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Post by wannabee on Jul 26, 2022 1:55:16 GMT
Not really Fos, Hitler had leadership qualities, but I'm not a fan. Although Hitler was an evil bastard, he was a leader in that he unified people and had conviction in what he believed in. I don't recall him rugby tackling kids, wearing hi viz gear or saying 'hasta la vista schatzi'. He would never have gone in for that shit. And no, I'm not a fan. Yes but Boris has a Conviction too |
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Post by lordb on Jul 26, 2022 6:23:36 GMT
Not really Fos, Hitler had leadership qualities, but I'm not a fan. Although Hitler was an evil bastard, he was a leader in that he unified people and had conviction in what he believed in. I don't recall him rugby tackling kids, wearing hi viz gear or saying 'hasta la vista schatzi'. He would never have gone in for that shit. And no, I'm not a fan. He most definitely didn't unify the German people |
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Post by hotterpotter on Jul 26, 2022 6:56:50 GMT
Says how interesting the debate was when we're debating the definition of the word "leader" 🤣
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Post by redstriper on Jul 26, 2022 7:26:45 GMT
I watched all the debate, no knockout blows, and apparently Sunak is still way behind.
So it appears the tories are going to elect another populist (tax cuts and empty, dangerous, sabre rattling) over a hard working realist who understands the economy and the mess we are in. Entirely predictable as given a choice of two in their last three elections they've picked the wrong person every time.
I fucking despair of people in this country. I really do.
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Post by redstriper on Jul 26, 2022 7:41:34 GMT
Although Hitler was an evil bastard, he was a leader in that he unified people and had conviction in what he believed in. I don't recall him rugby tackling kids, wearing hi viz gear or saying 'hasta la vista schatzi'. He would never have gone in for that shit. And no, I'm not a fan. He most definitely didn't unify the German people Hitler had energy, ideas, conviction and a plan. Unfortunately he was evil. I think a better comparison for Johnson (ignoring the obvious Trump) would be Nero. A lazy narcissist used to a life of privilege who sat on his arse indulging himself whilst the empire crumbled. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2022 7:44:22 GMT
I don't follow you really Foter. Worldwide, I think Hitler was probably more divisive than Johnson. Having said that , it isn't necessarily a bad thing for a leader to be divisive. Another leader, Jesus, was divisive. I don't particularly mind what people post. Likewise Hitler wasn't the leader of the world was he. Like BJ wasn't. So by your own logic it was a shit example. I didn't say Hitler was the leader of the world. I said he was a Leader and was divisive. |
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Post by yeokel on Jul 26, 2022 8:07:53 GMT
Anyway, back on topic……
I thought Sunak’s performance of talking over her at every opportunity, of Mansplaining everything if you like, made him look weak. In a “debate” you have to listen to the other side and then take on what they say.
All he wanted to do was make his well researched points at appropriate times. He might as well have just turned up with a PowerPoint presentation and put up appropriate slides.
He didn’t really dissect her arguments or win anybody over, it seemed to me.
I was surprised how Truss allowed Sunak to talk over her so frequently.
If she can be trampled over that easily in a TV debate with somebody with similar beliefs to her, I suspect that if it comes to negotiating with people who have opposing beliefs and motivations she might well get trampled.
That was a bit of a concern to me.
If she sees herself as Thatcher mk2, I think she’s still got a lot to learn about standing up for herself which is a surprise as her reputation is different to that.
Overall, I think Sunak won the evening because he seemed a little more certain about what he was talking about than she did.
But if those two are the best two candidates that we can put up to be prime minister of the United Kingdom then Woe be us.
