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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 8:01:16 GMT
Why were there very few problems with Madrid fans? I suspect, from what a former UEFA person on Sky News alluded to earlier today, the French police targeted Liverpool for 'historic reasons'. Quite what he meant by that is anyone's guess, but presumably not the 30 years campaign by the Justice families to prove negligence by SYP. Probably targeted them because they were English. English fans hadn’t exactly covered themselves in glory in the period leading up to the final. You have to accept that that type of behaviour is in peoples minds when dealing with English football fans. It’s wrong but you can see why it happens.
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Post by stokecitydom on May 31, 2022 8:04:39 GMT
There were problems with the Real Madrid end too Very few, relatively? I'm just genuinely curious. The rugby union World Cup will be played in this stadium next year and the Olympic Games and you just know they will pass off without incident. So either something pushed the police over the edge or they woke up of a morning thinking today I'll pepper spray some English football fans. I can't help thinking the gilet jaunes protests are somewhere in this mix, the tactics they deploy there. But something flipped a switch. In the press conference in France yesterday one of the government officials said “anticipating a lot of hooligans from across the channel” so this looks like the tone was set early on. From the footage I’ve seen, a lot of those jumping the fences or causing trouble in the Liverpool end don’t look like Liverpool fans. They look more like locals.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 8:19:47 GMT
There were problems with the Real Madrid end too Very few, relatively? I'm just genuinely curious. The rugby union World Cup will be played in this stadium next year and the Olympic Games and you just know they will pass off without incident. So either something pushed the police over the edge or they woke up of a morning thinking today I'll pepper spray some English football fans. I can't help thinking the gilet jaunes protests are somewhere in this mix, the tactics they deploy there. But something flipped a switch. Can’t help but think that the police will move towards similar tactics over here. With the outlawing of disruptive protest.
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Post by richardparker on May 31, 2022 8:43:08 GMT
Were you attacked and tier gassed by the police that night? And was that the fault of the Liverpool supporters? The problem with you and many others is your preconceived perception of Saturday night and what you wanted to be true about it just isn’t holding up is it with the media telling us in unity what really happened It’s pathetic in reality The anti-Scouse rhetoric on this board is frightening. A working class city much like our own (it’s actually light years ahead of ours) and there’s so many that want to vilify them at any stage. You’d all do well to take your nose out the Daily Mail and Sun and think for yourself you thick twats. Spot on! Well said my friend. I despair from afar (Liverpool in fact) at how my fellow pottery folk get sucked in to such hate-mongering antics. I've lived here 34 years. I don't like the football clubs of Liverpool or Everton. Many Liverpool supporters really do my nut in for a host of different reasons. However, there's no getting away from the fact that in Paris, the event management for the final was woeful in the extreme and ordinary Liverpool supporters were treated abhorrently. Anyone that thinks they deserved it is a prick.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 8:55:51 GMT
The anti-Scouse rhetoric on this board is frightening. A working class city much like our own (it’s actually light years ahead of ours) and there’s so many that want to vilify them at any stage. You’d all do well to take your nose out the Daily Mail and Sun and think for yourself you thick twats. Spot on! Well said my friend. I despair from afar (Liverpool in fact) at how my fellow pottery folk get sucked in to such hate-mongering antics. I've lived here 34 years. I don't like the football clubs of Liverpool or Everton. Many Liverpool supporters really do my nut in for a host of different reasons. However, there's no getting away from the fact that in Paris, the event management for the final was woeful in the extreme and ordinary Liverpool supporters were treated abhorrently. Anyone that thinks they deserved it is a prick. Thinking they deserve it and having an understanding of why these things happen are two totally different things. There is imo a Scouse trait of challenging authority and it’s something that is just not tolerated in many other countries like it is here. That would be my take on why these things happen far more often to English football fans and even more so Liverpool fans abroad. When you go abroad you don’t take the British approach of policing by consent with you. You’re often dealing with militarised police a few incidents and you all become the enemy.
