|
Post by xchpotter on Nov 20, 2022 19:05:39 GMT
I don’t know what anyone expected with the position of the Quataris, were they suddenly going to change? I do not agree with their view on same sex relationships, treatment of women or banning of ale, but it’s their country and their rules which were known from the get go. Blame the corrupt assholes who took the World Cup there in the first place as this is now a case of when in Rome do what the Romans do and the bitching about it now when it was known it would go like this is just seems pointless. If everyone feels as strongly as they do now, one presumes they felt this way when it was awarded which is why the only right thing to do morally was not to have gone. Oh, but money is involved and hence the morale high ground is now compromised, so their moans can’t have the same importance. I do not respect or agree with Quatar’s view on these points, but I respect their right to determine what goes on in their own country. But equally, Qatar knew what FIFA's rules on inclusivity were when they made their bid, maybe they shouldn't have in the first place. "Discriminatory offences, under The FA's ruling, can relate to ethnic origin, colour, race, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation, ability and disability." Indeed, which suggests one side has either promised to change their position and not done so, or the other side has promised not to get too heavy on it. Either way, money has compromised what are important rights and issues and created a shit storm which won’t go away. If I was a betting man I would say FIFA minimised the position of the Quataris in their quest for money; if they were serious about discrimination they would never have entertained it. We know what the view of UEFA is on punishing racist clubs and countries with pathetic sentences and I suspect the FIFA hierarchy are cut from the same cloth.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 19:05:43 GMT
So because they have a bit of money they can’t hold morals? What the fuck? Ffs 🤦♀️ morals but no principles The principle to highlight the issues and not just sit there like a lemming accepting it. How dare they try to highlight it and change it.
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Nov 20, 2022 19:05:49 GMT
It's not just England is it? Virgil van Dijk has just said he's going to wear it even if it means he gets booked. Numerous captains have said that they're going to wear it. So what will be the law he will potentially break to get booked Paul? Improper conduct I would imagine 🤷♂️
|
|
|
Post by Han Solo on Nov 20, 2022 19:06:18 GMT
It's not just England is it? Virgil van Dijk has just said he's going to wear it even if it means he gets booked. Numerous captains have said that they're going to wear it. So what will be the law he will potentially break to get booked Paul? I’d imagine he’s more likely to be hauled off by the police/army.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 20, 2022 19:06:53 GMT
I don’t know what anyone expected with the position of the Quataris, were they suddenly going to change? I do not agree with their view on same sex relationships, treatment of women or banning of ale, but it’s their country and their rules which were known from the get go. Blame the corrupt assholes who took the World Cup there in the first place as this is now a case of when in Rome do what the Romans do and the bitching about it now when it was known it would go like this is just seems pointless. If everyone feels as strongly as they do now, one presumes they felt this way when it was awarded which is why the only right thing to do morally was not to have gone. Oh, but money is involved and hence the morale high ground is now compromised, so their moans can’t have the same importance. I do not respect or agree with Quatar’s view on these points, but I respect their right to determine what goes on in their own country. But equally, Qatar knew what FIFA's rules on inclusivity were when they made their bid, maybe they shouldn't have in the first place. "Discriminatory offences, under The FA's ruling, can relate to ethnic origin, colour, race, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation, ability and disability." But Paul the vast majority of nations in the East have policies that the West would view as unethical or discriminatory. This imperialist idea that we can implement our laws and customs on others is just appalling. I know you're not saying that btw. Frankly, it's about time the World Cup was held in the Arab world but it should have been held by a footballing nation and Qatar had never previously qualified for a tournament. They shouldn't have been awarded the tournament on football grounds and not cultural. What about if it was held in say Egypt? Women and gays are still second class citizens as they are in Qatar. That's the culture. But who are we to say that Egypt shouldn't host a world cup?!
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 19:07:05 GMT
So what will be the law he will potentially break to get booked Paul? Improper conduct I would imagine 🤷♂️ What’s improper? Seems a tad homophobic (not aimed at you but FIFA if that’s what they sanctioned him for).
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Nov 20, 2022 19:09:58 GMT
Improper conduct I would imagine 🤷♂️ What’s improper? Seems a tad homophobic (not aimed at you but FIFA if that’s what they sanctioned him for). I would imagine for breaking the rules on political statements etc
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on Nov 20, 2022 19:10:49 GMT
So what will be the law he will potentially break to get booked Paul? Improper conduct I would imagine 🤷♂️ I suggest Fifa breach their own misconduct rule if they do. Discrimination A Participant shall not carry out any act of victimisation[1] or discrimination by reason of ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, religion or belief, gender, gender reassignment, sexual orientation disability, age, pregnancy, maternity, marital status or civil partnership unless otherwise permitted by law or the Rules and regulations of the FA (Rule E4).
