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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 9:17:45 GMT
One probably could be built next to the ground, but it would never pay for itself and so doesn’t make any sense. Why do you say that? About not paying for itself. Just curious, no argument intended Because when they originally looked at it it made no sense at all financially for the amount of times it would be used which is why the project never got off the ground, that and it being so close to Stoke station
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 22, 2022 10:04:14 GMT
One probably could be built next to the ground, but it would never pay for itself and so doesn’t make any sense. i have no idea about train station costs, but to me, a platform with some lights, benches, information stands and a line that separates it from the mainline, doesn't seem that expensive. It'll only be used about 20 times a year so it'd be more of an open stop, than London Bridge grand redesign. And it would need staffing and maintaining, who would pay for that? How many fans travel by train these days? Most away teams seem to bring a few hundred in the Championship most of whom I assume come by coach/car. For fans arriving at Stoke Station there is bus transfer direct to the away end. I think there is also transfers for Stoke fans from the station where you can also park your car and how long does the walk take? Away fans would need escorting from the station through the home fans area, extra potential for trouble and cost in policing.
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Post by banksy1art on Nov 22, 2022 11:36:43 GMT
from what I’ve been reading, the council are definitely looking to make more use of our local railway lines. They’ve received 40 million pounds by the government for ‘Travel improvements’ which will be going towards the new stations across the city.
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Post by lordb on Nov 22, 2022 12:24:42 GMT
from what I’ve been reading, the council are definitely looking to make more use of our local railway lines. They’ve received 40 million pounds by the government for ‘Travel improvements’ which will be going towards the new stations across the city. £40m wouldn't fund one station > they will need to find lots more £ from elsewhere that's why have to be highly sceptical about anything significant happening
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Post by ashleyscfc on Nov 22, 2022 12:48:15 GMT
Fair enough. I think the point I was trying to make was that the town (and the wider borough) doesn't have what you could consider a main station and really should have, especially when you consider smaller towns in the midlands like Burton and Shrewsbury have a decent enough station. As a kidsgrove lad, I've always thought of the town being in SOT (even though I know it's NBC that collects the council tax) NUL having a station seems a tad pointless? We definitely need a tran system but NUL should amalgamated into S-O-T. It’s totally daft to have two different entities for what is really one place. Ironically enough NUL and SMDC were asked recently if they wanted to take part in SOTs plan for a local tram system and they declined. Utter madness, we need transport for all of North Staffs. The stadium included. Hopefully Trentham station is built and Etruria reopened ASAP.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 12:48:49 GMT
from what I’ve been reading, the council are definitely looking to make more use of our local railway lines. They’ve received 40 million pounds by the government for ‘Travel improvements’ which will be going towards the new stations across the city. £40m wouldn't fund one station > they will need to find lots more £ from elsewhere that's why have to be highly sceptical about anything significant happening A a station at the ground would in no way justify the costs
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 12:50:54 GMT
NUL having a station seems a tad pointless? We definitely need a tran system but NUL should amalgamated into S-O-T. It’s totally daft to have two different entities for what is really one place. Ironically enough NUL and SMDC were asked recently if they wanted to take part in SOTs plan for a local tram system and they declined. Utter madness, we need transport for all of North Staffs. The stadium included. Hopefully Trentham station is built and Etruria reopened ASAP. That is madness and shows why imo it needs to be one authority for the main body of the conurbation of SOT so Biddulph to Rough Close. Keele to Werrington. Now you’d have Stafford Borough, SOT, NUL and Staffs Moorlands covering essentially what should be Stoke.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 12:53:13 GMT
Will it have a Crunch chocolate tray machine that steals 20ps for fun?
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Post by anewman on Nov 22, 2022 12:53:47 GMT
There is a station at Old Trafford which has not been used for years as it's not viable. If an existing station is not viable at a stadium with 70k+ attendances, then a new one at Bet365 certainly isn't.
If there was a time to do it it was when the stadium was built. In future when HS2 opens that may free up enough capacity to have a station at SCFC, but funding would have to come from PFI etc.
