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Post by mickstupp on May 28, 2022 19:04:14 GMT
Playing a centre half at right back is stupid. Playing your best centre half at right back is really stupid. Not allowing him to showcase his full ability was really stupid. If you can’t see that then there’s no hope. Breaking a club record for clean sheets was ridiculously stupid It would have been more if Collins had played centre back though, instead of 15 yards to his right. Instead of 23 clean sheets it would have been 24 at least and meant a guaranteed transfer to Real Madrid for £50m. I think that’s his theory.
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Collins
May 28, 2022 19:14:39 GMT
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 28, 2022 19:14:39 GMT
Playing a centre half at right back is stupid. Playing your best centre half at right back is really stupid. Not allowing him to showcase his full ability was really stupid. If you can’t see that then there’s no hope. Breaking a club record for clean sheets was ridiculously stupid I’d be far more impressed if we broke some records for scoring goals.
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Collins
May 28, 2022 19:20:39 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2022 19:20:39 GMT
Playing a centre half at right back is stupid. Playing your best centre half at right back is really stupid. Not allowing him to showcase his full ability was really stupid. If you can’t see that then there’s no hope. How much is Collins worth on Football Manager? Why do people poo poo it? You do realise that clubs use it? And in the case specifically on this thread it is spot on. Amazing how that’s all quiet 😂
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Collins
May 28, 2022 19:21:25 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2022 19:21:25 GMT
Breaking a club record for clean sheets was ridiculously stupid It would have been more if Collins had played centre back though, instead of 15 yards to his right. Instead of 23 clean sheets it would have been 24 at least and meant a guaranteed transfer to Real Madrid for £50m. I think that’s his theory. You make it sound like there’s not a massive difference between playing the two positions. It’s laughable.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2022 19:22:18 GMT
Breaking a club record for clean sheets was ridiculously stupid It would have been more if Collins had played centre back though, instead of 15 yards to his right. Instead of 23 clean sheets it would have been 24 at least and meant a guaranteed transfer to Real Madrid for £50m. I think that’s his theory. We'll regret that for ever When I started reading this I thought you were serious 😁
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Post by independent on May 28, 2022 19:24:34 GMT
Didn't he play RF for Burnley?
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Collins
May 28, 2022 20:12:47 GMT
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Post by foxysgloves on May 28, 2022 20:12:47 GMT
You know this how? Or are you making shit up? I think I know the answer. making shit up.. why did scholes go.. mon getting too involved in the money side of things.. he’s even said he likes that side of things.. isn’t a football manager meant too concentrate on winning football matches.. no.. but yeah am speaking shit.. brrrrrrr How do I even understand that let alone respond!?
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Collins
May 28, 2022 20:15:35 GMT
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Post by theonlooker on May 28, 2022 20:15:35 GMT
Didn't he play RF for Burnley? He played for Preston mate.
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Post by mickstupp on May 28, 2022 20:35:52 GMT
How much is Collins worth on Football Manager? Why do people poo poo it? You do realise that clubs use it? And in the case specifically on this thread it is spot on. Amazing how that’s all quiet 😂 How is it spot on? You’re comparing a real life, multi million pound business transaction with a computer game and making an arse out of yourself.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2022 20:38:51 GMT
Why do people poo poo it? You do realise that clubs use it? And in the case specifically on this thread it is spot on. Amazing how that’s all quiet 😂 How is it spot on? You’re comparing a real life, multi million pound business transaction with a computer game and making an arse out of yourself. Look at the links re sell on fees. Werrington is wrong. The game is used by football clubs too. Why don’t you realise and know this 😂😂😂 they use said game for scouting in the multi pound business. You surely know that?
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Post by lordb on May 28, 2022 20:41:20 GMT
Why do people poo poo it? You do realise that clubs use it? And in the case specifically on this thread it is spot on. Amazing how that’s all quiet 😂 How is it spot on? You’re comparing a real life, multi million pound business transaction with a computer game and making an arse out of yourself. Love Football Manager it's a great game, the effort they go to to be accurate especially with player ratings is fantastic... But it's just a game, the way transfers and contracts actually are made bear little resemblance I've just got Stoke promoted Football manager 2019 with Vokes scoring 30 goals I t s n o t r e a l
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Collins
May 28, 2022 20:43:30 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2022 20:43:30 GMT
How is it spot on? You’re comparing a real life, multi million pound business transaction with a computer game and making an arse out of yourself. Love Football Manager it's a great game, the effort they go to to be accurate especially with player ratings is fantastic... But it's just a game, the way transfers and contracts actually are made bear little resemblance I've just got Stoke promoted Football manager 2019 with Vokes scoring 30 goals I t s n o t r e a l Have you not read the links about the sell on fees? And you do realise clubs use the game for scouting? They wouldn’t have sell on fees as % of the whole fees if it wasn’t a thing in real life. And that’s because it is a thing in real life. How is this even a debate. All 3 of you are so wrong it’s untrue 😂
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Collins
May 28, 2022 20:44:01 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2022 20:44:01 GMT
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Collins
May 28, 2022 20:44:13 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2022 20:44:13 GMT
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Collins
May 28, 2022 21:04:27 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 28, 2022 21:04:27 GMT
Still not actually addressing the sell on fee aspect then. 😂😂
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Post by independent on May 28, 2022 21:53:59 GMT
It is called a sell on fee not a % of profit made fee.
