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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 27, 2022 10:36:05 GMT
Looks great going forward with the ball at his feet, but those defensive stats worry me. Wing back seems like the jack of all trades position. If you rank poorly as a defender in league 2, will you be doing well in the Championship? You’d imagine his attacking stats would be less impressive in the jump up the divisions as well. Being so young is obviously a benefit, but would it mean we would need a stop gap there while he matures? Is there an argument that if you're playing a 3-5-2/3-4-3 that's going to achieve anything, you just accept that your wing backs' primary function is attacking and make sure your back three and midfield has the tools to cover for them? Potentially, yes. Again, I’d still worry that his attacking stats will take time to be replicated in this league, while his already weak defensive work will be exploited further. Ideally, we’d find a right footed Tymon. Direct, pretty physical, quick and a decent cross. He doesn’t get skinned too often or leave us too exposed playing left wing back. If we had an all out attacking wing back, we’d need faster centre backs on the flanks than Taylor/Forrester (in my opinion) and someone dedicated to never going past the half way line in midfield.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 27, 2022 10:36:19 GMT
Out most important priority must be a new manager , look at Forest , that’s what happens when you get a decent one in instead the inept one we have And Wilder, look at Wilder. EDIT I've just been asked to stop using him as a yardstick since they won 2 of their last 10 games. Apologies folks.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 10:37:32 GMT
I still think O'Neill would like to go 433 but just doesn't trust Smith and to a lesser extent Tymon in a four.
Why sign JPB otherwise? We have good options in the wide forward areas JPB, Campbell and DWP but the current 352 doesn't suit them.
So for me top priority is two good fullbacks to allow us to switch systems and utilise our wide attackers. Easier said than done though.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 27, 2022 10:40:10 GMT
It's one of the most important roles in the team and I don't think Sparrow has played one minute of first team league football this term, which doesn't suggest to me he's that high up in the thinking. Great if he gets opportunities but we can't hang our hat on him entirely yet surely? No nor would I want to but I think either we'll keep Smith short term or look for a 25-28 year old who won't be blocking the route to the first team for Sparrow who has been name checked a couple of times recently as a young player the management want to introduce sooner rather than later. I'd like to see someone younger in the role ideally as they're high energy, demanding positions that demand a real hunger and dynamism.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 27, 2022 10:41:28 GMT
Is there an argument that if you're playing a 3-5-2/3-4-3 that's going to achieve anything, you just accept that your wing backs' primary function is attacking and make sure your back three and midfield has the tools to cover for them? Potentially, yes. Again, I’d still worry that his attacking stats will take time to be replicated in this league, while his already weak defensive work will be exploited further. Ideally, we’d find a right footed Tymon. Direct, pretty physical, quick and a decent cross. He doesn’t get skinned too often or leave us too exposed playing left wing back. If we had an all out attacking wing back, we’d need faster centre backs on the flanks than Taylor/Forrester (in my opinion) and someone dedicated to never going past the half way line in midfield. I'd be fine with that tbh.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 27, 2022 10:52:40 GMT
I still think O'Neill would like to go 433 but just doesn't trust Smith and to a lesser extent Tymon in a four. Why sign JPB otherwise? We have good options in the wide forward areas JPB, Campbell and DWP but the current 352 doesn't suit them. So for me top priority is two good fullbacks to allow us to switch systems and utilise our wide attackers. Easier said than done though. I'd like to see the formation question put to him before the end of the season, and where he sees us going next season. When we signed Philogene, it definitely looked like he wanted to go back to the 4, and we played 6 games using it immediately after the deadline including the promising Swansea and Forest games where JPB was fantastic) before the Luton debacle prompted another change of heart. What formation we're going to use is going to really dictate our transfer business, and we still aren't 100% sure.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 27, 2022 11:00:13 GMT
I still think O'Neill would like to go 433 but just doesn't trust Smith and to a lesser extent Tymon in a four. Why sign JPB otherwise? We have good options in the wide forward areas JPB, Campbell and DWP but the current 352 doesn't suit them. So for me top priority is two good fullbacks to allow us to switch systems and utilise our wide attackers. Easier said than done though. I'd like to see the formation question put to him before the end of the season, and where he sees us going next season. When we signed Philogene, it definitely looked like he wanted to go back to the 4, and we played 6 games using it immediately after the deadline including the promising Swansea and Forest games where JPB was fantastic) before the Luton debacle prompted another change of heart. What formation we're going to use is going to really dictate our transfer business, and we still aren't 100% sure. he also pulled his groin in the Luton game and then did his knee straight after..........
