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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 5, 2022 9:53:07 GMT
The French have always been the same with regard to International crises and exhibit a tendancy to sit on the fence. They like to appear to be strong whilst in reality dithering and actually doing very little. During the first Gulf war to liberate Kuwait, the Western powers rallied around to create an armed coalition, with forces contributions. The French symbolically sent an Aircraft Carrier, but didn't put any aircraft on it. Also who can forget the Falklands conflict, when the French happily armed the Argentinians, supplying them with both Super Etendard warplanes and Exocet missiles. I was interested in what you said and wondered if it was the usual French being the French (like with them supplying the Argentinians etc) and checked it out. Wikipedia says they sent 18,000 troops. The second largest European contingent. As the operation to free Kuwait developed the French Army and forces were very much involved in the land war. But certainly in the initial phases of the emergency France seemed very hesitant regarding the role and legitimacy of its deployment. Immediately after the invasion of Kuwait France committed the Aircraft Carrier Clemencau to the Gulf, along with a couple of supporting Frigates, but the Carrier was only carrying a small Helicopter force with Marines, and was used to intercept Gulf Shipping in stop and search operations. The ship was not there to present an aggressive posture or intimidate, and its appearance there and presence was largely symbolic. Or so I heard.
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Post by lordb on Jun 5, 2022 9:56:08 GMT
The smaller nations have really rallied round though I think that's a harsh assessment of Germany anyway, they have had 70 years of Ostpolitik and a non military ideology has become Germany identity To go from that to the measures they have taken and more importantly the words that right across German politics (even the greens) have said is astonishing. Putin has pushed Europe but especially Germany so far away from their influence its an enormous own goal by Russia The French.. meh The French have always been the same with regard to International crises and exhibit a tendancy to sit on the fence. They like to appear to be strong whilst in reality dithering and actually doing very little. During the first Gulf war to liberate Kuwait, the Western powers rallied around to create an armed coalition, with forces contributions. The French symbolically sent an Aircraft Carrier, but didn't put any aircraft on it. Also who can forget the Falklands conflict, when the French happily armed the Argentinians, supplying them with both Super Etendard warplanes and Exocet missiles. Had the Argies already bought them or did the French continue to sell them during the war? Genuinely can't remember
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Post by lordb on Jun 5, 2022 9:56:34 GMT
They don't need to get them out by force, the Russians will leave eventually of their own accord Will be a long haul Well, they are still to piss off out of Crimea, 2014 and counting! I did say long haul
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Post by lordb on Jun 5, 2022 9:57:51 GMT
The smaller nations have really rallied round though I think that's a harsh assessment of Germany anyway, they have had 70 years of Ostpolitik and a non military ideology has become Germany identity To go from that to the measures they have taken and more importantly the words that right across German politics (even the greens) have said is astonishing. Putin has pushed Europe but especially Germany so far away from their influence its an enormous own goal by Russia The French.. meh I think you are being soft on Germany. Despite Russia annexing parts of Georgia and the Crimea, Germany has pushed ahead with Nord Stream 2 increasing their dependency on Russia, ignoring objections and warnings from America. As for France, Vichy France is still alive and kicking. Macron has been appeasing for months: www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/08/emmanuel-macron-remark-russia-set-alarm-bell-ringing-ukraine-crisis-talk-vladimir-putinStill it wins votes with the French people. France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Croatia, Finland, Slovakia and Spain – to different extents – have sold “military equipment” to Russia since 2014. www.investigate-europe.eu/en/2022/eu-states-exported-weapons-to-russia/But the point is all that has changed, especially in Germany, as a direct result of Putins war
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 5, 2022 10:00:21 GMT
The French may be our Allies in recent history, but going back they occupy a position as our natural enemies, and my own opinion is that they are a duplicitous self interested nation, whom we should never fully trust.
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Post by lordb on Jun 5, 2022 10:03:55 GMT
The French may be our Allies in recent history, but going back they occupy a position as our natural enemies, and my own opinion is that they are a duplicitous self interested nation, whom we should never fully trust. They will, and do, say exactly the same about us
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 5, 2022 10:07:46 GMT
The French have always been the same with regard to International crises and exhibit a tendancy to sit on the fence. They like to appear to be strong whilst in reality dithering and actually doing very little. During the first Gulf war to liberate Kuwait, the Western powers rallied around to create an armed coalition, with forces contributions. The French symbolically sent an Aircraft Carrier, but didn't put any aircraft on it. Also who can forget the Falklands conflict, when the French happily armed the Argentinians, supplying them with both Super Etendard warplanes and Exocet missiles. Had the Argies already bought them or did the French continue to sell them during the war? Genuinely can't remember I'm not sure, but the French would have had service and maintenance contracts for their supplied arms, and I believe that the missiles were still being shipped. France certainly didn't tear up any supply or support contracts as a sanction against Argentina.
