|
|
Post by thevoid on Nov 12, 2022 8:36:43 GMT
Choke. How typical
|
|
|
|
Post by deeside2 on Nov 12, 2022 8:48:31 GMT
So disappointed for the team - great effort with just 14 players.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 12, 2022 8:50:59 GMT
It does seem that way. I would like to see some stats on number of finals won v lost for England cricket, football and rugby, men and women. I'll bet it's a ratio of close to 2:1 in favour of lost. Let's see if the men's cricket team can buck the trend... |
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 12, 2022 8:54:34 GMT
So disappointed for the team - great effort with just 14 players. I have to say the yellow for NZ was no different from the English red, I was listening to the TMO and I'm not sure he got it right the impact was head first but hey ho. Edit: I hate that rule BTW it's completely accidental and yes they know to tackle low but the penalty doesn't fit the offence in most cases. |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 12, 2022 8:56:28 GMT
So I checked. Looked at mens and womens football world cup and euros, cricket world cup and t20 world cup and rugby world cup.
Won 13 finals, lost 24.
That's a pretty damning stat, not far off a 2:1 ratio as I'd guessed.
It probably says something about the English sporting mentality on the whole, just don't have that belief that they're winners. (Even Martin Johnson had to have Kiwi-induced belief!)
Supporting Stoke and England is a bit of a curse really!
|
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 12, 2022 9:17:04 GMT
On the plus side, England teams are nearly always massively over-rated at the bookies, so not only is a bet on the opposition in a final twice as likely to come off, the actual odds on that happening are nearly always better than they should be too.
England 8/13, Pakistan 13/10 for tomorrow's T20 being a good example.
|
|
|
|
Post by xchpotter on Nov 12, 2022 9:21:26 GMT
Wonder what the reaction has been in the changing room towards the player sent off. Pundits suggest it was appropriate…..do they come together as a team and support or say a few choice words? Without a shadow of doubt they would’ve won that with a full team and for some, they won’t get that close to a World Cup again. I know there’s the saying that you win and you lose as a team, but it’s hard to take when someone lets you down like that.
|
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Nov 12, 2022 10:17:51 GMT
It does seem that way. I would like to see some stats on number of finals won v lost for England cricket, football and rugby, men and women. I'll bet it's a ratio of close to 2:1 in favour of lost. Let's see if the men's cricket team can buck the trend... The RL will probably go the same way- we should beat Samoa today but then it's the Aussies in the Final again. Having said that, SA must be the biggest chokers in cricket. |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 12, 2022 10:54:01 GMT
Wonder what the reaction has been in the changing room towards the player sent off. Pundits suggest it was appropriate…..do they come together as a team and support or say a few choice words? Without a shadow of doubt they would’ve won that with a full team and for some, they won’t get that close to a World Cup again. I know there’s the saying that you win and you lose as a team, but it’s hard to take when someone lets you down like that. I'm sure they'll be supportive. As you say you win and lose as a team, that's the nature of playing team sports. She's probably done enough positive things for the team in the past as well, so it's just unfortunate that she had this happen in the biggest game of her and her teammates' lives. It is odd how many times England teams manage to find a way to lose finals. |
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 12, 2022 11:07:44 GMT
Wonder what the reaction has been in the changing room towards the player sent off. Pundits suggest it was appropriate…..do they come together as a team and support or say a few choice words? Without a shadow of doubt they would’ve won that with a full team and for some, they won’t get that close to a World Cup again. I know there’s the saying that you win and you lose as a team, but it’s hard to take when someone lets you down like that. I'm sure they'll be supportive. As you say you win and lose as a team, that's the nature of playing team sports. She's probably done enough positive things for the team in the past as well, so it's just unfortunate that she had this happen in the biggest game of her and her teammates' lives. It is odd how many times England teams manage to find a way to lose finals. I think some of the changes in the pack changed the game I thought they were too early and we lost some forward momentum 😕 Old school up the jumper and they couldn't cope 🤷♂️ |
|
|
|
Post by knype on Nov 12, 2022 11:52:16 GMT
Hardly choked tbf. A fantastic effort with 14 on the pitch. |
|
|
|
Post by knype on Nov 12, 2022 11:52:38 GMT
It does seem that way. I would like to see some stats on number of finals won v lost for England cricket, football and rugby, men and women. I'll bet it's a ratio of close to 2:1 in favour of lost. Let's see if the men's cricket team can buck the trend... Dear me, clueless |
|
|
|
Post by knype on Nov 12, 2022 11:53:40 GMT
Wonder what the reaction has been in the changing room towards the player sent off. Pundits suggest it was appropriate…..do they come together as a team and support or say a few choice words? Without a shadow of doubt they would’ve won that with a full team and for some, they won’t get that close to a World Cup again. I know there’s the saying that you win and you lose as a team, but it’s hard to take when someone lets you down like that. It's accidental,it's a teammate and a squad game, damn right you rally round her. |
|
|
|
Post by professorplump on Nov 12, 2022 13:01:10 GMT
