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Post by spitthedog on May 31, 2022 16:13:08 GMT
Imagine the global backlash if spectators going to see the olympics get pepper sprayed. For football fans, it’s basically ‘meh’. Has there ever been crowd trouble at the olympics? It's unfair on the majority of football fans but as long as we keep seeing football violence it will give them a free pass. where was the violence?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 16:39:58 GMT
Has there ever been crowd trouble at the olympics? It's unfair on the majority of football fans but as long as we keep seeing football violence it will give them a free pass. where was the violence? Sheff play off game, port vale play off game, crystal Palace Vierra etc numerous occurences at the back end of the season. English football fans reinforcing their reputation for shit behavior that has the police hyped up wherever they go.
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Post by felonious on May 31, 2022 16:49:38 GMT
Sheff play off game, port vale play off game, crystal Palace Vierra etc numerous occurences at the back end of the season. English football fans reinforcing their reputation for shit behavior that has the police hyped up wherever they go. It's been far worse over the season in France so perhaps the police were already on edge.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 16:55:22 GMT
Sheff play off game, port vale play off game, crystal Palace Vierra etc numerous occurences at the back end of the season. English football fans reinforcing their reputation for shit behavior that has the police hyped up wherever they go. It's been far worse over the season in France so perhaps the police were already on edge. Quite possibly but when you question the tribal, goading, hate filled nature of many football supporters it's like heracy. You tell me why football is the only major sport that needs to segregate those who go to watch it. My answer is because it normalises sub human behavior.
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Post by werrington on May 31, 2022 17:45:46 GMT
Stewards taking tickets off fans then passing them along to somebody on the inside who then takes off …..scandalous
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Post by milton58 on May 31, 2022 18:04:45 GMT
Admin might be best putting this thread to bed now
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Post by jokker on May 31, 2022 18:13:47 GMT
In your own message you referred to a woman with a young child... I did yeah,my bad lol think my dad took me the amateur football when I was younger and starting taking me Stoke about 10 or 11 It was the other way round for me. I grew so fond of a) school football b) the 1966 world cup even if the wrong team won, that c) I joined the local club and soon was playing and d) I kept harassing my dad so he would join me and pay to see the first team at the weekend. There was no one disorderly at the games, because 1) we were lucky if there were 250 in the crowd 2) and it just wasn't the done thing in those cicilised days.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 31, 2022 19:35:24 GMT
Stewards taking tickets off fans then passing them along to somebody on the inside who then takes off …..scandalous
How any right minded person can watch this and not get an understanding of what was going on on Saturday is beyond belief.
The security stealing tickets off children FFS?
If that had happened to my kids, the situation would have escalated rapidly and violently, fair play to those supporters there staying calm under the most extreme provocation.
Poor lad at the end ... "Dad can we please get out."
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Post by spitthedog on May 31, 2022 19:44:43 GMT
Stewards taking tickets off fans then passing them along to somebody on the inside who then takes off …..scandalous How any right minded person can watch this and not get an understanding of what was going on on Saturday is beyond belief. The security stealing tickets off children FFS? If that had happened to my kids, the situation would have escalated rapidly and violently, fair play to those supporters there staying calm under the most extreme provocation. Poor lad at the end ... "Dad can we please get out."
