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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 21:49:42 GMT
Because they Qatari government is so welcoming of such open criticism. I think as Paul has said Neville and Lineker have been way more honest than any of us thought they would be. It takes balls. Does it fuck, they’re well aware that their scripted ramblings appease the masses without going too far with their masters. I’m disappointed you can’t see something so simple to understand to be honest. I respect your opinion but you’re not backing it up with anything I didn’t expect them to go so hard in on them in the actual country. It’s clearly a risk to do so. I am, they’re questioning an authoritarian regime in their backyard. It doesn’t happen does it. Not if you want to keep your limbs.
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Post by sportsman on Nov 20, 2022 21:55:08 GMT
Does it fuck, they’re well aware that their scripted ramblings appease the masses without going too far with their masters. I’m disappointed you can’t see something so simple to understand to be honest. I respect your opinion but you’re not backing it up with anything I didn’t expect them to go so hard in on them in the actual country. It’s clearly a risk to do so. I am, they’re questioning an authoritarian regime in their backyard. It doesn’t happen does it. Not if you want to keep your limbs. Please keep posting the links to their criticism in January onwards then instead
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Post by xchpotter on Nov 20, 2022 22:06:04 GMT
I would encourage Lineker and Neville to be even more vocal and really kick off. The thought of never having to listen to those two again would be great.
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Post by musik on Nov 20, 2022 22:08:50 GMT
Gianni Infantino held a speech before the start of the World Cup 2022 tournament, where he said he felt like a qatarian, like a gay person, like a disabled, like a migrant worker and so on. The media here, tv and papers, reacted a bit odd to say the least. They said he'd lost contact with reality. They may think so if they like but what surprises me the most is they didn't understood what he meant. To be honest Musik I didn't have a clue what he meant. Thought his speech was very strange. He asked us to put all differences in opinion aside. He meant that all Europeans, Africans, homosexuals, disabled and migrant workers are as much welcome during the World Champions as anyone else.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 20, 2022 22:15:45 GMT
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Post by gawa on Nov 20, 2022 22:23:18 GMT
To be fair mate there's a load of people on here who love the Conservative party that are bank rolled by Russian oligarchs. So half the UK population are hypocrites. Same goes for the Trump lovers. The right wing are very cosy with Russia. Sure big BoJo even had meetings with Russians he failed to declare and "forgot" who he went with. And they love him too.
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Post by gawa on Nov 20, 2022 22:29:17 GMT
I was wondering who the first idiot was going to be raise this like it actually matters what I am. No I’m not, not that it’s any of your business. And it’s pretty disgusting you think it’s relevant. Why do you think it is right to infiltrate sports with BLM, rainbows and climate agenda? Don't forget poppy's. What have they got to do with football.
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Post by gawa on Nov 20, 2022 22:32:11 GMT
I've not really caught up on all the Qatar stuff or seen 2hat linnekar and Co have said. So will do some reading before engaging further.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 20, 2022 22:33:03 GMT
To be fair mate there's a load of people on here who love the Conservative party that are bank rolled by Russian oligarchs. So half the UK population are hypocrites. Same goes for the Trump lovers. The right wing are very cosy with Russia. Sure big BoJo even had meetings with Russians he failed to declare and "forgot" who he went with. And they love him too. Yep and it’s all wrong isn’t it ? The whole hypocrisy of it stinks regardless of who’s doing it. It almost makes it worse for me when those claiming to take the moral higher ground do it though as you almost expect it from the Tory party and their chums after the last couple of years but expect better from those who claim they’ve got really strong morals. I guess that greed is a strong part of the human gene and that to be successful you have to have a selfish side and be single minded but people shouldn’t make out they’re moral crusaders when they’d quite clearly sell out if they’re paid well.
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Post by devondumpling on Nov 20, 2022 22:39:00 GMT
To be fair mate there's a load of people on here who love the Conservative party that are bank rolled by Russian oligarchs. So half the UK population are hypocrites. Same goes for the Trump lovers. The right wing are very cosy with Russia. Sure big BoJo even had meetings with Russians he failed to declare and "forgot" who he went with. And they love him too. Usual biased tosh from the left wing. henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Putins-Useful-IdiotIn the UK, individuals, movements, and parties on both sides of the political spectrum have deepened ties with Russia. Some individuals have praised Putin and voiced their support for Russia’s actions in Ukraine; others have travelled to Moscow and elsewhere to participate in events organised by the Kremlin or Kremlin-backed organisations; yet more have appeared on Russia’s propaganda networks. Some movements have even aligned themselves with Kremlin-backed organisations in Russia who hold views diametrically opposed to their own; this is particularly the case for left-leaning organisations in the UK, which have established ties with far-right movements in Russia.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 22:39:54 GMT
Why do you think it is right to infiltrate sports with BLM, rainbows and climate agenda? Don't forget poppy's. What have they got to do with football. Im not a poppy fan, Im unsure when that trend started. Was it under Gordon Brown?