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Post by ashleyscfc on Nov 22, 2022 12:58:33 GMT
Ironically enough NUL and SMDC were asked recently if they wanted to take part in SOTs plan for a local tram system and they declined. Utter madness, we need transport for all of North Staffs. The stadium included. Hopefully Trentham station is built and Etruria reopened ASAP. That is madness and shows why imo it needs to be one authority for the main body of the conurbation of SOT so Biddulph to Rough Close. Keele to Werrington. Now you’d have Stafford Borough, SOT, NUL and Staffs Moorlands covering essentially what should be Stoke. You try telling someone from NUL they are part of something with Stoke in the name, will never happen. They see themselves as entirely separate, opposing areas. The A500 might as well by the berlin wall to them. It's a big part of the reason the areas are all held back. All of the little empires refuse to play together but as we all know, anyone in north staffs spends most of our time working/living/visiting between SOT/NUL/SMDC/SBC. Join them up and we've got some real clout but they just wont do it. Saw this and seems a good thing to chuck into this discussion
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 12:58:56 GMT
There is a station at Old Trafford which has not been used for years as it's not viable. If an existing station is not viable at a stadium with £70k+ attendances, then a new one at Bet365 certainly isn't. If there was a time to do it it was when the stadium was built. In future when HS2 opens that may free up enough capacity to have a station at SCFC, but funding would have to come from PFI etc. They looked at doing it when the stadium built but made no financial sense at all and never a goer. A few other factors as well
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Post by datguy on Nov 22, 2022 12:59:40 GMT
Leek desperately needs a station connecting it to Stoke and/or Macc. It's a great place already... rebuilding the train station would unlock the place.
Passed my driving test when I was 20. Became a necessity though - the public transport in Staffs Moorlands is utter shite and couldn't afford not to drive. Which is mental.
Can get an Avanti fast train ticket to Manchester and back to Stoke cheaper than a return bus ticket from Hanley to Leek ... shameful.
The public transport in our Stoke is a disgrace. I live in Manchester now and a car is by no means a necessity.
EDIT: point being I guess: fat chance of a train station next to the ground when even Leek doesn't have one...
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Post by owdestokie2 on Nov 22, 2022 15:06:34 GMT
I’m sorry but you’re living in cloud cuckoo land. Admiration for your thinking positively though 👍 the exact response I’d expect from an ‘Owde Stokie’. It’s why our city is shit, absolutely no ambition. Completely wrong about my response. I’ll refer you to my earlier post. Who would finance it? In addition to the football supporters where’s the other footfall passengers coming from/going to? Name those other stations….. Etruria why? will never be reopened, not financially viable. Who would fund it? Trentham why? see above Barlaston, see Etruria above Reopening the Leek line, I doubt it in my lifetime. Meir Station, political fantasy? We will see What about reopening the Silverdale to Newcastle to Stoke line via Basford and Cliff Vale? Ooops all the land route has been developed
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 22, 2022 16:05:43 GMT
That is madness and shows why imo it needs to be one authority for the main body of the conurbation of SOT so Biddulph to Rough Close. Keele to Werrington. Now you’d have Stafford Borough, SOT, NUL and Staffs Moorlands covering essentially what should be Stoke. You try telling someone from NUL they are part of something with Stoke in the name, will never happen. They see themselves as entirely separate, opposing areas. The A500 might as well by the berlin wall to them. It's a big part of the reason the areas are all held back. All of the little empires refuse to play together but as we all know, anyone in north staffs spends most of our time working/living/visiting between SOT/NUL/SMDC/SBC. Join them up and we've got some real clout but they just wont do it. Saw this and seems a good thing to chuck into this discussion Where did you find that map?