I hope Liverpool take legal action against these organisers. What a complete shit thing to do. Totally unacceptable. Amazing that there wasn't a riot in the face of this.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 31, 2022 21:18:03 GMT
Sheff play off game, port vale play off game, crystal Palace Vierra etc numerous occurences at the back end of the season. English football fans reinforcing their reputation for shit behavior that has the police hyped up wherever they go. Why were they physically assaulting Real Madrid supporters too then?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 21:19:32 GMT
Sheff play off game, port vale play off game, crystal Palace Vierra etc numerous occurences at the back end of the season. English football fans reinforcing their reputation for shit behavior that has the police hyped up wherever they go. Why were they physically assaulting Real Madrid supporters too then? Once the red mist comes down they all look the same.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 31, 2022 21:26:39 GMT
Eh ? They were saying the ones scaling the fences looked like locals not Liverpool. I was questioning what does a Liverpool fan look like Ever heard that Arctic monkeys song "Scummy man, looks like he'd rob you if he can" A bit like that lol. So is it fair to say your ongoing defence of police brutality here is based on a predetermined prejudice against Liverpool fans?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 21:33:42 GMT
Ever heard that Arctic monkeys song "Scummy man, looks like he'd rob you if he can" A bit like that lol. So is it fair to say your ongoing defence of police brutality here is based on a predetermined prejudice against Liverpool fans? Not so much Liverpool fans as Scousers generally. Having dealt with people from most parts of the country and overseas in my experience they've a tendency to be a massive pain in the arse. It's not PC but comes from real life experience so I won't apologise for it.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 31, 2022 21:50:15 GMT
So is it fair to say your ongoing defence of police brutality here is based on a predetermined prejudice against Liverpool fans? Not so much Liverpool fans as Scousers generally. Having dealt with people from most parts of the country and overseas in my experience they've a tendency to be a massive pain in the arse. It's not PC but comes from real life experience so I won't apologise for it. No apology required. Or expected. I just wanted to clarify your views on Saturday night being based on your own prejudgment of scousers as opposed to the situation being discussed
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 31, 2022 21:56:03 GMT
There’s two things for me. Firstly the police have had issues obviously but on the other hand what happens if they didn’t take action or worse they made a similar fuck up as Hillsborough and pushed fans on as the situations with only a few gates open looks on the face of it comparible? That’s not to condone pepper spraying kids for example but it seems pretty obvious that bottle necking the crowd further away from the crowd saved what could have been an absolute cluster fuck at the gate. The second bit and I really can’t wrap by bonce around this one. Say as a Scotland fan or a Stoke fan my team had a history steeped in the tragic loss of life at a football venue caused via crushing would either of those fan bases put up with fans going in with dodgy tickets, ticketless, bunking in 2 at a time? It appears accepted as part of their ethos and culture whilst simultaneously seeking exoneration of any complicity in the outcomes here at all. Whether the police or the fans are more at fault than one another is open to debate but I really can't see how either could paint themselves as entirely faultless. Unless UEFA, the police and fans learn collectively this will just happen again and next time there may well be deaths involved.
Seems obvious, based on what?
A three minute read ...
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Post by tommycarlsberg on May 31, 2022 22:33:32 GMT
Wasn’t going to open this thread again but my word, one individual is making a right pleb of themselves.
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Post by noustie on May 31, 2022 22:53:58 GMT
There’s two things for me. Firstly the police have had issues obviously but on the other hand what happens if they didn’t take action or worse they made a similar fuck up as Hillsborough and pushed fans on as the situations with only a few gates open looks on the face of it comparible? That’s not to condone pepper spraying kids for example but it seems pretty obvious that bottle necking the crowd further away from the crowd saved what could have been an absolute cluster fuck at the gate. The second bit and I really can’t wrap by bonce around this one. Say as a Scotland fan or a Stoke fan my team had a history steeped in the tragic loss of life at a football venue caused via crushing would either of those fan bases put up with fans going in with dodgy tickets, ticketless, bunking in 2 at a time? It appears accepted as part of their ethos and culture whilst simultaneously seeking exoneration of any complicity in the outcomes here at all. Whether the police or the fans are more at fault than one another is open to debate but I really can't see how either could paint themselves as entirely faultless. Unless UEFA, the police and fans learn collectively this will just happen again and next time there may well be deaths involved. Seems obvious, based on what? A three minute read ...
Based on nobody dying pretty obviously in fairness- if the bottlenecks aren't there to slow folk down what happens at the gates? It's the geezers's second worst experience for that reason. Again it doesn't exonerate the police in what is obviously a cock up but it could have been a lot worse. Fans accepting zero responsibility isn't going to help and is an accident waiting to happen again despite the biased ramblings of their fan base twitter accounts and media sycophants; same applies to the French authorities slopey shoulders; same applies to UEFA. Everything is denigrating into partisanship as usual whereas the cause is quite evidently nuanced. The only definite for me is that could have been a shit load worse. Following on from this and the European championship final though there's going to be another Hillsborough unless this is collectively fixed.
