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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 21, 2022 10:50:12 GMT
And actually big in regards to the issues a few on here want to address - energy prices. These two fuckers (Qatar and Saudi) have played very big parts in making sure the prices stay high by not increasing production. another reason to shun then. And why the “green agenda”, what a cunty term is so damn important so we aren’t dependent on these fuckers for much longer. You are just so far gone its unbelievable! Why did you ask me if I was part of the LGBTQ+ community?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 21, 2022 10:51:35 GMT
And you can imagine the discussions at the time "we don't want to upset Mr Hitler, it might make him angry and do something we don't like". We never fucking learn.
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Post by andystokey on Nov 21, 2022 10:55:47 GMT
As I said yesterday all these teams that were going to wear this armband and are now not allowed should in my opinion walkout of the tournament I'd like to see this as the total annihilation of Fifa, a bit like the PDC did but for the good of the game. If the FA had any balls they would contact all the other UEFA nations and say "one goes we all go". If the Netherlands, Germany and England were banned together as a sporting sanction Fifa would fall. Can you imagine the headlines? "Fifa sanctions countries for anti-discrimination stance." Fifa need to pick a side: The greatest footballing heritage on the planet or a bunch of footballing no marks with dirty money. Young lads at Sunday matches are either going to watch their heroes roll over or stand up for something.
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 21, 2022 10:56:22 GMT
And you can imagine the discussions at the time "we don't want to upset Mr Hitler, it might make him angry and do something we don't like". We never fucking learn. I was reading about the England team and this. Apparently, none of the England players wanted to do it, but were instructed by the FA directly from Neville Chamberlain. He said words to the effect of us nearly being at war and let’s not antagonise. In these circumstances I can kind of see his point notwithstanding what came to pass; the threat of war was real. It was only Stan Cullis who refused so he was dropped. Obviously, we aren’t at the point of war with Quatar, so this response is shameful in my opinion and how they have bottled it.
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Post by flea79 on Nov 21, 2022 10:56:27 GMT
we are not going too win, why dont our players just symbolically leave the pitch, make a real statement
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 21, 2022 10:57:21 GMT
And you can imagine the discussions at the time "we don't want to upset Mr Hitler, it might make him angry and do something we don't like". We never fucking learn. I was reading about the England team and this. Apparently, none of the England players wanted to do it, but were instructed by the FA directly from Neville Chamberlain. He said words to the effect of us nearly being at war and let’s not antagonise. In these circumstances I can kind of see his point notwithstanding what came to pass. It was only Stan Cullis who refused so he was dropped. Obviously, we aren’t at the point of war with Quatar, so this response is shameful in my opinion and how they have bottled it. He was appeasing tosser in general though wasn't he? Proven totally wrong and a big part of the problem. We need to learn from his uselessness re Hitler.
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 21, 2022 11:02:18 GMT
I was reading about the England team and this. Apparently, none of the England players wanted to do it, but were instructed by the FA directly from Neville Chamberlain. He said words to the effect of us nearly being at war and let’s not antagonise. In these circumstances I can kind of see his point notwithstanding what came to pass. It was only Stan Cullis who refused so he was dropped. Obviously, we aren’t at the point of war with Quatar, so this response is shameful in my opinion and how they have bottled it. He was appeasing tosser in general though wasn't he? Proven totally wrong and a big part of the problem. We need to learn from his uselessness re Hitler. Chamberlain’s ineptitude is well documented and I am all for standing up against bullies. In 1938 the rise of Germany was a threat to the world and if there was a way of making him even more angry why do it? I actually think the call for the England team then was right, although it delayed things by 12 months. Today is very different and what I’m saying is there is a time and a place……1938 v Germany was not, 2022 in Quatar most certainly is.
