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Post by andystokey on Jun 26, 2022 10:28:49 GMT
Let's hope Powell doesn't pick up another injury in the next few months, or else we may as write off the season as soon as the World Cup ends (apart from a few 'dead rubbers' in the last knockings) If Powell is even here. He's good but entering the final year of his contract with no further option. If he won't commit longer term we should be actively looking to sell him. If we go up he might stay, if we don't then the new manager will have other ideas.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 26, 2022 10:34:00 GMT
If Powell is even here. He's good but entering the final year of his contract with no further option. If he won't commit longer term we should be actively looking to sell him. If we go up he might stay, if we don't then the new manager will have other ideas. He's got to be worth a decent fee, we're not in a position to allow a couple of million or so to walk out of the door without trying to do something about it. Obviously we can't force him to sign or transfer but we should be fighting for one or the other.
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Post by andystokey on Jun 26, 2022 11:15:26 GMT
If we go up he might stay, if we don't then the new manager will have other ideas. He's got to be worth a decent fee, we're not in a position to allow a couple of million or so to walk out of the door without trying to do something about it. Obviously we can't force him to sign or transfer but we should be fighting for one or the other. I'm pretty sure the ball isn't in Stoke's Court he let his contract wind down at Wigan. He knows he might turn that into higher wages. There isn't much Stoke can do right now.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jun 26, 2022 11:25:02 GMT
Than most? I don't think so, there have been a few clubs that have done some really good business yes Luton and Huddersfield but to suggest MON had more to work with than most I disagree. Huddersfield, Luton, Blackburn, Millwall, Coventry, Preston, would all have loved the financial flexibility to bring in players for the sort of fees and wages as Surridge, Doughty, Wilmot, Moore, Jagielka, THB, Osigaard, Bidace, Maja sure there are more who haven't come to mind. That's just the clubs who finished above us. He definitely has had more room for manouvre than the vast majority of championship managers. I haven't been keeping a close eye on transfers but haven't Luton, Cardiff, and Millwall all spent over a million so far this summer? Free transfers are not free - signing on fees and bigger wages, and undisclosed always seem to count as frees but are sometimes over a million. It seems to me a lot of teams have more flexibility than Stoke on the transfer front.
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Post by independent on Jun 26, 2022 12:22:53 GMT
Any money he has spent, he has generated himself. There is nothing stopping any other clubs' manager doing the same. Unless I missed a new rule change.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 26, 2022 14:59:11 GMT
Huddersfield, Luton, Blackburn, Millwall, Coventry, Preston, would all have loved the financial flexibility to bring in players for the sort of fees and wages as Surridge, Doughty, Wilmot, Moore, Jagielka, THB, Osigaard, Bidace, Maja sure there are more who haven't come to mind. That's just the clubs who finished above us. He definitely has had more room for manouvre than the vast majority of championship managers. I haven't been keeping a close eye on transfers but haven't Luton, Cardiff, and Millwall all spent over a million so far this summer? Free transfers are not free - signing on fees and bigger wages, and undisclosed always seem to count as frees but are sometimes over a million. It seems to me a lot of teams have more flexibility than Stoke on the transfer front. They haven’t that’s just looking at a partial window every preceding window we’ve invested more than all of them whether you want to calculate fees or wages or fees plus wages and by the end of this window I’d expect we will have too. I’d say you’re jumping the gun trying to justify our poor performance.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jun 26, 2022 15:37:28 GMT
I haven't been keeping a close eye on transfers but haven't Luton, Cardiff, and Millwall all spent over a million so far this summer? Free transfers are not free - signing on fees and bigger wages, and undisclosed always seem to count as frees but are sometimes over a million. It seems to me a lot of teams have more flexibility than Stoke on the transfer front. They haven’t that’s just looking at a partial window every preceding window we’ve invested more than all of them whether you want to calculate fees or wages or fees plus wages and by the end of this window I’d expect we will have too. I’d say you’re jumping the gun trying to justify our poor performance. I'm just saying that we are obviously this summer under more restraint than other so called poorer clubs. Last summer we used some but not all of the Collins money on Wilmot and Surridge and a couple of loans, then in January recouped the Surridge money to pay for Baker's signing on fee and three more loans. Although our squad value may be higher than a lot of other clubs we haven't got money to spend. We are shopping in the Scottish free transfer market for a gk while Millwall have brought in a Belgian? for a reported over £1 million fee. We can't expect our squad to be improved until we can spend money again. Until then it's going to be trial and error like last season trying to get a squad with the right attributes who work well together.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 26, 2022 16:09:21 GMT
