|
Post by Veritas on Nov 1, 2022 12:44:58 GMT
Both the actions of the Qataris and the lack of comment from FIFA are disgusting but totally unsurprising.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 1, 2022 14:36:23 GMT
The more I hear about this World Cup the worst it gets tbh. The Ministers comments are quite unbelievable? What does it mean show respect anyway? I'd love him to expand on what he suggests people should and shouldn't being doing or saying exactly? If they can't accept behaviours that are the norm in most parts of the world then they shouldn't be hosting a tournament that is open to the rest of the world. My only slim hope is that this will bring certain ethical issues to a head but I'm not putting my mortgage on it. With all due respect, that’s bollocks. This really comes down to respect for others, and that doesn’t mean you only respect those who agree with you. Whatever the customs are in the place you go to, you should respect them, in the same way those who visit the UK should respect our customs. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t go, but to say they shouldn’t host it because you can’t or don’t respect that others have different views or different values is idiotic - it’s a sad state of affairs that this is now the norm in our society so it’s not just you I’m having a go at, it’s this pervasive attitude of ‘if you don’t agree with me your view is not worth my time’.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 1, 2022 14:38:17 GMT
The more I hear about this World Cup the worst it gets tbh. The Ministers comments are quite unbelievable? What does it mean show respect anyway? I'd love him to expand on what he suggests people should and shouldn't being doing or saying exactly? If they can't accept behaviours that are the norm in most parts of the world then they shouldn't be hosting a tournament that is open to the rest of the world. My only slim hope is that this will bring certain ethical issues to a head but I'm not putting my mortgage on it. With all due respect, that’s bollocks. This really comes down to respect for others, and that doesn’t mean you only respect those who agree with you. Whatever the customs are in the place you go to, you should respect them, in the same way those who visit the UK should respect our customs. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t go, but to say they shouldn’t host it because you can’t or don’t respect that others have different views or different values is idiotic - it’s a sad state of affairs that this is now the norm in our society so it’s not just you I’m having a go at, it’s this pervasive attitude of ‘if you don’t agree with me your view is not worth my time’. For the record I think having the World Cup in Qatar is totally wrong and I don’t support it for many different reasons
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 1, 2022 14:43:51 GMT
It's good. But others have to follow it up with their own statements. This is just a glorified arm band, it’s meaningless. If they had the courage to stand up for what they believe is right they’d boycott the tournament, but all this does is confirm that they don’t have that courage, not even close. They do want to appear to be morally upstanding in the media though, and call me a cynic but that’s what’s driven this if you ask me. Either do something meaningful or shut up is my take on it.
|
|
|
Post by toppercorner on Nov 1, 2022 14:54:13 GMT
The more I hear about this World Cup the worst it gets tbh. The Ministers comments are quite unbelievable? What does it mean show respect anyway? I'd love him to expand on what he suggests people should and shouldn't being doing or saying exactly? If they can't accept behaviours that are the norm in most parts of the world then they shouldn't be hosting a tournament that is open to the rest of the world. My only slim hope is that this will bring certain ethical issues to a head but I'm not putting my mortgage on it. With all due respect, that’s bollocks. This really comes down to respect for others, and that doesn’t mean you only respect those who agree with you. Whatever the customs are in the place you go to, you should respect them, in the same way those who visit the UK should respect our customs. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t go, but to say they shouldn’t host it because you can’t or don’t respect that others have different views or different values is idiotic - it’s a sad state of affairs that this is now the norm in our society so it’s not just you I’m having a go at, it’s this pervasive attitude of ‘if you don’t agree with me your view is not worth my time’. You are right in that wherever you go, you should respect the local way of life. There is quite a large but ..... But the WC doesn't have to aline with Qatari values. It is a tournament that holds these inclusive values as part of the entire package. Quite simply, if the Qatari's don't like what the WC brings, then they shouldn't have bid for it. No one forced them too. In fact, that corrupt despotic state went out of it's way to get the WC at all costs. So they should put up with what the WC brings for a month. I myself think it's abhorrent, and wouldn't dream of going to Qatar (or any Arab state).