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Post by lordb on Apr 27, 2022 11:07:37 GMT
Is there an argument that if you're playing a 3-5-2/3-4-3 that's going to achieve anything, you just accept that your wing backs' primary function is attacking and make sure your back three and midfield has the tools to cover for them? Potentially, yes. Again, I’d still worry that his attacking stats will take time to be replicated in this league, while his already weak defensive work will be exploited further. Ideally, we’d find a right footed Tymon. Direct, pretty physical, quick and a decent cross. He doesn’t get skinned too often or leave us too exposed playing left wing back. If we had an all out attacking wing back, we’d need faster centre backs on the flanks than Taylor/Forrester (in my opinion) and someone dedicated to never going past the half way line in midfield. Souttar,Jageilka,Taylor (& for that matter THB) are all short of pace yes Forrester & Wilmot not quite so much bit of pace in the heart of the defence is missing clearly, can see the concern> however we don't tend to concede chances or goals by pace in behind particularly > we tend to give goals away with bad passing
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Post by lordb on Apr 27, 2022 11:10:41 GMT
I still think O'Neill would like to go 433 but just doesn't trust Smith and to a lesser extent Tymon in a four. Why sign JPB otherwise? We have good options in the wide forward areas JPB, Campbell and DWP but the current 352 doesn't suit them. So for me top priority is two good fullbacks to allow us to switch systems and utilise our wide attackers. Easier said than done though. I'd like to see the formation question put to him before the end of the season, and where he sees us going next season. When we signed Philogene, it definitely looked like he wanted to go back to the 4, and we played 6 games using it immediately after the deadline including the promising Swansea and Forest games where JPB was fantastic) before the Luton debacle prompted another change of heart. What formation we're going to use is going to really dictate our transfer business, and we still aren't 100% sure. best if we can have a squad more than comfortable with at least those two systems minimum one new RB/RWB required
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 27, 2022 11:10:46 GMT
I still think O'Neill would like to go 433 but just doesn't trust Smith and to a lesser extent Tymon in a four. Why sign JPB otherwise? We have good options in the wide forward areas JPB, Campbell and DWP but the current 352 doesn't suit them. So for me top priority is two good fullbacks to allow us to switch systems and utilise our wide attackers. Easier said than done though. I'd like to see the formation question put to him before the end of the season, and where he sees us going next season. When we signed Philogene, it definitely looked like he wanted to go back to the 4, and we played 6 games using it immediately after the deadline including the promising Swansea and Forest games where JPB was fantastic) before the Luton debacle prompted another change of heart. What formation we're going to use is going to really dictate our transfer business, and we still aren't 100% sure. You'd think if the back four was the plan he would have recruited at least one full back in Jan, he seems so haphazard in the transfer market, doesn't give much confidence for the up coming window.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 27, 2022 11:12:14 GMT
I'd like to see the formation question put to him before the end of the season, and where he sees us going next season. When we signed Philogene, it definitely looked like he wanted to go back to the 4, and we played 6 games using it immediately after the deadline including the promising Swansea and Forest games where JPB was fantastic) before the Luton debacle prompted another change of heart. What formation we're going to use is going to really dictate our transfer business, and we still aren't 100% sure. he also pulled his groin in the Luton game and then did his knee straight after.......... True - but the JPB loan did reveal where his head was at, and maybe what he was looking towards as recently as the end of January? So, with that in mind, it'd be interesting to know what formation he was going to mould the squad towards over the summer. RB and RWB would probably be a totally different profile of signing. And the kind of striker to lead the line in a 4-3-3 is very much a certain type. And that'd have knock-on effects with how many and which type of central defenders may be needed, the midfield balance, Campbell and Brown's potential roles (and Doughty's too?) - and the possible purchase of Maja? Also interesting to know to what extent it was Holden who was a big advocate of the back three given he used it exclusively at Bristol City.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 27, 2022 11:22:30 GMT
Out most important priority must be a new manager , look at Forest , that’s what happens when you get a decent one in instead the inept one we have And Wilder, look at Wilder. EDIT I've just been asked to stop using him as a yardstick since they won 2 of their last 10 games. Apologies folks. If we were going to change manager and have some benefit from it, surely it would have been done already? With so many out of contract, it seems odd not to have a new manager assess whether he wants any of them in.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 11:54:16 GMT
If we are to stick with 352 (hope not) we at the very least need a rwb who is competent in a four to allow us some in game flexibility.