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Post by Davef on May 31, 2022 9:06:17 GMT
There were problems with the Real Madrid end too Very few, relatively? I'm just genuinely curious. The rugby union World Cup will be played in this stadium next year and the Olympic Games and you just know they will pass off without incident. So either something pushed the police over the edge or they woke up of a morning thinking today I'll pepper spray some English football fans. I can't help thinking the gilet jaunes protests are somewhere in this mix, the tactics they deploy there. But something flipped a switch. You've only got to see how many Police forces in Europe, and particularly France, have dealt with who they consider to be "undesirables" over the past couple of years to realise that you're not exactly dealing with salt of the earth types here.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on May 31, 2022 9:12:35 GMT
Spot on! Well said my friend. I despair from afar (Liverpool in fact) at how my fellow pottery folk get sucked in to such hate-mongering antics. I've lived here 34 years. I don't like the football clubs of Liverpool or Everton. Many Liverpool supporters really do my nut in for a host of different reasons. However, there's no getting away from the fact that in Paris, the event management for the final was woeful in the extreme and ordinary Liverpool supporters were treated abhorrently. Anyone that thinks they deserved it is a prick. Thinking they deserve it and having an understanding of why these things happen are two totally different things. There is imo a Scouse trait of challenging authority and it’s something that is just not tolerated in many other countries like it is here. That would be my take on why these things happen far more often to English football fans and even more so Liverpool fans abroad. When you go abroad you don’t take the British approach of policing by consent with you. You’re often dealing with militarised police a few incidents and you all become the enemy. It's a new day fella, move on.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 9:16:46 GMT
Thinking they deserve it and having an understanding of why these things happen are two totally different things. There is imo a Scouse trait of challenging authority and it’s something that is just not tolerated in many other countries like it is here. That would be my take on why these things happen far more often to English football fans and even more so Liverpool fans abroad. When you go abroad you don’t take the British approach of policing by consent with you. You’re often dealing with militarised police a few incidents and you all become the enemy. It's a new day fella, move on. Oh yeah forgot to add challenge authority and whine like fuck.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on May 31, 2022 9:24:24 GMT
It's a new day fella, move on. Oh yeah forgot to add challenge authority and whine like fuck. You're the one who's still whining ya weirdo
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Post by jokker on May 31, 2022 10:26:58 GMT
Would not any responsible English parent have to ask themselves if a football final is a safe environment to bring a young child to? It's only a year ago, less in fact, that socalled English supporters ruined the experience for neutral goers in the semifinal and final of the euros. Whoever they are they will always turn up to ruin the party. However small a minority they are you'd have to say they always succeed, regretably. d epends how young you are talking I suppose.I think football has been a bit more family friendly myself the last twenty years and think if you want to avoid trouble generally you can.always gonna be a bit of trouble at matches but not like the final last year.i wasnt there but seems to have been poorly organised that.the lady calling I think her lad was about 12 or 13 she said which Seems perfectly acceptable age to me to take to a match In your own message you referred to a woman with a young child...
