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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 21, 2023 8:47:57 GMT
Best way would be to split them into smaller forces. Biggest problem is there too big. They also need to look at recruitment. One of the biggest issues is due to the low starting salary no one wants to join so to satisfy targets they allow applicants in that if their were higher standards wouldn’t get in. Changes need to be made as these characters identified are making it doubly difficult for the many good officers due to publics perception that they’re all like the minority which isn’t helped by the medias one sided view. To be fair Cobs, it isn't the media who's reached the conclusion in that headline, is it? I’m not talking about that specific headline I’m talking generally.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 21, 2023 8:58:18 GMT
To be fair Cobs, it isn't the media who's reached the conclusion in that headline, is it? I’m not talking about that specific headline I’m talking generally. Is the bigger problem not the stuff that the official report highlights?
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2023 11:54:34 GMT
I’m not talking about that specific headline I’m talking generally. Is the bigger problem not the stuff that the official report highlights? Maybe, but why is Cobs post unrelated to that? Is the purpose of this thread just to bash the Met, or to actually discuss solutions, as he's proposed.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 21, 2023 11:56:28 GMT
Is the bigger problem not the stuff that the official report highlights? Maybe, but why is Cobs post unrelated to that? Is the purpose of this thread just to bash the Met, or to actually discuss solutions, as he's proposed. It’s obvious from the op what the thread is about
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2023 12:00:48 GMT
Maybe, but why is Cobs post unrelated to that? Is the purpose of this thread just to bash the Met, or to actually discuss solutions, as he's proposed. It’s obvious from the op what the thread is about We should do a Hartshill (again) thread Let's be consistent here, we can't moan about generalisations and then generalise the entire Met based on whatever report comes out. In the Met there are also normal people being paid tuppence to put their lives on the line. A little respect wouldn't go amiss.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 21, 2023 12:05:59 GMT
It’s obvious from the op what the thread is about We should do a Hartshill (again) thread Let's be consistent here, we can't moan about generalisations and then generalise the entire Met based on whatever report comes out. In the Met there are also normal people being paid tuppence to put their lives on the line. A little respect wouldn't go amiss. I absolutely agree, was just pointing out the thread was about slagging the met off from the get go. With the usual suspects wading in. Cobs is on a hiding to nothing on this thread unfortunately with his useful suggestions as how to improve things.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 21, 2023 12:18:08 GMT
Is the bigger problem not the stuff that the official report highlights? Maybe, but why is Cobs post unrelated to that? Is the purpose of this thread just to bash the Met, or to actually discuss solutions, as he's proposed. A lot of the solutions seem geared mainly towards PR though, that it's somehow the media that's the problem. The official report suggests the problem runs a lot deeper than a few bad apples.
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2023 12:20:53 GMT
Maybe, but why is Cobs post unrelated to that? Is the purpose of this thread just to bash the Met, or to actually discuss solutions, as he's proposed. A lot of the solutions seem geared mainly towards PR though, that it's somehow the media that's the problem. The official report suggests the problem runs a lot deeper than a few bad apples. Ok, but what's that got to do with Cobs post and suggestion though? It's another line of discussion.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 21, 2023 12:27:37 GMT
A lot of the solutions seem geared mainly towards PR though, that it's somehow the media that's the problem. The official report suggests the problem runs a lot deeper than a few bad apples. Ok, but what's that got to do with Cobs post and suggestion though? It's another line of discussion. What part of my post didn't already answer that sorry?
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2023 12:30:52 GMT
Ok, but what's that got to do with Cobs post and suggestion though? It's another line of discussion. What part of my post didn't already answer that sorry? Well you replied about a headline but nothing to do with what Cobham suggested. Sorry if I missed it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 21, 2023 12:32:42 GMT
What part of my post didn't already answer that sorry? Well you replied about a headline but nothing to do with what Cobham suggested. Sorry if I missed it. I was responding to Cobham's referencing the one-sided media perception, but that's really neither here nor there. The problems with the Met are shit-all to do with the media and how they're perceived. If anything, about two-thirds of the media is traditionally entirely pro-police.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 21, 2023 12:35:18 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 21, 2023 12:37:06 GMT
What part of my post didn't already answer that sorry? Well you replied about a headline but nothing to do with what Cobham suggested. Sorry if I missed it. The way I read it, Toxic was picking Cobs up on his suggestion that it was only a minority and that the accusations were being led by a one sided media, when in fact it was the report (not the press) that has found the Met to be INSTITUTIONALLY (their words) racist, sexist and homophobic.
