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Post by questionable on Nov 25, 2021 14:36:26 GMT
This was inevitable not if but when. From what I understand we pay the French millions of pounds to police the crossing points but we’re still getting records of people trying to cross and a French politician has the gonads to point the finger at us. As it stands we pay the French nothing. The UK taxpayer is to hand over a further €62.7m (£55m) to France to fund another clampdown on small-boat crossings of the Channel, the Home Office has revealed. The home secretary, Priti Patel, agreed to pay the sum as part of a deal reached with the French interior minister, Gérald Darmanin, on Tuesday. Another report claims we’ve paid in the region of £140,000,000 over the last 3 years so I’d kinda say we are paying them.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 25, 2021 14:41:56 GMT
As it stands we pay the French nothing. The UK taxpayer is to hand over a further €62.7m (£55m) to France to fund another clampdown on small-boat crossings of the Channel, the Home Office has revealed. The home secretary, Priti Patel, agreed to pay the sum as part of a deal reached with the French interior minister, Gérald Darmanin, on Tuesday. Another report claims we’ve paid in the region of £140,000,000 over the last 3 years so I’d kinda say we are paying them. It's not the figures that are in question, I believe the French were saying we hadn't actually stumped up the cash. Whether it's been confirmed we have now I'm not sure?
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2021 15:00:51 GMT
Just goes to show how much more attractive the UK is to immigrants, despite austerity. Most of that immigration is from the EU, which EU membership could not prevent because of freedom of movement, mainly from Eastern Europe. The rest is largely people coming to work in low paid jobs like the health service which we desperately need. I welcome immigrants, we were all immigrants once if you go back far enough. And yet for most people controlling immigration was a massive driver behind voting to Leave the EU ![(lol)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/lvpvZ64EmrkLcuVniUmo.gif) Five years on and the figures are higher than they were five years before the vote! Just shows what a lot of nonsense that was! Hang on, I thought massive job vacancies were a good sign? Likewise, I don't have a particular problem with immigration and agree that we're all essentially a mix of Germans/Danes/Dutch/Italians/French etc if you think about it. People say migrants are a drain on society and our infrastructure but most analyses show that they are net contributors to the economy, which suggests it's what the government then decides to do with that net contribution that is more of the problem, not necessarily the migrants themselves. At least we agree on immigration. If people voted leave for the "wrong reason", that suits me. Massive job vacancies is good for my young relatives graduating from Oxford and Durham in the next couple of years. Good for low paid. Good for Britain in the long term as it will drive automation, robotics, and more labour efficient business and improve our relatively poor productivity compared with a lot of countries. The better off people are the more government will raise in taxes for welfare etc. Personally I expect immigration will continue at a high level. Aside from needing people in NHS etc., hospitality, etc. which cannot be automated, we also need scientist, researchers, engineers, etc. The government makes announcements like £98 billion investment in rail, green technology, etc but we don't have enough people to deliver it. I expect immigration from Hong Kong into London financial services, and a steady flow of craftsmen from Eastern Europe despite Brexit. The government will be forced to issue temporary visas for more occupations in short supply like drivers and butchers, and reduce the threshold of terms for settlement. In the long term I expect higher immigration from India and other countries further east. I think the refugee issue will get worse not better driven by climate change as well as political unrest. Huge populations in island countries will be driven out by rising sea level, and bad weather.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 25, 2021 15:14:17 GMT
The UK taxpayer is to hand over a further €62.7m (£55m) to France to fund another clampdown on small-boat crossings of the Channel, the Home Office has revealed. The home secretary, Priti Patel, agreed to pay the sum as part of a deal reached with the French interior minister, Gérald Darmanin, on Tuesday. Another report claims we’ve paid in the region of £140,000,000 over the last 3 years so I’d kinda say we are paying them. It's not the figures that are in question, I believe the French were saying we hadn't actually stumped up the cash. Whether it's been confirmed we have now I'm not sure? Was it a promise from the Tories by any chance?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2021 15:35:24 GMT