They haven’t that’s just looking at a partial window every preceding window we’ve invested more than all of them whether you want to calculate fees or wages or fees plus wages and by the end of this window I’d expect we will have too. I’d say you’re jumping the gun trying to justify our poor performance. I'm just saying that we are obviously this summer under more restraint than other so called poorer clubs. Last summer we used some but not all of the Collins money on Wilmot and Surridge and a couple of loans, then in January recouped the Surridge money to pay for Baker's signing on fee and three more loans. Although our squad value may be higher than a lot of other clubs we haven't got money to spend. We are shopping in the Scottish free transfer market for a gk while Millwall have brought in a Belgian? for a reported over £1 million fee. We can't expect our squad to be improved until we can spend money again. Until then it's going to be trial and error like last season trying to get a squad with the right attributes who work well together. I don't understand how you can hope to rationalise jumping to that conclusion until the window has closed. If then we've had less freedom in the market than Millwall or Luton I'll agree with you. At this point I'm fairly certain Luton haven't signed anyone we'd have been in competition for mainly because they've signed a player from us who struggled to get on the pitch, never mind in the starting 11. I doubt we were in for the bloke Millwall signed he was foreign afterall with no experience in English football, it's just not what we do. I feel fairly confident we'll end up spending more than them and paying higher wages than them.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 26, 2022 16:21:26 GMT
If we go up he might stay, if we don't then the new manager will have other ideas. He's got to be worth a decent fee, we're not in a position to allow a couple of million or so to walk out of the door without trying to do something about it. Obviously we can't force him to sign or transfer but we should be fighting for one or the other. There’s no real reason to think that he will leave. Unless one of the clubs that are receiving parachute payments want him, then I’d be surprised if he wanted out. I don’t blame him for keeping his cards close to his chest and for making Stoke extend on his current (likely high) wage.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 26, 2022 16:32:38 GMT
He's got to be worth a decent fee, we're not in a position to allow a couple of million or so to walk out of the door without trying to do something about it. Obviously we can't force him to sign or transfer but we should be fighting for one or the other. There’s no real reason to think that he will leave. Unless one of the clubs that are receiving parachute payments want him, then I’d be surprised if he wanted out. I don’t blame him for keeping his cards close to his chest and for making Stoke extend on his current (likely high) wage. I take it we're talking Powell not Bursik. If he gets to the end of the season he's more likely to go elswhere than stay. Whatever he's worth in a fee at the moment will go into his and his agents pocket instead of onto Stoke's accounts. There's no reason he can't sign a longer deal and keep his high wage for 12 months then revert to a current competitive salary or spread the excess of the high wage over the length of a longer contract in addition to currently competitive salary. I don't blame him for looking after himself but sure will blame Stoke if he walks for nothing without trying every trick in the book to get him to sign a new deal or take a transfer for a fee.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 26, 2022 18:12:06 GMT
There’s no real reason to think that he will leave. Unless one of the clubs that are receiving parachute payments want him, then I’d be surprised if he wanted out. I don’t blame him for keeping his cards close to his chest and for making Stoke extend on his current (likely high) wage. I take it we're talking Powell not Bursik. If he gets to the end of the season he's more likely to go elswhere than stay. Whatever he's worth in a fee at the moment will go into his and his agents pocket instead of onto Stoke's accounts. There's no reason he can't sign a longer deal and keep his high wage for 12 months then revert to a current competitive salary or spread the excess of the high wage over the length of a longer contract in addition to currently competitive salary. I don't blame him for looking after himself but sure will blame Stoke if he walks for nothing without trying every trick in the book to get him to sign a new deal or take a transfer for a fee. If we sold him with 12 months left on his contract, we’d get what, £2 million? We’d lose our best player and wouldn’t have much in the bank to replace him. Rothwell has already moved elsewhere and other links we’ve had (eg Swift) sound more expensive than that. I’d be shocked if we didn’t/aren’t trying everything we can to get him to sign him. As for Bursik, he’s in a similar boat. 12 months left, likely not worth much now. The only way to keep these players is to get promoted, in my opinion. I personally can’t see that happening, though we stand a better chance of doing it with Powell here for at least another 12 months.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 26, 2022 18:26:25 GMT
