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Post by dutchstokie on Oct 18, 2024 7:46:32 GMT
The Dutch are considering Uganda to be used as a hub for 'failed asylum seekrs' Its big news over here on the news channels BUT the arguments around it are focused towards the lack of progress with the UK version. Will that happen over here....? And at what cost...?....and how would it be structured...? Lets face it, the UK has spaffed millions up the wall on this Rwanda debacle and the Dutch people will not tolerate that sort of wastage. www.dutchnews.nl/2024/10/government-to-probe-plan-to-send-failed-asylum-seekers-to-uganda/ |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 18, 2024 8:25:10 GMT
That’s a hugely disingenuous statistic. I'm not even going to bother to check what it is You’re conflating economic immigrants with refugees and asylum seekers. Neither are illegal, but they aren’t the same thing in the UK and only one group is able to seek full employment and thus become self-sufficient. This is not correct, an Asylum Seeker is seeking Refuge and if their claim is examined and found to have a basis they are granted Refugee Status which gives them "leave to remain" in UK for 5 years until they can apply for settled status. An Economic Migrant has no Internationally recognised claim to seek Refugee Status but depending on the Country they originated e.g. Afghanistan they will not be returned but given "leave to remain"Once a refugee or asylum seeker is granted indefinite leave to remain they become an economic immigrant. Absolutely not, an Asylum Seeker if granted gains Refugee Status and protection but they are never Economic Migrants and may in fact be financially independent. An Economic Migrant has no legal claim to be granted Refugee Status but may be granted leave to remain depending on whether they have come from a Country that is deemed safe or not i.e. eligible to be returned to.Refugees and asylum seekers by their very nature cannot be economically self-sufficient in the UK. Some Asylum Seekers may become Refugees if their claim is successful, they may have independent means to be self-sufficient In the UK the Home Office may grant permission to work to asylum seekers whose claim has been outstanding for more than 12 months through no fault of their own. Those who are granted permission to work and have submitted an application on or before 3 April 2024 are restricted to jobs on the Shortage Occupation List published by the Home Office. Any applications submitted on or after 4 April 2024, who are granted, are restricted to jobs on the Immigration Salary List. Almost all refugees and asylum seekers in the UK are encouraged to volunteer, not paid employment. Taken directly from Government Website so correct but it only tells half the story
Asylum Seekers who are granted Refugee Status or de facto leave to remain because they can not be returned to an unsafe Country have unrestricted access to the UK Labour Market I only came across your post when Musik quoted it and it is highly inaccurate and misleading To be honest, I stopped reading the moment you said " I'm not even going to bother checking what it is". So I'll just say that Musik and I were agreeing that the statistical definitions between the two countries can be misleading. What Musik said was pretty spot on, I felt. I could go into the question of “economic migrants” versus “refugees”, particularly as the UNHCR has openly stated that the distinction is often blurred and nuanced. The UNHCR (UNHCR Handbook on Procedures and Guidelines for RSD) says that asylum seekers can have predominantly economic motives for departure and claiming asylum in a third country which may be intertwined with a political element. Granted, I should have employed the word "may" when stating that asylum seekers become economic migrants. But as I said, I stopped reading. |
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Post by wannabee on Oct 18, 2024 8:58:38 GMT
I only came across your post when Musik quoted it and it is highly inaccurate and misleading To be honest, I stopped reading the moment you said " I'm not even going to bother checking what it is". So I'll just say that Musik and I were agreeing that the statistical definitions between the two countries can be misleading. What Musik said was pretty spot on, I felt. I could go into the question of “economic migrants” versus “refugees”, particularly as the UNHCR has openly stated that the distinction is often blurred and nuanced. The UNHCR (UNHCR Handbook on Procedures and Guidelines for RSD) says that asylum seekers can have predominantly economic motives for departure and claiming asylum in a third country which may be intertwined with a political element. Granted, I should have employed the word "may" when stating that asylum seekers become economic migrants. But as I said, I stopped reading. Something else for you to not read although others may want to have a correct definition and not be misled by your previous post Who is an economic migrant?An economic migrant is different from a refugee or asylum seeker – this is someone who leaves his or her country of origin purely for financial or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to move in order to find a better life and they do not flee because of persecution. There is no such thing as “economic asylum” – therefore, they do not fall within the criteria for refugee status and are not entitled to receive international protection. www.globalrefuge.org/news/refugees-asylum-seekers-migrants-whats-the-difference-lirs/ |
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Post by musik on Oct 18, 2024 10:57:16 GMT
What I didn't quite get from the interview yesterday on Swedish tv is why the boss of our authority Migrations-verket said economic migrants aren't welcome.