And yet for most people controlling immigration was a massive driver behind voting to Leave the EU ![(lol)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/lvpvZ64EmrkLcuVniUmo.gif) Five years on and the figures are higher than they were five years before the vote! Just shows what a lot of nonsense that was! Hang on, I thought massive job vacancies were a good sign? Likewise, I don't have a particular problem with immigration and agree that we're all essentially a mix of Germans/Danes/Dutch/Italians/French etc if you think about it. People say migrants are a drain on society and our infrastructure but most analyses show that they are net contributors to the economy, which suggests it's what the government then decides to do with that net contribution that is more of the problem, not necessarily the migrants themselves. At least we agree on immigration. If people voted leave for the "wrong reason", that suits me. Massive job vacancies is good for my young relatives graduating from Oxford and Durham in the next couple of years. Good for low paid. Good for Britain in the long term as it will drive automation, robotics, and more labour efficient business and improve our relatively poor productivity compared with a lot of countries. The better off people are the more government will raise in taxes for welfare etc. Personally I expect immigration will continue at a high level. Aside from needing people in NHS etc., hospitality, etc. which cannot be automated, we also need scientist, researchers, engineers, etc. The government makes announcements like £98 billion investment in rail, green technology, etc but we don't have enough people to deliver it. I expect immigration from Hong Kong into London financial services, and a steady flow of craftsmen from Eastern Europe despite Brexit. The government will be forced to issue temporary visas for more occupations in short supply like drivers and butchers, and reduce the threshold of terms for settlement. In the long term I expect higher immigration from India and other countries further east. I think the refugee issue will get worse not better driven by climate change as well as political unrest. Huge populations in island countries will be driven out by rising sea level, and bad weather. I didn't say it was the "wrong reason" just that it was a primary driver of that vote, and yet, here we are, five years on despite all the promises and tough talk, where nothing has been done to reduce net migration levels, almost as if it was a load of dog whistle nonsense in the first place On the issue of job vacancies, we're getting off subject and I'll leave it for others to get back to immigration. I'll just say that when you were Captain of Industry and you called in your heads of departments to find out why output had fallen away, product wasn't being made, waiting times had gone through the roof, customers were going elsewhere and profits were down, and your Head of HR said that out of a workforce of 1200, there were 200 posts unfilled, you probably wouldn't have responded with "Excellent, great news for those looking for a job, carry on..."
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Post by heworksardtho on Nov 25, 2021 16:17:04 GMT
They don't survive on 39.00 a week so they have got to have other sources of income otherwise why come ? The mayor of calais blamed uk benefits for the attraction so i guess he knows more about it than either of us but i guess i'm closer to the truth than you are .
They're allowed to work after 12 months, in Germany it's 3 and in France it's 6. The get housed often in purpose built facilities, often B&B's or hotels. They don't get child benefits although their allowance goes up slightly if part of a family (as it also does in France) They have access to medical care as they do in France, there is fundamental difference between the two countries in terms of what they receive. It doesn't take long to search........ I read they want to house them In old army barracks and also Albania so they can be processed , why not do that in France
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2021 16:33:13 GMT
At least we agree on immigration. If people voted leave for the "wrong reason", that suits me. Massive job vacancies is good for my young relatives graduating from Oxford and Durham in the next couple of years. Good for low paid. Good for Britain in the long term as it will drive automation, robotics, and more labour efficient business and improve our relatively poor productivity compared with a lot of countries. The better off people are the more government will raise in taxes for welfare etc. Personally I expect immigration will continue at a high level. Aside from needing people in NHS etc., hospitality, etc. which cannot be automated, we also need scientist, researchers, engineers, etc. The government makes announcements like £98 billion investment in rail, green technology, etc but we don't have enough people to deliver it. I expect immigration from Hong Kong into London financial services, and a steady flow of craftsmen from Eastern Europe despite Brexit. The government will be forced to issue temporary visas for more occupations in short supply like drivers and butchers, and reduce the threshold of terms for