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Collins
May 28, 2022 23:27:27 GMT
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on May 28, 2022 23:27:27 GMT
How is it spot on? You’re comparing a real life, multi million pound business transaction with a computer game and making an arse out of yourself. Love Football Manager it's a great game, the effort they go to to be accurate especially with player ratings is fantastic... But it's just a game, the way transfers and contracts actually are made bear little resemblance I've just got Stoke promoted Football manager 2019 with Vokes scoring 30 goals I t s n o t r e a l Some professional clubs use the extensive database that's provided as a part of Football Manager for scouting and have done for a few years now. www.pcgamer.com/how-real-life-teams-are-using-football-manager-to-target-their-next-star-player/
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2022 0:37:23 GMT
To be fair, and I'm a fan of MON. We sold Collins and never missed him due to the fact that he never really featured for us in his best position. He should have been a centre half regular for us while he was here.
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Post by theonlooker on May 29, 2022 6:26:32 GMT
The database in Football Manager is bigger than what the end user sees. There is more data behind it that isn't exposed. The two brothers that formed the coding company behind it, Sports Interactive are Paul and Oliver Collyer. Both huge Everton fans from Shropshire. Many years ago they gave their database to Everton and David Moyes actually used some of the data from it with his scouting team. Nowadays the database is licensed out to a number of professional football clubs. The person that runs the company now is Miles Jacobson, a big Watford fan. He has developed the company to this day in such a way that they have internal talks and q and a sessions with professional football people from managers to sports scientists etc who go into the company offices and talk them through how things work in the game. Examples of this recently are Paul Clement and Alex Neil. Both have done talks with the staff among many more. From the information gathered they implement it into the game as best as they can - from things like how transfers really work to training modules and the financial side of things etc. Yes, it's a computer game and you can't hang your hat on that Colombian regen banging in 30 a season, although FullerMagic has probably heard of him... However the mechanics behind it are rock solid and as close to reality as you'll get. As already said, a LOT of professional clubs and people use the game. The LMA who do training courses for managers actually use parts of the game for modules in the course. People that mock it haven't really got a clue what they are talking about. I'll make a prediction now. They teamed up with a stats company called SISports a while ago and implemented xG into the game, however it is calculated slightly differently than the real life xG as Jacobson wasn't happy with how the real life stats people calculate it. I wouldn't be surprised if that crosses over into real life and they change the way xG is used.
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Post by lordb on May 29, 2022 8:33:40 GMT
Love Football Manager it's a great game, the effort they go to to be accurate especially with player ratings is fantastic... But it's just a game, the way transfers and contracts actually are made bear little resemblance I've just got Stoke promoted Football manager 2019 with Vokes scoring 30 goals I t s n o t r e a l Some professional clubs use the extensive database that's provided as a part of Football Manager for scouting and have done for a few years now. www.pcgamer.com/how-real-life-teams-are-using-football-manager-to-target-their-next-star-player/I know they do and have done for years none the less the idea that transfers are anywhere near as simple as the game is childish in the extreme
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Collins
May 29, 2022 9:01:22 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2022 9:01:22 GMT
I know they do and have done for years none the less the idea that transfers are anywhere near as simple as the game is childish in the extreme No one has said that. Literally said that they have sell on fees that are from a whole of a transfer fee. Backed that up with real life examples. And with how FIFA do it. Again they wouldn’t have that option if you couldn’t do it real life. It was to counter one notion, Werrington saying sell ons are only from above what you sell them as. You haven’t gone anywhere near that point bar this childish response about “it’s just a game”.
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Post by scfc75 on May 29, 2022 9:27:43 GMT
I know they do and have done for years none the less the idea that transfers are anywhere near as simple as the game is childish in the extreme No one has said that. Literally said that they have sell on fees that are from a whole of a transfer fee. Backed that up with real life examples. And with how FIFA do it. Again they wouldn’t have that option if you couldn’t do it real life. It was to counter one notion, Werrington saying sell ons are only from above what you sell them as. You haven’t gone anywhere near that point bar this childish response about “it’s just a game”. Surely clubs can agree what the hell they like when contracting for a transfer. % of total fee. % over a certain amount. Flat fee. Combination of the above. As long as all parties agree and it’s in writing, I’d imagine anything is possible. I’d suggest the most likely term is % over a certain amount (% of profit) but that doesn’t mean that other methods can’t be or aren’t used.
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Collins
May 29, 2022 10:03:12 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2022 10:03:12 GMT
No one has said that. Literally said that they have sell on fees that are from a whole of a transfer fee. Backed that up with real life examples. And with how FIFA do it. Again they wouldn’t have that option if you couldn’t do it real life. It was to counter one notion, Werrington saying sell ons are only from above what you sell them as. You haven’t gone anywhere near that point bar this childish response about “it’s just a game”. Surely clubs can agree what the hell they like when contracting for a transfer. % of total fee. % over a certain amount. Flat fee. Combination of the above. As long as all parties agree and it’s in writing, I’d imagine anything is possible. I’d suggest the most likely term is % over a certain amount (% of profit) but that doesn’t mean that other methods can’t be or aren’t used. They can and that’s what I’ve said.