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Post by jokker on May 31, 2022 10:28:33 GMT
What a pile of shit you're talking there. Plenty to dig some Liverpool supporters on but taking a kid to a match is certainly not one of them. agree completely ,why shouldn't a parent be able to take their son or daughter to a football match They should, but they have to be aware of the risk they might be taking.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 31, 2022 10:36:13 GMT
There were problems with the Real Madrid end too Very few, relatively? I'm just genuinely curious. The rugby union World Cup will be played in this stadium next year and the Olympic Games and you just know they will pass off without incident. So either something pushed the police over the edge or they woke up of a morning thinking today I'll pepper spray some English football fans. I can't help thinking the gilet jaunes protests are somewhere in this mix, the tactics they deploy there. But something flipped a switch. What flipped the switch was knowing there wouldn't be repercussions. It was former Deputy Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police John Stalker in the 80s who said he was aware that many police knew that football matches were one time they were “Let off the leash”. That applies on a global scale now. Yes there's been people who've publicly questioned it all but while people defend their bullying and violence it'll contunue
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Post by scfc75 on May 31, 2022 10:45:59 GMT
There were problems with the Real Madrid end too Very few, relatively? I'm just genuinely curious. The rugby union World Cup will be played in this stadium next year and the Olympic Games and you just know they will pass off without incident. So either something pushed the police over the edge or they woke up of a morning thinking today I'll pepper spray some English football fans. I can't help thinking the gilet jaunes protests are somewhere in this mix, the tactics they deploy there. But something flipped a switch. Imagine the global backlash if spectators going to see the olympics get pepper sprayed. For football fans, it’s basically ‘meh’.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 10:53:03 GMT
Very few, relatively? I'm just genuinely curious. The rugby union World Cup will be played in this stadium next year and the Olympic Games and you just know they will pass off without incident. So either something pushed the police over the edge or they woke up of a morning thinking today I'll pepper spray some English football fans. I can't help thinking the gilet jaunes protests are somewhere in this mix, the tactics they deploy there. But something flipped a switch. Imagine the global backlash if spectators going to see the olympics get pepper sprayed. For football fans, it’s basically ‘meh’. Has there ever been crowd trouble at the olympics? It's unfair on the majority of football fans but as long as we keep seeing football violence it will give them a free pass.
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Post by scfc75 on May 31, 2022 11:40:32 GMT
Imagine the global backlash if spectators going to see the olympics get pepper sprayed. For football fans, it’s basically ‘meh’. Has there ever been crowd trouble at the olympics? It's unfair on the majority of football fans but as long as we keep seeing football violence it will give them a free pass. I doubt it, but the clips I’ve seen of the Liverpool fans getting sprayed didn’t seem like they were causing trouble either.
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Post by misterj on May 31, 2022 11:49:54 GMT
One example of how left wing Liverpool sees itself (obvs this has nothing to do with Paris Police tactics ….. it’s just providing a bit of background/context) One of the big unions was holding a charity event in Liverpool - several comedians etc - out of the blue John Bishop turned up to show support etc but (a reliable source told me who was present) he was booed and jeered for being a ‘sellout’ and ‘part of the establishment’ so on the mic he told them to F*** off, I’m going home.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 11:51:02 GMT
Has there ever been crowd trouble at the olympics? It's unfair on the majority of football fans but as long as we keep seeing football violence it will give them a free pass. I doubt it, but the clips I’ve seen of the Liverpool fans getting sprayed didn’t seem like they were causing trouble either. I've seen it too and don't dispute it but you've never seen crowd trouble at the olympics, yet we've seen numerous instances at the back end of the season of English football fans partaking in anti social behavior and violence. Gives you your answer to why they're percieved and handled differently.
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Post by noustie on May 31, 2022 11:52:47 GMT
There’s two things for me. Firstly the police have had issues obviously but on the other hand what happens if they didn’t take action or worse they made a similar fuck up as Hillsborough and pushed fans on as the situations with only a few gates open looks on the face of it comparible? That’s not to condone pepper spraying kids for example but it seems pretty obvious that bottle necking the crowd further away from the crowd saved what could have been an absolute cluster fuck at the gate.
The second bit and I really can’t wrap by bonce around this one. Say as a Scotland fan or a Stoke fan my team had a history steeped in the tragic loss of life at a football venue caused via crushing would either of those fan bases put up with fans going in with dodgy tickets, ticketless, bunking in 2 at a time? It appears accepted as part of their ethos and culture whilst simultaneously seeking exoneration of any complicity in the outcomes here at all. Whether the police or the fans are more at fault than one another is open to debate but I really can't see how either could paint themselves as entirely faultless.
Unless UEFA, the police and fans learn collectively this will just happen again and next time there may well be deaths involved.
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Post by Davef on May 31, 2022 12:01:14 GMT
Short Twitter thread...
