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Post by foster on Mar 21, 2023 17:16:51 GMT
I'm sympathetic to the idea of The Met being divided into smaller units, I have said as much on this thread. Your contention that it is the low starting salary which attracts those with lower Standards (or conversely doesn't attract those with Higher Standards) doesn't bear logic when you also contend it is a Rogue Minority. Taking your original proposition to its logical conclusion they would all have Lower Standards The reality is that there are no National Recruitment, Vetting or Retention Standards. Of the several interviews I saw today from serving Police Officers who were substantially in agreement with Casey's Report but none were prepared to be identified by name or face. This suggests to me they and I'm sure many other Police Officers are not prepared to speak out publicly because they will not be greeted sympathetically by their colleagues or supported by their Superiors What i’m saying is that in London you can rule out people with more experience of life because if they have mortgages, kids etc they just won’t earn enough money to join on the starting salary offered (a fault of the government). So by paying a low wager they’re limiting a large percentage of people applying who’ve maybe seen more of life who can offer potentially more experience to the role which is vital on the frontline. It’s not meant to be ageist but who would you rather have dealing with a couple in there 30’s a teenage officer or a more mature officer. Who’s going to get the best response in a hostile situation. Just a personal view of course. Your point was obvious and valid mate. Hardly rocket science.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 21, 2023 18:21:50 GMT
I'm sympathetic to the idea of The Met being divided into smaller units, I have said as much on this thread. Your contention that it is the low starting salary which attracts those with lower Standards (or conversely doesn't attract those with Higher Standards) doesn't bear logic when you also contend it is a Rogue Minority. Taking your original proposition to its logical conclusion they would all have Lower Standards The reality is that there are no National Recruitment, Vetting or Retention Standards. Of the several interviews I saw today from serving Police Officers who were substantially in agreement with Casey's Report but none were prepared to be identified by name or face. This suggests to me they and I'm sure many other Police Officers are not prepared to speak out publicly because they will not be greeted sympathetically by their colleagues or supported by their Superiors What i’m saying is that in London you can rule out people with more experience of life because if they have mortgages, kids etc they just won’t earn enough money to join on the starting salary offered (a fault of the government). So by paying a low wager they’re limiting a large percentage of people applying who’ve maybe seen more of life who can offer potentially more experience to the role which is vital on the frontline. It’s not meant to be ageist but who would you rather have dealing with a couple in there 30’s a teenage officer or a more mature officer. Who’s going to get the best response in a hostile situation. Just a personal view of course. A direct result of Tory austerity mate. The Met's budget is 18% lower than it was 10 years ago.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 21, 2023 19:01:42 GMT
I'm sympathetic to the idea of The Met being divided into smaller units, I have said as much on this thread. Your contention that it is the low starting salary which attracts those with lower Standards (or conversely doesn't attract those with Higher Standards) doesn't bear logic when you also contend it is a Rogue Minority. Taking your original proposition to its logical conclusion they would all have Lower Standards The reality is that there are no National Recruitment, Vetting or Retention Standards. Of the several interviews I saw today from serving Police Officers who were substantially in agreement with Casey's Report but none were prepared to be identified by name or face. This suggests to me they and I'm sure many other Police Officers are not prepared to speak out publicly because they will not be greeted sympathetically by their colleagues or supported by their Superiors What i’m saying is that in London you can rule out people with more experience of life because if they have mortgages, kids etc they just won’t earn enough money to join on the starting salary offered (a fault of the government). So by paying a low wager they’re limiting a large percentage of people applying who’ve maybe seen more of life who can offer potentially more experience to the role which is vital on the frontline. It’s not meant to be ageist but who would you rather have dealing with a couple in there 30’s a teenage officer or a more mature officer. Who’s going to get the best response in a hostile situation. Just a personal view of course. I'm now more confused are you saying younger people are more Racist, Misogynistic and or Homophobic? I'm unaware of any profession which by dint of age you receive a higher salary without relevant work experience An entry level Met PC receives a salary of £33,500 rising to £37,000 after probation (6 months?) I'm sure you are aware there is an alternative Recruitment Programme for people you describe with Guaranteed Fast Track to Inspector within 2 years at a salary of £60+K
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 22, 2023 10:33:02 GMT
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Post by franklin on Mar 23, 2023 19:01:47 GMT
Very sad as was the suicide of the young cop charged with assault of the 16yr old lad to the Barnsley v Sheff Wed match.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 23, 2023 20:18:57 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 23, 2023 20:58:46 GMT
