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Post by PotterLog on Jul 15, 2024 0:38:22 GMT
Small time? Pretty much none of the big nations that actually win things would dream of employing a foreign manager. It’s the “small-time” nations that don’t develop their own decent coaches that have to look elsewhere. Who gives a flying fuck what other nations would or wouldn't do? I just want a manager who's capable of winning something for MY nation. Couldn't give a shit if the manager is from the Nth dimension so long as they win some silverware. Me neither really. I’m just challenging the idea that it’s “small-time” to want a home-grown coach. It’s a pretty fundamental thing for the really successful footballing nations.
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Post by thepottypotter on Jul 15, 2024 0:46:48 GMT
Cheers ref…..played the added time very corruptly there with the Spain histrionics. I can’t fathom how we still let the ref manage the time in football.
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Post by kustokie on Jul 15, 2024 1:31:17 GMT
Safegate has tough choices to make. Go with an unchanged line-up or make changes. Does he start Cole Palmer and Ollie Watkins, which worked well against the Netherlands, instead of Foden and Kane? I’d do it because it’s Kane’s best chance of winning a trophy. But he won’t do it. The defense is fine which where the game will be won or lost. How come everyone except Safegate knew dropping Kane was the best way for him to win a trophy He’s a greater striker. Up he makes the team he plays for worse. Unfortunately getting to the final despite playing dreadful football probably saved his job.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 4:29:51 GMT
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 15, 2024 4:29:51 GMT
The manager is at fault for staying with players that are under performing for to long cane is a case in point he drops to deep and does not give us an out By constantly picking him he has stifled our attack we have some of the best young talents in the world who do it week in week out for their clubs but with Southgate fale miserable there is only 1 deduction the manager needs to go I've been saying this since the last euros terrible tactical decisions then too
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Post by adri2008 on Jul 15, 2024 6:15:04 GMT
Spain won every game they played. Beat England, Germany, France and Italy and were highest scorers. How can anyone query that they were the best team? England on the other hand struggled to beat the also rans and needed a dodgy penalty award to make the final. Spain were easily the best team in the tournament. England never really got in gear but were difficult to beat and effective at times. As for the final itself, we played well enough but the Spanish were clearly superior. Solid defensively and Williams in particular looked like he could (and did) cut through our defence at will.
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Post by delilahwhy on Jul 15, 2024 6:35:18 GMT
We need to find a way to get the best out of our attacking players. And a Manager not afraid to drop/rotate the big name players. How Kane started every game is beyond me. Clearly not fit. That held us back.
I'd be tempted to drop Bellingham deeper. He has all the attributes to play there. That frees up the space for Foden to play in his best position. Pace up front in somebody like Watkins.
Palmer shouldn't be sat on the bench every game either.
We shouldn't be afraid of dropping Rice too. He shouldn't be untouchable. Mainoo has been class and we have Wharton waiting in the wings.
Southgate has taken us forward and I've been a big fan of what he's done and the progress we've made, but it's time for somebody else to come in and try and maximise the abilities of the attacking talent we have at our disposal.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jul 15, 2024 6:36:57 GMT
Biggest thing that annoyed me last night is when we had a throw in by their 18 yard box at about 80 minutes at 1-1, and it ended up back to Pickford 10 seconds later.
Kyle bloody Walker.
They then proceeded to keep the ball for the next 5 minutes before scoring.
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Post by adri2008 on Jul 15, 2024 6:38:44 GMT
Biggest thing that annoyed me last night is when we had a throw in by their 18 yard box at about 80 minutes at 1-1, and it ended up back to Pickford 10 seconds later. Kyle bloody Walker. They then proceeded to keep the ball for the next 5 minutes before scoring. Yes we had the momentum (for a short period) but then let them find their groove again which proved fatal.