I take it we're talking Powell not Bursik. If he gets to the end of the season he's more likely to go elswhere than stay. Whatever he's worth in a fee at the moment will go into his and his agents pocket instead of onto Stoke's accounts. There's no reason he can't sign a longer deal and keep his high wage for 12 months then revert to a current competitive salary or spread the excess of the high wage over the length of a longer contract in addition to currently competitive salary. I don't blame him for looking after himself but sure will blame Stoke if he walks for nothing without trying every trick in the book to get him to sign a new deal or take a transfer for a fee. If we sold him with 12 months left on his contract, we’d get what, £2 million? We’d lose our best player and wouldn’t have much in the bank to replace him. Rothwell has already moved elsewhere and other links we’ve had (eg Swift) sound more expensive than that. I’d be shocked if we didn’t/aren’t trying everything we can to get him to sign him. As for Bursik, he’s in a similar boat. 12 months left, likely not worth much now. The only way to keep these players is to get promoted, in my opinion. I personally can’t see that happening, though we stand a better chance of doing it with Powell here for at least another 12 months. £2M or nothing, take the £2M everytime, same for Bursik £1M now is better than nowt in 12 months. Reinvest it whilst player values are low and you can get someone decent for that money.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jun 26, 2022 19:08:27 GMT
They haven’t that’s just looking at a partial window every preceding window we’ve invested more than all of them whether you want to calculate fees or wages or fees plus wages and by the end of this window I’d expect we will have too. I’d say you’re jumping the gun trying to justify our poor performance. I'm just saying that we are obviously this summer under more restraint than other so called poorer clubs. Last summer we used some but not all of the Collins money on Wilmot and Surridge and a couple of loans, then in January recouped the Surridge money to pay for Baker's signing on fee and three more loans. Although our squad value may be higher than a lot of other clubs we haven't got money to spend. We are shopping in the Scottish free transfer market for a gk while Millwall have brought in a Belgian? for a reported over £1 million fee. We can't expect our squad to be improved until we can spend money again. Until then it's going to be trial and error like last season trying to get a squad with the right attributes who work well together. I get we don't have money to spend but why not look to build a young team, at least it gives fans something to get behind, more dull nonsense like last season is not going to go down well, Laurent sounds ok, prefer one of our young lads to Flint if I am honest just for the longer term, give Taylor a go with Jags as experience to bring him on. Same with Sawyers, he was ok, but like Flint will eat up decent champ wages but not really make enough difference to make us top six. If we are to be here for a few years build a young hungry team
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Jun 26, 2022 19:10:15 GMT
Apart from his difficult time at Man United, has Powell ever played above bottom half in this league? I wouldn't worry too much about losing him
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 26, 2022 19:14:44 GMT
I'm just saying that we are obviously this summer under more restraint than other so called poorer clubs. Last summer we used some but not all of the Collins money on Wilmot and Surridge and a couple of loans, then in January recouped the Surridge money to pay for Baker's signing on fee and three more loans. Although our squad value may be higher than a lot of other clubs we haven't got money to spend. We are shopping in the Scottish free transfer market for a gk while Millwall have brought in a Belgian? for a reported over £1 million fee. We can't expect our squad to be improved until we can spend money again. Until then it's going to be trial and error like last season trying to get a squad with the right attributes who work well together. I get we don't have money to spend but why not look to build a young team, at least it gives fans something to get behind, more dull nonsense like last season is not going to go down well, Laurent sounds ok, prefer one of our young lads to Flint if I am honest just for the longer term, give Taylor a go with Jags as experience to bring him on. Same with Sawyers, he was ok, but like Flint will eat up decent champ wages but not really make enough difference to make us top six. If we are to be here for a few years build a young hungry team Not sure what that difference is you're alluding to, about 22 teams in this league could make the top 6 without it being a massive shock.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2022 9:09:47 GMT
Apart from his difficult time at Man United, has Powell ever played above bottom half in this league? I wouldn't worry too much about losing him Why does that matter? He’s our best player.
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Post by J-Roar on Jun 27, 2022 9:41:41 GMT
Apart from his difficult time at Man United, has Powell ever played above bottom half in this league? I wouldn't worry too much about losing him Agree, get someone with experience of PL like Vokes, Ince, Afobe, Ward or Allen in. Fuck the joker Powell off, don't want our better players representing Stoke City - just ones who have played PL. On top of that, it's common knowledge that Powell hates the club. Fact......