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 1, 2022 15:02:42 GMT
With all due respect, that’s bollocks. This really comes down to respect for others, and that doesn’t mean you only respect those who agree with you. Whatever the customs are in the place you go to, you should respect them, in the same way those who visit the UK should respect our customs. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t go, but to say they shouldn’t host it because you can’t or don’t respect that others have different views or different values is idiotic - it’s a sad state of affairs that this is now the norm in our society so it’s not just you I’m having a go at, it’s this pervasive attitude of ‘if you don’t agree with me your view is not worth my time’. You are right in that wherever you go, you should respect the local way of life. There is quite a large but ..... But the WC doesn't have to aline with Qatari values. It is a tournament that holds these inclusive values as part of the entire package. Quite simply, if the Qatari's don't like what the WC brings, then they shouldn't have bid for it. No one forced them too. In fact, that corrupt despotic state went out of it's way to get the WC at all costs. So they should put up with what the WC brings for a month. I myself think it's abhorrent, and wouldn't dream of going to Qatar (or any Arab state). I hear you, and I kind of agree. But inclusion when it’s taken for what it really is meant to be means that we accept others hold other values. So for Qataris and many other very religious groups, they don’t accept overt homosexuality. That’s the way of the land there, and we should accept it. If we only accept inclusivity for a set of things we’ve decided on, we get a cancel culture on an even bigger scale, effectively. To be clear, I don’t agree with their views, but I accept them and if I go to Qatar I’ll respect them. To turn it around on you, would a WC in England be inclusive for Qataris or other gulf states? From their perspective, probably not. Would we expect them to respect our values if they wanted to be part of it? Yeah we would. Why is it different? I think it’s because we’ve decided our values are superior, and maybe they are, but that’s our view, and as I pointed out above, that’s not what diversity and inclusion are really about, it’s what we’ve decided they should be - to me that is bollocks. I definitely agree it’s an absolute shit show that we’re having a WC there though, it’s almost funny what an absolute joke it is. By the way, not all ‘Arab’ states are the same, that’s a bit of a generalisation there - Oman, Morocco to name a couple - well worth a visit.
|
|
|
Post by citynickscfc on Nov 1, 2022 20:22:01 GMT
You are right in that wherever you go, you should respect the local way of life. There is quite a large but ..... But the WC doesn't have to aline with Qatari values. It is a tournament that holds these inclusive values as part of the entire package. Quite simply, if the Qatari's don't like what the WC brings, then they shouldn't have bid for it. No one forced them too. In fact, that corrupt despotic state went out of it's way to get the WC at all costs. So they should put up with what the WC brings for a month. I myself think it's abhorrent, and wouldn't dream of going to Qatar (or any Arab state). I hear you, and I kind of agree. But inclusion when it’s taken for what it really is meant to be means that we accept others hold other values. So for Qataris and many other very religious groups, they don’t accept overt homosexuality. That’s the way of the land there, and we should accept it. If we only accept inclusivity for a set of things we’ve decided on, we get a cancel culture on an even bigger scale, effectively. To be clear, I don’t agree with their views, but I accept them and if I go to Qatar I’ll respect them. To turn it around on you, would a WC in England be inclusive for Qataris or other gulf states? From their perspective, probably not. Would we expect them to respect our values if they wanted to be part of it? Yeah we would. Why is it different? I think it’s because we’ve decided our values are superior, and maybe they are, but that’s our view, and as I pointed out above, that’s not what diversity and inclusion are really about, it’s what we’ve decided they should be - to me that is bollocks. I definitely agree it’s an absolute shit show that we’re having a WC there though, it’s almost funny what an absolute joke it is. By the way, not all ‘Arab’ states are the same, that’s a bit of a generalisation there - Oman, Morocco to name a couple - well worth a visit. You are mixing superior with equitable and ignoring basic human rights which are not agreed upon by Qatar, but are considered...well... The basic rights of every single human being on the planet. And no, absolutely no one should "accept" the beliefs of others when they lead to discrimination, rape, torture, disregard, racism, paedophilia, murder, etc. If you are willing to accept there is differences in attitudes in the world you would expect others to acknowledge differences exist and thus accept them also. You cannot say that "things are done differently here, you have to accept them"... Children forced into slavery etc. Just think what you are suggesting for a second. Respecting a certain cultural way of life, yes. But if tribe was murdering, raping, enslaving??? That's not a culture. So no, please don't respect it. Sickening.