settlement. In the long term I expect higher immigration from India and other countries further east. I think the refugee issue will get worse not better driven by climate change as well as political unrest. Huge populations in island countries will be driven out by rising sea level, and bad weather. I didn't say it was the "wrong reason" just that it was a primary driver of that vote, and yet, here we are, five years on despite all the promises and tough talk, where nothing has been done to reduce net migration levels, almost as if it was a load of dog whistle nonsense in the first place On the issue of job vacancies, we're getting off subject and I'll leave it for others to get back to immigration. I'll just say that when you were Captain of Industry and you called in your heads of departments to find out why output had fallen away, product wasn't being made, waiting times had gone through the roof, customers were going elsewhere and profits were down, and your Head of HR said that out of a workforce of 1200, there were 200 posts unfilled, you probably wouldn't have responded with "Excellent, great news for those looking for a job, carry on..." Most of my post post was my views on immigration. Most of your post was like a typical Guardian or Independant anti Brexit rant about shortage of staff. There is a serious shortage of lorry drivers who have been abused by their employers for years and when the government triggered IR35 driven them away. The other labour shortages are in those businesses who have exploited low pay for years, like the NHS, not high paid jobs like the steel industry. If you know of any high pay businesses with staff shortages, please give examples. The only serious commodity shortage has been fuel, induced by the anti Brexit media causing panic buying. The anti Brexit media have also tried to induce panic on Christmas presents, Christmas trees, turkeys, and anything else they can think of, even the record refugee crossings is being blamed on Brexit! If I was in government I would not know what to do about refugees, but we are duty bound to offer refuge. I do think we are right to regulate immigration and admit those people who can contribute to our society, whether it is a temporary visa to drive a lorry or work in a slaughter house, or permanently on the needed jobs list which I understand the government have recently extended to more jobs. I am happy for people to come from other countries to do jobs we cannot fill with UK citizens, but against allowing anyone in from the EU to take jobs our own citizens want and need. If that is xenophobia then I am guilty, but I don't think it is.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 25, 2021 17:39:42 GMT
I didn't say it was the "wrong reason" just that it was a primary driver of that vote, and yet, here we are, five years on despite all the promises and tough talk, where nothing has been done to reduce net migration levels, almost as if it was a load of dog whistle nonsense in the first place On the issue of job vacancies, we're getting off subject and I'll leave it for others to get back to immigration. I'll just say that when you were Captain of Industry and you called in your heads of departments to find out why output had fallen away, product wasn't being made, waiting times had gone through the roof, customers were going elsewhere and profits were down, and your Head of HR said that out of a workforce of 1200, there were 200 posts unfilled, you probably wouldn't have responded with "Excellent, great news for those looking for a job, carry on..." Most of my post post was my views on immigration. Most of your post was like a typical Guardian or Independant anti Brexit rant about shortage of staff. There is a serious shortage of lorry drivers who have been abused by their employers for years and when the government triggered IR35 driven them away. The other labour shortages are in those businesses who have exploited low pay for years, like the NHS, not high paid jobs like the steel industry. If you know of any high pay businesses with staff shortages, please give examples. The only serious commodity shortage has been fuel, induced by the anti Brexit media causing panic buying. The anti Brexit media have also tried to induce panic on Christmas presents, Christmas trees, turkeys, and anything else they can think of, even the record refugee crossings is being blamed on Brexit! If I was in government I would not know what to do about refugees, but we are duty bound to offer refuge. I do think we are right to regulate immigration and admit those people who can contribute to our society, whether it is a temporary visa to drive a lorry or work in a slaughter house, or permanently on the needed jobs list which I understand the government have recently extended to more jobs. I am happy for people to come from other countries to do jobs we cannot fill with UK citizens, but against allowing anyone in from the EU to take jobs our own citizens want and need. If that is xenophobia then I am guilty, but I don't think it is. Software developers......
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2021 19:34:19 GMT
Doctors.