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Post by tachyon on May 29, 2022 10:06:16 GMT
They teamed up with a stats company called SISports a while ago and implemented xG into the game, however it is calculated slightly differently than the real life xG as Jacobson wasn't happy with how the real life stats people calculate it. I wouldn't be surprised if that crosses over into real life and they change the way xG is used. FM borrowed the xG concept from football analytics. They tweaked it to enhance the game's playability. The direction of travel is analytics to FM. It won't ever be the other way around :-)
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Post by xchpotter on May 29, 2022 10:07:14 GMT
As and when he leaves Burnley I wish him all the best and hope he ends up at a club that sees him develop into a top centre half. It’s just Sod’s law that the one time we get a proper, bonafide product from youth development we aren’t in a competitive position to keep them and see that progression through with us; similarities with Steve Bould scenario. Anyway, all the best to the lad and hoping our transfer team exercised due diligence and competence in whatever was negotiated as a sell on clause.
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Collins
May 29, 2022 10:11:22 GMT
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maine likes this
Post by bayernoatcake on May 29, 2022 10:11:22 GMT
As and when he leaves Burnley I wish him all the best and hope he ends up at a club that sees him develop into a top centre half. It’s just Sod’s law that the one time we get a proper, bonafide product from youth development we aren’t in a competitive position to keep them and see that progression through with us; similarities with Steve Bould scenario. Anyway, all the best to the lad and hoping our transfer team exercised due diligence and competence in whatever was negotiated as a sell on clause. It is annoying but I don’t think he was handled well at aol in the first team. I thought Jones may have cracked when he made him captain. I thought the lightbulb may have switched on. He should have been a regular then and captain full time soon after. Sadly Jones was Jones and MON fucked him around playing him at right back.
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 29, 2022 10:34:40 GMT
Yeah that’s right. There’s barely a day goes by on here where you don’t repeat the same nonsense, so I’ll ask again. How would things have turned out differently for both the club and player if Nathan Collins had played centrally between September and February when he got injured and never played for the club again? Playing a centre half at right back is stupid. Playing your best centre half at right back is really stupid. Not allowing him to showcase his full ability was really stupid. If you can’t see that then there’s no hope. I'm surprised this is a debate tbh, it was moronic when Pulis did it and it was still moronic when MON did it (playing a CB at RB). A little puzzling that people can't see it.
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Collins
May 29, 2022 11:11:14 GMT
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Post by mickstupp on May 29, 2022 11:11:14 GMT
Playing a centre half at right back is stupid. Playing your best centre half at right back is really stupid. Not allowing him to showcase his full ability was really stupid. If you can’t see that then there’s no hope. I'm surprised this is a debate tbh, it was moronic when Pulis did it and it was still moronic when MON did it (playing a CB at RB). A little puzzling that people can't see it. The debate is quite simple. In the time that Collins was fit to play last season (20/21), did his role in the team make any difference to his development, or that of the club as a whole. Personally, I don’t think it made a scrap of difference. We defended well with or without him in the side, and he managed to get a premier league transfer at the end of it anyway. It’s pointless splitting hairs in my opinion.
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 29, 2022 12:11:29 GMT
I'm surprised this is a debate tbh, it was moronic when Pulis did it and it was still moronic when MON did it (playing a CB at RB). A little puzzling that people can't see it. The debate is quite simple. In the time that Collins was fit to play last season (20/21), did his role in the team make any difference to his development, or that of the club as a whole. Personally, I don’t think it made a scrap of difference. We defended well with or without him in the side, and he managed to get a premier league transfer at the end of it anyway. It’s pointless splitting hairs in my opinion. It could have hampered his development yes, surely letting a player learn his position is preferable than getting stuck into a completely different situation but none of us are to know that for sure. Could it have had an affect on the team, I don't see how it couldn't, putting a player out of position is always going to add limitations because its not their position and some of the skills and knowledge wont be there, with RB for example, playing a CB there is always likely to restrict any forward movement because it isn't their game and they don't know what they're doing when they get there, CB's aren't known for their crossing ability so that's automatically going to have an effect. Not a surprise we defended well, that was pretty much our main tactic, and having an extra CB there is always going to help but I'm not sure that really matters when the question is should he be getting played out of position and the affect it has on his development. Not sure about club as a hole he was always going to get a Prem move it was pretty clear to all he was more than good enough, could we have got more money, maybe but then I'm not privy to that kind of thing. As I said, I think it was stupid when Pulis did it and my opinion hadn't change when MON did it.
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Post by independent on May 30, 2022 11:33:06 GMT
Pep has played Foden in at least 3 positions to help his development. He has done the same with others. But then what would Pep know. Klopp has also used players in different positions but like Pep he hasn't got a clue, and doesn't realise the damage he is doing to the player. Perhaps one of the experts on here could let him know.
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