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 20, 2022 22:43:54 GMT
Does it fuck, they’re well aware that their scripted ramblings appease the masses without going too far with their masters. I’m disappointed you can’t see something so simple to understand to be honest. I respect your opinion but you’re not backing it up with anything I didn’t expect them to go so hard in on them in the actual country. It’s clearly a risk to do so. I am, they’re questioning an authoritarian regime in their backyard. It doesn’t happen does it. Not if you want to keep your limbs. Jesus mate, I thought you were a tolerant person. Each to their own and all that. Smacks of hypocrisy
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 20, 2022 22:49:16 GMT
And when you say people like me, you're probably talking about 95% of the country who just want to tune in and watch the footy world cup. Probably. It’s disgusting. Doesn’t mean the majority don’t think that homophobia or slavery are wrong it just means that politics should be secondary to football and that if it isn’t then there shouldn’t be a world cup held in Qatar and that it should be held somewhere with morals that those countries playing respect. The issues now causing controversy should have been identified and sorted way before the tournament started either by boycotting or getting clarity not now after the tournaments started.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 23:00:53 GMT
I didn’t expect them to go so hard in on them in the actual country. It’s clearly a risk to do so. I am, they’re questioning an authoritarian regime in their backyard. It doesn’t happen does it. Not if you want to keep your limbs. Jesus mate, I thought you were a tolerant person. Each to their own and all that. Smacks of hypocrisy They’re an authoritarian regime who still have stoning to death as a punishment, what have I said there that isn’t tolerant?
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Post by gawa on Nov 20, 2022 23:00:56 GMT
To be fair mate there's a load of people on here who love the Conservative party that are bank rolled by Russian oligarchs. So half the UK population are hypocrites. Same goes for the Trump lovers. The right wing are very cosy with Russia. Sure big BoJo even had meetings with Russians he failed to declare and "forgot" who he went with. And they love him too. Yep and it’s all wrong isn’t it ? The whole hypocrisy of it stinks regardless of who’s doing it. It almost makes it worse for me when those claiming to take the moral higher ground do it though as you almost expect it from the Tory party and their chums after the last couple of years but expect better from those who claim they’ve got really strong morals. I guess that greed is a strong part of the human gene and that to be successful you have to have a selfish side and be single minded but people shouldn’t make out they’re moral crusaders when they’d quite clearly sell out if they’re paid well. I've not really followed it all enough to comment on it fully. World Cup should never have went there in the first place. Despite the controversy surrounding Qatar getting awarded the competition; I was hoping we'd see some good come out of it. Why would you expect the Conservative party to take the moral high ground though? They're clearly lacking in the area of morals. I think for me mutual respect is very important though. We can't impose our culture on other countries and have to respect the rules. Outrage should be directed more towards Fifa than Qatar imo as they're the enablers of this. With that said though, I hope that no harm comes to any LGBT people who respect the rules in public. What they do privately in their hotel rooms though, should be exactly that - private. Likewise I think the whole 11th hour changes to alcohol is very poor taste too. I respect the rule but it should have been clear from the off well before people had already booked their trips. As I've said though I've not seen what linnekar or neville have said so I feel I'm commenting on this blindly. I feel though that whatever is said that it's surely more important to discuss the points and arguments raised than the people raising them?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 23:03:01 GMT
Probably. It’s disgusting. Doesn’t mean the majority don’t think that homophobia or slavery are wrong it just means that politics should be secondary to football and that if it isn’t then there shouldn’t be a world cup held in Qatar and that it should be held somewhere with morals that those countries playing respect. The issues now causing controversy should have been identified and sorted way before the tournament started either by boycotting or getting clarity not now after the tournaments started. But it isn’t and it wasn’t going to be. And it doesn’t matter that it wasn’t sorted, the issues are there. They have to be highlighted to show what a sham this whole thing is.
