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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 17, 2022 12:57:08 GMT
It's definitely not wrong to be more concerned about all those genuinely affecting things I listed, than something that will have zero impact on your life. Get over it. Stop being played. You're being taken for a fool because the right knows how easy it is to get people like you to hate some section of society, that's why they do it. Over and over, just different targets. In five years, you won't be going on about "wokery", you'll be stressed about something else they want you to focus on, probably NetZero would be my guess. Think about why "wokery" will no longer be the thing that mattered above everything else to you! I bet seven years ago it was all about immigration for you. Immigration has never been an issue for me mate to be honest, not legal Immigration anyway . I get your points though and you raise some interesting facts and I can see why you think the way you think, although I don't hate anyone, not even the wokeys, I just feel sorry for the kids more than anything. Fair enough. If you can see through it for what it is then that's a good start. It's all diversionary bollocks to stop people thinking about the real issues, that do actually affect people much much more than any of the woke bollocks will ever do. By comparison, it's not worth getting anywhere near as concerned by. |
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jnb14
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Posts: 271
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Post by jnb14 on Aug 17, 2022 13:23:39 GMT
Nobody is forcing it down your throat. Avoid social media and you will barely hear about it. The only kids involved are those who don’t feel right with their gender and then it is an issue for them and their family and they should take advice. Nobody is forcing children to change genders. They are mate , look at some of the homework kids are being sent home with, look at some of the teachers . Teachers are there to teach not to brainwash and spread their propaganda . It's not just gender neither, it's the teaching of kids to hate their own country's history. I agree about social media though, I don't use it apart from LinkedIn, I watch the odd video on YouTube but that's about it . I wouldn't give Facebook twitter or Instagram the time of day . Back when we had 5 channels and before we had 24/7 news coverage we had to wait till the evening or ten o clock news to see what was going on . Now with round the clock coverage they need something to fill the airwaves and that's why all this woke nonsense gets so much attention and as a consequence treacles down into the rest of society. If we didn't watch the news we'd be none the wiser. I've never been out and about in my daily life and ever at any point had anyone speak to me about gender or pronouns or "white privilege" . The media push this narrative to keep us divided. I blame the media for causing the rift and the idiots that get suckered in by it , namely the teachers and other woke institutions. An NHS Trust spent thousands recently on painting some zebra crossings with rainbow stripes , meanwhile they are moaning that they are underfunded. All in the name of wokery I'm a secondary school teacher -where is this propaganda? "An NHS trust painted some zebra crossings with rainbow stripes". Was this on the public highway? Or was it in the grounds of the hospital? If it was on the public highway it was illegal. If it was the hospital grounds, then often, but not always, they are the responsibility of the private company charging you for parking there. |
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Post by Hereward the Wake ᛊᛏᛟᚲᛖ on Aug 17, 2022 13:42:12 GMT
They are mate , look at some of the homework kids are being sent home with, look at some of the teachers . Teachers are there to teach not to brainwash and spread their propaganda . It's not just gender neither, it's the teaching of kids to hate their own country's history. I agree about social media though, I don't use it apart from LinkedIn, I watch the odd video on YouTube but that's about it . I wouldn't give Facebook twitter or Instagram the time of day . Back when we had 5 channels and before we had 24/7 news coverage we had to wait till the evening or ten o clock news to see what was going on . Now with round the clock coverage they need something to fill the airwaves and that's why all this woke nonsense gets so much attention and as a consequence treacles down into the rest of society. If we didn't watch the news we'd be none the wiser. I've never been out and about in my daily life and ever at any point had anyone speak to me about gender or pronouns or "white privilege" . The media push this narrative to keep us divided. I blame the media for causing the rift and the idiots that get suckered in by it , namely the teachers and other woke institutions. An NHS Trust spent thousands recently on painting some zebra crossings with rainbow stripes , meanwhile they are moaning that they are underfunded. All in the name of wokery I'm a secondary school teacher -where is this propaganda? "An NHS trust painted some zebra crossings with rainbow stripes". Was this on the public highway? Or was it in the grounds of the hospital? If it was on the public highway it was illegal. If it was the hospital grounds, then often, but not always, they are the responsibility of the private company charging you for parking there. |
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jnb14
Youth Player
Posts: 271
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Post by jnb14 on Aug 17, 2022 14:15:41 GMT
Thank you for that.
The one for Sherwood Trust is my local one (Mansfield) I don't know what the sea crossing is and it may well be out at Newark. It's daft spending a couple of grand doing this and even if it was done with the best of intentions, it's asking for trouble. 2 grand would pay for 4 MRI scans, not much in the grand scheme of things, but daft.
The one about schools... somewhat more problematic. There are 2500 or so secondary schools. Teaching about white privilege is "rife". That suggests to me that the vast majority of lessons in the vast majority of schools are teaching about white privilege. This is backed up by the article saying "schools around the country".
The first example is the best one to suit the idea that this is widespread. I don't have much problem with the definition of racism it shows. The definition of police, yes problems. The "micro aggressions"... turn it around and would anyone say "would your hair look better if it was curly"? It is a small thing, but as humans we do tend to see differences first. Is it better to say "Who is that lad in the red shirt?" Or "Who is that black lad?"
Overall, no context.
The second example - yes problems. Was that all that was done during the lesson? Again no context.
The third example - Trump compared to Hitler during a history lesson. So what's the context? This wasn't a leaflet like the first two. I'm a history teacher, I might use Trump (someone the students are very familiar with) as a comparison to help the students to better understand a time their grandparents don't remember, especially if a student brings it up themselves. This example is really very thin.
Three examples from over 2000 schools that prove it is "rife" and "around the country".
