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Post by satoshi on Dec 11, 2023 12:33:30 GMT
If that yanks don’t want it, it aint happening. Which they probably don’t. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 13:21:21 GMT
If that yanks don’t want it, it aint happening. Which they probably don’t. I think that the U.S. (mostly) wants Ukraine to come out on top, they just don’t want to keep paying for it. Hard decisions to make. I personally don’t mind some of my taxes going to it but I can’t vote here (yet). |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 11, 2023 14:10:04 GMT
If that yanks don’t want it, it aint happening. Which they probably don’t. I think that the U.S. (mostly) wants Ukraine to come out on top, they just don’t want to keep paying for it. Hard decisions to make. I personally don’t mind some of my taxes going to it but I can’t vote here (yet). It's funny that MAGA are all about pouring hundreds of billions into the military until a small fraction of it is used to defend a democracy against a dictatorship. And it'll also be far cheaper to have Ukraine win now rather than tell Russia, China etc that the US lied about their security assurances to Ukraine and will let them conquer whatever they want, so go ahead and launch more wars. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 11, 2023 14:12:36 GMT
The peace talks idea now is ludicrous.
Republicans want to cut off funding to Ukraine not because they want more peace. You'd have to brain daged to follow the details and believe that argument. They want to stop Ukraine from destroying the Russian army and having democracy beat autocracy.
This is like if Chamberlain could have defeated the Nazis for zero British deaths but he decided he wanted Hitler to have a win.
The russian ambassador to the UK has made it clear they've encouraged Putin. The non negotiable aims are that Ukraine fully surrender the 5 regions Russia claims. Plus disbands their military and lets Russia choose the government in Kyiv.
With Trump now massive favourite for 2024, it looks like the US will fall to Putin-sttle dictatorship. Europe will be alone and dealing with pro-Russians in their midst when Putin invades the next country.
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Post by wannabee on Dec 11, 2023 14:26:23 GMT
Why on earth would Russia be interested its just posturing and hot air, just like the 2 previous meetings on the same topic in Malta and Jeddah The talks are based on Zelensky's 10 point plan which calls for a complete withdrawal of Russian Troops from all Ukrainian Territory including Crimea Much as many would like to see that happen its unrealistic in the current stalemate Unless there is a decisive alteration in the stalemate, Ukraine's ability to prosecute the War is the most likely, as Russia's Public Opinion is unlikely to be allowed to change |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 11, 2023 14:35:22 GMT
Why on earth would Russia be interested its just posturing and hot air, just like the 2 previous meetings on the same topic in Malta and Jeddah The talks are based on Zelensky's 10 point plan which calls for a complete withdrawal of Russian Troops from all Ukrainian Territory including Crimea Much as many would like to see that happen its unrealistic in the current stalemate Unless there is a decisive alteration in the stalemate, Ukraine's ability to prosecute the War is the most likely, as Russia's Public Opinion is unlikely to be allowed to change Yeah, 5-10% of the US defence budget plus Europe = Ukrainian victory. Gotta break the russian army to end the stalemate. Russia knows they have to get the aid cut off asap because they're running out of usable weapons in storage. If aid keeps coming then it'll eventually be obvious Russia was putting on a strong front and is actually crumbling. That's why MAGA stabbing democracy in the back *right now* is such a big deal. |
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Post by wannabee on Dec 11, 2023 14:37:03 GMT
I think that the U.S. (mostly) wants Ukraine to come out on top, they just don’t want to keep paying for it. Hard decisions to make. I personally don’t mind some of my taxes going to it but I can’t vote here (yet). It's funny that MAGA are all about pouring hundreds of billions into the military until a small fraction of it is used to defend a democracy against a dictatorship. And it'll also be far cheaper to have Ukraine win now rather than tell Russia, China etc that the US lied about their security assurances to Ukraine and will let them conquer whatever they want, so go ahead and launch more wars. I assume you're referring to the Budapest Memorandum which UK co-signed It didn't seem to bother US (Obama) or UK (Cameron) when Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 11, 2023 15:24:40 GMT
It's funny that MAGA are all about pouring hundreds of billions into the military until a small fraction of it is used to defend a democracy against a dictatorship. And it'll also be far cheaper to have Ukraine win now rather than tell Russia, China etc that the US lied about their security assurances to Ukraine and will let them conquer whatever they want, so go ahead and launch more wars. I assume you're referring to the Budapest Memorandum which UK co-signed It didn't seem to bother US (Obama) or UK (Cameron) when Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 I take the point but they got it to a stalemate and sent aid to Kyiv then built up Ukraine's armed forces to the point they defeated the Russian professional army in 2022. We're at a stage now to finish the job. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 11, 2023 15:41:09 GMT
The official russian economic numbers say that living standards are falling and industry is hitting limits, but military production is up over 100%.