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Post by iamstokie on Nov 22, 2022 16:55:31 GMT
Any station near the ground would need a road to it , and since a road can cost up to 20mil per mile that would rule it out straight away
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 18:46:44 GMT
Any station near the ground would need a road to it , and since a road can cost up to 20mil per mile that would rule it out straight away Yep, some seem to think is just a case of flap a platform along the tracks like SIM City
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 18:51:56 GMT
You try telling someone from NUL they are part of something with Stoke in the name, will never happen. They see themselves as entirely separate, opposing areas. The A500 might as well by the berlin wall to them. It's a big part of the reason the areas are all held back. All of the little empires refuse to play together but as we all know, anyone in north staffs spends most of our time working/living/visiting between SOT/NUL/SMDC/SBC. Join them up and we've got some real clout but they just wont do it. Saw this and seems a good thing to chuck into this discussion Where did you find that map? I’ve seen it on twitter before and presumed it was the account made but not sure on the origins of it.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2022 19:07:27 GMT
You try telling someone from NUL they are part of something with Stoke in the name, will never happen. They see themselves as entirely separate, opposing areas. The A500 might as well by the berlin wall to them. It's a big part of the reason the areas are all held back. All of the little empires refuse to play together but as we all know, anyone in north staffs spends most of our time working/living/visiting between SOT/NUL/SMDC/SBC. Join them up and we've got some real clout but they just wont do it. Saw this and seems a good thing to chuck into this discussion Where did you find that map? Why? Is it yours? That sounded very aggressive 🤣
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 22, 2022 19:10:28 GMT
Where did you find that map? Why? Is it yours? That sounded very aggressive 🤣 Me, aggressive, never. 😄😄
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2022 19:11:13 GMT
Why? Is it yours? That sounded very aggressive 🤣 Me, aggressive, never. 😄😄 Like an angry pirate🤣
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 22, 2022 19:12:18 GMT
Me, aggressive, never. 😄😄 Like an angry pirate🤣 Rrrrrrr you got me 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2022 19:15:09 GMT
Rrrrrrr you got me 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️ Give me my map back for pieces of eight
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Post by maninasuitcase on Nov 22, 2022 19:24:43 GMT
Rrrrrrr you got me 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️ Give me my map back for pieces of eight Only after you swab the deck ya scurvy varment.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 22, 2022 20:07:47 GMT
Ironically enough NUL and SMDC were asked recently if they wanted to take part in SOTs plan for a local tram system and they declined. Utter madness, we need transport for all of North Staffs. The stadium included. Hopefully Trentham station is built and Etruria reopened ASAP. That is madness and shows why imo it needs to be one authority for the main body of the conurbation of SOT so Biddulph to Rough Close. Keele to Werrington. Now you’d have Stafford Borough, SOT, NUL and Staffs Moorlands covering essentially what should be Stoke. I think it just a question of time and the will of the people. On 1st April next year the whole of North Yorkshire becomes a single authority with the exception of the city of York. That means 8 authorities from Skipton to Scarborough become one large area and will have trendous clout. An area much bigger than the whole of Staffordshire. Naturally there are those upset at living their influence in their own neck of the woods. But a large authority attracts the best people to work in the interests of the community. www.cravendc.gov.uk/news/news-archive-folder/july-2021/government-announces-plans-for-a-unitary-council-to-cover-the-whole-of-north-yorkshire/Other areas are doing similar, so expect eventually there will be one North Staffordshire like West Sussex or East Cheshire. Edit: a map - mapit.mysociety.org/area/2235.html
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 20:11:09 GMT
That is madness and shows why imo it needs to be one authority for the main body of the conurbation of SOT so Biddulph to Rough Close. Keele to Werrington. Now you’d have Stafford Borough, SOT, NUL and Staffs Moorlands covering essentially what should be Stoke. You try telling someone from NUL they are part of something with Stoke in the name, will never happen. They see themselves as entirely separate, opposing areas. The A500 might as well by the berlin wall to them. It's a big part of the reason the areas are all held back. All of the little empires refuse to play together but as we all know, anyone in north staffs spends most of our time working/living/visiting between SOT/NUL/SMDC/SBC. Join them up and we've got some real clout but they just wont do it. Saw this and seems a good thing to chuck into this discussion Yeah they are very pathetic. Agreed though and it goes into Longton vs Burslem etc too. Everyone wants something for their town but not the other. Again it’s pathetic and backward.