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Post by gawa on Nov 20, 2022 23:04:32 GMT
To be fair mate there's a load of people on here who love the Conservative party that are bank rolled by Russian oligarchs. So half the UK population are hypocrites. Same goes for the Trump lovers. The right wing are very cosy with Russia. Sure big BoJo even had meetings with Russians he failed to declare and "forgot" who he went with. And they love him too. Usual biased tosh from the left wing. henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Putins-Useful-IdiotIn the UK, individuals, movements, and parties on both sides of the political spectrum have deepened ties with Russia. Some individuals have praised Putin and voiced their support for Russia’s actions in Ukraine; others have travelled to Moscow and elsewhere to participate in events organised by the Kremlin or Kremlin-backed organisations; yet more have appeared on Russia’s propaganda networks. Some movements have even aligned themselves with Kremlin-backed organisations in Russia who hold views diametrically opposed to their own; this is particularly the case for left-leaning organisations in the UK, which have established ties with far-right movements in Russia. Your url doesn't work. I get a 404 error. Not sure what the copy and paste is about either. It's common knowledge that the tories are bank rolled by Russians. Donations have to be publicly declared so its very easy information to find. As far as I'm aware, the central labour parties donations mostly come from unions. Feel free to share information about their Russian donations though. As for left wing. The UK doesn't really have any left wing parties at the minute which are big enough to have an impact. The left wing labour died when Starmer became leader.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 20, 2022 23:05:28 GMT
Yep and it’s all wrong isn’t it ? The whole hypocrisy of it stinks regardless of who’s doing it. It almost makes it worse for me when those claiming to take the moral higher ground do it though as you almost expect it from the Tory party and their chums after the last couple of years but expect better from those who claim they’ve got really strong morals. I guess that greed is a strong part of the human gene and that to be successful you have to have a selfish side and be single minded but people shouldn’t make out they’re moral crusaders when they’d quite clearly sell out if they’re paid well. I've not really followed it all enough to comment on it fully. World Cup should never have went there in the first place. Despite the controversy surrounding Qatar getting awarded the competition; I was hoping we'd see some good come out of it. Why would you expect the Conservative party to take the moral high ground though? They're clearly lacking in the area of morals. I think for me mutual respect is very important though. We can't impose our culture on other countries and have to respect the rules. Outrage should be directed more towards Fifa than Qatar imo as they're the enablers of this. With that said though, I hope that no harm comes to any LGBT people who respect the rules in public. What they do privately in their hotel rooms though, should be exactly that - private. Likewise I think the whole 11th hour changes to alcohol is very poor taste too. I respect the rule but it should have been clear from the off well before people had already booked their trips. As I've said though I've not seen what linnekar or neville have said so I feel I'm commenting on this blindly. I feel though that whatever is said that it's surely more important to discuss the points and arguments raised than the people raising them? re the comment “Why would you expect the Conservative party to take the moral high ground though? They're clearly lacking in the area of morals.” I wasn’t talking about the Tories I was referring more to the pundits. Re the rest of the post. Spot on.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 20, 2022 23:06:38 GMT
Doesn’t mean the majority don’t think that homophobia or slavery are wrong it just means that politics should be secondary to football and that if it isn’t then there shouldn’t be a world cup held in Qatar and that it should be held somewhere with morals that those countries playing respect. The issues now causing controversy should have been identified and sorted way before the tournament started either by boycotting or getting clarity not now after the tournaments started. But it isn’t and it wasn’t going to be. And it doesn’t matter that it wasn’t sorted, the issues are there. They have to be highlighted to show what a sham this whole thing is. So what’s your overall take on what should or shouldn’t have happened?