Did she make the assumption they plan to travel to us to ONLY live on social benefits?
In my world you can both seek a job in another country to increase your own financial possibilites, get a better life
AND
help the country you've come to, with knowledge, expertise and paying the taxes.
Way back my relatives did, when they went to America, when the harvest became bad here.
As the neutral observer I am at the politicians on the whole scale, I must say everyone is trying to say things are either black or white. Usually they aren't.
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Post by musik on Oct 18, 2024 11:11:42 GMT
To be honest, I stopped reading the moment you said " I'm not even going to bother checking what it is". So I'll just say that Musik and I were agreeing that the statistical definitions between the two countries can be misleading. What Musik said was pretty spot on, I felt. I could go into the question of “economic migrants” versus “refugees”, particularly as the UNHCR has openly stated that the distinction is often blurred and nuanced. The UNHCR (UNHCR Handbook on Procedures and Guidelines for RSD) says that asylum seekers can have predominantly economic motives for departure and claiming asylum in a third country which may be intertwined with a political element. Granted, I should have employed the word "may" when stating that asylum seekers become economic migrants. But as I said, I stopped reading. Something else for you to not read although others may want to have a correct definition and not be misled by your previous post Who is an economic migrant?An economic migrant is different from a refugee or asylum seeker – this is someone who leaves his or her country of origin purely for financial or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to move in order to find a better life and they do not flee because of persecution. There is no such thing as “economic asylum” – therefore, they do not fall within the criteria for refugee status and are not entitled to receive international protection. www.globalrefuge.org/news/refugees-asylum-seekers-migrants-whats-the-difference-lirs/Thanks! I read the info.👍 "leaves --- for financial or economic reasons" You can improve your economic situation in two ways in the new country, Sweden, either by social benefits and by paid work. Are both economic migrants? I'm a bit confused about what the boss of our authority Migrationsverket said on tv yesterday. It was like saying we don't want labour force from abroad. Or as if we could accept a surgeon from the USA, since she/he probably had to lower the wage by working here. But why would a surgeon from USA do that? A surgeon from Poland, Nigeria or Venezuela would be an economic migrant and not welcome? If so, that would be their next step. |
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Post by wannabee on Oct 18, 2024 13:26:27 GMT
Something else for you to not read although others may want to have a correct definition and not be misled by your previous post Who is an economic migrant?An economic migrant is different from a refugee or asylum seeker – this is someone who leaves his or her country of origin purely for financial or economic reasons. Economic migrants choose to move in order to find a better life and they do not flee because of persecution. There is no such thing as “economic asylum” – therefore, they do not fall within the criteria for refugee status and are not entitled to receive international protection. www.globalrefuge.org/news/refugees-asylum-seekers-migrants-whats-the-difference-lirs/Thanks! I read the info.👍 "leaves --- for financial or economic reasons" You can improve your economic situation in two ways in the new country, Sweden, either by social benefits and by paid work. Are both economic migrants? I'm a bit confused about what the boss of our authority Migrationsverket said on tv yesterday. It was like saying we don't want labour force from abroad. Or as if we could accept a surgeon from the USA, since she/he probably had to lower the wage by working here. But why would a surgeon from USA do that? A surgeon from Poland, Nigeria or Venezuela would be an economic migrant and not welcome? If so, that would be their next step. I didn't see her interview but I'm sure she meant she didn't want people turning up uninvited. They then make a claim for Asylum which they are not entitled to for Economic reasons under International Law, only if they are fleeing danger etc, but depending on where they have come from it may not be possible to send them back A surgeon from Poland, Nigeria or Venezuela could easily apply and be granted a work permit and they would become a Migrant but not for Economic reasons |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 19, 2024 8:26:49 GMT
