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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Dec 4, 2021 14:46:04 GMT
I mentioned the Qatar Grand Prix in an older World Cup thread, pointing out that Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel spoke out against Qatar's human rights record while in Qatar. That's raising awareness to millions of people around the world who wouldn't otherwise be aware of the issues. They've spoken about human rights again at this weekend's Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. Vettel organised a go-karting event for women, who are still largely banned from driving in Saudi Arabia (despite the 'official' ban being lifted 2-3 years ago). Of course the World Cup in Qatar shouldn't be happening, and the deaths and shocking treatment of workers who helped make it a reality should not be forgotten. It's a disgrace, but it is happening, so my hope is there are at least a few managers/players/other staff who - like Hamilton and Vettel - will talk about the human rights issues in the Middle East when they're out in Qatar. No pressure on anyone to do so, but I think that would be better than teams pulling out of the competition at this late stage. This article about motorsport in the Middle East I just read includes Hazel Southwell, a gay motorsport journalist who was livid when a Formula E race was announced in Qatar, and she feared for her life when visiting the country for work. But her views have changed: "There are 34 million people who live in Saudi Arabia. We don't know very much about them," says Hazel - adding that quality of life can be "very poor".She believes bringing large international sporting events to the country can help improve human rights and increase grassroots sport opportunities."To hold an FIA (motorsport's world governing body) sanctioned race, Saudi Arabia had to let women drive," Hazel says.Reema Juffali has since become Saudi Arabia's first female professional racing driver. While sport is never gong to fix everything, Hazel thinks it can help."With the doors completely closed on Saudi Arabia, nothing had improved for 40 years," she says."There is, to an extent, more reform happening because the world's eyes are on it."I myself love travelling, and there isn't a country I wouldn't visit. The closest I've been (in terms of a country and its current human rights record) to Qatar or Saudi Arabia is China, and I feel I'm better informed about the country and its people after visiting. I learned things I wouldn't have otherwise, including personal stories of how people are treated. Yes, most footballers will likely be in a bubble that doesn't allow that, but visiting a country or participating in an event there doesn't mean you support anything about that country and its state. And don't forget there are many countries who've hosted big tournaments for years who have their own human rights issues. Countries in the Middle East are often criticised for their views on same sex relationships, yet homosexuality was only made completely legal in the UK in 2013. Look at the abortion laws in Northern Ireland. The Windrush generation and similar ongoing issues. The UK still sells weaponry to Saudi Arabia. The UK doesn't have a moral high ground whether it's the present or the past. TL;DR: hopefully some well-known managers & players will speak up in Qatar and raise awareness of its human rights issues to the rest of the world. If that happens, while not forgetting it shouldn't be happening in the first place, the Qatar World Cup can become a force for good.
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Post by Veritas on Dec 4, 2021 17:19:30 GMT
No
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2021 17:22:23 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 4, 2021 17:24:38 GMT
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Post by cheadlepotter on Dec 4, 2021 17:30:00 GMT
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Post by neckender78 on Dec 4, 2021 17:31:15 GMT
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Post by gawa on Dec 4, 2021 17:39:21 GMT
Great post, certainly raises some good points. Without the World Cup there would definitely be less people talking about the human rights issues. I think it can definitely have both positive and negative impacts.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 4, 2021 17:50:12 GMT
Did awareness need raising, surely it's pretty well known by now.
Actions like refusing to go would have been something with a bit more credit to it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2021 17:51:48 GMT
Did awareness need raising, surely it's pretty well known by now. Actions like refusing to go would have been something with a bit more credit to it. Totally agree. It's the biggest scandal in the modern game.
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 4, 2021 17:57:41 GMT
Beckham has sold his soul , and No
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 4, 2021 17:58:39 GMT
The fact is IF, and a big if, Qatar did modify, or reform their behaviour to any positive effect with regards to their population, and as a direct consequence of the World Cup, then the answer to this would simply have to be Yes, whatever we would like the answer to be. How could it not be?
I say this as someone who opposes Qatar being awarded this competition.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Dec 4, 2021 18:55:31 GMT
Did awareness need raising, surely it's pretty well known by now. Actions like refusing to go would have been something with a bit more credit to it. But why deprive your country of something that provides so much joy (and despair) for whatever the population of your country is, just because of the actions of the state in another country? As I'm English, why deprive the England players and staff the chance of winning the World Cup? Qatar shouldn't be hosting the World Cup, but they are. And yes, awareness most definitely needs raising. Not everyone lives in the same bubble.