This is from the Free Speech Union, published in the Daily Express. I totally agree that students should be helped to think for themselves. I'm sure Toby Young agrees and he is happy for other people to think differently to him. From wikipedia:
Young has been at the centre of several controversies. In 2015, he wrote an article in advocacy of genetically engineered intelligence, which he described as "progressive eugenics".[8] In early January 2018, he was briefly a non-executive director on the board of the Office for Students,[9] an appointment from which he resigned within a few days after Twitter posts described as "misogynistic and homophobic" were uncovered.[10] In 2020, press regulator IPSO found Young to have promoted misinformation about the COVID-19 pandemic in a Daily Telegraph column.[11]
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Post by Hereward the Wake ᛊᛏᛟᚲᛖ on Aug 17, 2022 14:37:09 GMT
I suppose its up to the parents to undo the propaganda by teaching their own kids the correct way and warning them about the woke teachers that they might encounter, especially in lessons like history and biology. I do feel that the backlash from parents will mean the only people that will suffer long term are the teachers. For every teacher that compares something negative to Trump there will be a parent that does the same in reverse for someone like Biden so I guess it all equals out in the end.
Just more examples of divide and conquer though I guess
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jnb14
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Posts: 271
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Post by jnb14 on Aug 17, 2022 14:43:17 GMT
I suppose its up to the parents to undo the propaganda by teaching their own kids the correct way and warning them about the woke teachers that they might encounter, especially in lessons like history and biology. I do feel that the backlash from parents will mean the only people that will suffer long term are the teachers. For every teacher that compares something negative to Trump there will be a parent that does the same in reverse for someone like Biden so I guess it all equals out in the end. Just more examples of divide and conquer though I guess True. But the real thing is many (not all) students and their parents don't take a great deal of interest in the wider world. |
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Post by Hereward the Wake ᛊᛏᛟᚲᛖ on Aug 17, 2022 14:44:07 GMT
I suppose its up to the parents to undo the propaganda by teaching their own kids the correct way and warning them about the woke teachers that they might encounter, especially in lessons like history and biology. I do feel that the backlash from parents will mean the only people that will suffer long term are the teachers. For every teacher that compares something negative to Trump there will be a parent that does the same in reverse for someone like Biden so I guess it all equals out in the end. Just more examples of divide and conquer though I guess True. But the real thing is many (not all) students and their parents don't take a great deal of interest in the wider world. Thats something we can agree on , which might not be such a bad thing. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Aug 17, 2022 15:07:46 GMT
Oggy I can't even be bothered to argue the case mate. Just watch it unfold and maybe in 5 or 6 years time I'll drop you a note to ask your thoughts on Starmer. If you really think Starmer is the man then good luck, you'll need it 😊 P.s I don't disagree, this Tory government has been dreadful. But Labour aren't the answer. I'm not sure there is an answer right now 😒 I’m not a big fan of Starmer. But I will not tarnish him or MPs from other parties with what this government has done. You are walking into the trap of assuming that because the current lot are awful, they all are. That’s exactly what the current lot want so then they are then not held to account. I am pointing out to you that there is no rational or reasonable way of knowing Starmer is as bad or worse than the tories because he hasn’t been in power. Opposition leader is a completely different job to PM. But given that the tories are in power and have been for over a decade and most people agree they have been terrible, isn’t it worth trying something different from the status quo of the last decade or so? You never know, it may be a bit better. Well there is because look at his responses to some of the Tory policies. - Covid. Starmer called far harder lockdowns, more lockdowns, more masks, more crippled livelihoods and more destruction to children's education while relentlessly calling for schools to shut. He should have been arrested for his stance during the Covid years. Starmer in fact demanded a further lockdown when "omicron" broke out last winter. That would have been devastating and hindsight now illustrates clearly how badly he got that wrong. - Green agenda. Big supporter of flop 26 which was essentially a bunch of hypocritical, wealthy, political elites from the West being escorted to a site in Glasgow in a mix of private jets and diesel engines to tell the rest of the world why they should be poorer. He's all over the idea of a "green new deal" and has zero interest in addressing the cost of this. - Immigration. What's his solution? - Cost of living crisis. What's his solution? - Inflation. What's his solution? What's his solution to just about anything? He's a completely fraud and is so far away from being the answer to the severe issues facing this nation. |
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 17, 2022 15:29:04 GMT
Overturn an 80 seat majority? He'd be doing well. Once the Tories choose their new leader and the election approaches the right-wing Press will start getting stuck into Starmer. He's sensibly given them very little to get stuck into so far, drinking a bottle of beer aside obviously, and even that led to a dozen Daily Mail front pages! I agree that the Tory Party is out of ideas (and out of touch - when has it not been?) but once the media starts the usual "For all their faults - still the best choice for the country" stuff, enough of the electorate will come round. You have to remember that eight or nine out of ten people haven't any interest or clue about politics. Sunak would probably beat Starmer, in terms of Tory leadership choice outside of the membership he seems more popular with the country overall, including floating voters most importantly, but it looks like the Tory membership are going to make the same mistake they made with Bozo. Elect some idiot who tells them what they want to hear but is basically incompetent. I view Truss as more a Tory mistake similar to Ian Duncan Smith - zero charisma, membership love her but floating voters say 'no thanks'. Obviously she'll be PM though so she'll have the benefit of actually being able to deliver policy pre-election and she also has the advantage of being up against someone (Starmer) who is equally uncharismatic. If a Tony Blair type leader was on the scene, the Tories would be facing annihilation but I suspect a reduced Tory majority or hung parliament is on the cards. And Boris causing chaos from the back benches, she’ll be gone in no time |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 17, 2022 15:34:55 GMT