Thanks! I read the info.👍 "leaves --- for financial or economic reasons" You can improve your economic situation in two ways in the new country, Sweden, either by social benefits and by paid work. Are both economic migrants? I'm a bit confused about what the boss of our authority Migrationsverket said on tv yesterday. It was like saying we don't want labour force from abroad. Or as if we could accept a surgeon from the USA, since she/he probably had to lower the wage by working here. But why would a surgeon from USA do that? A surgeon from Poland, Nigeria or Venezuela would be an economic migrant and not welcome? If so, that would be their next step. I didn't see her interview but I'm sure she meant she didn't want people turning up uninvited. They then make a claim for Asylum which they are not entitled to for Economic reasons under International Law, only if they are fleeing danger etc, but depending on where they have come from it may not be possible to send them back A surgeon from Poland, Nigeria or Venezuela could easily apply and be granted a work permit and they would become a Migrant but not for Economic reasons The majority of people who apply through the official channels to work in another country do it for economic reasons. The vast majority of people who have settled in another country are economic migrants. Controlled immigration is controlled for economic reasons. The huge increase in immigrants under the Tories was because they fucked up the economy with Brexit and their only solution was to import cheap overseas labour. The Labour Party's solution to reducing controlled immigration is to get more of the indigenous population back into the workplace so the economic need for bringing in economic migrants is reduced. It is correct that some migrants not going through the official channels are doing it for economic reasons but they have no right to asylum and a legally be deported. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 19, 2024 8:30:09 GMT
I didn't see her interview but I'm sure she meant she didn't want people turning up uninvited. They then make a claim for Asylum which they are not entitled to for Economic reasons under International Law, only if they are fleeing danger etc, but depending on where they have come from it may not be possible to send them back A surgeon from Poland, Nigeria or Venezuela could easily apply and be granted a work permit and they would become a Migrant but not for Economic reasons The majority of people who apply through the official channels to work in another country do it for economic reasons. The vast majority of people who have settled in another country are economic migrants. Controlled immigration is controlled for economic reasons. The huge increase in immigrants under the Tories was because they fucked up the economy with Brexit and their only solution was to import cheap overseas labour. The Labour Party's solution to reducing controlled immigration is to get more of the indigenous population back into the workplace so the economic need for bringing in economic migrants is reduced. It is correct that some migrants not going through the official channels are doing it for economic reasons but they have no right to asylum and a legally be deported. Looking forward to my fat jab so I can lose weight and get back to laying bricks 😅 👍 |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 19, 2024 10:55:25 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 19, 2024 11:08:22 GMT
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Post by musik on Oct 19, 2024 12:08:07 GMT
I didn't see her interview but I'm sure she meant she didn't want people turning up uninvited. They then make a claim for Asylum which they are not entitled to for Economic reasons under International Law, only if they are fleeing danger etc, but depending on where they have come from it may not be possible to send them back A surgeon from Poland, Nigeria or Venezuela could easily apply and be granted a work permit and they would become a Migrant but not for Economic reasons The majority of people who apply through the official channels to work in another country do it for economic reasons. The vast majority of people who have settled in another country are economic migrants. It is correct that some migrants not going through the official channels are doing it for economic reasons but they have no right to asylum and a legally be deported. Thanks! I've thought about the definition "economic migrant" the last week and now I'm convinced our politicians up here, at least the government, use it in a way to mean ALL people coming here trying to get a better wage than before, through work, ans also the ones looking for social benefits only without other intentions. A sort of generalisation. A way to keep track of a decreasing total population, which seems to be their absolute main goal. Maybe even a way of holding down our present low inflation they now have achieved. Finally I have begun to understand why they usually don't make any difference between uncontrolled and controlled immigration either. They simply don't want any. One more thing I remembered. The journalist/tv host asked: "What about the asylum right?" She answered she is not against it now, but if the situation in Europe gets worse she might reconsider her decision. Conclusion: So when people are more in the need for help, they close the door?🤔 Hmm. |
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Post by musik on Oct 19, 2024 12:10:29 GMT