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Post by thevoid on Jun 5, 2022 11:42:12 GMT
The French may be our Allies in recent history, but going back they occupy a position as our natural enemies, and my own opinion is that they are a duplicitous self interested nation, whom we should never fully trust. They will, and do, say exactly the same about us And so they should. The French are not our friends
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Post by thevoid on Jun 5, 2022 11:43:33 GMT
The smaller nations have really rallied round though I think that's a harsh assessment of Germany anyway, they have had 70 years of Ostpolitik and a non military ideology has become Germany identity To go from that to the measures they have taken and more importantly the words that right across German politics (even the greens) have said is astonishing. Putin has pushed Europe but especially Germany so far away from their influence its an enormous own goal by Russia The French.. meh The French have always been the same with regard to International crises and exhibit a tendancy to sit on the fence. They like to appear to be strong whilst in reality dithering and actually doing very little. During the first Gulf war to liberate Kuwait, the Western powers rallied around to create an armed coalition, with forces contributions. The French symbolically sent an Aircraft Carrier, but didn't put any aircraft on it. Also who can forget the Falklands conflict, when the French happily armed the Argentinians, supplying them with both Super Etendard warplanes and Exocet missiles. They're ok when they're sabre-rattling at Jersey. Flat track bullies.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 5, 2022 11:50:04 GMT
So Russia are throwing the in service from 1961 and can be knocked out by a normal RPG T-62 tanks. Desperate stuff.
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Post by Gods on Jun 5, 2022 11:50:36 GMT
Kyiv under attack again, these bastards are far from done.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jun 5, 2022 12:11:16 GMT
I think you are being soft on Germany. Despite Russia annexing parts of Georgia and the Crimea, Germany has pushed ahead with Nord Stream 2 increasing their dependency on Russia, ignoring objections and warnings from America. As for France, Vichy France is still alive and kicking. Macron has been appeasing for months: www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/08/emmanuel-macron-remark-russia-set-alarm-bell-ringing-ukraine-crisis-talk-vladimir-putinStill it wins votes with the French people. France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Croatia, Finland, Slovakia and Spain – to different extents – have sold “military equipment” to Russia since 2014. www.investigate-europe.eu/en/2022/eu-states-exported-weapons-to-russia/But the point is all that has changed, especially in Germany, as a direct result of Putins war It hasn’t really though Lord. France’s Macron already calling for Putin not to be humiliated And Germanys response has been completely underwhelming I agree with a previous poster who suggested that the West wouldn’t be adverse to Russia getting involved in a long protracted war. It’s ridiculous that they are still funding his war by buying his gas.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 5, 2022 12:32:58 GMT
The French may be our Allies in recent history, but going back they occupy a position as our natural enemies, and my own opinion is that they are a duplicitous self interested nation, whom we should never fully trust. They will, and do, say exactly the same about us Quite right. I worked for Lafarge for 7 years and had a French boss in Paris. I was surprised at how much enmity there is to the UK, maybe deserved. But on a personal basis we can be very friendly. It used to be said de Gaulle could not get over the fact that France owed so much to Britain and America repulsing Germany twice in world wars and liberating France. I think the enmity is more deep rooted. Back in the 11th century France was a far more populous and advanced country than England, but was deeply divided as England had been in the first millennium. The Norman's conquered England and started building stone castles, etc., and for many years retained claim to ownership of Normandy, which was much bigger then, and Burgundy. Wars ensued for centuries with the French monarchy eventually taking sovereignty of the whole of modern day France. But bitter defeats/massacres were suffered at Poitiers, Agincourt, and eventually the quashing of Napoleon at Waterloo, in alliance with the Prussians. We seem to have stopped teaching history in UK schools these days, and seem to be ashamed about our past empire, but the French are very proud of their heritage, but maybe disgruntled that more of the globe was red and spoke English in the 19th century, than blue and speaking French, which they still regard as the true international language.
