsored gaslighting and political persecution are logical short-term solutions to prevent civil war?”. I see where you're coming from to be honest. Deep divisions within societies can lead to extreme measures by governments to maintain control and prevent dissent from escalating into violence. When you add that to the fact that democratic institutions and processes are weakening, governments then resort to repressive tactics to suppress opposition and maintain power. Ultimately, it's the fear of instability and perceived weakness: governments justify repressive measures such as gaslighting and persecution as necessary to prevent chaos and maintain order, especially in times of crisis or perceived threats. Historic cases of state repression and political violence create a cycle where such measures are seen as effective tools for maintaining control. That all mixes together to create an environment where repressive tactics are rationalised as necessary for short-term stability, even at the cost of long-term democratic principles and human rights. Naturally, it doesn't excuse those from either political extreme (far right and far left) from perpetrating nonsense and propaganda as this just adds to it. Logic comes from a sense of love and perspective. We all metaphorically wrestle with each other on here (some more than others - sorry Paul Spencer - it's meant in jest) but none of us (I think) try to gaslight or inadvertently promote violence against any member of the group. The clearest way of demonstrating what you're talking about would be if gaslighting and violence were allowed on here. Heaven forbid. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 30, 2024 8:06:11 GMT
So in your opinion, the police should provide constant updates about all their criminal investigations, and if a police officer does something that may be wrong (rape, murder, anything) they should be above the law and never investigated themselves? I don’t think he’s saying that. But let’s be frank there’s a lot of media bias around them at the moment and that’s part of the problem as are a number of politicians who clearly have an agenda against them. In the case of the Met one is their own crime Commissioner. The police should never be above the law but they do deserve a fair crack of the whip which in my opinion they don’t get unless it’s to prove a political point which in some cases they go to far the other way. There’s some on here who always want to hammer the police yet if it’s an argument around the policing around imigrants or Palestinian protests they’re the best thing since sliced bread. I agree. The police officer was exonerated. He shouldn’t have been named. The problem is you have the people on here upset that the police have somehow misled them. They are the same ones that wanted that officer in the met to not be prosecuted. Do they wantthe police to be able to do their job or not? The charges brought against this terrorist scum may not have been possible with regular police updates. The police have done a brilliant job on this case (yet again) so why are they under fire from the same people who sympathised with the rioters who also wasted loads of police resources by smashing up local communities because they wrongly thought an immigrant had murdered those poor children. The hypocrisy is staggering. |
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Post by riverman on Oct 30, 2024 8:09:40 GMT
I'm not convinced by this flannel. The public have been hood winked for 4 months. So let's assume that you are correct and the police did find out that he was in possession of terrorist material pretty early on. At what point do you think they should have released this information to the public? Bear in mind, that at the time, rioters were attempting to burn down hotels housing asylum seekers, their ire predicated on the (wrong) belief that the perp was an illegal immigrant. Are you suggesting that the police should have immediately tossed this piece of highly inflammable information onto a raging bonfire, that at the time, was already out of control? To achieve what, exactly? I think they should have waited until just before there was a major news item they could bury it under. Like a rather inflammatory budget speech or something...oh, hang on a min.🤔 |
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Post by emretezzy on Oct 30, 2024 8:11:06 GMT
I'm not saying the police did. But information came from somewhere that news reports ran with. If they didn't have that information conclusively, why run with it? Just say nothing. You can find these reports yourself. Anyway, we await the swift arrests and justice for 'misinformation' which made Christians a potential target for 'hate'. I can’t find any of these reports or interviews either. Nobody was misled. The police shouldn’t jeopardise on going investigations by sharing all their information with the public in case some sensitive souls may get upset about it coming out later. The first article I've come across. As well as yesterday still using photos of an innocent little boy In this article alone... 'A quiet boy who is clingy to his mum.' 'No problems a friendly couple with two little boys." “heavily involved with the local church”, they would often hear singing from their house. Rudakubana has a background in musical theatre. Try as they might to paint this lovely little lad a Christian Altar boy. Turns out he's cooking Ricin and reading Al Qaeda manuals. |