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Post by banksy1art on Nov 22, 2022 20:54:20 GMT
the exact response I’d expect from an ‘Owde Stokie’. It’s why our city is shit, absolutely no ambition. Completely wrong about my response. I’ll refer you to my earlier post. Who would finance it? In addition to the football supporters where’s the other footfall passengers coming from/going to? Name those other stations….. Etruria why? will never be reopened, not financially viable. Who would fund it? Trentham why? see above Barlaston, see Etruria above Reopening the Leek line, I doubt it in my lifetime. Meir Station, political fantasy? We will see What about reopening the Silverdale to Newcastle to Stoke line via Basford and Cliff Vale? Ooops all the land route has been developed ”who would finance it” The Council could potentially fund it, as it would increase footfall into our town centers before and after games, the ground could be used for other events and traffic and emissions would be taken off our roads. These could be seen as viable factors. The station could also be used for many of the employees at the businesses at Trentham lakes. The club could potentially partly fund the project if they see it as viable. The project would likely increase attendances, and would see the new sports bar more busy on non match days as I’m not sure how people who have had a drink can currently get back home, other than a taxi. “ In addition to the football supporters where’s the other footfall passengers coming from/going to?” Lots of businesses, hundreds of houses within walking distance, the new sports bar, the hotel, the harvester, club shop, ticket office. “ Reopening the Leek line, I doubt it in my lifetime.” You’ll be glad to know that work is well underway!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 22, 2022 21:07:02 GMT
Completely wrong about my response. I’ll refer you to my earlier post. Who would finance it? In addition to the football supporters where’s the other footfall passengers coming from/going to? Name those other stations….. Etruria why? will never be reopened, not financially viable. Who would fund it? Trentham why? see above Barlaston, see Etruria above Reopening the Leek line, I doubt it in my lifetime. Meir Station, political fantasy? We will see What about reopening the Silverdale to Newcastle to Stoke line via Basford and Cliff Vale? Ooops all the land route has been developed ”who would finance it” The Council could potentially fund it, as it would increase footfall into our town centers before and after games, the ground could be used for other events and traffic and emissions would be taken off our roads. These could be seen as viable factors. The station could also be used for many of the employees at the businesses at Trentham lakes. The club could potentially partly fund the project if they see it as viable. The project would likely increase attendances, and would see the new sports bar more busy on non match days as I’m not sure how people who have had a drink can currently get back home, other than a taxi. “ In addition to the football supporters where’s the other footfall passengers coming from/going to?” Lots of businesses, hundreds of houses within walking distance, the new sports bar, the hotel, the harvester, club shop, ticket office. “ Reopening the Leek line, I doubt it in my lifetime.” You’ll be glad to know that work is well underway! Councils are about to be decimated by the Tory government. The club would need to fund all of it. The Leek line looks promising but it’s only preparatory work isn’t it? And no one’s committed to actually building it or putting an actual train on it yet. I think there’s a good chance it will happen but it’s not a given.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Nov 22, 2022 23:11:59 GMT
Completely wrong about my response. I’ll refer you to my earlier post. Who would finance it? In addition to the football supporters where’s the other footfall passengers coming from/going to? Name those other stations….. Etruria why? will never be reopened, not financially viable. Who would fund it? Trentham why? see above Barlaston, see Etruria above Reopening the Leek line, I doubt it in my lifetime. Meir Station, political fantasy? We will see What about reopening the Silverdale to Newcastle to Stoke line via Basford and Cliff Vale? Ooops all the land route has been developed ”who would finance it” The Council could potentially fund it, as it would increase footfall into our town centers before and after games, the ground could be used for other events and traffic and emissions would be taken off our roads. These could be seen as viable factors. The station could also be used for many of the employees at the businesses at Trentham lakes. The club could potentially partly fund the project if they see it as viable. The project would likely increase attendances, and would see the new sports bar more busy on non match days as I’m not sure how people who have had a drink can currently get back home, other than a taxi. “ In addition to the football supporters where’s the other footfall passengers coming from/going to?” Lots of businesses, hundreds of houses within walking distance, the new sports bar, the hotel, the harvester, club shop, ticket office. “ Reopening the Leek line, I doubt it in my lifetime.” You’ll be glad to know that work is well underway! I’m sorry but I’ll finish. You’re delusional. The “facts” are that no one group or consortium will even contemplate financing a partly used rail station and the infrastructure needed because there is no business case for it. Unless they’re all going to the ticket office and harvester!! I asked where the footfall passengers are coming from and going to, not a difficult question. Hundreds a day, on a regular service to……..Stoke Station or perhaps Longport.