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 1, 2022 20:58:32 GMT
When I'm abroad wherever in the world I respect their laws and Qatar would be no different I may not like, agree or indeed be outraged at them but I'd respect them while I was there.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 1, 2022 23:30:11 GMT
I hear you, and I kind of agree. But inclusion when it’s taken for what it really is meant to be means that we accept others hold other values. So for Qataris and many other very religious groups, they don’t accept overt homosexuality. That’s the way of the land there, and we should accept it. If we only accept inclusivity for a set of things we’ve decided on, we get a cancel culture on an even bigger scale, effectively. To be clear, I don’t agree with their views, but I accept them and if I go to Qatar I’ll respect them. To turn it around on you, would a WC in England be inclusive for Qataris or other gulf states? From their perspective, probably not. Would we expect them to respect our values if they wanted to be part of it? Yeah we would. Why is it different? I think it’s because we’ve decided our values are superior, and maybe they are, but that’s our view, and as I pointed out above, that’s not what diversity and inclusion are really about, it’s what we’ve decided they should be - to me that is bollocks. I definitely agree it’s an absolute shit show that we’re having a WC there though, it’s almost funny what an absolute joke it is. By the way, not all ‘Arab’ states are the same, that’s a bit of a generalisation there - Oman, Morocco to name a couple - well worth a visit. You are mixing superior with equitable and ignoring basic human rights which are not agreed upon by Qatar, but are considered...well... The basic rights of every single human being on the planet. And no, absolutely no one should "accept" the beliefs of others when they lead to discrimination, rape, torture, disregard, racism, paedophilia, murder, etc. If you are willing to accept there is differences in attitudes in the world you would expect others to acknowledge differences exist and thus accept them also. You cannot say that "things are done differently here, you have to accept them"... Children forced into slavery etc. Just think what you are suggesting for a second. Respecting a certain cultural way of life, yes. But if tribe was murdering, raping, enslaving??? That's not a culture. So no, please don't respect it. Sickening. I was talking mainly about their beliefs and views on homosexuality, alcohol consumption and casual sex. I think you misunderstood
|
|
|
Post by citynickscfc on Nov 2, 2022 5:31:16 GMT
You are mixing superior with equitable and ignoring basic human rights which are not agreed upon by Qatar, but are considered...well... The basic rights of every single human being on the planet. And no, absolutely no one should "accept" the beliefs of others when they lead to discrimination, rape, torture, disregard, racism, paedophilia, murder, etc. If you are willing to accept there is differences in attitudes in the world you would expect others to acknowledge differences exist and thus accept them also. You cannot say that "things are done differently here, you have to accept them"... Children forced into slavery etc. Just think what you are suggesting for a second. Respecting a certain cultural way of life, yes. But if tribe was murdering, raping, enslaving??? That's not a culture. So no, please don't respect it. Sickening. I was talking mainly about their beliefs and views on homosexuality, alcohol consumption and casual sex. I think you misunderstood All of which are done by the rich and famous in said countries anyway... If they are done behind closed doors, and respectfully, then what is the issue? As said it's a form of control, authoritarianism, and thus should not be" "respected". Add to that the crimes against humanity that are well known in the area as I stated previous and to be honest anyone going to the area for pleasure should very well be ashamed.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 2, 2022 7:40:21 GMT
I was talking mainly about their beliefs and views on homosexuality, alcohol consumption and casual sex. I think you misunderstood All of which are done by the rich and famous in said countries anyway... If they are done behind closed doors, and respectfully, then what is the issue? As said it's a form of control, authoritarianism, and thus should not be" "respected". Add to that the crimes against humanity that are well known in the area as I stated previous and to be honest anyone going to the area for pleasure should very well be ashamed. Now you are conflating the two issues. There very well may be hypocrisy in the society there, but the societal norms are pretty well defined. They don’t have to respect overt sexuality, excessive alcohol consumption etc etc, and anyone that does go should accept that they don’t.