This reminds me of the Moment 22 in all this. Get a job, you bast@rd! and The bast@rd took my job! Whatever they do they are blamed. It can't be nice. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 19, 2024 12:41:34 GMT
There’s lots of “activists” who talk the talk but when it comes to actually doing something constructive they do no more than the people they look on as being the enemy. Now don’t get me wrong I’m no fan of the “Just stop Oil” protestors but at least they’re prepared to risk there liberties for their principles. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 21, 2024 23:16:55 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Oct 22, 2024 2:35:34 GMT
There’s lots of “activists” who talk the talk but when it comes to actually doing something constructive they do no more than the people they look on as being the enemy. Now don’t get me wrong I’m no fan of the “Just stop Oil” protestors but at least they’re prepared to risk there liberties for their principles. If I'm not mistaken this story has been doing the rounds for almost a year, GBeebies had an "exclusive" on it and interviewed a local concerned resident Gemma The first thing to correct from Queen Natalie a.k.a. The Norfolk Lion Tweet is there is no such thing as an illegal migrant www.gbnews.com/news/farnborough-resident-reacts-to-the-migrant-accommodation-pauseAmong Gemma's concerns was "i think that any group of group of 350 people from a "war-torn country" where all that they have experienced is violence is going to be a worry"
"We don't know who these people are, we don't know what trauma they have, we don't know if they are here to embrace our culture"
The Home Office had said that the accommodation was for Families and Single Women but in her GBeebies interview Gemma was concerned because she had seen 4/5 Middle Aged Men. I wonder if Gemma and others are equally concerned about the 200+K Ukrainians who have come to UK from a "war-torn country" do we know who they are  i assume they have been given some sort of accommodation, versus the 140K who have arrived in small boats since 2018 As for the chap with the Clipboard you know well how videos can be manipulated, in any case it is Governments International responsibility to provide accommodation to Asylum Seekers while their claim is being reviewed, not individual people who are sympathetic to their plight and wish to see that their human rights are upheld. |
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Post by thisisouryear on Oct 22, 2024 6:00:00 GMT
What's the solution then? because according to that they are being brought here to replace us Politicians from all sides will just help the capitalists to exploit more immigrants for cheap labor and although the far left won't help the capitalists durectly they would let anyone and everyone to come here and drive down wages due to the sheer number of people after jobs therefore helping the capitalists because they just wouldn't stay in power long enough. There is no winner, anger will prevail because this is what is happening now and the country is getting angrier and angrier. It all leads to population control because violence won't be tolerated no matter who is the government and by leaving the ECHR people will be weakened even further by whoever ends up in government. The far right will be the biggest winners in all of this, they will first want to control the left by any means and then they will eventually turn to control the right. |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 22, 2024 12:31:08 GMT
It's all crumbling down for Mossad agent Stephen Yaxley-Lennon 🤣. The real (non big business funded) right wing are turning on him too and realising they're being used as cannon fodder.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 22, 2024 12:45:28 GMT
It's all crumbling down for Mossad agent Stephen Yaxley-Lennon 🤣. The real (non big business funded) right wing are turning on him too and realising they're being used as cannon fodder. Described by some journos as the documentary of the year, this was broadcast for the first time last night. Many people on here will hate it but I thought it was incredibly interesting ... www.channel4.com/programmes/undercover-exposing-the-far-right |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 22, 2024 12:58:52 GMT
What's the solution then? because according to that they are being brought here to replace us Politicians from all sides will just help the capitalists to exploit more immigrants for cheap labor and although the far left won't help the capitalists durectly they would let anyone and everyone to come here and drive down wages due to the sheer number of people after jobs therefore helping the capitalists because they just wouldn't stay in power long enough. There is no winner, anger will prevail because this is what is happening now and the country is getting angrier and angrier. It all leads to population control because violence won't be tolerated no matter who is the government and by leaving the ECHR people will be weakened even further by whoever ends up in government. The far right will be the biggest winners in all of this, they will first want to control the left by any means and then they will eventually turn to control the right. Tis why some refer to labour and the Conservatives as 2 cheeks of the same arse. Not strictly true of course but it isn't too far from the truth it would appear. But yes I agree its the big corporations that really run the show. And the word show is appropriate. Its all one big stage performance 🎭 But the punters are indeed getting bored of the script..but what's to be done about it, no idea I'm afraid.. |