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Post by adri2008 on Jul 15, 2024 6:45:13 GMT
We need to find a way to get the best out of our attacking players. And a Manager not afraid to drop/rotate the big name players. How Kane started every game is beyond me. Clearly not fit. That held us back. I'd be tempted to drop Bellingham deeper. He has all the attributes to play there. That frees up the space for Foden to play in his best position. Pace up front in somebody like Watkins. Palmer shouldn't be sat on the bench every game either. We shouldn't be afraid of dropping Rice too. He shouldn't be untouchable. Mainoo has been class and we have Wharton waiting in the wings. Southgate has taken us forward and I've been a big fan of what he's done and the progress we've made, but it's time for somebody else to come in and try and maximise the abilities of the attacking talent we have at our disposal. I'd agree with that myself mostly but I could understand the Kane decision to a degree being the captain and coming off the back of a very good season at Bayern. He just seemed leggy the whole tournament. To be fair, Southgate got him off quite promptly in the 2nd half and at 1-1 we were in with a chance. A good time for a change though - a brilliant 6 years which I've enjoyed immensely but with Kane clearly on the wane, a good time for some fresh ideas. Somehow we need to fit Foden/Bellingham/Palmer/Saka into the team. It's a got a feel of the Lampard/Gerrard/Scholes scenario at the moment.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 6:55:01 GMT
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jul 15, 2024 6:55:01 GMT
Biggest thing that annoyed me last night is when we had a throw in by their 18 yard box at about 80 minutes at 1-1, and it ended up back to Pickford 10 seconds later. Kyle bloody Walker. They then proceeded to keep the ball for the next 5 minutes before scoring. Yep thought the same thing.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 6:59:50 GMT
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Post by stoke111 on Jul 15, 2024 6:59:50 GMT
Biggest thing that annoyed me last night is when we had a throw in by their 18 yard box at about 80 minutes at 1-1, and it ended up back to Pickford 10 seconds later. Kyle bloody Walker. They then proceeded to keep the ball for the next 5 minutes before scoring. If you look back there were 3 players all in the same place not moving or giving an option. I was shouting at my screen to not stand in the same place like statues.
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Post by noustie on Jul 15, 2024 7:01:42 GMT
Best side in a poor competition won but England had a chance - Southgate is just a bit too conservative.
Palmer caused mayhem when he came on but you took your foot off the gas at 1-1 looking like he’d settled for extra time.
Palmer should have been on as soon as Rodri went off for me and gone after them far earlier.
Although I will admit my potato bravas went fucking everywhere when the winner went in!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 15, 2024 7:02:02 GMT
Hopefully Southgate leaves and we get someone in that can play progressive football and use the tools at his disposal.
Because this a group of players that should win a tournament.
It never felt like we actually were building to this moment. It get unhinged, disjointed and cobbled together.
The qualifiers and friendlies need to be used to get the players into a system that suits the majority of them. And it doesn’t feel like we did that. We relied on having that one moment.
If you actually gave them a plan and some tactics then this team should be really fucking good.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 7:02:30 GMT
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Post by Veritas on Jul 15, 2024 7:02:30 GMT
Biggest thing that annoyed me last night is when we had a throw in by their 18 yard box at about 80 minutes at 1-1, and it ended up back to Pickford 10 seconds later. Kyle bloody Walker. They then proceeded to keep the ball for the next 5 minutes before scoring. Yes we had the momentum (for a short period) but then let them find their groove again which proved fatal. I don't think we let them find their groove again as the better side they imposed it on the game
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Post by werrington on Jul 15, 2024 7:03:27 GMT
It’s those fuckin white shorts
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England
Jul 15, 2024 7:06:28 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2024 7:06:28 GMT
We can talk about managers as much as we like and, although that is a valid discussion, for me the critical aspect is coaching and development from youth, including mindset. We don't produce genuinely world class players who can do it at international level and win things. Simple as that.
Spain were brilliant from about 2008 to 2012 and look like they've produced another fine generation. They must be doing something right. We should be copying their approach.
I firmly believe it's the players primarily, not the manager.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 15, 2024 7:11:27 GMT
We can talk about managers as much as we like and, although that is a valid discussion, for me the critical aspect is coaching and development from youth, including mindset. We don't produce genuinely world class players who can do it at international level and win things. Simple as that. Spain were brilliant from about 2008 to 2012 and look like they've produced another fine generation. They must be doing something right. We should be copying their approach. I firmly believe it's the players primarily, not the manager. Apart from a lot of that team are world class and play for the best clubs in the world. Certainly, I think the calibre of team/club that our starting XI play for compared to the Spanish is way superior. They were a team though, they were coached. Our u21s are the current u21 Euro Champions Foden won an u20 World Cup. The players are generally the best. The manager we have should struggle to get a job in League One.
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Post by superjw on Jul 15, 2024 7:38:42 GMT
Biggest thing that annoyed me last night is when we had a throw in by their 18 yard box at about 80 minutes at 1-1, and it ended up back to Pickford 10 seconds later. Kyle bloody Walker. They then proceeded to keep the ball for the next 5 minutes before scoring. 100% - we had our chance and sat back and allowed Spain back in, they were slightly rattled for a few minutes and a winning team would have taken the game to them. We didn’t and ultimately the team that knows how to win very simply reimposed their dominance. Quite unbelievable to watch us retreat as we did at such a late stage and the ending was always inevitable. Just like watching Stoke, but I suppose everyone has now had a flavour of what we are all used to on here. Southgate is a serial loser, he simply doesn’t know how to win. He needs to step aside and we need a creative manager who actually knows what it takes to get across the winning line.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 7:44:23 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 15, 2024 7:44:23 GMT
Biggest thing that annoyed me last night is when we had a throw in by their 18 yard box at about 80 minutes at 1-1, and it ended up back to Pickford 10 seconds later. Kyle bloody Walker. They then proceeded to keep the ball for the next 5 minutes before scoring. Instructions.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 7:46:12 GMT
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Post by wolfinsheepsclothing on Jul 15, 2024 7:46:12 GMT
Broadly speaking, 1 and 2 touch versus 4 and 5 touch football.