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Post by ashleyscfc on Nov 23, 2022 0:50:42 GMT
”who would finance it” The Council could potentially fund it, as it would increase footfall into our town centers before and after games, the ground could be used for other events and traffic and emissions would be taken off our roads. These could be seen as viable factors. The station could also be used for many of the employees at the businesses at Trentham lakes. The club could potentially partly fund the project if they see it as viable. The project would likely increase attendances, and would see the new sports bar more busy on non match days as I’m not sure how people who have had a drink can currently get back home, other than a taxi. “ In addition to the football supporters where’s the other footfall passengers coming from/going to?” Lots of businesses, hundreds of houses within walking distance, the new sports bar, the hotel, the harvester, club shop, ticket office. “ Reopening the Leek line, I doubt it in my lifetime.” You’ll be glad to know that work is well underway! Councils are about to be decimated by the Tory government. The club would need to fund all of it. The Leek line looks promising but it’s only preparatory work isn’t it? And no one’s committed to actually building it or putting an actual train on it yet. I think there’s a good chance it will happen but it’s not a given. Central government would fund it. There are currently hundreds of small and large stations being built/reopened all across the country. To the tune of millions of pounds, out of the transport budget. It’s just we don’t see it. And we certainly don’t get anything our fair share, or anything above and beyond anywhere else. Even with Conservative MPs, county council, city council they’ve delivered a big far ZERO meaningful transport capital into the city that would affect change. Nothing! Don’t forget investment in transport is just that, investment. Done well it generates revenue! A return. Just like all other cities transport networks. And it generates capital £££ and growth! It will pay back the investment, it’s just about how long you’re willing to wait. And governments can wait as long as they want Ask yourself if a public owned and ran transport system is good enough for London (tfl) Manchester (tfgm) and Birmingham then why do we get ripped off with First etc? If it’s good enough for them it’s good enough for us Borrowing for capital spending (transport/energy) that gets a return eventually and growth is good. Borrowing to pay for our daily expenditure (see Liz Truss) is bad It just needs to be justifiable and we need to have the will to demand it. All good things stem from good transport…health, justice, culture, exercise, housing, business, investment It’s good to see the council try and go after it but it needs to be with a realistic delivery plan and concrete demands, as I said above the fact NUL/SMDC wanted no part is a disgrace and questions should be asked.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 23, 2022 6:27:52 GMT
Councils are about to be decimated by the Tory government. The club would need to fund all of it. The Leek line looks promising but it’s only preparatory work isn’t it? And no one’s committed to actually building it or putting an actual train on it yet. I think there’s a good chance it will happen but it’s not a given. Central government would fund it. There are currently hundreds of small and large stations being built/reopened all across the country. To the tune of millions of pounds, out of the transport budget. It’s just we don’t see it. And we certainly don’t get anything our fair share, or anything above and beyond anywhere else. Even with Conservative MPs, county council, city council they’ve delivered a big far ZERO meaningful transport capital into the city that would affect change. Nothing! Don’t forget investment in transport is just that, investment. Done well it generates revenue! A return. Just like all other cities transport networks. And it generates capital £££ and growth! It will pay back the investment, it’s just about how long you’re willing to wait. And governments can wait as long as they want Ask yourself if a public owned and ran transport system is good enough for London (tfl) Manchester (tfgm) and Birmingham then why do we get ripped off with First etc? If it’s good enough for them it’s good enough for us Borrowing for capital spending (transport/energy) that gets a return eventually and growth is good. Borrowing to pay for our daily expenditure (see Liz Truss) is bad It just needs to be justifiable and we need to have the will to demand it. All good things stem from good transport…health, justice, culture, exercise, housing, business, investment It’s good to see the council try and go after it but it needs to be with a realistic delivery plan and concrete demands, as I said above the fact NUL/SMDC wanted no part is a disgrace and questions should be asked. There’s not a chance they’d fund it for such a niche station that benefits a major Labour donor imo.
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