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Post by noustie on Nov 21, 2022 11:04:57 GMT
What a terrible message. The correct message would be to have boycotted the event and the arm band was always a sticking plaster to seem to appear to be doing something. However, the message was worth paying a couple of quid over but not serious enough for taking a couple of bookings over – surely they could just rotate the captaincy! What it essentially says is progressing in this backwards shithole world cup is more important than the message of gay rights which essentially proves the arm band was a virtue signal as suspected in the first place else they would stand up to what is a shocking, but thoroughly unsurprising, diktat.
Be interesting to see the reaction of the Danes and Germans to this and if they pussy out too.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 21, 2022 11:05:11 GMT
Are you homosexual? If not, what do you know about how the England captain wearing a rainbow armband for all the world to see makes a homosexual feel? Have you been subjected to racism? If not, what do you know about how the England team making a symbolic gesture against racism makes those who have been racially abused feel? What difference to you does it make to your life whether or not they take a knee or wear a rainbow armband? Or are your objections just based on prejudice? The issue for me with that is England are taking the knee so presumably feel comfortable they understand the systemic issues black people still experienced following slavery in enough depth to commit; they understood all the colours of the rainbow sufficiently to wear an armband until the FA stopped them but; Southgate didn’t feel suitably up to speed on women’s rights in Iran for them to protest on it (Kane to wear a Hijab maybe?). If he’s said himself they feel unqualified to comment on something happening there how are they qualified to make a statement regarding Qatar and predominantly the US? Surely commenting on these and not protesting for women’s rights is discriminatory in itself as picking and choosing the causes that warrant virtue. There are black players in the England squad, so presumably they feel they have some understanding of issues faced by black people? I know what you mean by selectivity, but that kind of implies that causes and politics should be completely avoided or eradicated from sport? But this is not possible is it? Sometimes doing nothing is as political, or even more political as doing something. Today the FA will be sending players out basically supporting the idea that people who are homosexual are mentally ill and should be punished. That's how history will look at it and what is actually happening. It's not straightforward really, but life isn't straightforward either.
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Post by noustie on Nov 21, 2022 11:06:06 GMT
we are not going too win, why dont our players just symbolically leave the pitch, make a real statement That would be remembered much longer and much more fondly than whoever wins this shit show I would imagine.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 21, 2022 11:07:17 GMT
And you can imagine the discussions at the time "we don't want to upset Mr Hitler, it might make him angry and do something we don't like". We never fucking learn. I was reading about the England team and this. Apparently, none of the England players wanted to do it, but were instructed by the FA directly from Neville Chamberlain. He said words to the effect of us nearly being at war and let’s not antagonise. In these circumstances I can kind of see his point notwithstanding what came to pass; the threat of war was real. It was only Stan Cullis who refused so he was dropped. Obviously, we aren’t at the point of war with Quatar, so this response is shameful in my opinion and how they have bottled it. If you are gay it is war though. Being considered mentally ill and being told that your sexual orientation is punishable by death, that is being at war.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 21, 2022 11:07:21 GMT
Are you homosexual? If not, what do you know about how the England captain wearing a rainbow armband for all the world to see makes a homosexual feel? Have you been subjected to racism? If not, what do you know about how the England team making a symbolic gesture against racism makes those who have been racially abused feel? What difference to you does it make to your life whether or not they take a knee or wear a rainbow armband? Or are your objections just based on prejudice? The issue for me with that is England are taking the knee so presumably feel comfortable they understand the systemic issues black people still experienced following slavery in enough depth to commit; they understood all the colours of the rainbow sufficiently to wear an armband until the FA stopped them but; Southgate didn’t feel suitably up to speed on women’s rights in Iran for them to protest on it (Kane to wear a Hijab maybe?). If he’s said himself they feel unqualified to comment on something happening there how are they qualified to make a statement regarding Qatar and predominantly the US? Surely commenting on these and not protesting for women’s rights is discriminatory in itself as picking and choosing the causes that warrant virtue. The England team can only do so much. Highlighting some forms of prejudice is better than none at all.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 21, 2022 11:11:06 GMT
The issue for me with that is England are taking the knee so presumably feel comfortable they understand the systemic issues black people still experienced following slavery in enough depth to commit; they understood all the colours of the rainbow sufficiently to wear an armband until the FA stopped them but; Southgate didn’t feel suitably up to speed on women’s rights in Iran for them to protest on it (Kane to wear a Hijab maybe?). If he’s said himself they feel unqualified to comment on something happening there how are they qualified to make a statement regarding Qatar and predominantly the US? Surely commenting on these and not protesting for women’s rights is discriminatory in itself as picking and choosing the causes that warrant virtue. The England team can only do so much. Highlighting some forms of prejudice is better than none at all. The players should not have been put in this position. Its ridiculous and the FA is completely to blame here.Terrible incompetence and complicity.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 21, 2022 11:11:16 GMT
Thousands of supporters have paid thousands of pounds each to go to Qatar to watch the national team play in the biggest tournament in the world. Pulling out at this stage would be ridiculous and a real “fuck you” to the people who pay a large proportion of their wages. I don’t know what discussions went on before we decided to compete but they made that decision and should honour it.