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 20, 2022 19:11:31 GMT
Horrible spectacle isn't it. Are we going to end up with this sterile, cringe worthy, hypocritical performance of virtue signalling by "Western" nations during all future tournaments? I have been vehemently against the taking of the knee and over the last two years have posted on here numerous times, accusing the players of doing nothing more than virtue signalling. However this seems different to me, if they are prepared to protest with the threat of direct personal sanction hanging over them, then I don't think they can be accused of virtue signalling. I'd have a lot more respect (I don't currently have any) for their taking of the knee, if they don't bottle it now. But we shouldn't be adding additional logos and politicising in the first place Paul. This is THEIR country. As per my previous post, are we going to have this "our way of life is better than yours" insanity every time we have a tournament in a non Western country? God forbid if Egypt, Malaysia, Turkey or Indonesia ever hosted a tournament. Where was the protesting against Amazonian deforestation and community destruction during the 2014 World Cup? Can you see how ridiculous this could end up getting? Politics has no place in football.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 19:11:51 GMT
What’s improper? Seems a tad homophobic (not aimed at you but FIFA if that’s what they sanctioned him for). I would imagine for breaking the rules on political statements etc True but it’s intrinsically homophobic with what this stands for. The players should walk out of the tournament if it happens. It’s discriminatory.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 20, 2022 19:12:08 GMT
It's not just England is it? Virgil van Dijk has just said he's going to wear it even if it means he gets booked. Numerous captains have said that they're going to wear it. So what will be the law he will potentially break to get booked Paul? It is against FIFA rules for a player to wear a logo that hasn't been sanctioned Andy. Bear in mind, that England requested permission to do so from FIFA TWO years ago but have only finally received a reply today.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 19:12:59 GMT
I have been vehemently against the taking of the knee and over the last two years have posted on here numerous times, accusing the players of doing nothing more than virtue signalling. However this seems different to me, if they are prepared to protest with the threat of direct personal sanction hanging over them, then I don't think they can be accused of virtue signalling. I'd have a lot more respect (I don't currently have any) for their taking of the knee, if they don't bottle it now. But we shouldn't be adding additional logos and politicising in the first place Paul. This is THEIR country. As per my previous post, are we going to have this "our way of life is better than yours" insanity every time we have a tournament in a non Western tournament? God forbid if Egypt, Malaysia, Turkey or Indonesia ever hosted a tournament. Where was the protesting against Amazonian deforestation and community destruction during the 2014 World Cup? Can you see how ridiculous this could end up getting? Politics has no place in football. Virtue signalling = not wanting people of the same sex to be threatened with the death penalty for living their life. Grow the fuck up.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 20, 2022 19:14:54 GMT
But we shouldn't be adding additional logos and politicising in the first place Paul. This is THEIR country. As per my previous post, are we going to have this "our way of life is better than yours" insanity every time we have a tournament in a non Western tournament? God forbid if Egypt, Malaysia, Turkey or Indonesia ever hosted a tournament. Where was the protesting against Amazonian deforestation and community destruction during the 2014 World Cup? Can you see how ridiculous this could end up getting? Politics has no place in football. Virtue signalling = not wanting people of the same sex to be threatened with the death penalty for living their life. Grow the fuck up. You have no right to go to another country, criticise their culture and tell them how they should live. If you do, then you can have zero complaints with the consequences.
|
|
|
Post by toppercorner on Nov 20, 2022 19:16:08 GMT
I have been vehemently against the taking of the knee and over the last two years have posted on here numerous times, accusing the players of doing nothing more than virtue signalling. However this seems different to me, if they are prepared to protest with the threat of direct personal sanction hanging over them, then I don't think they can be accused of virtue signalling. I'd have a lot more respect (I don't currently have any) for their taking of the knee, if they don't bottle it now. But we shouldn't be adding additional logos and politicising in the first place Paul. This is THEIR country. As per my previous post, are we going to have this "our way of life is better than yours" insanity every time we have a tournament in a non Western tournament? God forbid if Egypt, Malaysia, Turkey or Indonesia ever hosted a tournament. Where was the protesting against Amazonian deforestation and community destruction during the 2014 World Cup? Can you see how ridiculous this could end up getting? Politics has no place in football. 7500 slaves died building stadiums for a month long football tournament, in a non-footballing nation. That alone should be reason enough for anyone to take a stand. It's 3x the number of dead of 9/11. Also, the domestic leagues have been stopped across all the big leagues because the host nation is too hot to play in, as per their original pitch, during the summer.