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 12:46:51 GMT
There’s two things for me. Firstly the police have had issues obviously but on the other hand what happens if they didn’t take action or worse they made a similar fuck up as Hillsborough and pushed fans on as the situations with only a few gates open looks on the face of it comparible? That’s not to condone pepper spraying kids for example but it seems pretty obvious that bottle necking the crowd further away from the crowd saved what could have been an absolute cluster fuck at the gate. The second bit and I really can’t wrap by bonce around this one. Say as a Scotland fan or a Stoke fan my team had a history steeped in the tragic loss of life at a football venue caused via crushing would either of those fan bases put up with fans going in with dodgy tickets, ticketless, bunking in 2 at a time? It appears accepted as part of their ethos and culture whilst simultaneously seeking exoneration of any complicity in the outcomes here at all. Whether the police or the fans are more at fault than one another is open to debate but I really can't see how either could paint themselves as entirely faultless. Unless UEFA, the police and fans learn collectively this will just happen again and next time there may well be deaths involved. You'll notice that some of the main ones to complain on this thread are ones who on the thread about vale winning promotion via the playoffs don't think you're a proper football fan unless you take part in the tribal, goading and hatred.
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Post by toppercorner on May 31, 2022 12:53:55 GMT
i was working with a guy from liverpool yesterday, and he was a guest of playstation for the final. He said none of the vip's (and their respected french counterparts at the company) could get in without being teargassed too. He said his son was allowed in but not them (same tickets), and it became a case of who you spoke to on the turnstiles and whether they'd let you in or not, of their own accord.
They eventually got in, but he said it was just unbelievably badly organised.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 31, 2022 13:03:23 GMT
There’s two things for me. Firstly the police have had issues obviously but on the other hand what happens if they didn’t take action or worse they made a similar fuck up as Hillsborough and pushed fans on as the situations with only a few gates open looks on the face of it comparible? That’s not to condone pepper spraying kids for example but it seems pretty obvious that bottle necking the crowd further away from the crowd saved what could have been an absolute cluster fuck at the gate. The second bit and I really can’t wrap by bonce around this one. Say as a Scotland fan or a Stoke fan my team had a history steeped in the tragic loss of life at a football venue caused via crushing would either of those fan bases put up with fans going in with dodgy tickets, ticketless, bunking in 2 at a time? It appears accepted as part of their ethos and culture whilst simultaneously seeking exoneration of any complicity in the outcomes here at all. Whether the police or the fans are more at fault than one another is open to debate but I really can't see how either could paint themselves as entirely faultless. Unless UEFA, the police and fans learn collectively this will just happen again and next time there may well be deaths involved. You'll notice that some of the main ones to complain on this thread are ones who on the thread about vale winning promotion via the playoffs don't think you're a proper football fan unless you take part in the tribal, goading and hatred. The two things aren't relatable. Opposing police brutality bears no relevance to who you do or don't want to win a game of football
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Post by kaney78 on May 31, 2022 14:00:59 GMT
d epends how young you are talking I suppose.I think football has been a bit more family friendly myself the last twenty years and think if you want to avoid trouble generally you can.always gonna be a bit of trouble at matches but not like the final last year.i wasnt there but seems to have been poorly organised that.the lady calling I think her lad was about 12 or 13 she said which Seems perfectly acceptable age to me to take to a match In your own message you referred to a woman with a young child... I did yeah,my bad lol think my dad took me the amateur football when I was younger and starting taking me Stoke about 10 or 11
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 14:07:17 GMT
You'll notice that some of the main ones to complain on this thread are ones who on the thread about vale winning promotion via the playoffs don't think you're a proper football fan unless you take part in the tribal, goading and hatred. The two things aren't relatable. Opposing police brutality bears no relevance to who you do or don't want to win a game of football So if you don't take part in tribalism, goading and hatred you don't want your team to win a game of football. Bottom line, a higher percentage of people behave like pricks at football matches, police are conscious of this and are prone to over react. So if less people behaved like pricks just because they're attending a football match far less of these incidents would occur. Police would be far less wound up and expecting trouble which is when you are likely to get such over reaction because they're human beings. anti social behavior and violence are synonymous with football because of the nature of some football supporters believing it's perfectly normal for rival supporters to behave like warring tribes yet this desn't seem to be an issue in any other sport and the biggest whingers about the police brutality seem to be the ones who think the former is perfectly normal.