It's really disappointing to lose as England are the best in the world at women's rugby, but sadly the red card played a major part in deciding the result. Bearing in mind that NZ also had 40,000 fans roaring them on, I think England did well to stay in the game to the 80th minute. I don't agree with those who say that they choked.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 12, 2022 16:44:54 GMT
It does seem that way. I would like to see some stats on number of finals won v lost for England cricket, football and rugby, men and women. I'll bet it's a ratio of close to 2:1 in favour of lost. Let's see if the men's cricket team can buck the trend... Dear me, clueless So clueless, I actually checked and was proved spot on  |
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 12, 2022 17:04:46 GMT
It's really disappointing to lose as England are the best in the world at women's rugby, but sadly the red card played a major part in deciding the result. Bearing in mind that NZ also had 40,000 fans roaring them on, I think England did well to stay in the game to the 80th minute. I don't agree with those who say that they choked. Absolutely they didn't choke they went away from a dominant pack and lost their way and even then they were one good throw from that line out to win at the end. |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 12, 2022 17:10:47 GMT
As a slice of schadenfreude to elevate the mood a touch, I see Italy beat Australia 28-27 today. That must be their first win against any of the big three southern hemisphere sides, surely?
Maybe the Aussies had a very much second string side out but even so, that's a great result for the Italians.
|
|
|
|
Post by liathroid on Nov 12, 2022 19:00:06 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by knype on Nov 12, 2022 20:20:59 GMT
So clueless, I actually checked and was proved spot on Statman, you're trying to make out that stats proved why England lost the game this morning...clueless |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2022 7:36:42 GMT
So clueless, I actually checked and was proved spot on Statman, you're trying to make out that stats proved why England lost the game this morning...clueless Lol. You are funny, knype. I know you struggle with even the most basic stuff, so allow me to try to help! My response was to thevoid's comment about England choking. How typical, he said. I agreed, but I thought I'd check to see if the stats showed that England sides do tend to blow finals. I even guessed that our win:loss ratio would be about 1:2 for the main team sports we play. It's pretty much spot on that! And a few hours later England blew the RL semifinal too. Let's hope they don't choke in the T20 final. Have another go! |
|
|
|
Post by knype on Nov 13, 2022 7:38:37 GMT
Statman, you're trying to make out that stats proved why England lost the game this morning...clueless Lol. You are funny, knype. I know you struggle with even the most basic stuff, so allow me to try to help! My response was to thevoid's comment about England choking. How typical, he said. I agreed, but I thought I'd check to see if the stats showed that England sides do tend to blow finals. I even guessed that our win:loss ratio would be about 1:2 for the main team sports we play. It's pretty much spot on that! And a few hours later England blew the RL semifinal too. Let's hope they don't choke in the T20 final. Have another go! Stick to your insane political rants as it obvious you know nothing about sport. Losing a final is not choking it, you wouldn't know as I bet you've never played any sport... |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2022 7:46:22 GMT
Some cracking tries from the Italians there. Great handling for the second one. |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 13, 2022 7:51:18 GMT
Lol. You are funny, knype. I know you struggle with even the most basic stuff, so allow me to try to help! My response was to thevoid's comment about England choking. How typical, he said. I agreed, but I thought I'd check to see if the stats showed that England sides do tend to blow finals. I even guessed that our win:loss ratio would be about 1:2 for the main team sports we play. It's pretty much spot on that! And a few hours later England blew the RL semifinal too. Let's hope they don't choke in the T20 final. Have another go! Stick to your insane political rants as it obvious you know nothing about sport. Losing a final is not choking it, you wouldn't know as I bet you've never played any sport... Lol, you are funny! I can only report the stats which confirm what I'd previously guessed from watching England lose finals on a regular basis. Perhaps they've just been consistently unlucky to come up against better sides time after time! Played semi-pro football. Not that that has any relevance to the point. Have another try! |
|
|
|
Post by knype on Nov 14, 2022 5:53:03 GMT
Stick to your insane political rants as it obvious you know nothing about sport. Losing a final is not choking it, you wouldn't know as I bet you've never played any sport... Lol, you are funny! I can only report the stats which confirm what I'd previously guessed from watching England lose finals on a regular basis. Perhaps they've just been consistently unlucky to come up against better sides time after time! Played semi-pro football. Not that that has any relevance to the point. Have another try! Surely if you have played sport you will know that the majority of the time the 2 teams that get to the final are normally the best ones? Therefore finals should be close run things, where like Saturday, 1 decision or 1 small mistake could cost you the game. That is not choking, choking is not turning up for the final and maybe losing by lots more than was expected? |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 14, 2022 8:16:20 GMT
I wasn't disputing the fact that the two teams that get to the final are usually the best ones, I was agreeing with thevoid that England seem, at the popular team sports at least, to be chokers.