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Post by Foster on Jul 26, 2022 8:08:10 GMT
Likewise Hitler wasn't the leader of the world was he. Like BJ wasn't. So by your own logic it was a shit example. I didn't say Hitler was the leader of the world. I said he was a Leader and was divisive. By your reckoning that being popular makes you a leader. Would you agree that I'm the leader of this board?  |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2022 8:12:10 GMT
I didn't say Hitler was the leader of the world. I said he was a Leader and was divisive. By your reckoning that being popular makes you a leader. Would you agree that I'm the leader of this board? I didn't say that being popular made you a leader. Most leaders are "popular" in the eyes of those they lead. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2022 8:17:24 GMT
Anyway, back on topic…… I thought Sunak’s performance of talking over her at every opportunity, of Mansplaining everything if you like, made him look weak. In a “debate” you have to listen to the other side and then take on what they say. All he wanted to do was make his well researched points at appropriate times. He might as well have just turned up with a PowerPoint presentation and put up appropriate slides. He didn’t really dissect her arguments or win anybody over, it seemed to me. I was surprised how Truss allowed Sunak to talk over her so frequently. If she can be trampled over that easily in a TV debate with somebody with similar beliefs to her, I suspect that if it comes to negotiating with people who have opposing beliefs and motivations she might well get trampled. That was a bit of a concern to me. If she sees herself as Thatcher mk2, I think she’s still got a lot to learn about standing up for herself which is a surprise as her reputation is different to that. Overall, I think Sunak won the evening because he seemed a little more certain about what he was talking about than she did. But if those two are the best two candidates that we can put up to be prime minister of the United Kingdom then Woe be us. I agree with most of that Yeokel. I think if/ when Truss becomes PM it could go either way.....she might surprise a lot of people, grow into the job , and come over as strong and decisive. Or she might continue to look vacant and stupid in the limelight on several occasions. Somehow, I think it might be the former, as unacceptable on here and how unlikely that might seem. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 26, 2022 8:23:09 GMT
 Don't have nightmares..... |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 26, 2022 8:23:50 GMT
Anyway, back on topic…… I thought Sunak’s performance of talking over her at every opportunity, of Mansplaining everything if you like, made him look weak. In a “debate” you have to listen to the other side and then take on what they say. All he wanted to do was make his well researched points at appropriate times. He might as well have just turned up with a PowerPoint presentation and put up appropriate slides. He didn’t really dissect her arguments or win anybody over, it seemed to me. I was surprised how Truss allowed Sunak to talk over her so frequently. If she can be trampled over that easily in a TV debate with somebody with similar beliefs to her, I suspect that if it comes to negotiating with people who have opposing beliefs and motivations she might well get trampled. That was a bit of a concern to me. If she sees herself as Thatcher mk2, I think she’s still got a lot to learn about standing up for herself which is a surprise as her reputation is different to that. Overall, I think Sunak won the evening because he seemed a little more certain about what he was talking about than she did. But if those two are the best two candidates that we can put up to be prime minister of the United Kingdom then Woe be us. I agree with most of that Yeokel. I think if/ when Truss becomes PM it could go either way.....she might surprise a lot of people, grow into the job , and come over as strong and decisive. Or she might continue to look vacant and stupid in the limelight on several occasions. Somehow, I think it might be the former, as unacceptable on here and how unlikely that might seem. Sorry John, she really is out of her depth and always will be. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2022 8:34:45 GMT
I agree with most of that Yeokel. I think if/ when Truss becomes PM it could go either way.....she might surprise a lot of people, grow into the job , and come over as strong and decisive. Or she might continue to look vacant and stupid in the limelight on several occasions. Somehow, I think it might be the former, as unacceptable on here and how unlikely that might seem. Sorry John, she really is out of her depth and always will be. Maybe, Paul....I'll just wait to see what happens.....with the Energy crisis, Northern Ireland and Ukraine on her agenda we should know by Christmas. |
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 26, 2022 8:45:59 GMT
The OECD and the International Monetary Fund reckon the UK faces the lethal combination of the slowest growth and highest inflation of any major economy in 2023. Living standards are falling at the fastest rate since the 1950s.
Thank fuck the last leader and his government and the next leader from the very same government got all the big calls right.
Brexit, Covid, the economy. Where would we be without those successes?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 26, 2022 8:57:11 GMT
I think if/ when Truss becomes PM it could go either way.....she might surprise a lot of people, grow into the job , and come over as strong and decisive. Or she might continue to look vacant and stupid in the limelight on several occasions. Somehow, I think it might be the former, as unacceptable on here and how unlikely that might seem.Blimey, that was a quick change of heart ...  Truss as Prime minister inconceivable for me, an embarrassment, a complete gift for the opposition. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2022 9:05:31 GMT
I think if/ when Truss becomes PM it could go either way.....she might surprise a lot of people, grow into the job , and come over as strong and decisive. Or she might continue to look vacant and stupid in the limelight on several occasions. Somehow, I think it might be the former, as unacceptable on here and how unlikely that might seem.Blimey, that was a quick change of heart ... Truss as Prime minister inconceivable for me, an embarrassment, a complete gift for the opposition. I still think it could go that way Paul. That's what I've just said vacant and stupid," But I'm prepared to see how it goes....and yes I will change my mind if necessary, I'd prefer that than just being stuck in the same groove. Obviously some people cannot and will not change because the agenda, as always , is get rid of the Tories. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 26, 2022 9:14:23 GMT
Sorry John, she really is out of her depth and always will be. Maybe, Paul....I'll just wait to see what happens.....with the Energy crisis, Northern Ireland and Ukraine on her agenda we should know by Christmas. I'd suggest we know already mate. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 26, 2022 9:14:35 GMT
Blimey, that was a quick change of heart ... I still think it could go that way Paul. That's what I've just said vacant and stupid," But I'm prepared to see how it goes....and yes I will change my mind if necessary, I'd prefer that than just being stuck in the same groove. Obviously some people cannot and will not change because the agenda, as always , is get rid of the Tories.