I view Truss as more a Tory mistake similar to Ian Duncan Smith - zero charisma, membership love her but floating voters say 'no thanks'. Obviously she'll be PM though so she'll have the benefit of actually being able to deliver policy pre-election and she also has the advantage of being up against someone (Starmer) who is equally uncharismatic. If a Tony Blair type leader was on the scene, the Tories would be facing annihilation but I suspect a reduced Tory majority or hung parliament is on the cards. And Boris causing chaos from the back benches, she’ll be gone in no time Nah, she'll still be there at general election time. That's it now. Once the members have chosen, the Party and the Tory Press will make out she's the second coming of Margaret Thatcher and an absolute fucking genius, just watch. Boris on the backbenches? He'll never do that! He and Sunak will be like the invisible men! Assuming Sunak doesn't get offered anything by Truss, which is unlikely. |
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Aug 17, 2022 15:50:59 GMT
And Boris causing chaos from the back benches, she’ll be gone in no time Nah, she'll still be there at general election time. That's it now. Once the members have chosen, the Party and the Tory Press will make out she's the second coming of Margaret Thatcher and an absolute fucking genius, just watch. Boris on the backbenches? He'll never do that! He and Sunak will be like the invisible men! Assuming Sunak doesn't get offered anything by Truss, which is unlikely. Boris is a nasty vindictive bastard can’t see him sitting silently by. She’ll be gone quick |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 17, 2022 15:53:59 GMT
And Boris causing chaos from the back benches, she’ll be gone in no time Nah, she'll still be there at general election time. That's it now. Once the members have chosen, the Party and the Tory Press will make out she's the second coming of Margaret Thatcher and an absolute fucking genius, just watch. Boris on the backbenches? He'll never do that! He and Sunak will be like the invisible men! Assuming Sunak doesn't get offered anything by Truss, which is unlikely. Depends how much he genuinely fancies his chances of a return to #10 and how soon. If he does he'll need to remain as a sitting MP. |
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Post by thewonderstuff on Aug 17, 2022 16:49:26 GMT
Nah, she'll still be there at general election time. That's it now. Once the members have chosen, the Party and the Tory Press will make out she's the second coming of Margaret Thatcher and an absolute fucking genius, just watch. Boris on the backbenches? He'll never do that! He and Sunak will be like the invisible men! Assuming Sunak doesn't get offered anything by Truss, which is unlikely. Depends how much he genuinely fancies his chances of a return to #10 and how soon. If he does he'll need to remain as a sitting MP. He will hopefully be facing a recall petition after the Standards Committee report and that will be the end of the lying free loading bastard. |
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jnb14
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Posts: 271
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Post by jnb14 on Aug 17, 2022 16:59:14 GMT
True. But the real thing is many (not all) students and their parents don't take a great deal of interest in the wider world. Thats something we can agree on , which might not be such a bad thing. “If there is a class war – and there is – it is important that it should be handled with subtlety and skill,” wrote Maurice Cowling, the influential rightwing historian, in the late 1970s. “It is not freedom that Conservatives want; what they want is the sort of freedom that will maintain existing inequalities or restore lost ones.” The nature of Conservatism has altered very little since, but the class on whose behalf the Tory party fights has changed dramatically: where once it was doctors and lawyers, businessmen, “respectable people”, it is now hedge fund managers and property developers, the filthy, the super, the Croesus rich. If you’re less wealthy than Jacob Rees-Mogg, the party has fought a 12-year war against you, and – newsflash – it won. Some statistics need animating, and some animate themselves. We do not need a human-interest case study to understand what a 40-year high of 10.1% inflation feels like. We don’t need a pessimistic temperament to be terrified of what October will look like, when it’s slated to reach 13% and the choice between heating and eating kicks in for so many people. We don’t need an infographic to get to grips with the official figures that show a 4.1% drop in regular pay. But news that the Dogs Trust, for the first time in its history, has a waiting list for taking in people’s pets still takes your breath away. I’m emphatically not saying that dogs are more important than people – I’m merely pointing out that this government has brought us to a point where we can’t afford to feed our best friends. This isn’t a belt-tightening moment; this is a wake-up moment. In fact, the class war wasn’t fought with subtlety and skill, it was fought in a more modern fashion, with misinformation. The argument for austerity was built on complementary, nonsensical narratives: most disabled people were faking it; most people on benefits were too lazy to work; most waste in the benefits system was lost to fraud; a class of the workshy had been created by benefits; the “big society” was good, because it was much nicer to get your neighbour’s help than to have properly funded public services; parents know more about education than local authorities; and so on. Opponents of this Cameron-era inanity dignified it by arguing against these propositions as though he actually meant them. What if libraries were mainly used by middle-class children? What if nurses did have to take a pay cut, or we’d soon become Greece? It was just one diversionary talking point after another, as the first offensive wave proceeded completely without mishap, and the destruction of the social safety net was achieved. With Brexit, at least we were arguing about something real: what happened in relation to Europe mattered, for our prosperity, for our intellectual life, for our rights, for the union, for the climate. But again, we were arguing from a completely false start, as if the two competing sides were legitimately different visions for Britain, one which wanted to take back control, one which didn’t. In fact, the escapade was there to deliver only one outcome: the destruction of regulation by which workers and citizens protect and assert themselves against the interests of capital. It was just the second wave of the war. Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, prime ministerial hopefuls, approach the coming crisis with another patchwork of absolute nonsense. The cost of living crisis is all down to the war in Ukraine. We head into recession because we don’t work hard enough. It’s all the fault of the unions, or the woke, who are coming for our growth and “our women” (respectively). Britain can go from strength to strength if the person in charge is enthusiastic enough (according to Truss). This time it’s different – these lines are so incredibly weak and thin, it’s like reaching the end of the road in a Russian misinformation campaign, where they can no longer afford any tech whizzes and they’re leaving meme creation to bots and Google translate. But it’s different for a more important reason: they’re not trying to divert us from some smart new move – they have no moves. If you look at the level of public debt, the high inflation, the low growth and the tax burden, we’re already in a postwar economy. It was just a different kind of war, a class war masquerading as a kulturkampf, and we lost. Sorry to labour the point, but until we acknowledge the extent of the devastation and its cause we cannot hope to recover our bearings. You cannot rebuild anything on fictional foundations. There is no meaningful way out of this if we pretend it’s all about global headwinds and we’re a nice nation that can pull together. You cannot organise if you don’t know what side you’re on, and so many of the narratives of the past 12 years have been tailored to mask exactly that. Are you a striver or a shirker? A net contributor or a net recipient? A patriot or a migrant? Metropolitan elite or left behind? Latte sipper or bitter drinker? Woke or anti-woke? Leaver or remainer? We’ve been trapped in this endless cycle of meaningless divisions to mask what’s incredibly plain: we’re all on the same side and we’re all under attack. Zoe Williams is a Guardian columnist Just like we're all Stoke fans, I think we are all actually on the same side. |
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Post by Hereward the Wake ᛊᛏᛟᚲᛖ on Aug 17, 2022 17:10:24 GMT
Thats something we can agree on , which might not be such a bad thing. “If there is a class war – and there is – it is important that it should be handled with subtlety and skill,” wrote Maurice Cowling, the influential rightwing historian, in the late 1970s. “It is not freedom that Conservatives want; what they want is the sort of freedom that will maintain existing inequalities or restore lost ones.” The nature of Conservatism has altered very little since, but the class on whose behalf the Tory party fights has changed dramatically: where once it was doctors and lawyers, businessmen, “respectable people”, it is now hedge fund managers and property developers, the filthy, the super, the Croesus rich. If you’re less wealthy than Jacob Rees-Mogg, the party has fought a 12-year war against you, and – newsflash – it won. Some statistics need animating, and some animate themselves. We do not need a human-interest case study to understand what a 40-year high of 10.1% inflation feels like. We don’t need a pessimistic temperament to be terrified of what October will look like, when it’s slated to reach 13% and the choice between heating and eating kicks in for so many people. We don’t need an infographic to get to grips with the official figures that show a 4.1% drop in regular pay. But news that the Dogs Trust, for the first time in its history, has a waiting list for taking in people’s pets still takes your breath away. I’m emphatically not saying that dogs are more important than people – I’m merely pointing out that this government has brought us to a point where we can’t afford to feed our best friends. This isn’t a belt-tightening moment; this is a wake-up moment. In fact, the class war wasn’t fought with subtlety and skill, it was fought in a more modern fashion, with misinformation. The argument for austerity was built on complementary, nonsensical narratives: most disabled people were faking it; most people on benefits were too lazy to work; most waste in the benefits system was lost to fraud; a class of the workshy had been created by benefits; the “big society” was good, because it was much nicer to get your neighbour’s help than to have properly funded public services; parents know more about education than local authorities; and so on. Opponents of this Cameron-era inanity dignified it by arguing against these propositions as though he actually meant them. What if libraries were mainly used by middle-class children? What if nurses did have to take a pay cut, or we’d soon become Greece? It was just one diversionary talking point after another, as the first offensive wave proceeded completely without mishap, and the destruction of the social safety net was achieved. With Brexit, at least we were arguing about something real: what happened in relation to Europe mattered, for our prosperity, for our intellectual life, for our rights, for the union, for the climate. But again, we were arguing from a completely false start, as if the two competing sides were legitimately different visions for Britain, one which wanted to take back control, one which didn’t. In fact, the escapade was there to deliver only one outcome: the destruction of regulation by which workers and citizens protect and assert themselves against the interests of capital. It was just the second wave of the war. Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, prime ministerial hopefuls, approach the coming crisis with another patchwork of absolute nonsense. The cost of living crisis is all down to the war in Ukraine. We head into recession because we don’t work hard enough. It’s all the fault of the unions, or the woke, who are coming for our growth and “our women” (respectively). Britain can go from strength to strength if the person in charge is enthusiastic enough (according to Truss). This time it’s different – these lines are so incredibly weak and thin, it’s like reaching the end of the road in a Russian misinformation campaign, where they can no longer afford any tech whizzes and they’re leaving meme creation to bots and Google translate. But it’s different for a more important reason: they’re not trying to divert us from some smart new move – they have no moves. If you look at the level of public debt, the high inflation, the low growth and the tax burden, we’re already in a postwar economy. It was just a different kind of war, a class war masquerading as a kulturkampf, and we lost. Sorry to labour the point, but until we acknowledge the extent of the devastation and its cause we cannot hope to recover our bearings. You cannot rebuild anything on fictional foundations. There is no meaningful way out of this if we pretend it’s all about global headwinds and we’re a nice nation that can pull together. You cannot organise if you don’t know what side you’re on, and so many of the narratives of the past 12 years have been tailored to mask exactly that. Are you a striver or a shirker? A net contributor or a net recipient? A patriot or a migrant? Metropolitan elite or left behind? Latte sipper or bitter drinker? Woke or anti-woke? Leaver or remainer? We’ve been trapped in this endless cycle of meaningless divisions to mask what’s incredibly plain: we’re all on the same side and we’re all under attack. Zoe Williams is a Guardian columnist Just like we're all Stoke fans, I think we are all actually on the same side. I'd say there is more that actually unites us than divides us but the things that divide us are so big people can't let it drop and don't want to admit they are wrong. Like I said before it becomes about "sides", dems vs Republicans , Labour vs Torys and neither side wants the other side to "one up" them so out of sheer stubborness no one listens and therefore plays right into the hands of those that are trying (and succeeding) to divide us . Until everyone listens to each other and until people stop with insults there will always be division and society suffers as a result thus creating a dog eat dog "fuck everyone else" mentality |
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jnb14
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Post by jnb14 on Aug 17, 2022 17:20:09 GMT
I couldn't agree more.