There needs to be a change in tact around supporting the mental health of police. It can never be used as an excuse for bad behaviour but it strikes me there’s a problem and that officers need support themselves. Of course it’s a job that people do by choice but there’s a huge amount of trauma officers will experience in there career especially on the frontline. I’d say there needs to be more regular mental health checks and not just when something happens. thehaveringdaily.co.uk/2022/08/26/more-police-officers-lost-to-suicide-than-on-duty/amp/
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Post by wannabee on Mar 23, 2023 23:27:02 GMT
Of course the officer’s out of order but there needs to be a change in tact around supporting the mental health of police. It can never be used as an excuse for bad behaviour but it strikes me there’s a problem and that officers need support themselves. Of course it’s a job that people do by choice but there’s a huge amount of trauma officers will experience in there career especially on the frontline. I’d say there needs to be more regular mental health checks and not just when something happens. thehaveringdaily.co.uk/2022/08/26/more-police-officers-lost-to-suicide-than-on-duty/amp/There is no doubt being a Police Officer is a stressful Job I'm not entirely sure which angle you are coming from Are you saying the Police Officer attacked the young lad because he was suffering from Mental Illness, or Having attacked the young lad it caused him to have a mental trauma which ultimately led to him committing suicide A very recent report in The Lancet indicates that PTSD amongst Police Officers is potentially what leads to their Domestic Abuse and Abusive Policing www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(23)00099-8/fulltext
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 23, 2023 23:46:50 GMT
Of course the officer’s out of order but there needs to be a change in tact around supporting the mental health of police. It can never be used as an excuse for bad behaviour but it strikes me there’s a problem and that officers need support themselves. Of course it’s a job that people do by choice but there’s a huge amount of trauma officers will experience in there career especially on the frontline. I’d say there needs to be more regular mental health checks and not just when something happens. thehaveringdaily.co.uk/2022/08/26/more-police-officers-lost-to-suicide-than-on-duty/amp/There is no doubt being a Police Officer is a stressful Job I'm not entirely sure which angle you are coming from Are you saying the Police Officer attacked the young lad because he was suffering from Mental Illness, or Having attacked the young lad it caused him to have a mental trauma which ultimately led to him committing suicide A very recent report in The Lancet indicates that PTSD amongst Police Officers is potentially what leads to their Domestic Abuse and Abusive Policing www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(23)00099-8/fulltextI guess what I’m saying is that trauma can affect people in different ways and that when your witnessing it regularly there will always be a reaction and impact on an officers mental health whether it’s in the worst way possible when someone takes there own life, has a breakdown or just snaps in the totally wrong way. As I said previously it should never be used as an excuse as there has to be some responsibility on the officer to admit there’s a problem with them however people are proud and sometimes especially in a role where you’re expected to be tough they’re not good at acknowledging it. it strikes me from what I’ve heard that the support is reactionary rather than proactive. The young officer that took his own life’s actions were clearly indefenceable but tragic in that he felt taking his own life was the only way out.
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Post by franklin on Mar 24, 2023 6:31:04 GMT
Of course the officer’s out of order but there needs to be a change in tact around supporting the mental health of police. It can never be used as an excuse for bad behaviour but it strikes me there’s a problem and that officers need support themselves. Of course it’s a job that people do by choice but there’s a huge amount of trauma officers will experience in there career especially on the frontline. I’d say there needs to be more regular mental health checks and not just when something happens. thehaveringdaily.co.uk/2022/08/26/more-police-officers-lost-to-suicide-than-on-duty/amp/I'd just like to point out the "use of force" used had been accessed as proportionate by an expert having accessed the circumstances not sure who that may have been, the young man was subject to an unrelated domestic abuse allegation which is thought to have been the straw that broke the camels back.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 24, 2023 6:51:48 GMT
Of course the officer’s out of order but there needs to be a change in tact around supporting the mental health of police. It can never be used as an excuse for bad behaviour but it strikes me there’s a problem and that officers need support themselves. Of course it’s a job that people do by choice but there’s a huge amount of trauma officers will experience in there career especially on the frontline. I’d say there needs to be more regular mental health checks and not just when something happens. thehaveringdaily.co.uk/2022/08/26/more-police-officers-lost-to-suicide-than-on-duty/amp/I'd just like to point out the "use of force" used had been accessed as proportionate by an expert having accessed the circumstances not sure who that may have been the young man was subject to an unrelated domestic abuse allegation which is thought to have been the straw that broke the camels back. It looks like the inquest has been heard and you’re quite right. I stand corrected. www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/sheffield-police-officer-who-killed-26544757.ampIt’s appaling that he received death threats after his address was published on social media.