That's just nowhere enough for them if western aid continues.
E.g. before the war their biggest contracted delivery for BMP-3 vehicles was about 168 in a year. They've been losing about 1,200 per year, so even 100% more isn't anywhere near enough.
Similar for tanks, artillery, shells, missiles etc.
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Post by wannabee on Dec 11, 2023 15:56:30 GMT
I assume you're referring to the Budapest Memorandum which UK co-signed It didn't seem to bother US (Obama) or UK (Cameron) when Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 I take the point but they got it to a stalemate and sent aid to Kyiv then built up Ukraine's armed forces to the point they defeated the Russian professional army in 2022. We're at a stage now to finish the job. It could be easily argued that Obama's, Cameron's and EUs tepid and ineffective Stage 2 Sanctions emboldened Putin to invade Eastern Ukraine. As well of course as completely underestimating Russia's Military Capability and resistance encountered Of course at the time the London Laundromat was in full swing and replenishing the coffers of the Conservative Party and Individuals On the Russian side the only thing that will alter public opinion is to substantially weaken its Economy by having to pour more and more of its Budget into Armaments Not to do so would be ludicrous as the money expended so far would have been poured down a hole and allow Putin to consolidate, regroup and plan his next adventure The Ukrainian people are paying with their blood, the least The West can do is finance it for its own future stability |
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 11, 2023 16:13:42 GMT
Why on earth would Russia be interested its just posturing and hot air, just like the 2 previous meetings on the same topic in Malta and Jeddah The talks are based on Zelensky's 10 point plan which calls for a complete withdrawal of Russian Troops from all Ukrainian Territory including Crimea Much as many would like to see that happen its unrealistic in the current stalemate Unless there is a decisive alteration in the stalemate, Ukraine's ability to prosecute the War is the most likely, as Russia's Public Opinion is unlikely to be allowed to change Yeah, 5-10% of the US defence budget plus Europe = Ukrainian victory. Gotta break the russian army to end the stalemate. Russia knows they have to get the aid cut off asap because they're running out of usable weapons in storage. If aid keeps coming then it'll eventually be obvious Russia was putting on a strong front and is actually crumbling. That's why MAGA stabbing democracy in the back *right now* is such a big deal. To be totally honest I don’t think it’s the MAGA that is totally to blame for the taps being currently closed on aid for Ukraine Republicans have linked the current aid package to building the wall Biden wants nothing to do with increasing security on the Mexican border So it could be argued Biden and his fellow democrats are equally to blame for there stance on the Mexican border |
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Post by LDE76 on Dec 11, 2023 21:16:26 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 12, 2023 21:28:05 GMT
So it could be argued Biden and his fellow democrats are equally to blame for there stance on the Mexican border It could be but I don't buy it. The only reason aid is being blocked is because of republicans. If it wasn't for them, Ukraine would be ok. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2023 21:45:22 GMT
So it could be argued Biden and his fellow democrats are equally to blame for there stance on the Mexican border It could be but I don't buy it. The only reason aid is being blocked is because of republicans. If it wasn't for them, Ukraine would be ok. Agreed. Republicans are a very effective party in opposition. They play crappy games because they’d rather hurt their own country than see Democrats be effective. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 13, 2023 2:32:56 GMT
It could be but I don't buy it. The only reason aid is being blocked is because of republicans. If it wasn't for them, Ukraine would be ok. Agreed. Republicans are a very effective party in opposition. They play crappy games because they’d rather hurt their own country than see Democrats be effective. Yeah if the Democrats wanted Putin to win and the Republicans supported democracy, then the democrats would be saying something like "pass free healthcare with Ukraine aid or we'll block it". It's just an excuse. MAGA loves dictators and they're fine with the mass death of innocents. They would have left us to starve against the Nazis. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 13, 2023 2:52:43 GMT
Russian Urals oil price has dropped a lot. From $80 to $58/barrel. Euro gas prices have also dropped from 50 euros before winter to 35 now. Despite a cold snap it's been mild overall. This is fantastic news!