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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 17, 2022 20:43:55 GMT
I’m not a big fan of Starmer. But I will not tarnish him or MPs from other parties with what this government has done. You are walking into the trap of assuming that because the current lot are awful, they all are. That’s exactly what the current lot want so then they are then not held to account. I am pointing out to you that there is no rational or reasonable way of knowing Starmer is as bad or worse than the tories because he hasn’t been in power. Opposition leader is a completely different job to PM. But given that the tories are in power and have been for over a decade and most people agree they have been terrible, isn’t it worth trying something different from the status quo of the last decade or so? You never know, it may be a bit better. Well there is because look at his responses to some of the Tory policies. - Covid. Starmer called far harder lockdowns, more lockdowns, more masks, more crippled livelihoods and more destruction to children's education while relentlessly calling for schools to shut. He should have been arrested for his stance during the Covid years. Starmer in fact demanded a further lockdown when "omicron" broke out last winter. That would have been devastating and hindsight now illustrates clearly how badly he got that wrong. - Green agenda. Big supporter of flop 26 which was essentially a bunch of hypocritical, wealthy, political elites from the West being escorted to a site in Glasgow in a mix of private jets and diesel engines to tell the rest of the world why they should be poorer. He's all over the idea of a "green new deal" and has zero interest in addressing the cost of this. - Immigration. What's his solution? - Cost of living crisis. What's his solution? - Inflation. What's his solution? What's his solution to just about anything? He's a completely fraud and is so far away from being the answer to the severe issues facing this nation. Starmer was absolutely right several times about lockdowns. Had we locked down earlier when Starmer called it, the impact would have been less and far fewer deaths, less long covid, shorter nhs waiting list etc. You are a covid denier though so will never be convinced. You also don’t care about the environment. So obviously you disagree with any green policies. Starmer absolutely should not reveal his manifesto now. The good bits will be stolen. Whereas the tories are in power and have no solution to immigration issues, no solution to the cost of living crisis and no solution to the inflation issue. At least Starmer has announced an energy policy that will help with inflation. Unlike the tories. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Aug 17, 2022 21:06:25 GMT
Well there is because look at his responses to some of the Tory policies. - Covid. Starmer called far harder lockdowns, more lockdowns, more masks, more crippled livelihoods and more destruction to children's education while relentlessly calling for schools to shut. He should have been arrested for his stance during the Covid years. Starmer in fact demanded a further lockdown when "omicron" broke out last winter. That would have been devastating and hindsight now illustrates clearly how badly he got that wrong. - Green agenda. Big supporter of flop 26 which was essentially a bunch of hypocritical, wealthy, political elites from the West being escorted to a site in Glasgow in a mix of private jets and diesel engines to tell the rest of the world why they should be poorer. He's all over the idea of a "green new deal" and has zero interest in addressing the cost of this. - Immigration. What's his solution? - Cost of living crisis. What's his solution? - Inflation. What's his solution? What's his solution to just about anything? He's a completely fraud and is so far away from being the answer to the severe issues facing this nation. Starmer was absolutely right several times about lockdowns. Had we locked down earlier when Starmer called it, the impact would have been less and far fewer deaths, less long covid, shorter nhs waiting list etc. You are a covid denier though so will never be convinced. You also don’t care about the environment. So obviously you disagree with any green policies. Starmer absolutely should not reveal his manifesto now. The good bits will be stolen. Whereas the tories are in power and have no solution to immigration issues, no solution to the cost of living crisis and no solution to the inflation issue. At least Starmer has announced an energy policy that will help with inflation. Unlike the tories. Can’t be arsed to read all that but Starmer supported every lockdown. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 17, 2022 22:04:19 GMT
Thats something we can agree on , which might not be such a bad thing. “If there is a class war – and there is – it is important that it should be handled with subtlety and skill,” wrote Maurice Cowling, the influential rightwing historian, in the late 1970s. “It is not freedom that Conservatives want; what they want is the sort of freedom that will maintain existing inequalities or restore lost ones.” The nature of Conservatism has altered very little since, but the class on whose behalf the Tory party fights has changed dramatically: where once it was doctors and lawyers, businessmen, “respectable people”, it is now hedge fund managers and property developers, the filthy, the super, the Croesus rich. If you’re less wealthy than Jacob Rees-Mogg, the party has fought a 12-year war against you, and – newsflash – it won.
Some statistics need animating, and some animate themselves. We do not need a human-interest case study to understand what a 40-year high of 10.1% inflation feels like. We don’t need a pessimistic temperament to be terrified of what October will look like, when it’s slated to reach 13% and the choice between heating and eating kicks in for so many people. We don’t need an infographic to get to grips with the official figures that show a 4.1% drop in regular pay. But news that the Dogs Trust, for the first time in its history, has a waiting list for taking in people’s pets still takes your breath away. I’m emphatically not saying that dogs are more important than people – I’m merely pointing out that this government has brought us to a point where we can’t afford to feed our best friends. This isn’t a belt-tightening moment; this is a wake-up moment. In fact, the class war wasn’t fought with subtlety and skill, it was fought in a more modern fashion, with misinformation. The argument for austerity was built on complementary, nonsensical narratives: most disabled people were faking it; most people on benefits were too lazy to work; most waste in the benefits system was lost to fraud; a class of the workshy had been created by benefits; the “big society” was good, because it was much nicer to get your neighbour’s help than to have properly funded public services; parents know more about education than local authorities; and so on. Opponents of this Cameron-era inanity dignified it by arguing against these propositions as though he actually meant them. What if libraries were mainly used by middle-class children? What if nurses did have to take a pay cut, or we’d soon become Greece? It was just one diversionary talking point after another, as the first offensive wave proceeded completely without mishap, and the destruction of the social safety net was achieved. With Brexit, at least we were arguing about something real: what happened in relation to Europe mattered, for our prosperity, for our intellectual life, for our rights, for the union, for the climate. But again, we were arguing from a completely false start, as if the two competing sides were legitimately different visions for Britain, one which wanted to take back control, one which didn’t. In fact, the escapade was there to deliver only one outcome: the destruction of regulation by which workers and citizens protect and assert themselves against the interests of capital. It was just the second wave of the war. Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, prime ministerial hopefuls, approach the coming crisis with another patchwork of absolute nonsense. The cost of living crisis is all down to the war in Ukraine. We head into recession because we don’t work hard enough. It’s all the fault of the unions, or the woke, who are coming for our growth and “our women” (respectively). Britain can go from strength to strength if the person in charge is enthusiastic enough (according to Truss). This time it’s different – these lines are so incredibly weak and thin, it’s like reaching the end of the road in a Russian misinformation campaign, where they can no longer afford any tech whizzes and they’re leaving meme creation to bots and Google translate. But it’s different for a more important reason: they’re not trying to divert us from some smart new move – they have no moves. If you look at the level of public debt, the high inflation, the low growth and the tax burden, we’re already in a postwar economy. It was just a different kind of war, a class war masquerading as a kulturkampf, and we lost. Sorry to labour the point, but until we acknowledge the extent of the devastation and its cause we cannot hope to recover our bearings. You cannot rebuild anything on fictional foundations. There is no meaningful way out of this if we pretend it’s all about global headwinds and we’re a nice nation that can pull together. You cannot organise if you don’t know what side you’re on, and so many of the narratives of the past 12 years have been tailored to mask exactly that. Are you a striver or a shirker? A net contributor or a net recipient? A patriot or a migrant? Metropolitan elite or left behind? Latte sipper or bitter drinker? Woke or anti-woke? Leaver or remainer? We’ve been trapped in this endless cycle of meaningless divisions to mask what’s incredibly plain: we’re all on the same side and we’re all under attack. Zoe Williams is a Guardian columnist Just like we're all Stoke fans, I think we are all actually on the same side.