We froze just at the point they briefly wobbled. The Walker throw summed it up.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 7:47:45 GMT
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 15, 2024 7:47:45 GMT
With the talent we have in this squad, our main strength is getting forward,but all that talent is wasted,when you have a defence minded manager in charge.
If we had any of the managers from Spain,France,Germany say,we would now be Champions,instead of also runs yet again.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 7:48:23 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 15, 2024 7:48:23 GMT
Biggest thing that annoyed me last night is when we had a throw in by their 18 yard box at about 80 minutes at 1-1, and it ended up back to Pickford 10 seconds later. Kyle bloody Walker. They then proceeded to keep the ball for the next 5 minutes before scoring. 100% - we had our chance and sat back and allowed Spain back in, they were slightly rattled for a few minutes and a winning team would have taken the game to them. We didn’t and ultimately the team that knows how to win very simply reimposed their dominance. Quite unbelievable to watch us retreat as we did at such a late stage and the ending was always inevitable. Just like watching Stoke, but I suppose everyone has now had a flavour of what we are all used to on here. Southgate is a serial loser, he simply doesn’t know how to win. He needs to step aside and we need a creative manager who actually knows what it takes to get across the winning line. That's an Englishman out of the running then. Redknapp was the last one to win a trophy.
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Post by frasier37 on Jul 15, 2024 8:03:42 GMT
With the talent we have in this squad, our main strength is getting forward,but all that talent is wasted,when you have a defence minded manager in charge. If we had any of the managers from Spain,France,Germany say,we would now be Champions,instead of also runs yet again. You could say, if we didn't have a defence minded manager we could have conceded a sack full and gone home alot earlier. We simply played a better team in the final and that team has stood out from the start of the tournament. We can be proud of our young players
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Post by moon on Jul 15, 2024 8:14:13 GMT
Yes we had the momentum (for a short period) but then let them find their groove again which proved fatal. I don't think we let them find their groove again as the better side they imposed it on the game After they scored we began to play, we had 10 minutes or so where we were the dominant side, we were pressing all the way up the pitch and when Palmer scored we definitely had the momentum. Soon after though we were content to let Spain have the ball at the back and we stopped pressing, so in a way I think we allowed them to find it as we were content to go to extra time at that point and play the longer game.
Spain should've been a few goals up by the time we scored anyway, they had some decent chances and there can be no doubt they were the better side, they were definitely beatable though and looked suspect at the back when pressed. As it was, we let them have most of the ball and for the majority of the match, when we did get the ball we were ineffective with it.
It really hurts to come so close and fail though, player for player we can match any team in the world, but I don't feel like we really played to our strengths over the last 6 years. I don't want to be too critical of Southgate though, he has taken us to two finals, one semi final, one quarter final and we were well in the game on all occasions, he'll rightly go down as one of England's best ever managers. I can't help but think of what might have been though.
Assuming Southgate has managed his last game for England I'm not sure where we go next, I can't think of an English man I'd pick for the job. It is surely time to move on though, but then I thought the same after we lost to Italy, so it wouldn't surprise me if he is given one more tournament. If we were to win under him it would have to come from a moment of brilliance for an individual or two, yet when I look at that Spain team it wasn't down to any individual - the team played as one, had a clear plan, and played to their strengths.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jul 15, 2024 8:14:34 GMT
Not a foreign manager. I know it's the Premier League way to pay big money for foreigners over developing English players, but what's the point in international football if you just pay a foreigner to come and win for you? Erm...we might actually win something. I don't buy all this small-time 'has to be an English manager' guff. We just need the best manager available. If he happens to be from somewhere other than England then so be it. I just can't agree. No other major footballing nation decides that they'll just pay a foreigner to sort it out for them. What is even the point of having international football in that case? We could go all-in on the Premier League model and just offer the best foreign players tens of millions of pounds to play for England instead. As for 'we might win something', better England squads than this have performed far worse at major tournaments under significantly more high profile managers, including Capello, who was arguably the best manager in the world at the time. The last six years have been an extraordinary anomaly: 1968 Third place (out of four teams) 1970 Quarter finals 1972 DNQ 1974 DNQ 1976 DNQ 1978 DNQ 1980 Group Stage 1982 Second group stage 1984 DNQ 1986 Quarter finals 1988 Group Stage 1990 Semi finals 1992 Group Stage 1994 DNQ 1996 Semi-finals 1998 Second round 2000 Group Stage 2002 Quarter finals 2004 Quarter finals 2006 Quarter finals 2008 DNQ 2010 Second round 2012 Quarter finals 2014 Group Stage 2016 Second round 2018 Semi finals 2020 Final 2022 Quarter finals 2024 Final I think it's fascinating to see the opprobrium aimed at Southgate when you compare his record to the (rightly) beloved Bobby Robson.