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2023 12:38:04 GMT
Well you replied about a headline but nothing to do with what Cobham suggested. Sorry if I missed it. I was responding to Cobham's referencing the one-sided media perception, but that's really neither here nor there. The problems with the Met are shit-all to do with the media and how they're perceived. If anything, about two-thirds of the media is traditionally entirely pro-police. Good. That's how it should be.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 21, 2023 12:41:23 GMT
I was responding to Cobham's referencing the one-sided media perception, but that's really neither here nor there. The problems with the Met are shit-all to do with the media and how they're perceived. If anything, about two-thirds of the media is traditionally entirely pro-police. Good. That's how it should be. What, even if they're found to be institutionally racist, sexist and homophobic?
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2023 12:43:03 GMT
Good. That's how it should be. What, even if they're found to be institutionally racist, sexist and homophobic? It's not all of them though is it? Don't you think it's unfair to tarnish everyone with the same brush? Or do you think all Met employees are racist, sexist and homophobic?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 21, 2023 12:44:45 GMT
What, even if they're found to be institutionally racist, sexist and homophobic? It's not all of them though is it? Don't you think it's unfair to tarnish everyone with the same brush? Or do you think all Met employees are racist, sexist and homophobic? Who has said it's all of them? But when a report finds it's an institutional problem that's a pretty big deal and speaks to the problems running deeper than just a few bad apples.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 21, 2023 12:47:13 GMT
30 years ago after the Stephen Lawrence affair the Met promised to rid the force of institutional racism, 30 years on they have failed miserably.
Time to take any changes out of their own hands........
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 21, 2023 12:48:39 GMT
What, even if they're found to be institutionally racist, sexist and homophobic? It's not all of them though is it? Don't you think it's unfair to tarnish everyone with the same brush? Or do you think all Met employees are racist, sexist and homophobic? Interesting that chief Rowley who’s been scathing of the Met isn’t acknowledging that it’s institutianional. I see there’s a quote from one of scumbag Carricks victims who’s a serving met officer which nails it for me. She has my utmost respect for the humility of her response. It reads I fully understand how the public can have such low trust and respect for us but beg them to continue to report any crimes and support us. A difficult ask I know! But I ask they keep in their minds, the vast majority of officers are hard-working and keen to do the best job they can. I feel we are let down constantly by our management." “Michelle” Met Police officer who was also a victim of David Carrick. Coming from a lady who has more reason to be bitter and angry than most.
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2023 12:49:25 GMT
It's not all of them though is it? Don't you think it's unfair to tarnish everyone with the same brush? Or do you think all Met employees are racist, sexist and homophobic? Who has said it's all of them? But when a report finds it's an institutional problem that's a pretty big deal and speaks to the problems running deeper than just a few bad apples. Well, I haven't seen you mention anywhere that about those that it doesn't relate to. I agree that there is an issue, but then shouldn't suggestions like Cobs came up with be discussed rather than deflected onto more of the same generalised Met bashing.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 21, 2023 12:52:28 GMT
It's not all of them though is it? Don't you think it's unfair to tarnish everyone with the same brush? Or do you think all Met employees are racist, sexist and homophobic? Interesting that chief Rowley who’s been scathing of the Met isn’t acknowledging that it’s institutianional. Why what's he said Cobs, I've missed that? EDIT: It's okay I've found it. He says that he accepts the report but he doesn't accept that the issues are institutional.🤦♂️ Blimey, can't he see the irony of his comments, when one of the findings of the report was that there was a 'culture of denial' running through the Met. This is a massive problem and things aren't going to get sorted if it is allowed continue.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 21, 2023 12:55:24 GMT
Who has said it's all of them? But when a report finds it's an institutional problem that's a pretty big deal and speaks to the problems running deeper than just a few bad apples. Well, I haven't seen you mention anywhere that about those that it doesn't relate to. I agree that there is an issue, but then shouldn't suggestions like Cobs came up with be discussed rather than deflected onto more of the same generalised Met bashing. The Met deserves bashing though, surely? Unless we're saying now that if we criticise any organisation we have to laboriously go through every single rank and file member of them one by one to painstakingly find some good as well as some bad? I thought some of Cobs' suggestions were good but that he undermined it by bringing the media into it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 21, 2023 12:56:53 GMT