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Post by Gods on May 31, 2022 23:09:12 GMT
I still think it is odd that Stade de France has been open for a quarter of a century now and nothing has gone wrong until the weekend.
I was in the stadium only 8 short weeks ago for the climax of the 6-nations rugby where France beat England and it could have sold out 100 times over and it all worked like clockwork.
It will work fine for the rugby World Cup in 2023 and for the Olympic Games the year after that.
So is the difference the police reaction to english football fans or the presence of ungodly numbers of dickheads without tickets hoping to wing it? My guess is both, but I have zero evidence of that, only the fact that I walk around with my eyes open and I know what goes down.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 31, 2022 23:17:15 GMT
Seems obvious, based on what? A three minute read ...
Based on nobody dying pretty obviously in fairness- if the bottlenecks aren't there to slow folk down what happens at the gates? It's the geezers's second worst experience for that reason. Again it doesn't exonerate the police in what is obviously a cock up but it could have been a lot worse. Fans accepting zero responsibility isn't going to help and is an accident waiting to happen again despite the biased ramblings of their fan base twitter accounts and media sycophants; same applies to the French authorities slopey shoulders; same applies to UEFA. Everything is denigrating into partisanship as usual whereas the cause is quite evidently nuanced. The only definite for me is that could have been a shit load worse. Following on from this and the European championship final though there's going to be another Hillsborough unless this is collectively fixed. What are fans meant to accept responsibility for? Attending a football game?
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 31, 2022 23:17:33 GMT
Seems obvious, based on what? A three minute read ...
Based on nobody dying pretty obviously in fairness- if the bottlenecks aren't there to slow folk down what happens at the gates? It's the geezers's second worst experience for that reason. Again it doesn't exonerate the police in what is obviously a cock up but it could have been a lot worse. Fans accepting zero responsibility isn't going to help and is an accident waiting to happen again despite the biased ramblings of their fan base twitter accounts and media sycophants; same applies to the French authorities slopey shoulders; same applies to UEFA. Everything is denigrating into partisanship as usual whereas the cause is quite evidently nuanced. The only definite for me is that could have been a shit load worse. Following on from this and the European championship final though there's going to be another Hillsborough unless this is collectively fixed.
Yeah, the fact that it didn't turn into a disaster is almost certainly due to the restraint that the Liverpool fans (due to obvious past experiences) showed, despite huge provocation.
I've always found Henry Winter to be a pretty well balanced and honest journo ...
If you don't have time to watch the full 16 minutes, please scroll to the last minute, where he points out that it's very interesting that EVERY single one of his rivals from other neswpapers who were there and witnessed the events that unfolded, have ALL reached exactly the same conclusion.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 31, 2022 23:19:31 GMT
I still think it is odd that Stade de France has been open for a quarter of a century now and nothing has gone wrong until the weekend. I was in the stadium only 8 short weeks ago for the climax of the 6-nations rugby where France beat England and it could have sold out 100 times over and it all worked like clockwork. It will work fine for the rugby World Cup in 2023 and for the Olympic Games the year after that. So is the difference the police reaction to english football fans or the presence of ungodly numbers of dickheads without tickets hoping to wing it? My guess is both, but I have zero evidence of that, only the fact that I walk around with my eyes open and I know what goes down. The difference is, as I've pointed out before on this thread, they can brutalise the football public without fear of recriminations.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 31, 2022 23:21:22 GMT
I still think it is odd that Stade de France has been open for a quarter of a century now and nothing has gone wrong until the weekend.I was in the stadium only 8 short weeks ago for the climax of the 6-nations rugby where France beat England and it could have sold out 100 times over and it all worked like clockwork. It will work fine for the rugby World Cup in 2023 and for the Olympic Games the year after that. So is the difference the police reaction to english football fans or the presence of ungodly numbers of dickheads without tickets hoping to wing it? My guess is both, but I have zero evidence of that, only the fact that I walk around with my eyes open and I know what goes down.
Have you even researched this?