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 20, 2022 23:09:53 GMT
That's a bonkers photo isn't it! Must be pretty weird for Alex Scott and Rio sat there now knowing they had tea and cake at the Kremlin with one of the biggest mass murderers in modern history. And they had tea and cake with him after he'd already murdered over 10,000 in the Donbass. Goes back to my earlier point. The uproar against Russia in 2018 was negligible compared to this. And that's not me criticising Russia having the World Cup per se. Russia was an awesome tournament. I had one of the best holidays of my life out there and being at the stadium in Moscow having a mental with a load of Russians as they knocked Spain out was one of my favorite football memories... However, its the hypocrisy of those who live their life on their high horse. There is absolutely nothing wrong Alex Scott taking up the offer of an opportunity to meet the Russian president at the Kremlin. In much the same way there is nothing wrong with her picking up half a million quid for a few weeks work watching the best tournament on the planet while living a life of total luxury in 5 star hotels and lavish restaurants. There is however a problem with her doing that and then making out what she's doing makes her a good person while she absolutely slaughters the nation and the tournament that has not only given her the opportunity to earn a fortune, but also given her the biggest platform of her life... While claiming she could have taken the "easy option" and stayed at home. Does she really think given all the shit ordinary Brits are facing with bills, cost of living etc that she's gonna warm to people with stuff like that? Thankfully the press have absolutely smashed her, Linekar, Shearer and Neville. They are a disgrace and not representative of many millions of English fans who don't care about their views... They want football, not Gary Neville's view on Trump or Boris.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 20, 2022 23:12:29 GMT
Jesus mate, I thought you were a tolerant person. Each to their own and all that. Smacks of hypocrisy They’re an authoritarian regime who still have stoning to death as a punishment, what have I said there that isn’t tolerant? I can only suggest you travel more. Go and see the world, it will do you some good.😊 You'll be shocked at first but you'll learn that not everyone lives in the Liberal (illiberal) society you live in.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 20, 2022 23:15:14 GMT
That's a bonkers photo isn't it! Must be pretty weird for Alex Scott and Rio sat there now knowing they had tea and cake at the Kremlin with one of the biggest mass murderers in modern history. And they had tea and cake with him after he'd already murdered over 10,000 in the Donbass. Goes back to my earlier point. The uproar against Russia in 2018 was negligible compared to this. And that's not me criticising Russia having the World Cup per se. Russia was an awesome tournament. I had one of the best holidays of my life out there and being at the stadium in Moscow having a mental with a load of Russians as they knocked Spain out was one of my favorite football memories... However, its the hypocrisy of those who live their life on their high house. There is absolutely nothing wrong Alex Scott taking up the offer of an opportunity to meet the Russian president at the Kremlin. In much the same way there is nothing wrong with her picking up half a million quid for a few weeks work watching the best tournament on the planet while living a life of total luxury in 5 star hotels and lavish restaurants. There is however a problem with her doing that and then making out what she's doing makes her a good person while she absolutely slaughters the nation and the tournament that has not only given her the opportunity to earn a fortune, but also given her the biggest platform of her life... While claiming she could have taken the "easy option" and stayed at home. Does she really think given all the shout ordinary Brits are facing with bills, cost of living etc that she's warm to people with stuff like that? Thankfully the press have absolutely smashed her, Linekar, Shearer and Neville. They are a disgrace and not representative of many millions of English fans who don't care about their views... They want football, not Gary Neville's view on Trump or Boris. spot on. As I said it’s the hypocrisy. People expect corruption from MPs but it’s this “look at me I’m a moral crusader” whist picking up bundles of cash that doesn't sit well with the public.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 23:15:40 GMT
But it isn’t and it wasn’t going to be. And it doesn’t matter that it wasn’t sorted, the issues are there. They have to be highlighted to show what a sham this whole thing is. So what’s your overall take on what should or shouldn’t have happened? They never should have been given it. Once they were teams should have boycotted. I get why they don’t, you need a collective but then once that doesn’t happen, use it as a vehicle to drive change. Only yesterday in America a shooting occurred at a gay club. The rhetoric around LGBTQ+ issues at the moment is abhorrent and will only embolden people to cause such harm.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 23:29:54 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 23:36:12 GMT
Because it’s a legal punishment there.