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Post by sticky on Dec 4, 2021 18:58:29 GMT
No, absolute piss take how they’re hosting it
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Post by TinkerT on Dec 4, 2021 19:22:16 GMT
The whole middle east in general isn't in line with Western life. Even dubai you can be arrested for drinking in public or sleeping in the same hotel room as someone your not married with.
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Post by hcstokie on Dec 4, 2021 19:42:44 GMT
No.
The best way of raising awareness now would be to let them spunk their money up the wall and then for all teams to protest and refuse to attend.
Sadly, money talks. There will be some half hearted intro to the coverage making out as if it’s a really inclusive and understanding country, then everyone will feck off home and nothing will change.
The hypocrisy on show when the players ‘take the knee’ when thousands have died and worked in appalling conditions to deliver this tournament will be sickening.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Dec 4, 2021 20:04:56 GMT
Did awareness need raising, surely it's pretty well known by now. Actions like refusing to go would have been something with a bit more credit to it. But why deprive your country of something that provides so much joy (and despair) for whatever the population of your country is, just because of the actions of the state in another country? As I'm English, why deprive the England players and staff the chance of winning the World Cup? Qatar shouldn't be hosting the World Cup, but they are. And yes, awareness most definitely needs raising. Not everyone lives in the same bubble. They're waggling their finger with one hand and taking the money with the other, lets not pretend its about fans of whichever sport. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made buy those that can make an actual difference.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Dec 4, 2021 21:51:12 GMT
But why deprive your country of something that provides so much joy (and despair) for whatever the population of your country is, just because of the actions of the state in another country? As I'm English, why deprive the England players and staff the chance of winning the World Cup? Qatar shouldn't be hosting the World Cup, but they are. And yes, awareness most definitely needs raising. Not everyone lives in the same bubble. They're waggling their finger with one hand and taking the money with the other, lets not pretend its about fans of whichever sport. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made buy those that can make an actual difference. I'm not pretending it's about the fans. Of course it isn't for those who make the decisions on where to host events. They don't care. But I'd be disappointed if Hamilton or Verstappen pulled out of the Saudi Grand Prix this weekend, for example, because I want to see a title fight. If it was about fans and spreading the game and its benefits more worldwide, those in power would have found a way to host another World Cup in Africa, or if Asia - India, or maybe Iran given they're the highest-ranked men's football team.
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Post by hcstokie on Dec 4, 2021 22:16:24 GMT
They're waggling their finger with one hand and taking the money with the other, lets not pretend its about fans of whichever sport. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made buy those that can make an actual difference. I'm not pretending it's about the fans. Of course it isn't for those who make the decisions on where to host events. They don't care. But I'd be disappointed if Hamilton or Verstappen pulled out of the Saudi Grand Prix this weekend, for example, because I want to see a title fight. If it was about fans and spreading the game and its benefits more worldwide, those in power would have found a way to host another World Cup in Africa, or if Asia - India, or maybe Iran given they're the highest-ranked men's football team. The point is the ‘title fight’ could happen anywhere in the world. If any football associations actually practice what they preach this farce would have been cancelled years ago. I’m sure they’ll continue pushing the usual messaging about all things politically correct whilst having their nose firmly in the trough though.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Dec 4, 2021 22:55:01 GMT
I'm not pretending it's about the fans. Of course it isn't for those who make the decisions on where to host events. They don't care. But I'd be disappointed if Hamilton or Verstappen pulled out of the Saudi Grand Prix this weekend, for example, because I want to see a title fight. If it was about fans and spreading the game and its benefits more worldwide, those in power would have found a way to host another World Cup in Africa, or if Asia - India, or maybe Iran given they're the highest-ranked men's football team. The point is the ‘title fight’ could happen anywhere in the world. If any football associations actually practice what they preach this farce would have been cancelled years ago. I addressed that already. It's happening in Qatar now and nothing is going to prevent that, and there's a chance to use it as a force for good. If teams were going to pull out, they should have done that years ago.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Dec 4, 2021 23:02:45 GMT
Having read Ken Besingers book Red Card couple of years ago about corruption and fraud in the hierarchy of FIFA and other football confederations I am not surprised that the deceit and hypocrisy continues unabated. I have not watched any of the qualifiers and will not watch any of the finals. It stinks.