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Post by yeswilko on Mar 24, 2023 9:53:32 GMT
There needs to be a change in tact around supporting the mental health of police. It can never be used as an excuse for bad behaviour but it strikes me there’s a problem and that officers need support themselves. Of course it’s a job that people do by choice but there’s a huge amount of trauma officers will experience in there career especially on the frontline. I’d say there needs to be more regular mental health checks and not just when something happens. thehaveringdaily.co.uk/2022/08/26/more-police-officers-lost-to-suicide-than-on-duty/amp/All the emergency services should receive top professional mental health support. I have family in the police that have been through some really difficult cases, and a fireman I was talking to a couple of months ago was telling me about some of the things he's been involved in (he's an ex army sniper), like pulling bodies from canals, lots of fatal car crashes etc. Just awful. He said you have to develope a pretty sick sense of humour as a way to deal with it. Getting the right support in place takes real funding though of course.
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Post by elystokie on Mar 24, 2023 10:27:51 GMT
There needs to be a change in tact around supporting the mental health of police. It can never be used as an excuse for bad behaviour but it strikes me there’s a problem and that officers need support themselves. Of course it’s a job that people do by choice but there’s a huge amount of trauma officers will experience in there career especially on the frontline. I’d say there needs to be more regular mental health checks and not just when something happens. thehaveringdaily.co.uk/2022/08/26/more-police-officers-lost-to-suicide-than-on-duty/amp/All the emergency services should receive top professional mental health support. I have family in the police that have been through some really difficult cases, and a fireman I was talking to a couple of months ago was telling me about some of the things he's been involved in (he's an ex army sniper), like pulling bodies from canals, lots of fatal car crashes etc. Just awful. He said you have to develope a pretty sick sense of humour as a way to deal with it. Getting the right support in place takes real funding though of course. A neighbour of mine in East Anglia was/is a firefighter, he visited me several times after he'd had a particularly tough shift, most of the time he needed a chat and a hug to get through the immediate aftermath, I don't doubt he'll need a lot more help long term. If there isn't a dedicated mental health service to provide help for people in need in all of the emergency services there should be.
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Post by wannabee on Mar 24, 2023 10:37:55 GMT
Of course the officer’s out of order but there needs to be a change in tact around supporting the mental health of police. It can never be used as an excuse for bad behaviour but it strikes me there’s a problem and that officers need support themselves. Of course it’s a job that people do by choice but there’s a huge amount of trauma officers will experience in there career especially on the frontline. I’d say there needs to be more regular mental health checks and not just when something happens. thehaveringdaily.co.uk/2022/08/26/more-police-officers-lost-to-suicide-than-on-duty/amp/I'd just like to point out the "use of force" used had been accessed as proportionate by an expert having accessed the circumstances not sure who that may have been, the young man was subject to an unrelated domestic abuse allegation which is thought to have been the straw that broke the camels back.Quite correct, which is why I linked the Lancet Article above which indicates if a PC is suffering from a mental disorder it can lead to Abusive Policing and Domestic Abuse Whether this particular PC was suffering from PTSD which led to his behaviours we can only speculate
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 24, 2023 14:03:08 GMT
All the emergency services should receive top professional mental health support. I have family in the police that have been through some really difficult cases, and a fireman I was talking to a couple of months ago was telling me about some of the things he's been involved in (he's an ex army sniper), like pulling bodies from canals, lots of fatal car crashes etc. Just awful. He said you have to develope a pretty sick sense of humour as a way to deal with it. Getting the right support in place takes real funding though of course. A neighbour of mine in East Anglia was/is a firefighter, he visited me several times after he'd had a particularly tough shift, most of the time he needed a chat and a hug to get through the immediate aftermath, I don't doubt he'll need a lot more help long term. If there isn't a dedicated mental health service to provide help for people in need in all of the emergency services there should be. The thing is when its someone’s livelihood and there are concerns around loss of OT as they’re on light duties etc, taking home enough money to pay the mortgage or getting xmas presents for the kids it’s a difficult decision to make admitting you can’t cope and taking yourself out of the firing line. Things need to change starting with pay. Those who live in the south east in particular are living hand to mouth particularly if they’re young in service.