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 27, 2022 11:01:40 GMT
Apart from his difficult time at Man United, has Powell ever played above bottom half in this league? I wouldn't worry too much about losing him Agree, get someone with experience of PL like Vokes, Ince, Afobe, Ward or Allen in. Fuck the joker Powell off, don't want our better players representing Stoke City - just ones who have played PL. On top of that, it's common knowledge that Powell hates the club. Fact...... All the OP is saying is that given the level he has played at it's unlikely he's high on anyone's shopping list. He's not criticising Powell or saying get rid. It's impossible to say anything other than Powell is some sort of footballing god on here without getting jumped on. He's a decent player but the level of adulation on here is a bit weird.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 27, 2022 11:21:43 GMT
Agree, get someone with experience of PL like Vokes, Ince, Afobe, Ward or Allen in. Fuck the joker Powell off, don't want our better players representing Stoke City - just ones who have played PL. On top of that, it's common knowledge that Powell hates the club. Fact...... All the OP is saying is that given the level he has played at it's unlikely he's high on anyone's shopping list. He's not criticising Powell or saying get rid. It's impossible to say anything other than Powell is some sort of footballing god on here without getting jumped on. He's a decent player but the level of adulation on here is a bit weird. What's weird about it. He's a flair player in a team that has very little flair? Not sure why you think a player with his stats for goals and assists and at his age wouldn't be likely to be on the shopping lists of lower prem/parachute clubs, for a lowish fee you'd struggle to find less of a gamble.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 27, 2022 11:47:40 GMT
Agree, get someone with experience of PL like Vokes, Ince, Afobe, Ward or Allen in. Fuck the joker Powell off, don't want our better players representing Stoke City - just ones who have played PL. On top of that, it's common knowledge that Powell hates the club. Fact...... All the OP is saying is that given the level he has played at it's unlikely he's high on anyone's shopping list. He's not criticising Powell or saying get rid. It's impossible to say anything other than Powell is some sort of footballing god on here without getting jumped on. He's a decent player but the level of adulation on here is a bit weird. It was the ‘I wouldn’t worry too much about losing him’ line people were focusing on. We should, at present, be extremely worried about that.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 27, 2022 12:00:48 GMT
All the OP is saying is that given the level he has played at it's unlikely he's high on anyone's shopping list. He's not criticising Powell or saying get rid. It's impossible to say anything other than Powell is some sort of footballing god on here without getting jumped on. He's a decent player but the level of adulation on here is a bit weird. What's weird about it. He's a flair player in a team that has very little flair? Not sure why you think a player with his stats for goals and assists and at his age wouldn't be likely to be on the shopping lists of lower prem/parachute clubs, for a lowish fee you'd struggle to find less of a gamble. What is weird is the inability of some posters to accept any criticism of Powell and in this case the OP wasn't even criticising Powell he was just saying that Powell's record in terms of where his teams have finished isn't something to shout about or raise his profile in the transfer market. Which is true but isn't actually a criticism of Powell. And you are doing exactly the same. All I did was point out that the OP wasn't criticising Powell and you are making out I was. If anything I'm criticising the over sensitive Powell fanboys who have this weird urge to jump on any poster who dares suggest Powell isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. And you've managed to prove my point.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 27, 2022 12:09:15 GMT
What's weird about it. He's a flair player in a team that has very little flair? Not sure why you think a player with his stats for goals and assists and at his age wouldn't be likely to be on the shopping lists of lower prem/parachute clubs, for a lowish fee you'd struggle to find less of a gamble. What is weird is the inability of some posters to accept any criticism of Powell and in this case the OP wasn't even criticising Powell he was just saying that Powell's record in terms of where his teams have finished isn't something to shout about or raise his profile in the transfer market. Which is true but isn't actually a criticism of Powell. And you are doing exactly the same. All I did was point out that the OP wasn't criticising Powell and you are making out I was. If anything I'm criticising the over sensitive Powell fanboys who have this weird urge to jump on any poster who dares suggest Powell isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. And you've managed to prove my point. Maybe you should look at my posting on the subject before deciding I'm jumping on anything regarding Powell who I've clearly posted should be sold if he won't sign an extended deal. I don't know about the best thing since sliced bread he's just the best most watchable player on our books but if you've got to replace him it would be far easier to replace him with a fee in a depressed market than it will be replacing him for nothing next Summer. The only point you seem to have proved is that you don't understand why fans like Powell so much given the lack of talent most of the others on our books demonstrate on a weekly basis.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jun 27, 2022 12:27:44 GMT