It's an excellent piece.
And the most galling thing about it all, is that they (the Tories) actually got the very people who would suffer the most, to vote for it and thus, ultimately make it a reality.
They were (and still are) absolutely laughing into their double whisky's at how they achieved it.
It's one of the biggest (and most shameful) political swindels, in British history.
It should never be forgotten.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 18, 2022 1:04:38 GMT
“If there is a class war – and there is – it is important that it should be handled with subtlety and skill,” wrote Maurice Cowling, the influential rightwing historian, in the late 1970s. “It is not freedom that Conservatives want; what they want is the sort of freedom that will maintain existing inequalities or restore lost ones.” The nature of Conservatism has altered very little since, but the class on whose behalf the Tory party fights has changed dramatically: where once it was doctors and lawyers, businessmen, “respectable people”, it is now hedge fund managers and property developers, the filthy, the super, the Croesus rich. If you’re less wealthy than Jacob Rees-Mogg, the party has fought a 12-year war against you, and – newsflash – it won.
Some statistics need animating, and some animate themselves. We do not need a human-interest case study to understand what a 40-year high of 10.1% inflation feels like. We don’t need a pessimistic temperament to be terrified of what October will look like, when it’s slated to reach 13% and the choice between heating and eating kicks in for so many people. We don’t need an infographic to get to grips with the official figures that show a 4.1% drop in regular pay. But news that the Dogs Trust, for the first time in its history, has a waiting list for taking in people’s pets still takes your breath away. I’m emphatically not saying that dogs are more important than people – I’m merely pointing out that this government has brought us to a point where we can’t afford to feed our best friends. This isn’t a belt-tightening moment; this is a wake-up moment. In fact, the class war wasn’t fought with subtlety and skill, it was fought in a more modern fashion, with misinformation. The argument for austerity was built on complementary, nonsensical narratives: most disabled people were faking it; most people on benefits were too lazy to work; most waste in the benefits system was lost to fraud; a class of the workshy had been created by benefits; the “big society” was good, because it was much nicer to get your neighbour’s help than to have properly funded public services; parents know more about education than local authorities; and so on. Opponents of this Cameron-era inanity dignified it by arguing against these propositions as though he actually meant them. What if libraries were mainly used by middle-class children? What if nurses did have to take a pay cut, or we’d soon become Greece? It was just one diversionary talking point after another, as the first offensive wave proceeded completely without mishap, and the destruction of the social safety net was achieved. With Brexit, at least we were arguing about something real: what happened in relation to Europe mattered, for our prosperity, for our intellectual life, for our rights, for the union, for the climate. But again, we were arguing from a completely false start, as if the two competing sides were legitimately different visions for Britain, one which wanted to take back control, one which didn’t. In fact, the escapade was there to deliver only one outcome: the destruction of regulation by which workers and citizens protect and assert themselves against the interests of capital. It was just the second wave of the war. Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, prime ministerial hopefuls, approach the coming crisis with another patchwork of absolute nonsense. The cost of living crisis is all down to the war in Ukraine. We head into recession because we don’t work hard enough. It’s all the fault of the unions, or the woke, who are coming for our growth and “our women” (respectively). Britain can go from strength to strength if the person in charge is enthusiastic enough (according to Truss). This time it’s different – these lines are so incredibly weak and thin, it’s like reaching the end of the road in a Russian misinformation campaign, where they can no longer afford any tech whizzes and they’re leaving meme creation to bots and Google translate. But it’s different for a more important reason: they’re not trying to divert us from some smart new move – they have no moves. If you look at the level of public debt, the high inflation, the low growth and the tax burden, we’re already in a postwar economy. It was just a different kind of war, a class war masquerading as a kulturkampf, and we lost. Sorry to labour the point, but until we acknowledge the extent of the devastation and its cause we cannot hope to recover our bearings. You cannot rebuild anything on fictional foundations. There is no meaningful way out of this if we pretend it’s all about global headwinds and we’re a nice nation that can pull together. You cannot organise if you don’t know what side you’re on, and so many of the narratives of the past 12 years have been tailored to mask exactly that. Are you a striver or a shirker? A net contributor or a net recipient? A patriot or a migrant? Metropolitan elite or left behind? Latte sipper or bitter drinker? Woke or anti-woke? Leaver or remainer? We’ve been trapped in this endless cycle of meaningless divisions to mask what’s incredibly plain: we’re all on the same side and we’re all under attack. Zoe Williams is a Guardian columnist Just like we're all Stoke fans, I think we are all actually on the same side. It's an excellent piece. And the most galling thing about it all, is that they (the Tories) actually got the very people who would suffer the most, to vote for it and thus, ultimately make it a reality.
They were (and still are) absolutely laughing into their double whisky's at how they achieved it. It's one of the biggest (and most shameful) political swindels, in British history. It should never be forgotten.