In the context of the women's rugby, England were on a 30 game winning streak, had beaten NZ comfortably twice almost exactly a year ago yet managed to find a way to lose the one that mattered.
On a bigger scale, I said my guess would be that we have a win loss ratio of about 1:2 in big games/finals. I was right. Not only that, but in the three big games we played over the weekend we won one and lost two! Spot on what you'd expect.
It's not pleasant to have to admit it, but with the resources at our disposal we're very much a nation of chokers/under-achievers, I agree with thevoid in that regard.
|
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 15, 2022 20:45:35 GMT
I wasn't disputing the fact that the two teams that get to the final are usually the best ones, I was agreeing with thevoid that England seem, at the popular team sports at least, to be chokers. In the context of the women's rugby, England were on a 30 game winning streak, had beaten NZ comfortably twice almost exactly a year ago yet managed to find a way to lose the one that mattered. On a bigger scale, I said my guess would be that we have a win loss ratio of about 1:2 in big games/finals. I was right. Not only that, but in the three big games we played over the weekend we won one and lost two! Spot on what you'd expect. It's not pleasant to have to admit it, but with the resources at our disposal we're very much a nation of chokers/under-achievers, I agree with thevoid in that regard. I can't see it changing anytime soon either with some sports people complaining about coaches being nasty to them bless. |
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 15, 2022 22:06:09 GMT
I wasn't disputing the fact that the two teams that get to the final are usually the best ones, I was agreeing with thevoid that England seem, at the popular team sports at least, to be chokers. In the context of the women's rugby, England were on a 30 game winning streak, had beaten NZ comfortably twice almost exactly a year ago yet managed to find a way to lose the one that mattered. On a bigger scale, I said my guess would be that we have a win loss ratio of about 1:2 in big games/finals. I was right. Not only that, but in the three big games we played over the weekend we won one and lost two! Spot on what you'd expect. It's not pleasant to have to admit it, but with the resources at our disposal we're very much a nation of chokers/under-achievers, I agree with thevoid in that regard. I can't see it changing anytime soon either with some sports people complaining about coaches being nasty to them bless. I sometimes wonder if there is something about the English psyche in general that we almost find it kind of distasteful to win, we're more comfortable being runners-up, taking part is what really matters. I'm not sure why that should infect our team sports in particular though? We have plenty of competitors who take part in individual sports who are more than capable of winning regularly. |
|
|
|
Post by knype on Nov 16, 2022 6:35:11 GMT
I can't see it changing anytime soon either with some sports people complaining about coaches being nasty to them bless. I sometimes wonder if there is something about the English psyche in general that we almost find it kind of distasteful to win, we're more comfortable being runners-up, taking part is what really matters. I'm not sure why that should infect our team sports in particular though? We have plenty of competitors who take part in individual sports who are more than capable of winning regularly. No, the everyone is a winner mentality that the do gooders want bringing in is what maybe is wrong? Awarding eveyone on sports day a medal! People coming second called 2nd winner ! etc etc etc |
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 16, 2022 6:52:34 GMT
I can't see it changing anytime soon either with some sports people complaining about coaches being nasty to them bless. I sometimes wonder if there is something about the English psyche in general that we almost find it kind of distasteful to win, we're more comfortable being runners-up, taking part is what really matters. I'm not sure why that should infect our team sports in particular though? We have plenty of competitors who take part in individual sports who are more than capable of winning regularly. The Ausies are notoriously tough and "no nonsense" when it comes to sport we are unfortunately not. I remember watching the german coach of our rowers working them so hard they puked Pinsent and co he'd be thrown in jail now for abuse. |
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Nov 16, 2022 7:35:02 GMT
I sometimes wonder if there is something about the English psyche in general that we almost find it kind of distasteful to win, we're more comfortable being runners-up, taking part is what really matters. I'm not sure why that should infect our team sports in particular though? We have plenty of competitors who take part in individual sports who are more than capable of winning regularly. The Ausies are notoriously tough and "no nonsense" when it comes to sport we are unfortunately not. I remember watching the german coach of our rowers working them so hard they puked Pinsent and co he'd be thrown in jail now for abuse. One of the lazy arguments that comes from our neighbours is that our sports teams are arrogant (which is based on nothing more than embarrassing Sun headlines whenever there's a tournament on). Maybe we're not arrogant enough? |
|