|
|
|
Post by citynickscfc on Nov 2, 2022 10:47:24 GMT
All of which are done by the rich and famous in said countries anyway... If they are done behind closed doors, and respectfully, then what is the issue? As said it's a form of control, authoritarianism, and thus should not be" "respected". Add to that the crimes against humanity that are well known in the area as I stated previous and to be honest anyone going to the area for pleasure should very well be ashamed. Now you are conflating the two issues. There very well may be hypocrisy in the society there, but the societal norms are pretty well defined. They don’t have to respect overt sexuality, excessive alcohol consumption etc etc, and anyone that does go should accept that they don’t. By no means do the people who live there get to decide on their 'norms'. These are enforced by threat of death, which is part of the issue here isn't it? How can one be 'gay' in public? Can you hug another guy? Alcohol being banned really isn't that much of a big deal, but you cannot ban mutual affection, expression, love, music etc etc. Again these are basic human rights. They are created by the rich to oppress, and thus as a dictatorship should absolutely not be respected by anyone who values human rights. The issues are absolutely intertwined.
|
|
|
Post by toppercorner on Nov 2, 2022 10:57:43 GMT
You are right in that wherever you go, you should respect the local way of life. There is quite a large but ..... But the WC doesn't have to aline with Qatari values. It is a tournament that holds these inclusive values as part of the entire package. Quite simply, if the Qatari's don't like what the WC brings, then they shouldn't have bid for it. No one forced them too. In fact, that corrupt despotic state went out of it's way to get the WC at all costs. So they should put up with what the WC brings for a month. I myself think it's abhorrent, and wouldn't dream of going to Qatar (or any Arab state). I hear you, and I kind of agree. But inclusion when it’s taken for what it really is meant to be means that we accept others hold other values. So for Qataris and many other very religious groups, they don’t accept overt homosexuality. That’s the way of the land there, and we should accept it. If we only accept inclusivity for a set of things we’ve decided on, we get a cancel culture on an even bigger scale, effectively. To be clear, I don’t agree with their views, but I accept them and if I go to Qatar I’ll respect them. To turn it around on you, would a WC in England be inclusive for Qataris or other gulf states? From their perspective, probably not. Would we expect them to respect our values if they wanted to be part of it? Yeah we would. Why is it different? I think it’s because we’ve decided our values are superior, and maybe they are, but that’s our view, and as I pointed out above, that’s not what diversity and inclusion are really about, it’s what we’ve decided they should be - to me that is bollocks. I definitely agree it’s an absolute shit show that we’re having a WC there though, it’s almost funny what an absolute joke it is. By the way, not all ‘Arab’ states are the same, that’s a bit of a generalisation there - Oman, Morocco to name a couple - well worth a visit. I've been to Morocco, it's African. Oman, it's another swerve from me. It's a generalisation because i have found it to be true, that the Arab/Middle East countries aren't hospitable to the gay community, the misogyny towards women, and the fact that i personally find them deprived of all the fun things i want when i go away. Alcohol, fun, singing, dancing etc and my other half doesn't want to wear a headscarf whilst mooching about in public. They have so many oppressive rules that it bends my head to think the place can be enjoyed. If i ended up there on business, of course i'd do everything to follow all rules in their locality. But to go by choice? Not a chance, especially when there are so many places in the world to be explored where you can be yourself.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Nov 2, 2022 12:33:24 GMT
When I'm abroad wherever in the world I respect their laws and Qatar would be no different I may not like, agree or indeed be outraged at them but I'd respect them while I was there. This is not the issue though is it? The event itself has a set of values. It is up to the host nation to adhere to these values wherever that might be. If they can't do that then they shouldn't be hosting it. So it is up to the host to adhere to those values and those values should apply to anyone either attending or contributing to that event. It's not remotely the same as going on holiday to Qatar where I would indeed follow their laws if I chose to go there.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Nov 2, 2022 12:37:46 GMT