For sure.
I was just commenting on how quickly you have gone from claiming that Truss would be "inconceivable" for you and an "embarassment" as a PM, to the possibility that she might actually "surprise a lot of people, grow into the job, and come over as strong and decisive."
Fair play to you though ...
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Post by Foster on Jul 26, 2022 9:19:27 GMT
Blimey, that was a quick change of heart ... I still think it could go that way Paul. That's what I've just said vacant and stupid," But I'm prepared to see how it goes....and yes I will change my mind if necessary, I'd prefer that than just being stuck in the same groove. Obviously some people cannot and will not change because the agenda, as always , is get rid of the Tories. Only because the options are so shit. For me anyway. If Sunak wasn't already tarnished I'd think he's okay. |
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Post by wannabee on Jul 26, 2022 9:35:58 GMT
By your reckoning that being popular makes you a leader. Would you agree that I'm the leader of this board? I didn't say that being popular made you a leader. Most leaders are "popular" in the eyes of those they lead. I think we should look to the Premier League for inspiration where most of the Popular Leaders (Managers) are Foreign e.g. Pep, Clippity, 10 Bob etc Unfortunately Hitler is unavailable but I can think of a few popular characters that might fancy the Gig To be entirely fair we could have a Britain's/PMs Got Talent Live TV Competition with successive rounds of say Dancing, Singing, Novelty Act etc with live voting each week to eliminate the least popular until we have a winner Some of my potential Nominations would be Kim Jong Un (North Korea) Bashir al-Assad (Syria) Paul Kagame (Rwanda) All Kammenei (Iran) Erdoğan (Turkey) I think Putin would be too controversial and would only suppress the ratings I think it would be fun and more inclusive than the Farce that is playing out currently |
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Post by wannabee on Jul 26, 2022 9:45:54 GMT
Blimey, that was a quick change of heart ... I still think it could go that way Paul. That's what I've just said vacant and stupid," But I'm prepared to see how it goes....and yes I will change my mind if necessary, I'd prefer that than just being stuck in the same groove.
Obviously some people cannot and will not change because the agenda, as always , is get rid of the Tories. So you accept it's possible People (Leavers) might change their mind, Buyers Remorse if you will. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2022 10:04:54 GMT
I still think it could go that way Paul. That's what I've just said vacant and stupid," But I'm prepared to see how it goes....and yes I will change my mind if necessary, I'd prefer that than just being stuck in the same groove.
Obviously some people cannot and will not change because the agenda, as always , is get rid of the Tories. So you accept it's possible People (Leavers) might change their mind, Buyers Remorse if you will. It's possible that Leavers haven't changed their minds. The Yougove survey referred to above said that 6% of the Remainers in the sample thought it was a good idea to leave the EU. It's possible that people voted in the 2016 referendum because they didn't want to be in the EU. But we can't assume anything because we think " it must be true , because I think that way". |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2022 10:12:51 GMT
I still think it could go that way Paul. That's what I've just said vacant and stupid," But I'm prepared to see how it goes....and yes I will change my mind if necessary, I'd prefer that than just being stuck in the same groove. Obviously some people cannot and will not change because the agenda, as always , is get rid of the Tories.
For sure.
I was just commenting on how quickly you have gone from claiming that Truss would be "inconceivable" for you and an "embarassment" as a PM, to the possibility that she might actually "surprise a lot of people, grow into the job, and come over as strong and decisive."
Fair play to you though ...
I didn't really know much about Truss before the leadership campaign....my opinion was formed when she looked embarrassingly stupid in that video in which she was smiling and waiting for applause. And when she refers to trade deals that she's arranged , which really seem " not very good " to me. Last night was the first time that I'd actually listened to her, I thought she was " ok"( within the context), she didn't make a complete fool of herself and held her own against Sunak. But, being a pragmatist, it's either her or Sunak, I'll wait and see how she does. Obviously it is going to be very difficult for the next PM ....but, had it been Corbyn or Starmer , I'd at least give them a chance. I honestly think we could have some serious unrest going into the new year, whoever is the leader. |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 26, 2022 10:21:10 GMT
I'm not going to quote your last message bjr as you messed up the quotation functionality. What I will say is that whereas you prefer emotive and divisive figureheads, I prefer composed and more unifying ones. Divisive nationalistic language is a put off for me. It achieves nothing. It achieves quite a lot to be fair though. Just struggling to think of the positives. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 26, 2022 10:27:53 GMT
For sure.