What is weird is the inability of some posters to accept any criticism of Powell and in this case the OP wasn't even criticising Powell he was just saying that Powell's record in terms of where his teams have finished isn't something to shout about or raise his profile in the transfer market. Which is true but isn't actually a criticism of Powell. And you are doing exactly the same. All I did was point out that the OP wasn't criticising Powell and you are making out I was. If anything I'm criticising the over sensitive Powell fanboys who have this weird urge to jump on any poster who dares suggest Powell isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread. And you've managed to prove my point. Maybe you should look at my posting on the subject before deciding I'm jumping on anything regarding Powell who I've clearly posted should be sold if he won't sign an extended deal. I don't know about the best thing since sliced bread he's just the best most watchable player on our books but if you've got to replace him it would be far easier to replace him with a fee in a depressed market than it will be replacing him for nothing next Summer. The only point you seem to have proved is that you don't understand why fans like Powell so much given the lack of talent most of the others on our books demonstrate on a weekly basis. You did jump on my post and claimed it was me who didn't think Powell wasn't attractive in the transfer market when I said nothing of the sort. I fully understand why fans like Powell - I think he's a decent player myself. What I don't understand is why liking Powell bars me or any other poster from saying anything critical about him - to the extent that posts that aren't actually critical are seen as such. It's weird.
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Post by etebojan on Jun 27, 2022 12:36:04 GMT
Can see Sawyers being announced now after TOB leaving. With space still in midfield for an out and out DM
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 27, 2022 12:39:05 GMT
Can see Sawyers being announced now after TOB leaving. With space still in midfield for an out and out DM I can’t imagine that TOB cost even a fifth of what Sawyers would though. If he’s happy to take second choice to Powell, second choice to Baker and a contract that would reflect that role, I’d be happy to have him back.
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Post by etebojan on Jun 27, 2022 12:52:28 GMT
Can see Sawyers being announced now after TOB leaving. With space still in midfield for an out and out DM I can’t imagine that TOB cost even a fifth of what Sawyers would though. If he’s happy to take second choice to Powell, second choice to Baker and a contract that would reflect that role, I’d be happy to have him back. I was thinking more in terms of squad numbers but yes the wage disparity is obviously hugely different, but factoring in Allens colossal fees are also gone, plus the fact that am sure there would be room to negotiate with Sawyers now he's a free agent. I think he can still provide a bit of quality, if the deal is right
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Post by Old School Stokie on Jun 27, 2022 18:12:03 GMT
Oh no
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Post by wakeypotter on Jun 27, 2022 19:25:43 GMT
Apart from his difficult time at Man United, has Powell ever played above bottom half in this league? I wouldn't worry too much about losing him Why does that matter? He’s our best player. That’s your opinion Mine is he’s not
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Post by wakeypotter on Jun 27, 2022 19:29:38 GMT
Maybe you should look at my posting on the subject before deciding I'm jumping on anything regarding Powell who I've clearly posted should be sold if he won't sign an extended deal. I don't know about the best thing since sliced bread he's just the best most watchable player on our books but if you've got to replace him it would be far easier to replace him with a fee in a depressed market than it will be replacing him for nothing next Summer. The only point you seem to have proved is that you don't understand why fans like Powell so much given the lack of talent most of the others on our books demonstrate on a weekly basis. You did jump on my post and claimed it was me who didn't think Powell wasn't attractive in the transfer market when I said nothing of the sort. I fully understand why fans like Powell - I think he's a decent player myself. What I don't understand is why liking Powell bars me or any other poster from saying anything critical about him - to the extent that posts that aren't actually critical are seen as such. It's weird. No one can say owt derogatory about Powell on ere didn’t you know.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 27, 2022 19:31:13 GMT
You did jump on my post and claimed it was me who didn't think Powell wasn't attractive in the transfer market when I said nothing of the sort. I fully understand why fans like Powell - I think he's a decent player myself. What I don't understand is why liking Powell bars me or any other poster from saying anything critical about him - to the extent that posts that aren't actually critical are seen as such. It's weird. No one can say owt derogatory about Powell on ere didn’t you know. There's very little derogatory to say about him.
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