It's working class people attacking other working class people while the ruling class smirk rub their hands and quaff champagne. Divide and rule. The reason life is shit isn't an economic system designed to suppress aspiration. Nor is it a bunch of billionaires who choose not to pay tax to contribute to the society they live in. It's because there's Polish bloke who lives down the road who's got a nicer car. Not to mention the woman on disability benefits who had a big screen TV delivered last week. She told her neighbour it was a gift from her son but what if she's lying? |
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 18, 2022 6:43:13 GMT
“If there is a class war – and there is – it is important that it should be handled with subtlety and skill,” wrote Maurice Cowling, the influential rightwing historian, in the late 1970s. “It is not freedom that Conservatives want; what they want is the sort of freedom that will maintain existing inequalities or restore lost ones.” The nature of Conservatism has altered very little since, but the class on whose behalf the Tory party fights has changed dramatically: where once it was doctors and lawyers, businessmen, “respectable people”, it is now hedge fund managers and property developers, the filthy, the super, the Croesus rich. If you’re less wealthy than Jacob Rees-Mogg, the party has fought a 12-year war against you, and – newsflash – it won.
Some statistics need animating, and some animate themselves. We do not need a human-interest case study to understand what a 40-year high of 10.1% inflation feels like. We don’t need a pessimistic temperament to be terrified of what October will look like, when it’s slated to reach 13% and the choice between heating and eating kicks in for so many people. We don’t need an infographic to get to grips with the official figures that show a 4.1% drop in regular pay. But news that the Dogs Trust, for the first time in its history, has a waiting list for taking in people’s pets still takes your breath away. I’m emphatically not saying that dogs are more important than people – I’m merely pointing out that this government has brought us to a point where we can’t afford to feed our best friends. This isn’t a belt-tightening moment; this is a wake-up moment. In fact, the class war wasn’t fought with subtlety and skill, it was fought in a more modern fashion, with misinformation. The argument for austerity was built on complementary, nonsensical narratives: most disabled people were faking it; most people on benefits were too lazy to work; most waste in the benefits system was lost to fraud; a class of the workshy had been created by benefits; the “big society” was good, because it was much nicer to get your neighbour’s help than to have properly funded public services; parents know more about education than local authorities; and so on. Opponents of this Cameron-era inanity dignified it by arguing against these propositions as though he actually meant them. What if libraries were mainly used by middle-class children? What if nurses did have to take a pay cut, or we’d soon become Greece? It was just one diversionary talking point after another, as the first offensive wave proceeded completely without mishap, and the destruction of the social safety net was achieved. With Brexit, at least we were arguing about something real: what happened in relation to Europe mattered, for our prosperity, for our intellectual life, for our rights, for the union, for the climate. But again, we were arguing from a completely false start, as if the two competing sides were legitimately different visions for Britain, one which wanted to take back control, one which didn’t. In fact, the escapade was there to deliver only one outcome: the destruction of regulation by which workers and citizens protect and assert themselves against the interests of capital. It was just the second wave of the war. Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, prime ministerial hopefuls, approach the coming crisis with another patchwork of absolute nonsense. The cost of living crisis is all down to the war in Ukraine. We head into recession because we don’t work hard enough. It’s all the fault of the unions, or the woke, who are coming for our growth and “our women” (respectively). Britain can go from strength to strength if the person in charge is enthusiastic enough (according to Truss). This time it’s different – these lines are so incredibly weak and thin, it’s like reaching the end of the road in a Russian misinformation campaign, where they can no longer afford any tech whizzes and they’re leaving meme creation to bots and Google translate. But it’s different for a more important reason: they’re not trying to divert us from some smart new move – they have no moves. If you look at the level of public debt, the high inflation, the low growth and the tax burden, we’re already in a postwar economy. It was just a different kind of war, a class war masquerading as a kulturkampf, and we lost. Sorry to labour the point, but until we acknowledge the extent of the devastation and its cause we cannot hope to recover our bearings. You cannot rebuild anything on fictional foundations. There is no meaningful way out of this if we pretend it’s all about global headwinds and we’re a nice nation that can pull together. You cannot organise if you don’t know what side you’re on, and so many of the narratives of the past 12 years have been tailored to mask exactly that. Are you a striver or a shirker? A net contributor or a net recipient? A patriot or a migrant? Metropolitan elite or left behind? Latte sipper or bitter drinker? Woke or anti-woke? Leaver or remainer? We’ve been trapped in this endless cycle of meaningless divisions to mask what’s incredibly plain: we’re all on the same side and we’re all under attack. Zoe Williams is a Guardian columnist Just like we're all Stoke fans, I think we are all actually on the same side. It's an excellent piece. And the most galling thing about it all, is that they (the Tories) actually got the very people who would suffer the most, to vote for it and thus, ultimately make it a reality.
They were (and still are) absolutely laughing into their double whisky's at how they achieved it. It's one of the biggest (and most shameful) political swindels, in British history. It should never be forgotten.
A load of bleeding heart whining pish is what that is. It’s like a game of limp liberal bingo. Buzz words galore. Tripe and trite sentiment. Best read listening to Imagine. |
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Post by Hereward the Wake ᛊᛏᛟᚲᛖ on Aug 18, 2022 6:46:38 GMT
It's an excellent piece. And the most galling thing about it all, is that they (the Tories) actually got the very people who would suffer the most, to vote for it and thus, ultimately make it a reality.
They were (and still are) absolutely laughing into their double whisky's at how they achieved it. It's one of the biggest (and most shameful) political swindels, in British history. It should never be forgotten.
A load of bleeding heart whining pish is what that is. It’s like a game of limp liberal bingo. Buzz words galore. Tripe and trite sentiment. Best read listening to Imagine. It's a typical Guardian piece, nonsensical. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 18, 2022 7:11:51 GMT
“If there is a class war – and there is – it is important that it should be handled with subtlety and skill,” wrote Maurice Cowling, the influential rightwing historian, in the late 1970s. “It is not freedom that Conservatives want; what they want is the sort of freedom that will maintain existing inequalities or restore lost ones.” The nature of Conservatism has altered very little since, but the class on whose behalf the Tory party fights has changed dramatically: where once it was doctors and lawyers, businessmen, “respectable people”, it is now hedge fund managers and property developers, the filthy, the super, the Croesus rich. If you’re less wealthy than Jacob Rees-Mogg, the party has fought a 12-year war against you, and – newsflash – it won.