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Post by JoeinOz on May 31, 2022 23:28:16 GMT
Based on nobody dying pretty obviously in fairness- if the bottlenecks aren't there to slow folk down what happens at the gates? It's the geezers's second worst experience for that reason. Again it doesn't exonerate the police in what is obviously a cock up but it could have been a lot worse. Fans accepting zero responsibility isn't going to help and is an accident waiting to happen again despite the biased ramblings of their fan base twitter accounts and media sycophants; same applies to the French authorities slopey shoulders; same applies to UEFA. Everything is denigrating into partisanship as usual whereas the cause is quite evidently nuanced. The only definite for me is that could have been a shit load worse. Following on from this and the European championship final though there's going to be another Hillsborough unless this is collectively fixed. Yeah, the fact that it didn't turn into a disaster is almost certainly due to the restraint that the Liverpool fans (due to obvious past experiences) showed, despite huge provocation. I've always found Henry Winter to be a pretty well balanced and honest journo ... If you don't have time to watch the full 16 minutes, please scroll to the last minute, where he points out that it's very interesting that EVERY single one of his rivals from other neswpapers who were there and witnessed the events that unfolded, have ALL reached exactly the same conclusion.
That's why this is so clearly the fault of authorities. Everyone has the same account of the incidents. Journalists and supporters of both teams And I think some people's dislike of the Liverpool team is playing a part in their viewpoint. It isn't about dangerous disorganisation for some. It's about Alan Hansen kicking Ian Painter in 1983 or something.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on May 31, 2022 23:44:24 GMT
I still think it is odd that Stade de France has been open for a quarter of a century now and nothing has gone wrong until the weekend. I was in the stadium only 8 short weeks ago for the climax of the 6-nations rugby where France beat England and it could have sold out 100 times over and it all worked like clockwork. It will work fine for the rugby World Cup in 2023 and for the Olympic Games the year after that. So is the difference the police reaction to english football fans or the presence of ungodly numbers of dickheads without tickets hoping to wing it? My guess is both, but I have zero evidence of that, only the fact that I walk around with my eyes open and I know what goes down. This is beyond daft. Can you imagine the uproar if all the middle-class, Home Counties crowd were treated the same as working class football fans?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 1, 2022 0:08:37 GMT
Yeah, the fact that it didn't turn into a disaster is almost certainly due to the restraint that the Liverpool fans (due to obvious past experiences) showed, despite huge provocation. I've always found Henry Winter to be a pretty well balanced and honest journo ... If you don't have time to watch the full 16 minutes, please scroll to the last minute, where he points out that it's very interesting that EVERY single one of his rivals from other neswpapers who were there and witnessed the events that unfolded, have ALL reached exactly the same conclusion.
That's why this is so clearly the fault of authorities. Everyone has the same account of the incidents. Journalists and supporters of both teams And I think some people's dislike of the Liverpool team is playing a part in their viewpoint. It isn't about dangerous disorganisation for some. It's about Alan Hansen kicking Ian Painter in 1983 or something.
Indeed Joe, it's classic confirmation bias, they're eager to hang this on the Liverpool fans because it fits with their already established prejudices.
This mindless tribalism and rampant desire to believe lies over clear facts will result, at some point, in another football stadium disaster, and next time it could be any one of us.
This desire to believe lies and protect the guilty, then to heap the blame onto the victims is a recipe for disaster. It plays into the hands of the incompetent and the corrupt, and it leads to yet more complacency. We all know where that eventually leads.
This willingness to believe only the lies, whilst discarding the truth because it doesn't fit the prejudice simply enables the incompetent to get away with it, and this will come at great cost at some point further down the line. One day, it might very well be us or our loved ones caught up in a terrible disaster, and we'll wonder why it was ever allowed to happen.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 1, 2022 1:24:27 GMT
That's why this is so clearly the fault of authorities. Everyone has the same account of the incidents. Journalists and supporters of both teams And I think some people's dislike of the Liverpool team is playing a part in their viewpoint. It isn't about dangerous disorganisation for some. It's about Alan Hansen kicking Ian Painter in 1983 or something. Indeed Joe, it's classic confirmation bias, they're eager to hang this on the Liverpool fans because it fits with their already established prejudices. This mindless tribalism and rampant desire to believe lies over clear facts will result, at some point, in another football stadium disaster, and next time it could be any one of us. This desire to believe lies and protect the guilty, then to heap the blame onto the victims is a recipe for disaster. It plays into the hands of the incompetent and the corrupt, and it leads to yet more complacency. We all know where that eventually leads. This willingness to believe only the lies, whilst discarding the truth because it doesn't fit the prejudice simply enables the incompetent to get away with it, and this will come at great cost at some point further down the line. One day, it might very well be us or our loved ones caught up in a terrible disaster, and we'll wonder why it was ever allowed to happen.