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Post by devondumpling on Nov 21, 2022 11:19:42 GMT
Absolute cowards. What a terrible message. Have they not learnt anything? This appeasement does nothing but empower these people to go further. I think this is something that will come back to bite the FA and so it should. This should have been sorted out out months/years ago and to say they sent a letter which wasn't replied to, is absolutely pathetic. What about the other 8 nations who were proposing to wear the armband? Just blame the FA though, ignore the rest?
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Post by devondumpling on Nov 21, 2022 11:21:27 GMT
This last day could have been avoided early doors by just not going and boycotting it straight off before the qualifications started. If we’d have done that then we truly would have sent the very strongest message possible out. Maybe after this latest development those speaking so strongly from the media can walk out on moral grounds and stuff there pay. It’s a mess. In future world cups should only be played in Europe and South America. Well said, but why boycott Africa, North America etc hosting world cup?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 21, 2022 11:23:07 GMT
He was appeasing tosser in general though wasn't he? Proven totally wrong and a big part of the problem. We need to learn from his uselessness re Hitler. Chamberlain’s ineptitude is well documented and I am all for standing up against bullies. In 1938 the rise of Germany was a threat to the world and if there was a way of making him even more angry why do it? I actually think the call for the England team then was right, although it delayed things by 12 months. Today is very different and what I’m saying is there is a time and a place……1938 v Germany was not, 2022 in Quatar most certainly is. Yeah why stand up to the bully? The same was tried with Putin and look where that got us. It's pathetic.
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Post by noustie on Nov 21, 2022 11:28:04 GMT
The issue for me with that is England are taking the knee so presumably feel comfortable they understand the systemic issues black people still experienced following slavery in enough depth to commit; they understood all the colours of the rainbow sufficiently to wear an armband until the FA stopped them but; Southgate didn’t feel suitably up to speed on women’s rights in Iran for them to protest on it (Kane to wear a Hijab maybe?). If he’s said himself they feel unqualified to comment on something happening there how are they qualified to make a statement regarding Qatar and predominantly the US? Surely commenting on these and not protesting for women’s rights is discriminatory in itself as picking and choosing the causes that warrant virtue. The England team can only do so much. Highlighting some forms of prejudice is better than none at all. The perception with that though is then the ones you highlight appear to take precedence over the ones you choose not to. Not sure it is a good look standing up to racism, standing up (then backing down) for LBGTQ+ but not standing up for women in the country of your opponent who are being forced to marry in prison before being raped then beheaded in the morning to be honest. www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/right-now-in-iran-young-girls-are-being-forced-to-marry-prison-guards-then-executed-the-next-day/ar-AA144yGH
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 21, 2022 11:29:32 GMT
The issue for me with that is England are taking the knee so presumably feel comfortable they understand the systemic issues black people still experienced following slavery in enough depth to commit; they understood all the colours of the rainbow sufficiently to wear an armband until the FA stopped them but; Southgate didn’t feel suitably up to speed on women’s rights in Iran for them to protest on it (Kane to wear a Hijab maybe?). If he’s said himself they feel unqualified to comment on something happening there how are they qualified to make a statement regarding Qatar and predominantly the US? Surely commenting on these and not protesting for women’s rights is discriminatory in itself as picking and choosing the causes that warrant virtue. There are black players in the England squad, so presumably they feel they have some understanding of issues faced by black people? I know what you mean by selectivity, but that kind of implies that causes and politics should be completely avoided or eradicated from sport? But this is not possible is it? Sometimes doing nothing