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Post by Gods on May 31, 2022 14:21:29 GMT
Very few, relatively? I'm just genuinely curious. The rugby union World Cup will be played in this stadium next year and the Olympic Games and you just know they will pass off without incident. So either something pushed the police over the edge or they woke up of a morning thinking today I'll pepper spray some English football fans. I can't help thinking the gilet jaunes protests are somewhere in this mix, the tactics they deploy there. But something flipped a switch. If you look at Paul tweets above you’ll see why they flipped St Denis is a very poor lawless area of Paris in which the police often won’t go into and you only have to get the stories of after the game also to get the point along with locals causing chaos and spying their chance Couple that with disgraceful behaviour in which they treated peaceful England fans there the last time we played and you’d see my point Wake up and open your eyes mate Waking up is exactly what I am trying to do. I haven't come to any answers, just mulling over the possibilities and trying to arrive at the rationale for why who did what!
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Post by sheds1862 on May 31, 2022 14:35:39 GMT
Very few, relatively? I'm just genuinely curious. The rugby union World Cup will be played in this stadium next year and the Olympic Games and you just know they will pass off without incident. So either something pushed the police over the edge or they woke up of a morning thinking today I'll pepper spray some English football fans. I can't help thinking the gilet jaunes protests are somewhere in this mix, the tactics they deploy there. But something flipped a switch. In the press conference in France yesterday one of the government officials said “anticipating a lot of hooligans from across the channel” so this looks like the tone was set early on. From the footage I’ve seen, a lot of those jumping the fences or causing trouble in the Liverpool end don’t look like Liverpool fans. They look more like locals. What does a ' Liverpool fan ' look like exactly? When I see cameras panning the Kop there are turban wearing supporters, Asians,black and white. Other than a 1980's Harry Enfield moustache what makes them be a 'Liverpool fan ' ?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 14:40:37 GMT
In the press conference in France yesterday one of the government officials said “anticipating a lot of hooligans from across the channel” so this looks like the tone was set early on. From the footage I’ve seen, a lot of those jumping the fences or causing trouble in the Liverpool end don’t look like Liverpool fans. They look more like locals. What does a ' Liverpool fan ' look like exactly? When I see cameras panning the Kop there are turban wearing supporters, Asians,black and white. Other than a 1980's Harry Enfield moustache what makes them be a 'Liverpool fan ' ? It's more audio than visual. Just get someone in a position of authority to tell them what to do and they'll get all trappy and make a huge fuss instead of just doing it.
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Post by scfc75 on May 31, 2022 15:42:50 GMT
In the press conference in France yesterday one of the government officials said “anticipating a lot of hooligans from across the channel” so this looks like the tone was set early on. From the footage I’ve seen, a lot of those jumping the fences or causing trouble in the Liverpool end don’t look like Liverpool fans. They look more like locals. What does a ' Liverpool fan ' look like exactly? When I see cameras panning the Kop there are turban wearing supporters, Asians,black and white. Other than a 1980's Harry Enfield moustache what makes them be a 'Liverpool fan ' ? The fact that they’re on the Kop?
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Post by sheds1862 on May 31, 2022 15:45:32 GMT
What does a ' Liverpool fan ' look like exactly? When I see cameras panning the Kop there are turban wearing supporters, Asians,black and white. Other than a 1980's Harry Enfield moustache what makes them be a 'Liverpool fan ' ? The fact that they’re on the Kop? Eh ? They were saying the ones scaling the fences looked like locals not Liverpool. I was questioning what does a Liverpool fan look like
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 15:48:18 GMT
The fact that they’re on the Kop? Eh ? They were saying the ones scaling the fences looked like locals not Liverpool. I was questioning what does a Liverpool fan look like Ever heard that Arctic monkeys song "Scummy man, looks like he'd rob you if he can" A bit like that lol.
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