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Post by elystokie on Mar 24, 2023 14:24:30 GMT
A neighbour of mine in East Anglia was/is a firefighter, he visited me several times after he'd had a particularly tough shift, most of the time he needed a chat and a hug to get through the immediate aftermath, I don't doubt he'll need a lot more help long term. If there isn't a dedicated mental health service to provide help for people in need in all of the emergency services there should be. The thing is when its someone’s livelihood and there are concerns around loss of OT as they’re on light duties etc, taking home enough money to pay the mortgage or getting xmas presents for the kids it’s a difficult decision to make admitting you can’t cope and taking yourself out of the firing line. Things need to change starting with pay. Those who live in the south east in particular are living hand to mouth particularly if they’re young in service. The bloke I was talking about ended up having at least 6 months off sick, don't know if they put it down to stress or the alcoholism it possibly caused, his marriage break up won't have helped either. It's a quandary re the overtime and surviving financially, that's where a dedicated mental health service would be useful. Of course one of the answers is a bigger budget but that's no vote winner cos it means higher taxes and there's an election looming. Another answer is to stop spending money on the war on drugs that's unwinnable and does more harm than good and let the police we do have concentrate on crimes where people actually intentionally harm each other, we can then pay them more for doing so because we'll need less of them.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 24, 2023 17:44:01 GMT
The thing is when its someone’s livelihood and there are concerns around loss of OT as they’re on light duties etc, taking home enough money to pay the mortgage or getting xmas presents for the kids it’s a difficult decision to make admitting you can’t cope and taking yourself out of the firing line. Things need to change starting with pay. Those who live in the south east in particular are living hand to mouth particularly if they’re young in service. The bloke I was talking about ended up having at least 6 months off sick, don't know if they put it down to stress or the alcoholism it possibly caused, his marriage break up won't have helped either. It's a quandary re the overtime and surviving financially, that's where a dedicated mental health service would be useful. Of course one of the answers is a bigger budget but that's no vote winner cos it means higher taxes and there's an election looming. Another answer is to stop spending money on the war on drugs that's unwinnable and does more harm than good and let the police we do have concentrate on crimes where people actually intentionally harm each other, we can then pay them more for doing so because we'll need less of them. Not less officers. They might just get the job done to a better standard because they’re managing too much and constantly firefighting.
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Post by elystokie on Mar 24, 2023 18:19:28 GMT
The bloke I was talking about ended up having at least 6 months off sick, don't know if they put it down to stress or the alcoholism it possibly caused, his marriage break up won't have helped either. It's a quandary re the overtime and surviving financially, that's where a dedicated mental health service would be useful. Of course one of the answers is a bigger budget but that's no vote winner cos it means higher taxes and there's an election looming. Another answer is to stop spending money on the war on drugs that's unwinnable and does more harm than good and let the police we do have concentrate on crimes where people actually intentionally harm each other, we can then pay them more for doing so because we'll need less of them. Not less officers. They might just get the job done to a better standard because they’re managing too much and constantly firefighting. Yes, sorry, didn't qualify that properly, it might have been better if I'd said 'comparitively less'.