is as political, or even more political as doing something. Today the FA will be sending players out basically supporting the idea that people who are homosexual are mentally ill and should be punished. That's how history will look at it and what is actually happening. It's not straightforward really, but life isn't straightforward either. I feel for the players. Why should they as simple footballers take on the strain of decisions made they have no say in? Ultimately it was up to the FA's around the world, and their respective governments to make a stand, they chose not to. Which brings me on to the fans, again why should they be expected to make a stand? If anyone has then great that's personal choice, but why shouldn't those that choose to just watch the football lose out? It reminds me of the Newcastle takeover, ordinary fans and staff of the club are criticised for turning a blind eye to sportswashing whilst the actual government treat them as friends and allies and sell them billions of pounds worth of military equipment. And the sports regulatory body signed the very same owners (regime) off as being "fit an proper" It stinks and it's the wrong people who get put under scrutiny...........
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 11:32:01 GMT
You are just so far gone its unbelievable! Why did you ask me if I was part of the LGBTQ+ community? To understand where you are coming from, so far you just seem to regurgitate the BBC and Guardian newspaper. So I presume in your desire when we go a football match now, we have to firstly stand for the Ukraine (display hate for Putin/Hitler), clap for the NHS, kneel for BLM and somehow do something about climate change. We should get Greta to record messages to display on the screens telling us how wicked we are and the imminent climate catastrophe is all our fault due to our colonial and exploitative past. Oh I forgot we have to have rainbow laces and rainbow corner flags as well. Is there any cause we have left out here?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 21, 2022 11:33:46 GMT
Why did you ask me if I was part of the LGBTQ+ community? To understand where you are coming from, so far you just seem to regurgitate the BBC and Guardian newspaper. So I presume in your desire when we go a football match now, we have to firstly stand for the Ukraine (display hate for Putin/Hitler), clap for the NHS, kneel for BLM and somehow do something about climate change. We should get Greta to record messages to display on the screens telling us how wicked we are and the imminent climate catastrophe is all our fault due to our colonial and exploitative past. You have no idea where it's coming from.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 11:37:46 GMT
To understand where you are coming from, so far you just seem to regurgitate the BBC and Guardian newspaper. So I presume in your desire when we go a football match now, we have to firstly stand for the Ukraine (display hate for Putin/Hitler), clap for the NHS, kneel for BLM and somehow do something about climate change. We should get Greta to record messages to display on the screens telling us how wicked we are and the imminent climate catastrophe is all our fault due to our colonial and exploitative past. You have no idea where it's coming from. I did not say 'it' I said 'you' ! I wanted an idea where you are coming from, you offer nothing of substance.
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Post by potterinleeds on Nov 21, 2022 11:46:49 GMT
Be interesting to see the reaction of the Danes and Germans to this and if they pussy out too. I'm married to a German, who is currently following the German football twitter etc, and she says everyone has pulled out of wearing it, including Germany and Denmark.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Nov 21, 2022 11:47:26 GMT
To understand where you are coming from, so far you just seem to regurgitate the BBC and Guardian newspaper. So I presume in your desire when we go a football match now, we have to firstly stand for the Ukraine (display hate for Putin/Hitler), clap for the NHS, kneel for BLM and somehow do something about climate change. We should get Greta to record messages to display on the screens telling us how wicked we are and the imminent climate catastrophe is all our fault due to our colonial and exploitative past. You have no idea where it's coming from. Is there a list of "crap insults"? If so, can we add Guardian/BBC regurgitator to it? And can we place it slightly below Champagne Socialist and Virtue Signaller? But just above Glyndebourne Attender?
