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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2022 10:44:54 GMT
If Allen signs a new contract we still need another centre mid if Clucas goes, as I think he will.
Baker, Allen & the injury prone Thompson are not enough to cover 2 positions over a 46 game season.
From MON's comments I expect us to bring in a young, physical, athletic midfielder probably from league 1 or Scotland as competition for Allen in the short term and to hopefully replace him in the long term.
As long as Allen knows his starting place isn't guaranteed and accepts our financial terms it makes sense to me.
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Post by gingerninja on Jun 4, 2022 10:46:35 GMT
I have no idea, that's why we have a scouting system to leave no stone uncovered to find themš.time and time again last season we got out muscled and played through, yet we appear to be going with the same personnel š.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 4, 2022 10:49:45 GMT
I have no idea, that's why we have a scouting system to leave no stone uncovered to find themš.time and time again last season we got out muscled and played through, yet we appear to be going with the same personnel š. This. Itās not about them even being better players itās about them fitting the system better. If Sawyers does sign and MON is looking for an Allen, Sawyers, Baker 3 despite them all being good individually theyāll get bullied by teams like Coventry and Luton. A lot of the issue lies with the managers tactics and selection.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jun 4, 2022 10:57:24 GMT
It was a great chance to reset the midfield dynamic. Looks like we won't be doing that again. We seem obsessed on these good character types, yes they are good to have, but surely with Jageilka, Baker etc around the place we have enough. Just a pointless waste of a contract. Wasn't he in the top 5 Championship players for key passes? Quite often the through pass to the player who then plays the assisting cross or pass is more important than the actual assist. An early defence splitting pass puts the defence on the back foot and Allen is good at seeing those openings in my opinion.
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Post by lordb on Jun 4, 2022 10:58:32 GMT
I have no idea, that's why we have a scouting system to leave no stone uncovered to find themš.time and time again last season we got out muscled and played through, yet we appear to be going with the same personnel š. 'no idea', not a convincing argument come up with a name Presuade me
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 4, 2022 11:18:05 GMT
If that's what you've seen you must have been attending different games than me. He's been a bit better but that he hasn't been. And so who is the alternative who could be brought in who would be better? Dunno, if you want a job as a football scout apply for one, I don't. Probably one of the midfielders at other clubs who was better than him last season which is a fairly large pool.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 4, 2022 11:52:04 GMT
I have no idea, that's why we have a scouting system to leave no stone uncovered to find themš.time and time again last season we got out muscled and played through, yet we appear to be going with the same personnel š. 'no idea', not a convincing argument come up with a name Presuade me I go to our home games and it's a minor miracle if I know the name of more than one player in the opposition squad but they quite regularly look like they get the better of Allen physically and retain possession more successfully. In fact the only thing I find myself impressed with in Allen is how well he competes in the air for a small bloke.
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Post by monkeycat on Jun 4, 2022 12:01:00 GMT
So you are saying there are better players in the league we could get but canāt name any
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Post by gingerninja on Jun 4, 2022 12:04:20 GMT
I am not employed by the club to find such player's no, that's their jobs. What I am saying is there should be younger, stronger and equally as ambitious to progress we should be trying to unearth.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 4, 2022 12:12:17 GMT
So you are saying there are better players in the league we could get but canāt name any Certainly players with attributes I'd rather see in our midfield. Otherwise it suggests that if you took the best midfielder in the league(no idea who he is either) and had 5 clones of the same thing it would produce a balanced midfield. It just wouldn't.
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Post by stokecitytalke on Jun 4, 2022 12:46:08 GMT
Allen was better than Allen in the last game!!
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Post by Jimm on Jun 4, 2022 12:58:51 GMT
So you are saying there are better players in the league we could get but canāt name any Gustavo Hamer, Alan Browne and Matt Grimes are all better than Allen and probably achievable
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 4, 2022 13:07:59 GMT
So you are saying there are better players in the league we could get but canāt name any Gustavo Hamer, Alan Browne and Matt Grimes are all better than Allen and probably achievable Gustavo sounds ace, was he in breaking bad?
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Post by realstokebloke on Jun 4, 2022 13:31:49 GMT
Swimming against the tide maybe but I like Joe.
I also think the abuse goes too far but that's a different debate perhaps.
That said, obviously, it all hinges on what we'd be forking out for ano contract vs what we could reasonably expect to get for the same or less wonga - in the era of FFP and with the steely determination required to get in the top six, there is little or no room for sentiment.
So, if it is indeed true that we can pick up up a better player, with a better character, as cheap as chips, in this post covid market and be better off, team and balance wise in the MF, then somebody tell me who, how much and if we have a realistic chance of getting him.
I'll wait ... I think Allen is OK, but not on the rumoured wages if true. If he could accept Ā£15K per week it's a yes from me, but I honestly think we can bring someone in on that kind of money who isn't inferior to Allen at all. So not a too big deal as long as the contract on the table isn't a stupid one. Max two years on Ā£15K per week, unless look somewhere else. We don't actually know the wages though do we, either of Joe or this mythical, Plan B, footballing Goliath player - whoever that might be - so we can't make a relative, or indeed, a useful, comparison without all the facts.
That is the job of MoN & co.
Hopefully, they do have the full deck in front of them, including availability and any potential desire to actually rock up at the Brit, oops, 365 and nail his coulours to the mast - because like him or not, that is exactly what JA has done unflinchingly.
There may well be an absolute steal out there, available and desperate to come here but, as ever, I'm not sure anyone on here could name names with any authority.