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Post by hcstokie on Dec 4, 2021 23:07:52 GMT
The point is the ‘title fight’ could happen anywhere in the world. If any football associations actually practice what they preach this farce would have been cancelled years ago. I addressed that already. It's happening in Qatar now and nothing is going to prevent that, and there's a chance to use it as a force for good. If teams were going to pull out, they should have done that years ago. The chance to use it for good has been and gone. If they made their bid based on progressive policies for their workers/citizens and delivered this then fair enough. This is about money and exploitation. No amount of virtue signalling from a handful of billionaires and millionaire sportsman will change that (either in the short or long term). I hope I’m wrong but these systems and regimes have a habit of protecting themselves for their own benefit.
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Post by torgaustokie on Dec 4, 2021 23:59:15 GMT
Having the World Cup in Qatar will change nothing its just the same as wasting lives and billions of pounds in Afghanistan its just window dressing
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Dec 5, 2021 0:26:18 GMT
I’m sure there’ll be a few beheaders scored from corners.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Dec 5, 2021 0:32:32 GMT
No. The best way of raising awareness now would be to let them spunk their money up the wall and then for all teams to protest and refuse to attend. Sadly, money talks. There will be some half hearted intro to the coverage making out as if it’s a really inclusive and understanding country, then everyone will feck off home and nothing will change. The hypocrisy on show when the players ‘take the knee’ when thousands have died and worked in appalling conditions to deliver this tournament will be sickening. Agreed that the players should take a consistent approach or it will look hypocritical and selective of which issues they think deserve attention, however that consistency and hypocrisy goes both ways. People can't slag the players off for taking a knee and getting involved in politics if they then insist that players should boycott tournaments specifically because of politics. It isn't just the players that can't have it both ways.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 5, 2021 0:42:30 GMT
Absolutely not. It should never have approved as a venue in the first place and only occurred because of blatant corruption with FIFA. Appeasement is never a sound policy because it perpetuates evil.
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Post by Veritas on Dec 5, 2021 1:04:07 GMT
The point is the ‘title fight’ could happen anywhere in the world. If any football associations actually practice what they preach this farce would have been cancelled years ago. I addressed that already. It's happening in Qatar now and nothing is going to prevent that, and there's a chance to use it as a force for good. If teams were going to pull out, they should have done that years ago. What exactly would register as using it as a force for good?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2021 1:43:14 GMT
I love the 'raising awareness' idea.
Diana did it in Cambodia. She raised awareness of land mines which was a fantastic gesture. Lewis Hamilton has raised awareness in Qatar and competed in a grand Prix. Well done to him on his wonderful work.
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 5, 2021 3:06:16 GMT
Having the World Cup in Qatar will change nothing its just the same as wasting lives and billions of pounds in Afghanistan its just window dressing Sportswashing is the latest terminology for it. Some laws on some things could soften. BUT what happens after the world cup? By the middle of 2024 it could just go back to draconian laws.
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Post by dirtclod on Dec 5, 2021 3:08:17 GMT
FIFA made a morally-bankrupt decision to award this thing to a morally-bankrupt country. In a region where Security-risks are permanently at duck & cover levels and there's always room in the stands to support the neighborhood weekly Jihad. I just hope to God that that the thing comes off safely.
I think we want and should try to pull SOMETHING good out of most things if we can. But I don't see much to go on yet. And say what you want about celebrities seeking publicity, good for any of them who speaks out against it.
Countries should have boycotted it. (ffs that's just blatantly obvious) but it's too late now. But what about the players? [winces] Because as it stands right now, playing in that competition is a damning indictment for those who have claimed to be so in tune to the subject of human-rights. I suspect that we will hear more from that front.
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Post by hcstokie on Dec 5, 2021 8:23:25 GMT
No. The best way of raising awareness now would be to let them spunk their money up the wall and then for all teams to protest and refuse to attend. Sadly, money talks. There will be some half hearted intro to the coverage making out as if it’s a really inclusive and understanding country, then everyone will feck off home and nothing will change. The hypocrisy on show when the players ‘take the knee’ when thousands have died and worked in appalling conditions to deliver this tournament will be sickening. Agreed that the players should take a consistent approach or it will look hypocritical and selective of which issues they think deserve attention, however that consistency and hypocrisy goes both ways. People can't slag the players off for taking a knee and getting involved in politics if they then insist that players should boycott tournaments specifically because of politics. It isn't just the players that can't have it both ways. I don’t have a problem with players getting involved in politics. Rashford has shown how you can make a real positive difference. The issue I have with Qatar is it’s blatantly corrupt and the appalling stories of working conditions and loss of life. No condemnation of it will change things, but boycotting it may make them think again about their actions. It certainly wouldn’t have much impact on their wallets so I don’t even see this changing anything.
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