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Post by starkiller on Oct 30, 2024 8:12:33 GMT
This same case. The went out on a limb very early on breaking all protocol to tell the public to stop protesting since he's a Welsh boy and its not what you think. And that was true. But it seems that was only half the story. They've sat on the rest for a greater convenience it seems. Yes, rightly so. They helped stop fucking idiots smashing up local businesses and communities and harming people. The police did their job. You mean like the riots in Leeds a few days earlier? Now swept under the carpet. And no mugshots on front pages. What would have helped quell further riots would be an actual PM taking the concerns of the public seriously. This is not to condone or justify any riots, but the concerns remain unaddressed, regardless. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 30, 2024 8:14:28 GMT
Yes, rightly so. They helped stop fucking idiots smashing up local businesses and communities and harming people. The police did their job. You mean like the riots in Leeds a few days earlier? Now swept under the carpet. And no mugshots on front pages. What would have helped quell further riots would be an actual PM taking the concerns of the public seriously. This is not to condone or justify any riots, but the concerns remain unaddressed, regardless. SK, Musik and Old Stokie are the voices of reason on this board. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 30, 2024 8:34:10 GMT
I can’t find any of these reports or interviews either. Nobody was misled. The police shouldn’t jeopardise on going investigations by sharing all their information with the public in case some sensitive souls may get upset about it coming out later. The first article I've come across. As well as yesterday still using photos of an innocent little boy In this article alone... 'A quiet boy who is clingy to his mum.' 'No problems a friendly couple with two little boys." “heavily involved with the local church”, they would often hear singing from their house. Rudakubana has a background in musical theatre. Try as they might to paint this lovely little lad a Christian Altar boy. Turns out he's cooking Ricin and reading Al Qaeda manuals. So you are unhappy at the neighbours of the family for the way they described them in this interview? What has the state or the media done to gaslight you? They have interviewed neighbours and used their quotes that’s all. It is standard journalism. I imagine he kept his ricin making unknown to his neighbours. Terrorists don’t walk around with a sign on their head saying “I am a terrorist “. They hide in plain sight. So, again, how have you been misled? |
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Post by emretezzy on Oct 30, 2024 8:37:27 GMT
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/southport-dad-banks-cardiff-welsh-b2589545.htmlThe first article I've come across. As well as yesterday still using photos of an innocent little boy In this article alone... 'A quiet boy who is clingy to his mum.' 'No problems a friendly couple with two little boys." “heavily involved with the local church”, they would often hear singing from their house. Rudakubana has a background in musical theatre. Try as they might to paint this lovely little lad a Christian Altar boy. Turns out he's cooking Ricin and reading Al Qaeda manuals. So you are unhappy at the neighbours of the family for the way they described them in this interview? What has the state or the media done to gaslight you? They have interviewed neighbours and used their quotes that’s all. It is standard journalism. I imagine he kept his ricin making unknown to his neighbours. Terrorists don’t walk around with a sign on their head saying “I am a terrorist “. They hide in plain sight. So, again, how have you been misled? So you've been proven wrong... again. Just admit you make a mistake Oggy now and again. You asked for links. I duly obliged. I know you deep down want to say sorry. I'll accept it. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Oct 30, 2024 8:42:02 GMT
Yes, rightly so. They helped stop fucking idiots smashing up local businesses and communities and harming people. The police did their job. You mean like the riots in Leeds a few days earlier? Now swept under the carpet. And no mugshots on front pages. What would have helped quell further riots would be an actual PM taking the concerns of the public seriously. This is not to condone or justify any riots, but the concerns remain unaddressed, regardless. The PM dealt with the riots well and quelled them reasonably quickly by pouring resources into preventing them. What has happened is a young man murdered 3 children. Right wing influencers were wrong when they said he was an immigrant. Idiots then started rioting against their local communities and businesses. It was correctly announced that he was born in Wales to Rwandan parents. The riots calmed down after a few days. Now people are annoyed they weren’t told sooner he was involved in terrorist activities, claiming they were misled. The evidence shows they weren’t misled. The murderer was born in Wales. He isn’t an immigrant, and this story only relates to immigrants because right wing thugs blame all their problems and failures on foreigners as an easy target to distract from their failures in life. |
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