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Post by Gawa on Oct 22, 2024 13:25:31 GMT
It's all crumbling down for Mossad agent Stephen Yaxley-Lennon 🤣. The real (non big business funded) right wing are turning on him too and realising they're being used as cannon fodder. Described by some journos as the documentary of the year, this was broadcast for the first time last night. Many people on here will hate it but I thought it was incredibly interesting ... www.channel4.com/programmes/undercover-exposing-the-far-rightI don't particularly trust "hope not hate" to be honest with you. They were also part of the scam to oust corbyn. And they've been incredibly quiet on Labour racism too since - novaramedia.com/2024/06/17/would-the-real-anti-racists-please-stand-up/They're not an impartial group and they're politically affiliated. I doubt any documentary from them will properly expose who is funding alot of this. They're part of the problem as far as I'm concerned. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 22, 2024 14:25:13 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 22, 2024 14:51:46 GMT
It's all crumbling down for Mossad agent Stephen Yaxley-Lennon 🤣. The real (non big business funded) right wing are turning on him too and realising they're being used as cannon fodder. Described by some journos as the documentary of the year, this was broadcast for the first time last night. Many people on here will hate it but I thought it was incredibly interesting ... www.channel4.com/programmes/undercover-exposing-the-far-rightLooking forward to watching it Paul, probably take it in over the weekend. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 22, 2024 14:52:43 GMT
I don't particularly trust "hope not hate" to be honest with you. They were also part of the scam to oust corbyn. And they've been incredibly quiet on Labour racism too since - novaramedia.com/2024/06/17/would-the-real-anti-racists-please-stand-up/They're not an impartial group and they're politically affiliated. I doubt any documentary from them will properly expose who is funding alot of this. They're part of the problem as far as I'm concerned. Indeed...Ruth "strictly protect" Smeeth heavily involved. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 25, 2024 5:29:22 GMT
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Post by Northy on Oct 25, 2024 8:07:02 GMT
I see they are now coming over in speed boats, won't be long before there's a remote controlled version to take the boat back again.
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Post by phileetin on Oct 25, 2024 9:12:55 GMT
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Post by phileetin on Oct 25, 2024 11:22:21 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Oct 25, 2024 11:32:06 GMT
As Andrea True Connection once sang
More More More🙄
We’ll smash the gangs🤣🤣🤣
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Post by callas12 on Oct 25, 2024 12:16:54 GMT
Boy, 16, arrested over sex attack on girl is fleeing Afghan put in military camp www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/boy-16-arrested-over-sex-9658598#ICID=Android_StokeSentinelNewApp_AppShareA little closer to home as well. & this one related to so called controlled immigration! Been kept very quiet & low key on the local & national news scene as well 🙄😬! Quite simply, people coming to live over here with totally different values, persuasions & perceptions to our own. These type of incidents are occurring on an almost daily basis & will continue to increase in volume, and sadly but quite predictably are never being properly shown or covered by the MSM! |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 25, 2024 12:19:59 GMT
Boy, 16, arrested over sex attack on girl is fleeing Afghan put in military camp www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/boy-16-arrested-over-sex-9658598#ICID=Android_StokeSentinelNewApp_AppShareA little closer to home as well. & this one related to so called controlled immigration! Been kept very quiet & low key on the local & national news scene as well 🙄😬! Quite simply, people coming to live over here with totally different values, persuasions & perceptions to our own. These type of incidents are occurring on an almost daily basis & will continue to increase in volume, and sadly but quite predictably are never being properly shown or covered by the MSM! Evidence of almost daily incidents of sex attacks from immigrants, please. Wile you're at it, how many sex attacks are undertaken by indigenous Brits as a comparison? |
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i assume they have been given some sort of accommodation, versus the 140K who have arrived in small boats since 2018