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Post by questionable on Jun 5, 2022 12:52:09 GMT
But the point is all that has changed, especially in Germany, as a direct result of Putins war It hasn’t really though Lord. France’s Macron already calling for Putin not to be humiliated And Germanys response has been completely underwhelming I agree with a previous poster who suggested that the West wouldn’t be adverse to Russia getting involved in a long protracted war. It’s ridiculous that they are still funding his war by buying his gas. Year end estimates that Russia will be losing 4.5 billion a month on not exporting oil to the E.U. so with countries sourcing their gas elsewhere and other goods not being imported/exported from Russia they’re probably looking at around losing 6 billion a month, surely they can’t take that kind of hit, well I hope they can’t anyway.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 5, 2022 13:18:50 GMT
They will, and do, say exactly the same about us Quite right. I worked for Lafarge for 7 years and had a French boss in Paris. I was surprised at how much enmity there is to the UK, maybe deserved. But on a personal basis we can be very friendly. It used to be said de Gaulle could not get over the fact that France owed so much to Britain and America repulsing Germany twice in world wars and liberating France. I think the enmity is more deep rooted. Back in the 11th century France was a far more populous and advanced country than England, but was deeply divided as England had been in the first millennium. The Norman's conquered England and started building stone castles, etc., and for many years retained claim to ownership of Normandy, which was much bigger then, and Burgundy. Wars ensued for centuries with the French monarchy eventually taking sovereignty of the whole of modern day France. But bitter defeats/massacres were suffered at Poitiers, Agincourt, and eventually the quashing of Napoleon at Waterloo, in alliance with the Prussians. We seem to have stopped teaching history in UK schools these days, and seem to be ashamed about our past empire, but the French are very proud of their heritage, but maybe disgruntled that more of the globe was red and spoke English in the 19th century, than blue and speaking French, which they still regard as the true international language. 😊 I think that French is still used Internationally as the Diplomatic language, but English is otherwise the most widely used. For example on all regular Passenger and Commercial airline flights, English is used, except for Russian internal flights. And as regards pride in their heritage, perhaps not so much. I went to the Military Museum in Paris a few years back and it was all very impressive. As you enter the main hall there was a static display of lifesize waxwork figures of mounted Soldiers on Horseback in period military dress, and information plaques detailing the history and battle honours of the Regiments of the Line. Throughout the whole place I couldn't find a single mention of Waterloo!
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 5, 2022 13:31:19 GMT
Quite right. I worked for Lafarge for 7 years and had a French boss in Paris. I was surprised at how much enmity there is to the UK, maybe deserved. But on a personal basis we can be very friendly. It used to be said de Gaulle could not get over the fact that France owed so much to Britain and America repulsing Germany twice in world wars and liberating France. I think the enmity is more deep rooted. Back in the 11th century France was a far more populous and advanced country than England, but was deeply divided as England had been in the first millennium. The Norman's conquered England and started building stone castles, etc., and for many years retained claim to ownership of Normandy, which was much bigger then, and Burgundy. Wars ensued for centuries with the French monarchy eventually taking sovereignty of the whole of modern day France. But bitter defeats/massacres were suffered at Poitiers, Agincourt, and eventually the quashing of Napoleon at Waterloo, in alliance with the Prussians. We seem to have stopped teaching history in UK schools these days, and seem to be ashamed about our past empire, but the French are very proud of their heritage, but maybe disgruntled that more of the globe was red and spoke English in the 19th century, than blue and speaking French, which they still regard as the true international language. 😊 I think that French is still used Internationally as the Diplomatic language, but English is otherwise the most widely used. For example on all regular Passenger and Commercial airline flights, English is used, except for Russian internal flights. And as regards pride in their heritage, perhaps not so much. I went to the Military Museum in Paris a few years back and it was all very impressive. As you enter the main hall there was a static display of lifesize waxwork figures of mounted Soldiers on Horseback in period military dress, and information plaques detailing the history and battle honours of the Regiments of the Line. Throughout the whole place I couldn't find a single mention of Waterloo! They say history is always written by the victor. Each country has their own version. According to Russian history they beat Hitler and the western front was a sideshow! Waterloo was one of the biggest victories in German history, when Blucher came to the rescue of the British who were getting thrashed by Napoleon. Another massive victory in German history is Dunkirk when Germany drove the British empire forces into the sea.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 5, 2022 14:02:59 GMT
😊 I think that French is still used Internationally as the Diplomatic language, but English is otherwise the most widely used. For example on all regular Passenger and Commercial airline flights, English is used, except for Russian internal flights. And as regards pride in their heritage, perhaps not so much. I went to the Military Museum in Paris a few years back and it was all very impressive. As you enter the main hall there was a static display of lifesize waxwork figures of mounted Soldiers on Horseback in period military dress, and information plaques detailing the history and battle honours of the Regiments of the Line. Throughout the whole place I couldn't find a single mention of Waterloo! They say history is always written by the victor. Each country has their own version. According to Russian history they beat Hitler and the western front was a sideshow! Waterloo was one of the biggest victories in German history, when Blucher came to the rescue of the British who were getting thrashed by Napoleon. Another massive victory in German history is Dunkirk when Germany drove the British empire forces into the sea. it's the Soviet Union's part in the 2nd World War that's been airbrushed from history to be fair, they don't even get an acknowledgment in some quarters despite the gruelling fighting and devastating losses......