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 13, 2023 19:41:30 GMT
Russia launched ballistic missiles at Kyiv for two nights in a row.
Ballistics give only a couple of minutes warning so the explosions often happen before the sirens sound. Terrifying.
It seems Ukraine shot them all down but they still crash onto something, even if it's not the real target. Lots of people hurt still 😢
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 13, 2023 21:24:55 GMT
Russian attack supposedly stopped by a Bradley which is somewhere offscreen.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 14, 2023 7:27:31 GMT
Fair play mr student for keeping this thread alive but it's almost like this war is no longer happening. Absolutely zero interest in the media and is back to the type of non existent coverage we saw from the years 2014-2022 following the initial invasion of the donbass.
Insane figures coming out around death toll. Over 300,000 Russians dead. Most of them between the ages 16-22. Putin is a monster.
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Post by Northy on Dec 14, 2023 7:51:30 GMT
I see Putin is holding a full press conference today, I wonder what lies and bullshit he will spout out
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Post by questionable on Dec 14, 2023 8:15:17 GMT
Fair play mr student for keeping this thread alive but it's almost like this war is no longer happening. Absolutely zero interest in the media and is back to the type of non existent coverage we saw from the years 2014-2022 following the initial invasion of the donbass. Insane figures coming out around death toll. Over 300,000 Russians dead. Most of them between the ages 16-22. Putin is a monster. The USA are suggesting 314,000 whilst Ukrainian estimates are now at 343,000, imo the more merrier. If he’s not stopped Putin will no doubt invade smaller countries |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2023 8:52:30 GMT
Fair play mr student for keeping this thread alive but it's almost like this war is no longer happening. Absolutely zero interest in the media and is back to the type of non existent coverage we saw from the years 2014-2022 following the initial invasion of the donbass. Insane figures coming out around death toll. Over 300,000 Russians dead. Most of them between the ages 16-22. Putin is a monster. The USA are suggesting 314,000 whilst Ukrainian estimates are now at 343,000, imo the more merrier. If he’s not stopped Putin will no doubt invade smaller countries I’m not sure I agree with the more the merrier statement. These are young men who’ve been lied to by their govt their entire lives. |
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Post by questionable on Dec 14, 2023 9:03:14 GMT
The USA are suggesting 314,000 whilst Ukrainian estimates are now at 343,000, imo the more merrier. If he’s not stopped Putin will no doubt invade smaller countries I’m not sure I agree with the more the merrier statement. These are young men who’ve been lied to by their govt their entire lives. So have we but they’re not stupid and tens of thousands headed for foreign countries to avoid being called up. There’s a video on Twitter now showing Russian soldiers advancing forcing captured Ukrainian soldiers to stand in front of them in an attempt to not get shot…, Russian soldiers know exactly what they’re signing up for, it’s not as if the tv is the only news source now, literally everyone has access to a mobile phone. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2023 9:10:04 GMT
I’m not sure I agree with the more the merrier statement. These are young men who’ve been lied to by their govt their entire lives. So have we but they’re not stupid and tens of thousands headed for foreign countries to avoid being called up. There’s a video on Twitter now showing Russian soldiers advancing forcing captured Ukrainian soldiers to stand in front of them in an attempt to not get shot…, Russian soldiers know exactly what they’re signing up for, it’s not as if the tv is the only news source now, literally everyone has access to a mobile phone. You cannot equate life in the UK to the control of the Russian State. It’s laughable to think they are in any way similar. When sites are blocked and dissent is punished with prison time, what do you expect people to do? Regular infantry are hardly comprised of the children of wealthy parents (who flee the country in their thousands, as you’ve pointed out), they are often filled with people from poorer backgrounds with limited choices and worse education. www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/10/06/poorer-russian-regions-conscripting-more-soldiers-investigation-says-a79002 |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 14, 2023 12:26:14 GMT