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Post by gawa on Nov 20, 2022 23:42:37 GMT
That's a bonkers photo isn't it! Must be pretty weird for Alex Scott and Rio sat there now knowing they had tea and cake at the Kremlin with one of the biggest mass murderers in modern history. And they had tea and cake with him after he'd already murdered over 10,000 in the Donbass. Goes back to my earlier point. The uproar against Russia in 2018 was negligible compared to this. And that's not me criticising Russia having the World Cup per se. Russia was an awesome tournament. I had one of the best holidays of my life out there and being at the stadium in Moscow having a mental with a load of Russians as they knocked Spain out was one of my favorite football memories... However, its the hypocrisy of those who live their life on their high house. There is absolutely nothing wrong Alex Scott taking up the offer of an opportunity to meet the Russian president at the Kremlin. In much the same way there is nothing wrong with her picking up half a million quid for a few weeks work watching the best tournament on the planet while living a life of total luxury in 5 star hotels and lavish restaurants. There is however a problem with her doing that and then making out what she's doing makes her a good person while she absolutely slaughters the nation and the tournament that has not only given her the opportunity to earn a fortune, but also given her the biggest platform of her life... While claiming she could have taken the "easy option" and stayed at home. Does she really think given all the shout ordinary Brits are facing with bills, cost of living etc that she's warm to people with stuff like that? Thankfully the press have absolutely smashed her, Linekar, Shearer and Neville. They are a disgrace and not representative of many millions of English fans who don't care about their views... They want football, not Gary Neville's view on Trump or Boris. spot on. As I said it’s the hypocrisy. People expect corruption from MPs but it’s this “look at me I’m a moral crusader” whist picking up bundles of cash that doesn't sit well with the public. I think sometimes though it can be challenging to raise awareness without being in a position where your voice can be heard. The definition of hypocrisy is: the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case. For me hypocrisy would be being engaging in homophobia and then condemning it in Qatar. Using the word loosely sort of detracts away from the definition. Could we call Marcus Rashford a hypocrite because he used his influence to call out the conservatives on their austerity towards kids in poverty and their stance on free school meals. But then engaged in dialogue with the very man, Boris Johnson, who imposed the austerity? Personally I don't think that's being a hypocrite. I think it's someone who holds a position of influence and using it to the greater good. It could be argued that if all journalists who disagreed stayed at home that the same exposure to some of the human rights issues wouldn't have occurred. This very thread is evidence of that. Nobody is discussing the tweets from Harry with 500 followers or what Thomas Hitzlsperger thinks. They're speaking about Shearer and Co because they've used their platform to raise their point. And through those platforms they can reach alot more people. Would people be talking about it as much if shearer was at home tweeting for example?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2022 23:45:30 GMT
Because it’s a legal punishment there. That is their laws derived from religious sharia laws, FIFA picked that country to host the World Cup, FIFA is the problem! There is no way on earth you are going to change that over there. As for the meaningless statements these media journalistitutes make in the tv studios over there, don't you think the Qatari authorities are not prepared for this and will turn the other cheek for the duration.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 20, 2022 23:47:39 GMT
So what’s your overall take on what should or shouldn’t have happened? They never should have been given it. Once they were teams should have boycotted. I get why they don’t, you need a collective but then once that doesn’t happen, use it as a vehicle to drive change. Only yesterday in America a shooting occurred at a gay club. The rhetoric around LGBTQ+ issues at the moment is abhorrent and will only embolden people to cause such harm. I’d have pulled out even if others didn’t. I think once the first country pulled out others would follow. Now that we’re here it’ll be interesting to see what the reaction will be to taking the knee or Kane wearing the band by the Qataries What will actually be achieved? and what are the players / media looking to change? Those from Qatar won’t change there views or laws will they? Isn’t the law based on religious views? How will the players / media change anything because the only people listening to them will be from there own countries who already have there views on the issues being raised. I think perhaps they’re over estimating the impact they have on the public. I can see why but I’m just not sure much will change as people already have there views set.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 23:55:19 GMT
They never should have been given it. Once they were teams should have boycotted. I get why they don’t, you need a collective but then once that doesn’t happen, use it as a vehicle to drive change. Only yesterday in America a shooting occurred at a gay club. The rhetoric around LGBTQ+ issues at the moment is abhorrent and will only embolden people to cause such harm. I’d have pulled out even if others didn’t. I think once the first country pulled out others would follow. Now that we’re here it’ll be interesting to see what the reaction will be to taking the knee or Kane wearing the band by the Qataries What will actually be achieved? and what are the players / media looking to change? Those from Qatar won’t change there views or laws will they? Isn’t the law based on religious views? How will the players / media change anything because the only people listening to them will be from there own countries who already have there views on the issues being raised. I think perhaps they’re over estimating the impact they have on the public. I can see why but I’m just not sure much will change as people already have there views set. Me too but I just don’t think these teams have the balls to do that. I think it’s raised the profile of some real world issues that still need addressing as the horrible scenes in America yesterday show. It’s already raised the profile of it all.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 23:57:50 GMT
Because it’s a legal punishment there. That is their laws derived from religious sharia laws, FIFA picked that country to host the World Cup, FIFA is the problem! There is no way on earth you are going to change that over there. As for the meaningless statements these media journalistitutes make in the tv studios over there, don't you think the Qatari authorities are not prepared for this and will turn the other cheek for the duration. Why aren’t you? I don’t think it’s guaranteed and I do think it’s tough but there are also more moderate Arab countries and you only have to look at Iran and the undercurrent of discontent to see that’s it’s not far from the surface. And why not try? To admit defeat seems a bit daft to me.
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