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Post by george2again on Apr 27, 2022 11:59:10 GMT
Anybody think Gilmour on loan from Chelsea would be a more than decent signing to partner Baker?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 27, 2022 12:00:22 GMT
Anybody think Gilmour on loan from Chelsea would be a more than decent signing to partner Baker? Are they not a bit similar?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2022 12:11:44 GMT
Anybody think Gilmour on loan from Chelsea would be a more than decent signing to partner Baker? Nice footballer but think we desperately need some physicallity in midfield. That's not really him is it?
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Post by clivey05 on Apr 27, 2022 12:24:21 GMT
Nico Williams who is on loan at Fulham from Liverpool would be a great Loan for a right back. I think we still need a proper DM and although it’s not quite worked for him at Bournemouth, Ben Pearson could be just what we need in midfield, horrible, always moaning at the ref, aggressive and only 26 so best years ahead of him potentially.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 27, 2022 12:24:30 GMT
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 27, 2022 12:55:33 GMT
Nico Williams who is on loan at Fulham from Liverpool would be a great Loan for a right back. I think we still need a proper DM and although it’s not quite worked for him at Bournemouth, Ben Pearson could be just what we need in midfield, horrible, always moaning at the ref, aggressive and only 26 so best years ahead of him potentially. I think Williams will follow them up to be honest. It would seem like the right decision for all parties, in my opinion.
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Post by heworksardtho on Apr 27, 2022 13:04:56 GMT
And Wilder, look at Wilder. EDIT I've just been asked to stop using him as a yardstick since they won 2 of their last 10 games. Apologies folks. If we were going to change manager and have some benefit from it, surely it would have been done already? With so many out of contract, it seems odd not to have a new manager assess whether he wants any of them in. There’s still time so fingers crossed 🤞
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Post by Rt Hon Reverend Luvpump on Apr 27, 2022 13:06:59 GMT
Nico Williams who is on loan at Fulham from Liverpool would be a great Loan for a right back. I think we still need a proper DM and although it’s not quite worked for him at Bournemouth, Ben Pearson could be just what we need in midfield, horrible, always moaning at the ref, aggressive and only 26 so best years ahead of him potentially. Ben Pearson could you imagine Allen and him they’re always having a ding dong when they play against each other.
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Post by mickstupp on Apr 27, 2022 13:35:43 GMT
I still think O'Neill would like to go 433 but just doesn't trust Smith and to a lesser extent Tymon in a four. Why sign JPB otherwise? We have good options in the wide forward areas JPB, Campbell and DWP but the current 352 doesn't suit them. So for me top priority is two good fullbacks to allow us to switch systems and utilise our wide attackers. Easier said than done though. I'd like to see the formation question put to him before the end of the season, and where he sees us going next season. When we signed Philogene, it definitely looked like he wanted to go back to the 4, and we played 6 games using it immediately after the deadline including the promising Swansea and Forest games where JPB was fantastic) before the Luton debacle prompted another change of heart. What formation we're going to use is going to really dictate our transfer business, and we still aren't 100% sure. Is it too simplistic that he’s come to the conclusion that a 433 or variation of means we look a bit more likely to score but hugely vulnerable at the back, whereas the 352 leaves us slightly less potent going forward but much more solid in defence?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 27, 2022 13:58:46 GMT
I'd like to see the formation question put to him before the end of the season, and where he sees us going next season. When we signed Philogene, it definitely looked like he wanted to go back to the 4, and we played 6 games using it immediately after the deadline including the promising Swansea and Forest games where JPB was fantastic) before the Luton debacle prompted another change of heart. What formation we're going to use is going to really dictate our transfer business, and we still aren't 100% sure. Is it too simplistic that he’s come to the conclusion that a 433 or variation of means we look a bit more likely to score but hugely vulnerable at the back, whereas the 352 leaves us slightly less potent going forward but much more solid in defence? Is there a huge amount of evidence to support that conclusion?