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England
Jul 15, 2024 8:14:45 GMT
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Post by Biblical on Jul 15, 2024 8:14:45 GMT
Getting to the final is a decent achievement but Southgate got the tactics wrong last night. Bellingham out on the left was completely mystifying.
Ultimately though I don’t think we’ve ever had more than half of the side bang at it throughout the tournament, the attackers in particular have largely been poor. Players have had moments but never managed to put it all together consistently.
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 15, 2024 8:15:27 GMT
You'll never see either win anything, I'm afraid. Well I'm 35 and I've seen Stoke win the Autoglass trophy two times so that puts your theory to bed doesn't it. Winning promotion has happened a few times aswell🔴⚪️
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England
Jul 15, 2024 8:20:00 GMT
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Post by cdf on Jul 15, 2024 8:20:00 GMT
Biggest thing that annoyed me last night is when we had a throw in by their 18 yard box at about 80 minutes at 1-1, and it ended up back to Pickford 10 seconds later. Kyle bloody Walker. They then proceeded to keep the ball for the next 5 minutes before scoring. 100% - we had our chance and sat back and allowed Spain back in, they were slightly rattled for a few minutes and a winning team would have taken the game to them. We didn’t and ultimately the team that knows how to win very simply reimposed their dominance. Quite unbelievable to watch us retreat as we did at such a late stage and the ending was always inevitable. Just like watching Stoke, but I suppose everyone has now had a flavour of what we are all used to on here. Southgate is a serial loser, he simply doesn’t know how to win. He needs to step aside and we need a creative manager who actually knows what it takes to get across the winning line. But how many champions leagues, Premier Leagues, FA Cups and League Cups as Gareth Southgate’s assistant manager won? Is Steve Holland just a yes man?
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Post by salopstick on Jul 15, 2024 8:27:58 GMT
Erm...we might actually win something. I don't buy all this small-time 'has to be an English manager' guff. We just need the best manager available. If he happens to be from somewhere other than England then so be it. I just can't agree. No other major footballing nation decides that they'll just pay a foreigner to sort it out for them. What is even the point of having international football in that case? We could go all-in on the Premier League model and just offer the best foreign players tens of millions of pounds to play for England instead. As for 'we might win something', better England squads than this have performed far worse at major tournaments under significantly more high profile managers, including Capello, who was arguably the best manager in the world at the time. The last six years have been an extraordinary anomaly: 1968 Third place (out of four teams) 1970 Quarter finals 1972 DNQ 1974 DNQ 1976 DNQ 1978 DNQ 1980 Group Stage 1982 Second group stage 1984 DNQ 1986 Quarter finals 1988 Group Stage 1990 Semi finals 1992 Group Stage 1994 DNQ 1996 Semi-finals 1998 Second round 2000 Group Stage 2002 Quarter finals 2004 Quarter finals 2006 Quarter finals 2008 DNQ 2010 Second round 2012 Quarter finals 2014 Group Stage 2016 Second round 2018 Semi finals 2020 Final 2022 Quarter finals 2024 Final I think it's fascinating to see the opprobrium aimed at Southgate when you compare his record to the (rightly) beloved Bobby Robson. Robson did not have the array of talent of this current crop. The critism aimed at southgate is justified because with the tools he has at his disposal what he achieves is bare minimum. his conservatism and at time misplaced loyalty to certain players is what has cost us. history may be kinder to him but atm every pundit and fan can see what is wrong but he is to stubborn to change. 1-1 spain are wobbling and we ease off just aiming for extra time. so unispiring
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England
Jul 15, 2024 8:29:51 GMT
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 15, 2024 8:29:51 GMT
100% - we had our chance and sat back and allowed Spain back in, they were slightly rattled for a few minutes and a winning team would have taken the game to them. We didn’t and ultimately the team that knows how to win very simply reimposed their dominance. Quite unbelievable to watch us retreat as we did at such a late stage and the ending was always inevitable. Just like watching Stoke, but I suppose everyone has now had a flavour of what we are all used to on here. Southgate is a serial loser, he simply doesn’t know how to win. He needs to step aside and we need a creative manager who actually knows what it takes to get across the winning line. That's an Englishman out of the running then. Redknapp was the last one to win a trophy. And there's the rub. For all the players we still don't produce world class managers. Southgate has done a brilliant job off the pitch, creating a 'Club England' mentality, and having a great relationship with fans and media. We must be very careful not to lose that with any replacement. But on the pitch I'm not confident Howe, Potter or Dyche would necessarily land the trophy that Southgate hasn't.
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