The more I hear about this World Cup the worst it gets tbh. The Ministers comments are quite unbelievable? What does it mean show respect anyway? I'd love him to expand on what he suggests people should and shouldn't being doing or saying exactly? If they can't accept behaviours that are the norm in most parts of the world then they shouldn't be hosting a tournament that is open to the rest of the world. My only slim hope is that this will bring certain ethical issues to a head but I'm not putting my mortgage on it. With all due respect, that’s bollocks. This really comes down to respect for others, and that doesn’t mean you only respect those who agree with you. Whatever the customs are in the place you go to, you should respect them, in the same way those who visit the UK should respect our customs. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t go, but to say they shouldn’t host it because you can’t or don’t respect that others have different views or different values is idiotic - it’s a sad state of affairs that this is now the norm in our society so it’s not just you I’m having a go at, it’s this pervasive attitude of ‘if you don’t agree with me your view is not worth my time’. This is not the same as going on holiday in Qatar which I think you are confusing this with. I think you have gone off on a bit of a tangent there and misunderstood my point. It is the responsibility of Qatar, or any other nation, to adhere to the values of the World Cup, not the other way around. I'm categorically not saying that Qatar laws should be what I think, which seems to be what you are suggesting I'm saying.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 2, 2022 12:52:42 GMT
With all due respect, that’s bollocks. This really comes down to respect for others, and that doesn’t mean you only respect those who agree with you. Whatever the customs are in the place you go to, you should respect them, in the same way those who visit the UK should respect our customs. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t go, but to say they shouldn’t host it because you can’t or don’t respect that others have different views or different values is idiotic - it’s a sad state of affairs that this is now the norm in our society so it’s not just you I’m having a go at, it’s this pervasive attitude of ‘if you don’t agree with me your view is not worth my time’. This is not the same as going on holiday in Qatar which I think you are confusing this with. I think you have gone off on a tangent there and misunderstood my point completely. It is the responsibility of Qatar, or any other nation, to adhere to the values of the World Cup, not the other way around. I'm categorically not saying that Qatar laws should be what I think, which seems to be what you are suggesting I'm saying. Well to me it seems like you are saying the Qatari laws should be what you think, because you think they should be excluded from hosting the World Cup on the basis that their laws differ. So, while you’re not directly saying it, that is what you are saying means - it’s not a stretch for anyone to interpret it that way. The values of the World Cup should represent the values of the World - and since we can’t really do that without philosophical arguments then surely it means everyone is included and can be represented - not just those who hold the same values as we do. That’s my whole point and I think you’ve misunderstood, not me. Neither of us know whether or not the issues we are talking about are supported by some of the population, all of it or none of it or any combination of those, and we seemed to be fine with hosting the WC in Russia where homophobia is a major issue.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 2, 2022 12:55:15 GMT
I hear you, and I kind of agree. But inclusion when it’s taken for what it really is meant to be means that we accept others hold other values. So for Qataris and many other very religious groups, they don’t accept overt homosexuality. That’s the way of the land there, and we should accept it. If we only accept inclusivity for a set of things we’ve decided on, we get a cancel culture on an even bigger scale, effectively. To be clear, I don’t agree with their views, but I accept them and if I go to Qatar I’ll respect them. To turn it around on you, would a WC in England be inclusive for Qataris or other gulf states? From their perspective, probably not. Would we expect them to respect our values if they wanted to be part of it? Yeah we would. Why is it different? I think it’s because we’ve decided our values are superior, and maybe they are, but that’s our view, and as I pointed out above, that’s not what diversity and inclusion are really about, it’s what we’ve decided they should be - to me that is bollocks. I definitely agree it’s an absolute shit show that we’re having a WC there though, it’s almost funny what an absolute joke it is. By the way, not all ‘Arab’ states are the same, that’s a bit of a generalisation there - Oman, Morocco to name a couple - well worth a visit. I've been to Morocco, it's African. Oman, it's another swerve from me. It's a generalisation because i have found it to be true, that the Arab/Middle East countries aren't hospitable to the gay community, the misogyny towards women, and the fact that i personally find them deprived of all the fun things i want when i go away. Alcohol, fun, singing, dancing etc and my other half doesn't want to wear a headscarf whilst mooching about in public. They have so many oppressive rules that it bends my head to think the place can be enjoyed. If i ended up there on business, of course i'd do everything to follow all rules in their locality. But to go by choice? Not a chance, especially when there are so many places in the world to be explored where you can be yourself. Fair enough, although I disagree that Morocco is African - I think it’s got more Arab influence but yeah.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 2, 2022 13:02:15 GMT