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on Nov 20, 2022 19:16:44 GMT
So what will be the law he will potentially break to get booked Paul? It is against FIFA rules for a player to wear a logo that hasn't been sanctioned Andy. Bear in mind, that England requested permission to do so from FIFA TWO years ago but have only finally received a reply today. Maybe but that's a fine for the FA. The laws of the game state a fixed list of offences which can result in a booking. The only one out of the list I can see could be used is. dissent by word or action
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Nov 20, 2022 19:17:28 GMT
The locals are rattled….that a money gesture?
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 20, 2022 19:20:01 GMT
But we shouldn't be adding additional logos and politicising in the first place Paul. This is THEIR country. As per my previous post, are we going to have this "our way of life is better than yours" insanity every time we have a tournament in a non Western tournament? God forbid if Egypt, Malaysia, Turkey or Indonesia ever hosted a tournament. Where was the protesting against Amazonian deforestation and community destruction during the 2014 World Cup? Can you see how ridiculous this could end up getting? Politics has no place in football. 7500 slaves died building stadiums for a month long football tournament, in a non-footballing nation. That alone should be reason enough for anyone to take a stand. It's 3x the number of dead of 9/11. Also, the domestic leagues have been stopped across all the big leagues because the host nation is too hot to play in, as per their original pitch, during the summer. And over 14,000 were killed in the War in the Donbass following the 2014 invasion from Russia/Pro Russian states. Did you boycott watching England's semi final v Croatia in Russia 2018?! Of course you didn't.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 20, 2022 19:21:02 GMT
I have been vehemently against the taking of the knee and over the last two years have posted on here numerous times, accusing the players of doing nothing more than virtue signalling. However this seems different to me, if they are prepared to protest with the threat of direct personal sanction hanging over them, then I don't think they can be accused of virtue signalling. I'd have a lot more respect (I don't currently have any) for their taking of the knee, if they don't bottle it now. But we shouldn't be adding additional logos and politicising in the first place Paul. This is THEIR country. As per my previous post, are we going to have this "our way of life is better than yours" insanity every time we have a tournament in a non Western country? God forbid if Egypt, Malaysia, Turkey or Indonesia ever hosted a tournament. Where was the protesting against Amazonian deforestation and community destruction during the 2014 World Cup? Can you see how ridiculous this could end up getting? Politics has no place in football. Politics is firmly a part of football Nick. The players themselves have chosen to take the knee for the last two years. Just last week, Infantino himself went to Indonesia and appealed for their to be a ceasefire in Ukraine for the duration of the World Cup. This is a shit show entirely of FIFA's making. They are massive on total inclusivity for all and yet they awarded the tournament to an Islamic nation.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 19:23:17 GMT
Virtue signalling = not wanting people of the same sex to be threatened with the death penalty for living their life. Grow the fuck up. You have no right to go to another country, criticise their culture and tell them how they should live. If you do, then you can have zero complaints with the consequences. There shouldn’t be anywhere in the world where it’s illegal to live a natural life. It’s wrong.
|
|
|
Post by toppercorner on Nov 20, 2022 19:23:19 GMT
7500 slaves died building stadiums for a month long football tournament, in a non-footballing nation. That alone should be reason enough for anyone to take a stand. It's 3x the number of dead of 9/11. Also, the domestic leagues have been stopped across all the big leagues because the host nation is too hot to play in, as per their original pitch, during the summer. And over 14,000 were killed in the War in the Donbass following the 2014 invasion from Russia/Pro Russian states. Did you boycott watching England's semi final v Croatia in Russia 2018?! Of course you didn't. i didn't watch any of that tournament actually, as i was in a place that for a few months was so remote it didn't have a tv or any means of watching it. i'd say a sporting tournament that was bid for by the host country, is vastly different to an invading army. It's a nonsensical argument.