It's a classic stick or twist it seems to me and, for all his foibles, I'd be tempted to stick and perhaps enhance the situation around him tbh.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jun 4, 2022 13:33:55 GMT
If Allen signs a new contract we still need another centre mid if Clucas goes, as I think he wilBaker, Allen & the injury prone Thompson are not enough to cover 2 positions over a 46 game season. From MON's comments I expect us to bring in a young, physical, athletic midfielder probably from league 1 or Scotland as competition for Allen in the short term and to hopefully replace him in the long term. As long as Allen knows his starting place isn't guaranteed and accepts our financial terms it makes sense to me. This. Basically.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 4, 2022 13:36:32 GMT
I think Allen is OK, but not on the rumoured wages if true. If he could accept Ā£15K per week it's a yes from me, but I honestly think we can bring someone in on that kind of money who isn't inferior to Allen at all. So not a too big deal as long as the contract on the table isn't a stupid one. Max two years on Ā£15K per week, unless look somewhere else. We don't actually know the wages though do we, either of Joe or this mythical, Plan B, footballing Goliath player - whoever that might be - so we can't make a relative, or indeed, a useful, comparison without all the facts.
That is the job of MoN & co.
Hopefully, they do have the full deck in front of them, including availability and any potential desire to actually rock up at the Brit, oops, 365 and nail his coulours to the mast - because like him or not, that is exactly what JA has done unflinchingly.
There may well be an absolute steal out there, available and desperate to come here but, as ever, I'm not sure anyone on here could name names with any authority.
It's a classic stick or twist it seems to me and, for all his foibles, I'd be tempted to stick and perhaps enhance the situation around him tbh.
In a good week the situation around him consists of Baker and Powell. You'd find it much more difficult to find enhancements on them than Joe Allen.
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Post by maine on Jun 4, 2022 13:47:37 GMT
Interesting reference someone makes above to Grimes as a better option. The things Grimes offers are availability on the field and a decent long pass. Joe doesn't really have the latter but he is almost ALWAYS around to receive the ball. Without that we'd be in trouble as in my opinion the other midfielders are not so readily available. The likes of Sawyers might be pretty good on the ball but I wouldn't want to rely on them to be where you need them to be when you're looking for someone to pass to.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jun 4, 2022 13:49:17 GMT
Hereās an alternative thought. I wonder if playing alongside Allen is bringing the best out of Baker and having Baker shoulder some of the midfield duties Allen is being allowed more freedom to play his own game which is ālink manā.
Just a thought.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 4, 2022 14:00:49 GMT
Hereās an alternative thought. I wonder if playing alongside Allen is bringing the best out of Baker and having Baker shoulder some of the midfield duties Allen is being allowed more freedom to play his own game which is ālink manā. Just a thought. Is that an argument our midfield has been satisfactory since Baker's arrival?
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jun 4, 2022 14:16:42 GMT
Hereās an alternative thought. I wonder if playing alongside Allen is bringing the best out of Baker and having Baker shoulder some of the midfield duties Allen is being allowed more freedom to play his own game which is ālink manā. Just a thought. Is that an argument our midfield has been satisfactory since Baker's arrival? Itās improved. However with the weaknesses of Sawyers and/or Vrancic playing it still wasnāt strong enough especially with the long standing absence of Powell.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 4, 2022 14:20:39 GMT
So you are saying there are better players in the league we could get but canāt name any We already have two š
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Post by monkeycat on Jun 4, 2022 14:42:02 GMT
So you are saying there are better players in the league we could get but canāt name any We already have two š Fair enough, if you think so
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 4, 2022 15:09:51 GMT
Is that an argument our midfield has been satisfactory since Baker's arrival? Itās improved. However with the weaknesses of Sawyers and/or Vrancic playing it still wasnāt strong enough especially with the long standing absence of Powell. I agree that Powell is a miss and adds physicality to an otherwise pretty limp midfield but it's in the wrong area of the pitch really, we need a more physical player instead of Allen not alongside him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2022 15:16:00 GMT
So you are saying there are better players in the league we could get but canāt name any We already have two š Thompson always has niggling injuries and tin hat time, Baker isn't great out of possession.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 4, 2022 15:19:34 GMT
Thompson always has niggling injuries and tin hat time, Baker isn't great out of possession. Heās fine out of possession. Thompson is a below average Championship midfielder and does what Allen does with the added bonus he can pass a little better.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 4, 2022 15:21:37 GMT
Thompson always has niggling injuries and tin hat time, Baker isn't great out of possession. Bakerās been fine off the ball I think? Can put a foot in as well.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 4, 2022 15:31:53 GMT
Thompson always has niggling injuries and tin hat time, Baker isn't great out of possession. Heās fine out of possession. Thompson is a below average Championship midfielder and does what Allen does with the added bonus he can pass a little better. Wonder what we pay Thompson compared to what we've offered Allen. All you have to do then is ask yourself why would you want to pay him multiples of what you pay Thompson?
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Post by dirtclod on Jun 4, 2022 15:50:17 GMT
And at that amount of money, I'd expect a guy's passing to be far better. FFS there were matches this year I was wondering if he was ever going to pass to one of ours. I like Joe, but too expensive, never was the signing we needed at the time and dammit we need a DM in the mix!
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Post by lordb on Jun 4, 2022 16:06:20 GMT
So you are saying there are better players in the league we could get but canāt name any Gustavo Hamer, Alan Browne and Matt Grimes are all better than Allen and probably achievable Any of those available on a free?
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Post by onionman on Jun 4, 2022 16:45:19 GMT
I donāt know which right backs are available within our budget either. Does that mean we should keep Tommy Smith forever as well?
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