Yep. It could've been us. It was us. The Barnsley incident I refer to on this thread. It was a few months later we realised how dangerous it actually was. Had that become deadly there'd be people across the world dismissing Stoke fans as thugs. Because they'd have believed gutter press lies. After Paris there's been no gutter press lies. So some had to search out someone who's lies fit their mindset. And they do. And then cling to it like super glue.
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Post by Scouse on Jun 1, 2022 2:36:04 GMT
So is it fair to say your ongoing defence of police brutality here is based on a predetermined prejudice against Liverpool fans? Not so much Liverpool fans as Scousers generally. Having dealt with people from most parts of the country and overseas in my experience they've a tendency to be a massive pain in the arse. It's not PC but comes from real life experience so I won't apologise for it I’ve kept off this thread until now firstly because of the inevitable spewing out of bile from some quarters towards Liverpool fans and indeed people from my region in general…. to those who’ve posted in a more balanced manner or with true context I send my genuine thanks Secondly because my own feelings and emotions are at present all over the place , having cared for and seen my mum pass away on Monday after 4 plus years of dementia including the last 9 long months of pallative care when back in September I was informed she had just days not weeks and certainly not months to live…I include that not for sympathy or empathy but for context if my aghast might be OTT and why my reactions might be defensive in the extreme. However , I find the above post as one of the most offensive posts I’ve EVER read on this board .. I’m not looking for nor seeking an apology ..I wouldn’t accept one even if one was offered .your expressed views Sir or Madame are that offensive. im not perfect , far from it , the same is true of the vast majority of Scousers , but I like to think I and we are not so dissimilar from many millions if not billions of other people on this planet.. ..we really don’t grow two heads or anything once past junction 6 on the M62. In life and my travels I’ve met and dealt with all kinds of people , they’ve come from the entire range of social , educational , monetary , religious and academic demographics. Including people from all kinds of backgrounds who’ve tried to kill me ( literally ) to people who saved my life ( literally ) from people who’ve tried to rob me to people who’ve shared with me their riches be it in pure monetary terms or the unmeasurable but even more valuable quality of time , knowledge and friendship. in life I’ve always treated and seen , or at least tried , to see people as individuals , not least when it comes to throwing insults As I say my emotions are an absolute mess at present but I’m as saddened as I’ve ever been to read such an attack in purely general terms by the above post Gutted
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jun 1, 2022 4:51:14 GMT
Not so much Liverpool fans as Scousers generally. Having dealt with people from most parts of the country and overseas in my experience they've a tendency to be a massive pain in the arse. It's not PC but comes from real life experience so I won't apologise for it I’ve kept off this thread until now firstly because of the inevitable spewing out of bile from some quarters towards Liverpool fans and indeed people from my region in general…. to those who’ve posted in a more balanced manner or with true context I send my genuine thanks Secondly because my own feelings and emotions are at present all over the place , having cared for and seen my mum pass away on Monday after 4 plus years of dementia including the last 9 long months of pallative care when back in September I was informed she had just days not weeks and certainly not months to live…I include that not for sympathy or empathy but for context if my aghast might be OTT and why my reactions might be defensive in the extreme. However , I find the above post as one of the most offensive posts I’ve EVER read on this board .. I’m not looking for nor seeking an apology ..I wouldn’t accept one even if one was offered .your expressed views Sir or Madame are that offensive. im not perfect , far from it , the same is true of the vast majority of Scousers , but I like to think I and we are not so dissimilar from many millions if not billions of other people on this planet.. ..we really don’t grow two heads or anything once past junction 6 on the M62. In life and my travels I’ve met and dealt with all kinds of people , they’ve come from the entire range of social , educational , monetary , religious and academic demographics. Including people from all kinds of backgrounds who’ve tried to kill me ( literally ) to people who saved my life ( literally ) from people who’ve tried to rob me to people who’ve shared with me their riches be it in pure monetary terms or the unmeasurable but even more valuable quality of time , knowledge and friendship. in life I’ve always treated and seen , or at least tried , to see people as individuals , not least when it comes to throwing insults As I say my emotions are an absolute mess at present but I’m as saddened as I’ve ever been to read such an attack in purely general terms by the above post Gutted Sorry for your loss Scouse. Most of my family are from Liverpool and I completely agree with you. My experience with Scousers has been incredibly positive and I'm in Liverpool every other weekend. Some people on here think they know it all after visiting the Cavern and Albert Dock 🤣. Joking apart - The amount of ignorance on here is quite astonishing. I'm guessing it's down to a complete lack of exposure, combined with a very low IQ. Stay strong and don't let the mindless fools get to you. We'll be with you!