Some statistics need animating, and some animate themselves. We do not need a human-interest case study to understand what a 40-year high of 10.1% inflation feels like. We don’t need a pessimistic temperament to be terrified of what October will look like, when it’s slated to reach 13% and the choice between heating and eating kicks in for so many people. We don’t need an infographic to get to grips with the official figures that show a 4.1% drop in regular pay. But news that the Dogs Trust, for the first time in its history, has a waiting list for taking in people’s pets still takes your breath away. I’m emphatically not saying that dogs are more important than people – I’m merely pointing out that this government has brought us to a point where we can’t afford to feed our best friends. This isn’t a belt-tightening moment; this is a wake-up moment. In fact, the class war wasn’t fought with subtlety and skill, it was fought in a more modern fashion, with misinformation. The argument for austerity was built on complementary, nonsensical narratives: most disabled people were faking it; most people on benefits were too lazy to work; most waste in the benefits system was lost to fraud; a class of the workshy had been created by benefits; the “big society” was good, because it was much nicer to get your neighbour’s help than to have properly funded public services; parents know more about education than local authorities; and so on. Opponents of this Cameron-era inanity dignified it by arguing against these propositions as though he actually meant them. What if libraries were mainly used by middle-class children? What if nurses did have to take a pay cut, or we’d soon become Greece? It was just one diversionary talking point after another, as the first offensive wave proceeded completely without mishap, and the destruction of the social safety net was achieved. With Brexit, at least we were arguing about something real: what happened in relation to Europe mattered, for our prosperity, for our intellectual life, for our rights, for the union, for the climate. But again, we were arguing from a completely false start, as if the two competing sides were legitimately different visions for Britain, one which wanted to take back control, one which didn’t. In fact, the escapade was there to deliver only one outcome: the destruction of regulation by which workers and citizens protect and assert themselves against the interests of capital. It was just the second wave of the war. Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak, prime ministerial hopefuls, approach the coming crisis with another patchwork of absolute nonsense. The cost of living crisis is all down to the war in Ukraine. We head into recession because we don’t work hard enough. It’s all the fault of the unions, or the woke, who are coming for our growth and “our women” (respectively). Britain can go from strength to strength if the person in charge is enthusiastic enough (according to Truss). This time it’s different – these lines are so incredibly weak and thin, it’s like reaching the end of the road in a Russian misinformation campaign, where they can no longer afford any tech whizzes and they’re leaving meme creation to bots and Google translate. But it’s different for a more important reason: they’re not trying to divert us from some smart new move – they have no moves. If you look at the level of public debt, the high inflation, the low growth and the tax burden, we’re already in a postwar economy. It was just a different kind of war, a class war masquerading as a kulturkampf, and we lost. Sorry to labour the point, but until we acknowledge the extent of the devastation and its cause we cannot hope to recover our bearings. You cannot rebuild anything on fictional foundations. There is no meaningful way out of this if we pretend it’s all about global headwinds and we’re a nice nation that can pull together. You cannot organise if you don’t know what side you’re on, and so many of the narratives of the past 12 years have been tailored to mask exactly that. Are you a striver or a shirker? A net contributor or a net recipient? A patriot or a migrant? Metropolitan elite or left behind? Latte sipper or bitter drinker? Woke or anti-woke? Leaver or remainer? We’ve been trapped in this endless cycle of meaningless divisions to mask what’s incredibly plain: we’re all on the same side and we’re all under attack. Zoe Williams is a Guardian columnist Just like we're all Stoke fans, I think we are all actually on the same side. It's an excellent piece. And the most galling thing about it all, is that they (the Tories) actually got the very people who would suffer the most, to vote for it and thus, ultimately make it a reality.
They were (and still are) absolutely laughing into their double whisky's at how they achieved it. It's one of the biggest (and most shameful) political swindels, in British history. It should never be forgotten.
Well maybe if the Labour Party had actually respected and backed the vote of millions of working class traditional labour voters Instead of allowing starmer to undermine the leadership Johnson might never of happened But hey the soy latte avocado eating guardian readers were happy though there screaming like stuck pigs now ( other animals are available if the term pig offends ) |
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 18, 2022 8:01:39 GMT
Can we have her please?
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Post by Hereward the Wake ᛊᛏᛟᚲᛖ on Aug 18, 2022 8:37:09 GMT
Wouldn't mind having a go of that |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 18, 2022 8:49:12 GMT
Vegetarian raised by same sex parents, has left leaning political views and has agreed to some of the most challenging climate targets in the world. What's not to like? |
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Post by Hereward the Wake ᛊᛏᛟᚲᛖ on Aug 18, 2022 8:51:51 GMT
Vegetarian raised by same sex parents, has left leaning political views and has agreed to some of the most challenging climate targets in the world. What's not to like? I'd reject all that , shag her then show her the door 😁 |
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Post by yeswilko on Aug 18, 2022 10:18:58 GMT
Vegetarian raised by same sex parents, has left leaning political views and has agreed to some of the most challenging climate targets in the world. What's not to like? I'd reject all that , shag her then show her the door 😁 Come on pal... we all know the Audlem incel has never touched a tit. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 18, 2022 10:27:59 GMT
Vegetarian raised by same sex parents, has left leaning political views and has agreed to some of the most challenging climate targets in the world. What's not to like? It would largely depend on wether she would object to me eating a bacon sandwich |
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Post by Hereward the Wake ᛊᛏᛟᚲᛖ on Aug 18, 2022 10:46:44 GMT
Vegetarian raised by same sex parents, has left leaning political views and has agreed to some of the most challenging climate targets in the world. What's not to like? It would largely depend on wether she would object to me eating a bacon sandwich I bet she's had a sausage or 2 herself behind closed doors 😁 |
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