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Post by franklin on Mar 24, 2023 18:28:31 GMT
All the emergency services should receive top professional mental health support. I have family in the police that have been through some really difficult cases, and a fireman I was talking to a couple of months ago was telling me about some of the things he's been involved in (he's an ex army sniper), like pulling bodies from canals, lots of fatal car crashes etc. Just awful. He said you have to develope a pretty sick sense of humour as a way to deal with it. Getting the right support in place takes real funding though of course. A neighbour of mine in East Anglia was/is a firefighter, he visited me several times after he'd had a particularly tough shift, most of the time he needed a chat and a hug to get through the immediate aftermath, I don't doubt he'll need a lot more help long term. If there isn't a dedicated mental health service to provide help for people in need in all of the emergency services there should be. Most do have a dedicated system however my twice yearly mental health checks were totally inadequate. I was in two specialist roles involving fatal incidents murder/ manslaughter and or vehicle related accidents and I was basically asked " How are you" that's it 5mins in an office no wonder 25% of my shift were on anti depression medication and still front line aswell.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 24, 2023 18:46:11 GMT
It’s pretty tough on the soul for a good and decent officer going out on the frontline to do a really difficult job where you risk being assaulted, abused and witnessing things on a daily basis that some people never see in a lifetime only to be told that you’re all the same and being branded with the likes of Cousens or Carrick. For the good uns and there are plenty it’s heartbreaking.
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Post by franklin on Mar 24, 2023 18:49:12 GMT
It’s pretty tough on the soul for a good and decent officer going out on the frontline to do a really difficult job where you risk being assaulted, abused and witnessing things on a daily basis that some people never see in a lifetime only to be told that you’re all the same and being branded with the likes of Cousens or Carrick. For the good uns and there are plenty it’s heartbreaking. True mate I've spoken to many of my old work mates and not one has anything positive to say most are just treading water in their last few years desperate for retirement to come. Really sad to see my old shift disintegrate in a few short years.
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Post by elystokie on Mar 24, 2023 18:50:23 GMT
A neighbour of mine in East Anglia was/is a firefighter, he visited me several times after he'd had a particularly tough shift, most of the time he needed a chat and a hug to get through the immediate aftermath, I don't doubt he'll need a lot more help long term. If there isn't a dedicated mental health service to provide help for people in need in all of the emergency services there should be. Most do have a dedicated system however my twice yearly mental health checks were totally inadequate. I was in two specialist roles involving fatal incidents murder/ manslaughter and or vehicle related accidents and I was basically asked " How are you" that's it 5mins in an office no wonder 25% of my shift were on anti depression medication and still front line aswell. D'you think it was lack of qualified staff, lack of funding or something else that needed improving, obviously dramatically?
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Post by franklin on Mar 24, 2023 19:00:01 GMT
Most do have a dedicated system however my twice yearly mental health checks were totally inadequate. I was in two specialist roles involving fatal incidents murder/ manslaughter and or vehicle related accidents and I was basically asked " How are you" that's it 5mins in an office no wonder 25% of my shift were on anti depression medication and still front line aswell. D'you think it was lack of qualified staff, lack of funding or something else that needed improving, obviously dramatically? I'm not sure mate its probably a combination of all of the above. The increased workload imho is the main culprit however its not crime investigations in "your tray" but the massively increased incidental work they have to carry out now. Too many people sticking their oar in your work telling you how, when and what to do daily. Its pressure they can do without constant micro management and being frank teaching people how to suck eggs more often than not. Policing is down to an officer using discretion working within the laws to resolve matters that's gone now imo you're constantly being watched and that pressure of making a mistake every day is soul destroying.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Mar 24, 2023 19:05:06 GMT
Quite frankly this country could benefit from experienced cops like these pair.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 24, 2023 19:06:57 GMT
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Post by elystokie on Mar 24, 2023 19:10:07 GMT
D'you think it was lack of qualified staff, lack of funding or something else that needed improving, obviously dramatically? I'm not sure mate its probably a combination of all of the above. The increased workload imho is the main culprit however its not crime investigations in "your tray" but the massively increased incidental work they have to carry out now. Too many people sticking their oar in your work telling you how, when and what to do daily. Its pressure they can do without constant micro management and being frank teaching people how to suck eggs more often than not. Policing is down to an officer using discretion working within the laws to resolve matters that's gone now imo you're constantly being watched and that pressure of making a mistake every day is soul destroying. Yeh, that's pretty much what the policewoman on QT said last night iirc For me they need to hand the drug stuff over to the health service or set something up separately, making it a legal issue just increases criminality and, certainly in the case of softer drugs, probably harms the relationship between the police and the public. But the mental health issue for the emergency services needs properly assessing and funding, urgently by the sounds of it.