I’m not sure I agree with the more the merrier statement. These are young men who’ve been lied to by their govt their entire lives. So have we but they’re not stupid and tens of thousands headed for foreign countries to avoid being called up. There’s a video on Twitter now showing Russian soldiers advancing forcing captured Ukrainian soldiers to stand in front of them in an attempt to not get shot…, Russian soldiers know exactly what they’re signing up for, it’s not as if the tv is the only news source now, literally everyone has access to a mobile phone. Completely disagree. These are young men who have no choice. How can you possibly say they have a choice and deserve to die. Some of them have been taken from orphanages, out of school, out of college, from their parents etc. The problem with war is we get so indoctrinated by "our side". It's a human tribal instinct that will always exist unfortunately. It's the same with politics. There will absolutely be wrong doing on both sides as per just about any war that's ever happened. Putin is the problem, not Russian soldiers who are under orders. |
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Post by wannabee on Dec 14, 2023 13:49:39 GMT
Fair play mr student for keeping this thread alive but it's almost like this war is no longer happening. Absolutely zero interest in the media and is back to the type of non existent coverage we saw from the years 2014-2022 following the initial invasion of the donbass. Insane figures coming out around death toll. Over 300,000 Russians dead. Most of them between the ages 16-22. Putin is a monster. Although the figures are horrific you have grossly overstated them It is estimated Russia has suffered about 300,000 CASUALTIES of which about 120,000 are deaths It is estimated Ukraine has suffered about 200,000 Casualties of which about 70,000 are deaths By way of comparison it is estimated there have been about 10,000 Ukrainian Civilian Deaths while in Gaza there are almost double that number |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 14, 2023 14:19:59 GMT
Fair play mr student for keeping this thread alive but it's almost like this war is no longer happening. Absolutely zero interest in the media and is back to the type of non existent coverage we saw from the years 2014-2022 following the initial invasion of the donbass. Insane figures coming out around death toll. Over 300,000 Russians dead. Most of them between the ages 16-22. Putin is a monster. Although the figures are horrific you have grossly overstated them It is estimated Russia has suffered about 300,000 CASUALTIES of which about 120,000 are deaths It is estimated Ukraine has suffered about 200,000 Casualties of which about 70,000 are deaths By way of comparison it is estimated there have been about 10,000 Ukrainian Civilian Deaths while in Gaza there are almost double that number You're right it does say casualties but still a horrific death toll. The point remains the same and I'm not sure what Gaza has to do with this? |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 14, 2023 17:03:23 GMT
This is the Ukrainian beachhead over the river.
Every dot is a Russian vehicle that was hit on film. Look like about a hundred and the beachhead is expanding if anything.
Still nfi what the plan is.
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 14, 2023 17:11:08 GMT
By way of comparison it is estimated there have been about 10,000 Ukrainian Civilian Deaths while in Gaza there are almost double that number What's happening to Gazans is horrific but the numbers shouldn't be compared IMO. For one thing, Russia doesn't allow any human rights orgs to report on civilian deaths in areas it controls. The mass graves outside Mariupol alone are for way over 10k people, but the UN "official" numbers include zero of them. A haunting walk through new grave fields. |
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Post by Northy on Dec 14, 2023 17:12:59 GMT
This is the Ukrainian beachhead over the river. Every dot is a Russian vehicle that was hit on film. Look like about a hundred and the beachhead is expanding if anything. Still nfi what the plan is. Make a cut across the south to cut off Crimea from the supply lines? |
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