50,191 shortfall according to the BMA as of Sept 2021.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2021 19:54:39 GMT
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Post by heworksardtho on Nov 25, 2021 19:56:39 GMT
Doctors. 50,191 shortfall according to the BMA as of Sept 2021. You got me there. But one of the reasons for shortages of doctors and dentists etc. is they are on such high pay they only need to work part time. Had a crown cost over £270 , at least Dick Turpin wore a mask when he robbed ppl
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 25, 2021 20:13:13 GMT
Hit the nail on the head there mate
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2021 20:13:17 GMT
Most of my post post was my views on immigration. Most of your post was like a typical Guardian or Independant anti Brexit rant about shortage of staff. There is a serious shortage of lorry drivers who have been abused by their employers for years and when the government triggered IR35 driven them away. The other labour shortages are in those businesses who have exploited low pay for years, like the NHS, not high paid jobs like the steel industry. If you know of any high pay businesses with staff shortages, please give examples. The only serious commodity shortage has been fuel, induced by the anti Brexit media causing panic buying. The anti Brexit media have also tried to induce panic on Christmas presents, Christmas trees, turkeys, and anything else they can think of, even the record refugee crossings is being blamed on Brexit! If I was in government I would not know what to do about refugees, but we are duty bound to offer refuge. I do think we are right to regulate immigration and admit those people who can contribute to our society, whether it is a temporary visa to drive a lorry or work in a slaughter house, or permanently on the needed jobs list which I understand the government have recently extended to more jobs. I am happy for people to come from other countries to do jobs we cannot fill with UK citizens, but against allowing anyone in from the EU to take jobs our own citizens want and need. If that is xenophobia then I am guilty, but I don't think it is. Software developers...... I think we are talking about shortages due to people leaving due to Brexit, not general shortages in high skilled and qualified jobs that we have been short of for years. In the case of doctors mentioned by Rwb I am aware that a number of doctors have left the country due to a combination of the pandemic and Brexit.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2021 21:22:25 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 25, 2021 21:46:35 GMT
It is. But if we pay HGV drivers say £400 a day we would still have a shortage as they would only work 3 or 4 days a week like doctors.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 25, 2021 21:52:23 GMT
🤔🤔🤔
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2021 21:53:17 GMT
So to summarise your position so far, Coke:
Large numbers of job vacancies and staff shortages post Brexit are a good thing, not least because they will drive wages up.
A high wage, high skill workforce post Brexit isn't necessarily a good thing because it will lead to staff shortages.
Hmmmm!
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 25, 2021 21:57:09 GMT
It is. But if we pay HGV drivers say £400 a day we would still have a shortage as they would only work 3 or 4 days a week like doctors. My sister's a Dental Therapist. Has only ever worked 3 days per week since qualifying, any more puts her in the 50% tax bracket so she doesn't bother.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2021 22:05:05 GMT
It is. But if we pay HGV drivers say £400 a day we would still have a shortage as they would only work 3 or 4 days a week like doctors. My sister's a Dental Therapist. Has only ever worked 3 days per week since qualifying, any more puts her in the 50% tax bracket so she doesn't bother. That's some seriously well-paid dental therapy since she'd need to earn over £150,000 a year to enter the 45% additional rate tax bracket. I take it she realises that if she tips into the higher rate tax bracket she'll only pay 40% on that portion of her salary over £50k, not the entirety of her salary?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 25, 2021 22:10:33 GMT
My sister's a Dental Therapist. Has only ever worked 3 days per week since qualifying, any more puts her in the 50% tax bracket so she doesn't bother. That's some seriously well-paid dental therapy since she'd need to earn over £150,000 a year to enter the 45% additional rate tax bracket. I take it she realises that if she tips into the higher rate tax bracket she'll only pay 40% on that portion of her salary over £50k, not the entirety of her salary? She gets that, earns enough and doesn't want the hassle. My GP is exactly the same. Fair play to them but I'd argue until the cost of their training is repaid then there ought to be a limit on this.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 25, 2021 22:15:14 GMT
That's some seriously well-paid dental therapy since she'd need to earn over £150,000 a year to enter the 45% additional rate tax bracket. I take it she realises that if she tips into the higher rate tax bracket she'll only pay 40% on that portion of her salary over £50k, not the entirety of her salary? She gets that, earns enough and doesn't want the hassle. My GP is exactly the same. Fair play to them but I'd argue until the cost of their training is repaid then there ought to be a limit on this. I see what you're saying but if it's that well paid a job and you can live comfortably by doing it half a week effectively, I can't see why such an attractive arrangement would create shortages. I think most people would be crying out for such a lifestyle and there'd be a queue of people wanting to do it!
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 25, 2021 22:19:57 GMT
She gets that, earns enough and doesn't want the hassle. My GP is exactly the same. Fair play to them but I'd argue until the cost of their training is repaid then there ought to be a limit on this. I see what you're saying but if it's that well paid a job and you can live comfortably by doing it half a week effectively, I can't see why such an attractive arrangement would create shortages. I think most people would be crying out for such a lifestyle and there'd be a queue of people wanting to do it! I kick myself for not being wired up that way. To be fair to her she works for a private practice and has worked through all but 6 weeks of the pandemic I think. The PPE she has been using makes it look like she's conducting an alien autopsy! My NHS dental appointments have been cancelled umpteen times. I've had one regular checkup over the past 2.5 years I think.