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Post by franklin on Mar 24, 2023 19:43:35 GMT
I'm not sure mate its probably a combination of all of the above. The increased workload imho is the main culprit however its not crime investigations in "your tray" but the massively increased incidental work they have to carry out now. Too many people sticking their oar in your work telling you how, when and what to do daily. Its pressure they can do without constant micro management and being frank teaching people how to suck eggs more often than not. Policing is down to an officer using discretion working within the laws to resolve matters that's gone now imo you're constantly being watched and that pressure of making a mistake every day is soul destroying. Yeh, that's pretty much what the policewoman on QT said last night iirc For me they need to hand the drug stuff over to the health service or set something up separately, making it a legal issue just increases criminality and, certainly in the case of softer drugs, probably harms the relationship between the police and the public. But the mental health issue for the emergency services needs properly assessing and funding, urgently by the sounds of it. I'll be honest pal cops have always suffered with stress and things like depression as you would expect however the constant undermining of a cops work destroys thier self confidence to actually do the job. It takes away the ability to think on your feet and they are constantly doubting if they've done the right thing. As a result you breed cops who need to be told how to police every day rather than cracking on with it. I'm not sure if you remember our conversation way back in Singa but I've always been quite Liberal as far as low level drug use was and I genuinely think MH issues are not a police matter way too much already for them to do and its only getting worse with all the crap regarding being offended by everything the introduction of "none crime" incident reporting was a joke.
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Post by foster on Mar 24, 2023 19:46:38 GMT
Yeh, that's pretty much what the policewoman on QT said last night iirc For me they need to hand the drug stuff over to the health service or set something up separately, making it a legal issue just increases criminality and, certainly in the case of softer drugs, probably harms the relationship between the police and the public. But the mental health issue for the emergency services needs properly assessing and funding, urgently by the sounds of it. I'll be honest pal cops have always suffered with stress and things like depression as you would expect however the constant undermining of a cops work destroys thier self confidence to actually do the job. It takes away the ability to think on your feet and they are constantly doubting if they've done the right thing. As a result you breed cops who need to be told how to police every day rather than cracking on with it. I'm not sure if you remember our conversation way back in Singa but I've always been quite Liberal as far as low level drug use was and I genuinely think MH issues are not a police matter way too much already for them to do and its only getting worse with all the crap regarding being offended by everything the introduction of "none crime" incident reporting was a joke. As someone with experience, what do you think about stop and search mate?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 24, 2023 19:49:48 GMT
Yeh, that's pretty much what the policewoman on QT said last night iirc For me they need to hand the drug stuff over to the health service or set something up separately, making it a legal issue just increases criminality and, certainly in the case of softer drugs, probably harms the relationship between the police and the public. But the mental health issue for the emergency services needs properly assessing and funding, urgently by the sounds of it. I'll be honest pal cops have always suffered with stress and things like depression as you would expect however the constant undermining of a cops work destroys thier self confidence to actually do the job. It takes away the ability to think on your feet and they are constantly doubting if they've done the right thing. As a result you breed cops who need to be told how to police every day rather than cracking on with it. I'm not sure if you remember our conversation way back in Singa but I've always been quite Liberal as far as low level drug use was and I genuinely think MH issues are not a police matter way too much already for them to do and its only getting worse with all the crap regarding being offended by everything the introduction of "none crime" incident reporting was a joke. As well as being police they’re also Social Services Mental health professionals Teachers Child minders Marriage Guidence Paramedics WWF the list goes on
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Post by franklin on Mar 24, 2023 19:50:04 GMT
I'll be honest pal cops have always suffered with stress and things like depression as you would expect however the constant undermining of a cops work destroys thier self confidence to actually do the job. It takes away the ability to think on your feet and they are constantly doubting if they've done the right thing. As a result you breed cops who need to be told how to police every day rather than cracking on with it. I'm not sure if you remember our conversation way back in Singa but I've always been quite Liberal as far as low level drug use was and I genuinely think MH issues are not a police matter way too much already for them to do and its only getting worse with all the crap regarding being offended by everything the introduction of "none crime" incident reporting was a joke. As someone with experience, what do you think about stop and search mate? Crucial part of a cops armory, don't see anyway to effectively police without it mate yes some abuse it but that's no reason or excuse to bin it off. Train the crap cops to do it right but for goodness sake don't take it away from the good ones because of them.
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