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Nov 20, 2022 19:26:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 20, 2022 19:28:28 GMT
But we shouldn't be adding additional logos and politicising in the first place Paul. This is THEIR country. As per my previous post, are we going to have this "our way of life is better than yours" insanity every time we have a tournament in a non Western country? God forbid if Egypt, Malaysia, Turkey or Indonesia ever hosted a tournament. Where was the protesting against Amazonian deforestation and community destruction during the 2014 World Cup? Can you see how ridiculous this could end up getting? Politics has no place in football. Politics is firmly a part of football Nick. The players themselves have chosen to take the knee for the last two years. Just last week, Infantino himself went to Indonesia and appealed for their to be a ceasefire in Ukraine for the duration of the World Cup. This is a shit show entirely of UEFA's making. They are massive on total inclusivity for all and yet they awarded the tournament to an Islamic nation. Mate I have many reservations around Islamic laws and customs but the reality is, whether we agree with many of the religious principles or not, that makes up a big chunk of the world. Many conveniently forget that homophobia is a huge issue across Africa and indeed, the Caribbean. You only have to listen to some of the local music to see what Island nations like Jamaica and Trinidad think of gays. Are we going to start boycotting cricket tours there? It's the world cup and its about giving different parts of the planet a chance to host. However different their way of life is to ours, one of the great beauties is it gives all kinds of different nations their moment in the limelight. I agree with you, Qatar shouldn't have been awarded the tournament - but on footballing grounds and not cultural.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 20, 2022 19:29:30 GMT
You have no right to go to another country, criticise their culture and tell them how they should live. If you do, then you can have zero complaints with the consequences. There shouldn’t be anywhere in the world where it’s illegal to live a natural life. It’s wrong. Do you think England should boycott cricket tours to the West Indies where there is widespread intolerance towards being gay?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 20, 2022 19:30:39 GMT
There shouldn’t be anywhere in the world where it’s illegal to live a natural life. It’s wrong. Do you think England should boycott cricket tours to the West Indies where there is widespread intolerance towards being gay? If they have laws where the death penalty is invoked for being gay then yes. Nowhere should have such laws.
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 20, 2022 19:31:39 GMT
Do you think England should boycott cricket tours to the West Indies where there is widespread intolerance towards being gay? If they have laws where the death penalty is invoked for being gay then yes. Nowhere should have such laws. We better cancel the test series in Pakistan this winter while we're at it then Bayern!!
|
|
|
Post by sportsman on Nov 20, 2022 19:33:07 GMT
Don't know how long the BBC whatever it was went on for as like I said I turned over at 3.10 to watch only fools and horses, but I'd love to see the viewing figures for that bollocks. I'd guess it's the lowest for any world cup game broadcast on tele.
I have another feeling that if this carries on this tournament is going get really messy, silly, shitter than it looks like it's going be anyway, and a big bloody problem in some way.
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 20, 2022 19:33:08 GMT
Are foreign people who enter the U.K. expected to respect the law of the land? If so the same applies to Qatar doesn’t it? Not agreeing with it is one thing but poncing about on a soapbox and whittering on about the beliefs that the western world holds is, by definition, discrimination itself. Bordering on xenophobia.to be honest. Countries have been given the chance to boycott as has happened throughout history but no just keep saying things they think people want to hear. Words are meaningless without action. The Arabic countries won’t change their beliefs at the drop of a hat and they’re not enforcing it on our country so if people don’t want to go then don’t go and if people don’t want to watch it don’t watch it.
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on Nov 20, 2022 19:33:54 GMT
But we shouldn't be adding additional logos and politicising in the first place Paul. This is THEIR country. As per my previous post, are we going to have this "our way of life is better than yours" insanity every time we have a tournament in a non Western country? God forbid if Egypt, Malaysia, Turkey or Indonesia ever hosted a tournament. Where was the protesting against Amazonian deforestation and community destruction during the 2014 World Cup? Can you see how ridiculous this could end up getting? Politics has no place in football. Politics is firmly a part of football Nick. The players themselves have chosen to take the knee for the last two years. Just last week, Infantino himself went to Indonesia and appealed for their to be a ceasefire in Ukraine for the duration of the World Cup. This is a shit show entirely of FIFA's making. They are massive on total inclusivity for all and yet they awarded the tournament to an Islamic nation. So countries have been forced to play behind closed doors for discrimination and fined by the governing body. Teams have walked off the pitch in support of discrimination of team mates. But now the governing body is threatening to sanction a player for an anti discrimination message. Plot well and truly lost.
|
|
|
Post by bingbang on Nov 20, 2022 19:34:42 GMT
I really hope England lose every game so come home early. The only ones who seem to be enjoying it are the vast number of media representatives. For us at home there is just no interest. I've just been the pub watch first game nobody was watching it. Get the whole English contingent home and we can just forget about this awful, awful world cup.
|
|
|
Post by Han Solo on Nov 20, 2022 19:40:52 GMT
You have no right to go to another country, criticise their culture and tell them how they should live. If you do, then you can have zero complaints with the consequences. There shouldn’t be anywhere in the world where it’s illegal to live a natural life. It’s wrong. You’re right. I guess the issue though is in relation to what there religion says is a natural life. Should we be respectful of that? I’d say yes we should as we certainly are in the U.k. on the whole. I certainly don’t agree with there strict beliefs and they are morally wrong but UEFA knew this when they awarded Qatar the world cup. Western society is very much more understanding of change where’s the Middle East clearly isn’t. This should have been nipped in the bud early on by Qatar not getting it. Now it’s here these issues you would have thought would be known before we flew out. I’d either fly home now or just get on with it. No middle ground
|
|