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 5, 2022 16:40:17 GMT
It hasn’t really though Lord. France’s Macron already calling for Putin not to be humiliated And Germanys response has been completely underwhelming I agree with a previous poster who suggested that the West wouldn’t be adverse to Russia getting involved in a long protracted war. It’s ridiculous that they are still funding his war by buying his gas. Year end estimates that Russia will be losing 4.5 billion a month on not exporting oil to the E.U. so with countries sourcing their gas elsewhere and other goods not being imported/exported from Russia they’re probably looking at around losing 6 billion a month, surely they can’t take that kind of hit, well I hope they can’t anyway. Before the war the Russian government was making piles of cash every month. The surge in oil prices has been like a sugar rush but it's coming to an end. Last month their finance head predicted that they'd lose money over the whole year. This must mean they'll be gushing red ink in the later months of the year as European sanctions bite harder.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 5, 2022 16:49:12 GMT
Kyiv under attack again, these bastards are far from done. Last night's launch included lots of older cruise missiles. Is Russia running short of modern kit? Or is it just saving it and burning through its old ones?
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 5, 2022 16:59:16 GMT
Incredible news from Sievierodonetsk. The Russians just walked in and it seemed calm, then suddenly the Ukrainians counterattacked. There's video showing intense fighting on streets that the Ukrainians had abandoned.
The current guess is that Ukraine let Russia in after working out all grid coordinates etc for artillery. The Russians were then taken by surprise and got blown to crap and then pushed back. And some fighters there said they were intentionally getting very close to the Russians in the streets so that it was hard for Russian aircraft to bomb them.
No idea what's really going on except that Russia still hasn't taken the city it thought it owned last week. And every delay is more time for Ukrainians to get better equipped.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 5, 2022 17:13:21 GMT
And this is breaking news so may not be true but it’s coming from Russian sources. Another general killed and this time in the region in this small pocket. Shows the sacrifice for such a small piece of land.
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Post by musik on Jun 5, 2022 17:39:13 GMT
Why don't they just stop this madness?
🤔
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 5, 2022 17:42:26 GMT
Why don't they just stop this madness? 🤔 Because they want to wipe Ukraine off the map?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 5, 2022 17:46:32 GMT
Their air superiority is going well too.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 5, 2022 17:50:24 GMT
So Russia are throwing the in service from 1961 and can be knocked out by a normal RPG T-62 tanks. Desperate stuff. First one down 😂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 18:29:58 GMT
Let's hope evil Ukraine lose this war and all their nazi followers get defeated and the greedy usa arms manufacturers no longer profit from this war. A lot of you idiots on here will still be hoping the opposite tho and hoping to prolong the war by giving more and more weapons to Ukraine.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 5, 2022 18:38:23 GMT
Let's hope evil Ukraine lose this war and all their nazi followers get defeated and the greedy usa arms manufacturers no longer profit from this war. A lot of you idiots on here will still be hoping the opposite tho and hoping to prolong the war by giving more and more weapons to Ukraine. 😂😂😂show us your working
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 5, 2022 18:41:36 GMT
Their air superiority is going well too. If there are two things I've learned from this whole thing they are "idi na hui" (go sit on a dick) and "cyka blyat" (...shit whore I think?). It makes a difference from hearing someone scream "allahu ackbar" after something explodes.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 5, 2022 18:44:46 GMT
Let's hope evil Ukraine lose this war and all their nazi followers get defeated and the greedy usa arms manufacturers no longer profit from this war. A lot of you idiots on here will still be hoping the opposite tho and hoping to prolong the war by giving more and more weapons to Ukraine. The US had people like you during WWII hoping for a quick Nazi victory over Britain too.
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Post by butlerstbob on Jun 5, 2022 20:36:51 GMT
Let's hope evil Ukraine lose this war and all their nazi followers get defeated and the greedy usa arms manufacturers no longer profit from this war. A lot of you idiots on here will still be hoping the opposite tho and hoping to prolong the war by giving more and more weapons to Ukraine. How about you and putin go fuck yourselves to death?! The more arms we the us and Europe supply the more chance Ukrainian can blow the scum to bits!
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