I was just commenting on how quickly you have gone from claiming that Truss would be "inconceivable" for you and an "embarassment" as a PM, to the possibility that she might actually "surprise a lot of people, grow into the job, and come over as strong and decisive."
Fair play to you though ...
I didn't really know much about Truss before the leadership campaign....my opinion was formed when she looked embarrassingly stupid in that video in which she was smiling and waiting for applause. And when she refers to trade deals that she's arranged , which really seem " not very good " to me. Last night was the first time that I'd actually listened to her, I thought she was " ok"( within the context), she didn't make a complete fool of herself and held her own against Sunak. But, being a pragmatist, it's either her or Sunak, I'll wait and see how she does. Obviously it is going to be very difficult for the next PM ....but, had it been Corbyn or Starmer , I'd at least give them a chance. I honestly think we could have some serious unrest going into the new year, whoever is the leader. Yes, unrest could very well be on the way. I genuinely believe that will be much more likely if Sunak loses. Which he will. |
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Post by OldStokie on Jul 26, 2022 10:54:40 GMT
I'm still trying to work out what their polices are. Is Sunak proposing we have another ten years of the failed austerity program to pay back the Covid costs and Truss is saying we need to treat it as a sort of war debt to be paid over the next 50 years? What I do know is that ordinary people cannot cope with another ten years of austerity. Perhaps someone could enlighten me exactly what they're proposing to do. One thing that did piss me off during the debate was why the presenter chose to stray into dress sense rather than get some teeth into what they're going to do with the NHS.
OS.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 26, 2022 10:54:50 GMT
I didn't really know much about Truss before the leadership campaign....my opinion was formed when she looked embarrassingly stupid in that video in which she was smiling and waiting for applause. And when she refers to trade deals that she's arranged , which really seem " not very good " to me. Last night was the first time that I'd actually listened to her, I thought she was " ok"( within the context), she didn't make a complete fool of herself and held her own against Sunak. But, being a pragmatist, it's either her or Sunak, I'll wait and see how she does. Obviously it is going to be very difficult for the next PM ....but, had it been Corbyn or Starmer , I'd at least give them a chance. I honestly think we could have some serious unrest going into the new year, whoever is the leader. Yes, unrest could very well be on the way. I genuinely believe that will be much more likely if Sunak loses. Which he will. Indeed. Sunak at least appears to have an air of pragmatism about him. Truss - to me at least- comes across as an economically illiterate divisive populist who - like her boss - fancies the trappings of office more than the responsibility that comes with it. "Taxes are not the same as interest rates" Thanks Liz - I never knew that. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2022 11:07:13 GMT
Yes, unrest could very well be on the way. I genuinely believe that will be much more likely if Sunak loses. Which he will. Indeed. Sunak at least appears to have an air of pragmatism about him. Truss - to me at least- comes across as an economically illiterate divisive populist who - like her boss - fancies the trappings of office more than the responsibility that comes with it. "Taxes are not the same as interest rates" Thanks Liz - I never knew that. I might be imagining it , but didn't she imply that she'd leave the details ( as long as she is clear on the direction of travel)of the financial strategy to the Chancellor. Not a bad idea really, if we can move away from a presidential Prime Minister, to a " first amongst equals" |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jul 26, 2022 11:19:40 GMT
Indeed. Sunak at least appears to have an air of pragmatism about him. Truss - to me at least- comes across as an economically illiterate divisive populist who - like her boss - fancies the trappings of office more than the responsibility that comes with it. "Taxes are not the same as interest rates" Thanks Liz - I never knew that. I might be imagining it , but didn't she imply that she'd leave the details ( as long as she is clear on the direction of travel)of the financial strategy to the Chancellor. Not a bad idea really, if we can move away from a presidential Prime Minister, to a " first amongst equals" You say that now, but when she gets in and picks Nadine Dorries as chancellor then we’ll have to revisit if it’s a good or bad idea… |
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 26, 2022 11:20:47 GMT
Indeed. Sunak at least appears to have an air of pragmatism about him. Truss - to me at least- comes across as an economically illiterate divisive populist who - like her boss - fancies the trappings of office more than the responsibility that comes with it. "Taxes are not the same as interest rates" Thanks Liz - I never knew that. I might be imagining it , but didn't she imply that she'd leave the details ( as long as she is clear on the direction of travel)of the financial strategy to the Chancellor. Not a bad idea really, if we can move away from a presidential Prime Minister, to a " first amongst equals" So if the chancellor's details don't add up to her direction then she'll presumably change her mind? Rather an odd line to take if you're set about trashing a former chancellor's approach - who presumably does understand tbe detail (and maybe something she struggled with whilst in the Treasury - where she didn't stay long). But then I find her rather an odd woman ("the closest you'll find in politics to properly crackers" according to Mr Cummings) |
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