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Post by knype on Nov 21, 2022 11:50:23 GMT
You have no idea where it's coming from. Is there a list of "crap insults"? If so, can we add Guardian/BBC regurgitator to it? And can we place it slightly below Champagne Socialist and Virtue Signaller? But just above Glyndebourne Attender? All true though...
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Post by noustie on Nov 21, 2022 11:50:37 GMT
Be interesting to see the reaction of the Danes and Germans to this and if they pussy out too. I'm married to a German, who is currently following the German football twitter etc, and she says everyone has pulled out of wearing it, including Germany and Denmark. That’s hugely disappointing although the last interview I saw with the Danish FA they seemed to have softened too. Nueur seems bat shit mental enough to still do something so be interesting to see if a few of the players take it upon themselves to do something.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Nov 21, 2022 12:00:11 GMT
Is there a list of "crap insults"? If so, can we add Guardian/BBC regurgitator to it? And can we place it slightly below Champagne Socialist and Virtue Signaller? But just above Glyndebourne Attender? All true though... They certainly are. For example, it is by definition not possible to drink Champagne and hold socialist views.
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 21, 2022 12:00:55 GMT
There are black players in the England squad, so presumably they feel they have some understanding of issues faced by black people? I know what you mean by selectivity, but that kind of implies that causes and politics should be completely avoided or eradicated from sport? But this is not possible is it? Sometimes doing nothing is as political, or even more political as doing something. Today the FA will be sending players out basically supporting the idea that people who are homosexual are mentally ill and should be punished. That's how history will look at it and what is actually happening. It's not straightforward really, but life isn't straightforward either. I feel for the players. Why should they as simple footballers take on the strain of decisions made they have no say in? Ultimately it was up to the FA's around the world, and their respective governments to make a stand, they chose not to. Which brings me on to the fans, again why should they be expected to make a stand? If anyone has then great that's personal choice, but why shouldn't those that choose to just watch the football lose out? It reminds me of the Newcastle takeover, ordinary fans and staff of the club are criticised for turning a blind eye to sportswashing whilst the actual government treat them as friends and allies and sell them billions of pounds worth of military equipment. And the sports regulatory body signed the very same owners (regime) off as being "fit an proper" It stinks and it's the wrong people who get put under scrutiny........... Totally agree. The FA's excuses are just pathetic. They are even paid to sort these things out and they have failed miserably.
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Post by biddulphchav on Nov 21, 2022 12:02:07 GMT
Prices don’t stay high in Saudi or in Qatar - in fact prices are extremely low there. Why should they increase production now? Did we subsidise their budget when prices were at 20 bucks a barrel a couple of years ago? It’s a market and that’s how they work….and what’s more, we ourselves are sitting on a shit ton of gas, but we totally failed to put forward a soundly engineered case to get it out of the ground cos it’s easier to blame the Arabs or Putin. And that’s why we need to use less of it so we’re not so tied to maniacs. If we were the ones who had it all would we be lowering the price? History would tend to suggest absolutely not. They’re not maniacs, they know what they have and fair play to them. The only maniacs (I prefer idiots) in this are European governments who have caved to political pressure and have an energy strategy that looks like it was put together by a crackhead. An energy transition with gas as the bridge but zero investment in domestic production has left us vulnerable to global price movements - we can blame Putin all we want but why the f we don’t have any sort of contingency for something so key to our society beggars belief. But you carry on mate, I find your peculiar mix of ignorance and arrogance quite amusing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2022 12:05:09 GMT
nail on the head there, 'a peculiar mix of ignorance and arrogance'
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