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Post by werrington on Jun 1, 2022 4:57:53 GMT
Not so much Liverpool fans as Scousers generally. Having dealt with people from most parts of the country and overseas in my experience they've a tendency to be a massive pain in the arse. It's not PC but comes from real life experience so I won't apologise for it I’ve kept off this thread until now firstly because of the inevitable spewing out of bile from some quarters towards Liverpool fans and indeed people from my region in general…. to those who’ve posted in a more balanced manner or with true context I send my genuine thanks Secondly because my own feelings and emotions are at present all over the place , having cared for and seen my mum pass away on Monday after 4 plus years of dementia including the last 9 long months of pallative care when back in September I was informed she had just days not weeks and certainly not months to live…I include that not for sympathy or empathy but for context if my aghast might be OTT and why my reactions might be defensive in the extreme. However , I find the above post as one of the most offensive posts I’ve EVER read on this board .. I’m not looking for nor seeking an apology ..I wouldn’t accept one even if one was offered .your expressed views Sir or Madame are that offensive. im not perfect , far from it , the same is true of the vast majority of Scousers , but I like to think I and we are not so dissimilar from many millions if not billions of other people on this planet.. ..we really don’t grow two heads or anything once past junction 6 on the M62. In life and my travels I’ve met and dealt with all kinds of people , they’ve come from the entire range of social , educational , monetary , religious and academic demographics. Including people from all kinds of backgrounds who’ve tried to kill me ( literally ) to people who saved my life ( literally ) from people who’ve tried to rob me to people who’ve shared with me their riches be it in pure monetary terms or the unmeasurable but even more valuable quality of time , knowledge and friendship. in life I’ve always treated and seen , or at least tried , to see people as individuals , not least when it comes to throwing insults As I say my emotions are an absolute mess at present but I’m as saddened as I’ve ever been to read such an attack in purely general terms by the above post Gutted Brilliant post and sincere condolences mate A city close to my heart mate for 35 years as my wife and 70% of my family ( mostly blues ) are from and live there I frequent it every week sometimes twice a week and it pisses me off when people comment on it with nothing more than lazy journalism and pre conceived agendas I have to take a step back very often on here but if this stuff about scousers was said about blacks and Asians etc it would be rightly classed as offensive but it continues to get accepted as the normal and believe me when people like myself seriously consider deleting my account you’ve got problems and that’s nothing to do with the fantastic admin who do a superb job in trying circumstances with a huge amount of traffic, it’s the ignorance of people ( grown adults ) posting on here and all backed up with numerous “likes” The levels of intelligence are utterly beyond belief and beyond embarrassing
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Post by knype on Jun 1, 2022 6:01:08 GMT
Sheff play off game, port vale play off game, crystal Palace Vierra etc numerous occurences at the back end of the season. English football fans reinforcing their reputation for shit behavior that has the police hyped up wherever they go. Nothing at the Champions League final though...
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