It's not all of them though is it? Don't you think it's unfair to tarnish everyone with the same brush? Or do you think all Met employees are racist, sexist and homophobic? Interesting that chief Rowley who’s been scathing of the Met isn’t acknowledging that it’s institutianional. I see there’s a quote from one of scumbag Carricks victims who’s a serving met officer which nails it for me. She has my utmost respect for the humility of her response. It reads I fully understand how the public can have such low trust and respect for us but beg them to continue to report any crimes and support us. A difficult ask I know! But I ask they keep in their minds, the vast majority of officers are hard-working and keen to do the best job they can. I feel we are let down constantly by our management." “Michelle” Met Police officer who was also a victim of David Carrick. Coming from a lady who has more reason to be bitter and angry than most. It's this that's the important bit, isn't it? That again speaks to widespread, systemic problems that need to be addressed and can't be swept under the carpet.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Mar 21, 2023 13:31:52 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Mar 21, 2023 13:33:29 GMT
Needs disbanding and starting again does the met Best way would be to split them into smaller forces. Biggest problem is there too big. They also need to look at recruitment. One of the biggest issues is due to the low starting salary no one wants to join so to satisfy targets they allow applicants in that if their were higher standards wouldn’t get in. Changes need to be made as these characters identified are making it doubly difficult for the many good officers due to publics perception that they’re all like the minority which isn’t helped by the medias one sided view. I'm sympathetic to the idea of The Met being divided into smaller units, I have said as much on this thread. Your contention that it is the low starting salary which attracts those with lower Standards (or conversely doesn't attract those with Higher Standards) doesn't bear logic when you also contend it is a Rogue Minority. Taking your original proposition to its logical conclusion they would all have Lower Standards The reality is that there are no National Recruitment, Vetting or Retention Standards. Of the several interviews I saw today from serving Police Officers who were substantially in agreement with Casey's Report but none were prepared to be identified by name or face. This suggests to me they and I'm sure many other Police Officers are not prepared to speak out publicly because they will not be greeted sympathetically by their colleagues or supported by their Superiors
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 21, 2023 14:18:59 GMT
Braverman said in the HOC earlier, that she refused to accept that the issues in the Met are 'institutional' but she's just done an interview with Sky, where she said the issues were 'systemic'.
Is she just simply taking the fuckin piss now or is she genuinely as thick as mince? 🤦♂️
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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2023 14:20:32 GMT
Braverman said in the HOC earlier, that she refused to accept that the issues in the Met are 'institutional' but she's just done an interview with Sky, where she said the issues were 'systemic'. Is she just simply just taking the fuckin piss now or is she genuinely as thick as mince? 🤦♂️ Probably inadvertently the first, as a result of being the second edit: Why is mince considered thick?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 21, 2023 14:24:25 GMT
Braverman said in the HOC earlier, that she refused to accept that the issues in the Met are 'institutional' but she's just done an interview with Sky, where she said the issues were 'systemic'. Is she just simply just taking the fuckin piss now or is she genuinely as thick as mince? 🤦♂️ Probably inadvertently the first, as a result of being the second edit: Why is mince considered thick? I have absolutely no idea mate.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 21, 2023 16:17:00 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 21, 2023 16:58:29 GMT
Best way would be to split them into smaller forces. Biggest problem is there too big. They also need to look at recruitment. One of the biggest issues is due to the low starting salary no one wants to join so to satisfy targets they allow applicants in that if their were higher standards wouldn’t get in. Changes need to be made as these characters identified are making it doubly difficult for the many good officers due to publics perception that they’re all like the minority which isn’t helped by the medias one sided view. I'm sympathetic to the idea of The Met being divided into smaller units, I have said as much on this thread. Your contention that it is the low starting salary which attracts those with lower Standards (or conversely doesn't attract those with Higher Standards) doesn't bear logic when you also contend it is a Rogue Minority. Taking your original proposition to its logical conclusion they would all have Lower Standards The reality is that there are no National Recruitment, Vetting or Retention Standards. Of the several interviews I saw today from serving Police Officers who were substantially in agreement with Casey's Report but none were prepared to be identified by name or face. This suggests to me they and I'm sure many other Police Officers are not prepared to speak out publicly because they will not be greeted sympathetically by their colleagues or supported by their Superiors What i’m saying is that in London you can rule out people with more experience of life because if they have mortgages, kids etc they just won’t earn enough money to join on the starting salary offered (a fault of the government). So by paying a low wager they’re limiting a large percentage of people applying who’ve maybe seen more of life who can offer potentially more experience to the role which is vital on the frontline. It’s not meant to be ageist but who would you rather have dealing with a couple in there 30’s a teenage officer or a more mature officer. Who’s going to get the best response in a hostile situation. Just a personal view of course.
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