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Post by Ron on Apr 27, 2022 14:15:49 GMT
Personally I think we’ve looked a much better team this season playing 532 out good form has come playing this formation and our players were suited to it.
The January stupidity/ chaos was centred around MON and Co deciding we wanted to play 4-2-3-1/ 4-3-3.
It was ill thought out a he forgot to buy orthodoxy full backs- Tymon / smith not the answer in a back 4.
As such, bar Swansea at home where their football could only be described as kamikaze, it failed to work.
Personally I think had he rode the winter storm where we had a few questionable results and stick with 532 /541 we would have been in with a genuine playoff chance.
I hope he comes out and admits the chaotic transfer business and attempt to fix something that was far from broken has cost us dearly.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Apr 27, 2022 15:50:24 GMT
"I hope he comes out and admits the chaotic transfer business and attempt to fix something that was far from broken has cost us dearly." You'll be waiting a long time!!!
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Post by lordb on Apr 27, 2022 16:07:58 GMT
Is it too simplistic that he’s come to the conclusion that a 433 or variation of means we look a bit more likely to score but hugely vulnerable at the back, whereas the 352 leaves us slightly less potent going forward but much more solid in defence? Is there a huge amount of evidence to support that conclusion? without checking would assume or results this season are pretty similar 352 or 433 we've played really well with both formations at times & played a lot of games where it's been utterly turgid with both formations It's not the formation that's holding us back
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 27, 2022 16:12:21 GMT
Is there a huge amount of evidence to support that conclusion? without checking would assume or results this season are pretty similar 352 or 433 we've played really well with both formations at times & played a lot of games where it's been utterly turgid with both formations It's not the formation that's holding us back It has been at times in that he hasn't used the right players for the right system and he's wildly chopped and changed at times.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 27, 2022 16:15:17 GMT
Personally I think we’ve looked a much better team this season playing 532 out good form has come playing this formation and our players were suited to it. The January stupidity/ chaos was centred around MON and Co deciding we wanted to play 4-2-3-1/ 4-3-3. It was ill thought out a he forgot to buy orthodoxy full backs- Tymon / smith not the answer in a back 4. As such, bar Swansea at home where their football could only be described as kamikaze, it failed to work. Personally I think had he rode the winter storm where we had a few questionable results and stick with 532 /541 we would have been in with a genuine playoff chance. I hope he comes out and admits the chaotic transfer business and attempt to fix something that was far from broken has cost us dearly. I think it was the combination of changing systems and making so many changes at Xmas that did for us but I think we had to be moving on some earners at Xmas because of FFP and we needed to bring players in for injuries - we didn't have to change formation so for me that was the self inflected bit. I agree overall we played better with 532 this season because it suits the players we have. If we do go for 433 we need to recruit accordingly this summer. Ideally we should build a squad that is flexible but if we haven't got that luxury just go for a system and stick with it. I don't get the arguement about 4 at the back being better than 5 - it isn't and neither is the reverse true. The system is only as good as the players' ability to get the most out of it.
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Post by nonameface on Apr 27, 2022 17:56:40 GMT
Out most important priority must be a new manager , look at Forest , that’s what happens when you get a decent one in instead the inept one we have 🎣
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Post by nonameface on Apr 27, 2022 18:00:49 GMT
I still think O'Neill would like to go 433 but just doesn't trust Smith and to a lesser extent Tymon in a four. Why sign JPB otherwise? We have good options in the wide forward areas JPB, Campbell and DWP but the current 352 doesn't suit them. So for me top priority is two good fullbacks to allow us to switch systems and utilise our wide attackers. Easier said than done though. He probably does want 433 long term based upon his comments, but it could potentially be he was looking for 343 short term? JPB could play as an inside forward or an inverted winger like salah but on the other wing. We are looking to control play more and more so will need to have defensive players comfortable with the ball and for us to know they are less likely to be as good defensively. Wilson, could be a good option. It would be good to understand from a data perspective how these stats would relate to two leagues higher.
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