Now you are conflating the two issues. There very well may be hypocrisy in the society there, but the societal norms are pretty well defined. They don’t have to respect overt sexuality, excessive alcohol consumption etc etc, and anyone that does go should accept that they don’t. By no means do the people who live there get to decide on their 'norms'. These are enforced by threat of death, which is part of the issue here isn't it? How can one be 'gay' in public? Can you hug another guy? Alcohol being banned really isn't that much of a big deal, but you cannot ban mutual affection, expression, love, music etc etc. Again these are basic human rights. They are created by the rich to oppress, and thus as a dictatorship should absolutely not be respected by anyone who values human rights. The issues are absolutely intertwined. That’s very simplistic - it’s like saying our societal norms are only norms because we’re under the threat of imprisonment. And just to clarify further where you get that information from, how many people have been executed for homosexuality in Qatar? Can you point to a single case? As for being a dictatorship - i think that is also inaccurate, it’s a monarchy - and the population is so small I wouldn’t even want to guess at the size of the electorate. Nobody has banned music, affection, love - they’ve said they do not accept for religious reasons, overt homosexuality and they frown upon excessive alcohol consumption but tolerate it. There are plenty of reasons why Qatar should not be hosting the WC. The fact that gay people can’t express themselves and that nobody can get off their faced pissed are not reasons to exclude them.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Nov 2, 2022 13:06:04 GMT
This is not the same as going on holiday in Qatar which I think you are confusing this with. I think you have gone off on a tangent there and misunderstood my point completely. It is the responsibility of Qatar, or any other nation, to adhere to the values of the World Cup, not the other way around. I'm categorically not saying that Qatar laws should be what I think, which seems to be what you are suggesting I'm saying. Well to me it seems like you are saying the Qatari laws should be what you think, because you think they should be excluded from hosting the World Cup on the basis that their laws differ. So, while you’re not directly saying it, that is what you are saying means - it’s not a stretch for anyone to interpret it that way. The values of the World Cup should represent the values of the World - and since we can’t really do that without philosophical arguments then surely it means everyone is included and can be represented - not just those who hold the same values as we do. That’s my whole point and I think you’ve misunderstood, not me. Neither of us know whether or not the issues we are talking about are supported by some of the population, all of it or none of it or any combination of those, and we seemed to be fine with hosting the WC in Russia where homophobia is a major issue. The 'we' here is not me, or you, it is FIFA itself. I was basing my argument on the values and principles that are clearly stated by the host organisation for this event. I get your philosophical argument and I wouldn't disagree with that but this doesn't really apply in this case. Their principles state that member associations shall: Ensure that the principles of anti-discrimination, diversity, accessibility and inclusion, and human rights for all are protected and promoted. Are these being, or have these been applied in this case? plus there were many who expressed similar contradictions with Russia WC at the time.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 2, 2022 13:12:42 GMT
Well to me it seems like you are saying the Qatari laws should be what you think, because you think they should be excluded from hosting the World Cup on the basis that their laws differ. So, while you’re not directly saying it, that is what you are saying means - it’s not a stretch for anyone to interpret it that way. The values of the World Cup should represent the values of the World - and since we can’t really do that without philosophical arguments then surely it means everyone is included and can be represented - not just those who hold the same values as we do. That’s my whole point and I think you’ve misunderstood, not me. Neither of us know whether or not the issues we are talking about are supported by some of the population, all of it or none of it or any combination of those, and we seemed to be fine with hosting the WC in Russia where homophobia is a major issue. The 'we' here is not me, or you, it is FIFA itself. I was basing my argument on the values and principles that are clearly stated by the host organisation for this event. I get your philosophical argument and I wouldn't disagree with that but this doesn't really apply in this case. Their principles state that member associations shall: Ensure that the principles of anti-discrimination, diversity, accessibility and inclusion, and human rights for all are protected and promoted. Are these being, or have these been applied in this case? plus there were many who expressed similar contradictions with Russia WC at the time. I was basing it off a personal philosophical perspective with my own value system or set of beliefs as the basis for my view. But I can see what you are saying. To be honest, nothing that FIFA do or say means anything to me, a complete sham of an organisation full of rancid nasty folk at the top. I don’t think they’ve held to any kind of value system or mission statement for god knows how many years so why would we choose to object on this occasion over the others?