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Post by foster on Nov 25, 2021 22:21:28 GMT
Are Mrcoke and BJR the same person?
Very similar use of terminology and alternating posting times.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 25, 2021 22:23:43 GMT
Are Mrcoke and BJR the same person? Very similar use of terminology and alternating posting times. No. That's thehartshillbadger.
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Post by foster on Nov 25, 2021 22:25:05 GMT
Are Mrcoke and BJR the same person? Very similar use of terminology and alternating posting times. No. That's thehartshillbadger. Oh. I thought Hartshill was the same as Eggybread.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Nov 25, 2021 22:27:57 GMT
No. That's thehartshillbadger. Oh. I thought Hartshill was the same as Eggybread. Anything mammal related. Nothing vaguely reptilian.
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Post by foster on Nov 25, 2021 22:31:17 GMT
So to summarise your position so far: Large numbers of job vacancies and staff shortages post Brexit are a good thing, not least because they will drive wages up. A high wage, high skill workforce post Brexit isn't necessarily a good thing because it will lead to staff shortages. Hmmmm! Hokey Cokey is basically just pro whatever makes the UK sound good. He'll just post random articles to support his point of view and ignore those that don't. Be careful to question him though...He might refer to a previous post of his (on page what-the-fuck ever) or bore you to death with anecdotes about his earlier life and work experience.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 26, 2021 0:27:45 GMT
So to summarise your position so far, Coke: Large numbers of job vacancies and staff shortages post Brexit are a good thing, not least because they will drive wages up. A high wage, high skill workforce post Brexit isn't necessarily a good thing because it will lead to staff shortages. Hmmmm! I suspect you are being deliberate obtuse to be vexatious. Large numbers of job vacancies and staff shortages post Brexit are a good thing, not least because they will drive wages up. Too high wages isn't necessarily a good thing because it will lead to people working shorter hours and therefore staff shortages as is happening in the medical profession. It has no relevance to Brexit. A GPs full-time working week comprises eight sessions, which equates to four days. Many doctors only work 3 days per week. www.cv-library.co.uk/salary-guide/average-doctor-salarywww.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/doctors/roles-doctors/general-practice-gp/working-lifewww.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/dental-team/roles-dental-team/dentist/pay-dentistsIt takes a great deal of time and cost to train medical staff, many of whom then only work for the NHS for a few years and then go into private practice or emigrate. A private dentist near to where I live used to be a trainer in a York hospital teaching trainee dentists. She left and set up a private practice in my town and now only takes private patients and charges typically £60 every time you sit in the chair for a check-up, X ray, descale, filling, etc. and an awful lot more for more other specialist dental work. The best ever years for the NHS were undoubtedly the Blair years when huge amounts of money were poured into the NHS. A lot of this money did not go into services and buildings but a large part went into pay. Some of that was justifiable, low paid nurses were better off and junior doctors ceased working ridiculously long hours. But a lot went to senior doctors, GPs, specialists, who started earning huge amounts and stopped carrying out many duties like callouts and taking out of hours calls, etc. The medical profession have generally had it a lot rougher since 2008 financial crisis.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 26, 2021 6:08:04 GMT
Why is the UK seen as better than France that they are prepared to risk their lives for France is hardly the third world Language, strong communities particularly in big cities like London, Birmingham and Manchester offering more support/opportunities. Plus you don’t hear about the tens of thousands that decide to stay in France or not even get as far as that……. I’d question “strong communities” in the big cities right now. The big cities aren’t the safest places at the moment. Stabbings on a daily basis. Organised crime, exploitation etc That said i do think we’re more welcoming than most and certainly more multi cultural which makes us a far more accepting place than eastern europe for example. I do think that the biggest pull is housing though particularly for families. From experience there’s an expectency (which may be wrong) that they will be housed when they arrive.
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Post by heworksardtho on Nov 26, 2021 6:20:49 GMT
U.K. troops to patrol french beaches , whatever next
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