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Nov 2, 2022 14:13:54 GMT
When I'm abroad wherever in the world I respect their laws and Qatar would be no different I may not like, agree or indeed be outraged at them but I'd respect them while I was there. This is not the issue though is it? The event itself has a set of values. It is up to the host nation to adhere to these values wherever that might be. If they can't do that then they shouldn't be hosting it. So it is up to the host to adhere to those values and those values should apply to anyone either attending or contributing to that event. It's not remotely the same as going on holiday to Qatar where I would indeed follow their laws if I chose to go there. It's no difference whatsoever for me, but yes FIFA should not have picked them however they have so respect the laws if you decide to go.
|
|
|
Post by toppercorner on Nov 3, 2022 12:52:16 GMT
Ah the old "we'll teach him not to be gay in our country, by raping him ourselves" action.
In my opinion, the people who shout the loudest about how they hate the gays, tend to be the ones most likely to be still in that closet.
Appalling country, officials and mindset.
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Nov 3, 2022 13:04:48 GMT
Ah the old "we'll teach him not to be gay in our country, by raping him ourselves" action. In my opinion, the people who shout the loudest about how they hate the gays, tend to be the ones most likely to be still in that closet. Appalling country, officials and mindset. The potential downside of Twitter where everything gets believed with no verification I’d take stories like that with a massive pinch of salt tbh If it’s true it’s horrendous but the bloke accusing Qatar of doing this has his own agenda Let’s hope it’s not true
|
|
|
Post by toppercorner on Nov 3, 2022 13:10:17 GMT
Ah the old "we'll teach him not to be gay in our country, by raping him ourselves" action. In my opinion, the people who shout the loudest about how they hate the gays, tend to be the ones most likely to be still in that closet. Appalling country, officials and mindset. The potential downside of Twitter where everything gets believed I’d take stories like that with a massive pinch of salt tbh If it’s true it’s horrendous but the bloke accusing Qatar of doing this has his own agenda True, but the link from twitter, is to a news site, not just a statement that's been thrown out there. The journalist probably is disposed to lean one way, however, he seems to be an 'official' journo, rather than a self-proclaimed one. Very big claims if the story isn't real.
|
|
|
Post by biddulphchav on Nov 3, 2022 14:24:02 GMT
Ah the old "we'll teach him not to be gay in our country, by raping him ourselves" action. In my opinion, the people who shout the loudest about how they hate the gays, tend to be the ones most likely to be still in that closet. Appalling country, officials and mindset. Hopefully it’s not true. But the opposition to homosexuality is rooted in the religion, in the same way it is within Christianity. It’s a much more modest and conservative society than we are used to. Homosexuality in muslims is not permitted because of the religious conservatism but for non Muslims it is permitted - although not overt displays I.e. in public. I don’t know where you are getting your information from, but you should do some more research on this issue I think.
|
|
|
Post by thewonderstuff on Nov 3, 2022 23:00:59 GMT
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 3, 2022 23:11:59 GMT
It can……if you pay me.
Why anyone would agree to do this is beyond me.
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Nov 3, 2022 23:15:48 GMT
Do the opposite of what Fifa say
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 3, 2022 23:21:14 GMT
Ah the old "we'll teach him not to be gay in our country, by raping him ourselves" action. In my opinion, the people who shout the loudest about how they hate the gays, tend to be the ones most likely to be still in that closet. Appalling country, officials and mindset. The potential downside of Twitter where everything gets believed with no verification I’d take stories like that with a massive pinch of salt tbh If it’s true it’s horrendous but the bloke accusing Qatar of doing this has his own agenda Let’s hope it’s not true I don’t think you’re being malicious for any other reason than being a bit naive/clumsy but would you ever accuse a woman accusing someone of rape that she was making it up for their own agenda?
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Nov 4, 2022 2:47:32 GMT
Ah the old "we'll teach him not to be gay in our country, by raping him ourselves" action. In my opinion, the people who shout the loudest about how they hate the gays, tend to be the ones most likely to be still in that closet. Appalling country, officials and mindset. The potential downside of Twitter where everything gets believed with no verification I’d take stories like that with a massive pinch of salt tbh If it’s true it’s horrendous but the bloke accusing Qatar of doing this has his own agenda Let’s hope it’s not true Hope it isn't true but it's entirely feasible.
|
|