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Post by bayernoatcake on May 30, 2022 11:36:16 GMT
Pep has played Foden in at least 3 positions to help his development. He has done the same with others. But then what would Pep know. Klopp has also used players in different positions but like Pep he hasn't got a clue, and doesn't realise the damage he is doing to the player. Perhaps one of the experts on here could let him know. Foden is an attacking player who can play along the front like a lot of attacking players nowadays. Collins is a centre back. He was our best centre back. He's rarely played right back until that season. It's the equivalent of TP playing Shawcross at right back for half a season when he was 20. It would have stupid.
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Post by independent on May 30, 2022 14:35:14 GMT
Pep has played Foden in at least 3 positions to help his development. So playing wide on the left or right wing is the same as playing CF. Of course he can play all the positions, he has the experience of doing so and has learned how to do it. That is what helping his development means.
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Collins
May 30, 2022 14:48:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 14:48:17 GMT
Pep has played Foden in at least 3 positions to help his development. He has done the same with others. But then what would Pep know. Klopp has also used players in different positions but like Pep he hasn't got a clue, and doesn't realise the damage he is doing to the player. Perhaps one of the experts on here could let him know. Foden is an attacking player who can play along the front like a lot of attacking players nowadays. Collins is a centre back. He was our best centre back. He's rarely played right back until that season. It's the equivalent of TP playing Shawcross at right back for half a season when he was 20. It would have stupid. Playing a player right back a few games is the equivalent of another player there for half a season ? Maybe is about time you got over Collins playing right back a few games
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Post by nottsover60 on May 30, 2022 14:51:24 GMT
Pep has played Foden in at least 3 positions to help his development. He has done the same with others. But then what would Pep know. Klopp has also used players in different positions but like Pep he hasn't got a clue, and doesn't realise the damage he is doing to the player. Perhaps one of the experts on here could let him know. Foden is an attacking player who can play along the front like a lot of attacking players nowadays. Collins is a centre back. He was our best centre back. He's rarely played right back until that season. It's the equivalent of TP playing Shawcross at right back for half a season when he was 20. It would have stupid. He did first season in the Premier, maybe not for half a season but he dropped him after the Bolton game and when he got back after a few weeks it was at right back.
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Post by lordb on May 30, 2022 15:29:28 GMT
Pep has played Foden in at least 3 positions to help his development. He has done the same with others. But then what would Pep know. Klopp has also used players in different positions but like Pep he hasn't got a clue, and doesn't realise the damage he is doing to the player. Perhaps one of the experts on here could let him know. Foden is an attacking player who can play along the front like a lot of attacking players nowadays. Collins is a centre back. He was our best centre back. He's rarely played right back until that season. It's the equivalent of TP playing Shawcross at right back for half a season when he was 20. It would have stupid. One fundamental difference: Ryan was terrible at RB (in his one game there), Collins was excellent at RB Collins would probably be excellent in midfield too, he's seriously talented I think it shows how little the manager rated Smith
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Post by lordb on May 30, 2022 15:32:50 GMT
Pep has played Foden in at least 3 positions to help his development. So playing wide on the left or right wing is the same as playing CF. Of course he can play all the positions, he has the experience of doing so and has learned how to do it. That is what helping his development means. Brian Clough played Garry Parker out of position for an entire season purely to get Parker to understand the game better he played Nigel at CB on occasion in order for Nigel to appreciate the CB mindset better e.t.c. obviously Clough was under no pressure at Foer4srt so could afford to do this none the less there can & often is a value to playing younger players 'out of position' imho stating a player is one position & one opposition only in the English game is laughed at abroad
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Collins
May 30, 2022 16:10:43 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 30, 2022 16:10:43 GMT
Foden is an attacking player who can play along the front like a lot of attacking players nowadays. Collins is a centre back. He was our best centre back. He's rarely played right back until that season. It's the equivalent of TP playing Shawcross at right back for half a season when he was 20. It would have stupid. One fundamental difference: Ryan was terrible at RB (in his one game there), Collins was excellent at RB Collins would probably be excellent in midfield too, he's seriously talented I think it shows how little the manager rated Smith Excellent? He looked lost. It stunted any attacking play down that side and positionally he’d be at sea.
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Post by banksisgod on May 30, 2022 16:39:38 GMT
Collins played in an assortment of different positions for Cherry Orchard as a schoolboy. He played across the back, defensive mid-field on occasion, and centre-forward more than once. When you are that good, with pace, control, and calmness under pressure, you can easily make the adjustment. We had cover in the centre of defence; we were light at right full-back. He was the most capable and versatile of the options that we had, and certainly didn't let us down in that position.
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Collins
May 30, 2022 16:44:32 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 30, 2022 16:44:32 GMT
Collins played in an assortment of different positions for Cherry Orchard as a schoolboy. He played across the back, defensive mid-field on occasion, and centre-forward more than once. When you are that good, with pace, control, and calmness under pressure, you can easily make the adjustment. We had cover in the centre of defence; we were light at right full-back. He was the most capable and versatile of the options that we had, and certainly didn't let us down in that position. We had Smith Edwards and Coates. We weren’t light at right back. He was poor there.
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Post by lordb on May 30, 2022 16:58:17 GMT
Collins played in an assortment of different positions for Cherry Orchard as a schoolboy. He played across the back, defensive mid-field on occasion, and centre-forward more than once. When you are that good, with pace, control, and calmness under pressure, you can easily make the adjustment. We had cover in the centre of defence; we were light at right full-back. He was the most capable and versatile of the options that we had, and certainly didn't let us down in that position. We had Smith Edwards and Coates. We weren’t light at right back. He was poor there. couldn't disagree more, he was very good there should we have signed another RB instead & played Collins at CB? yes of course but to say he was poor at RB isn't tenable
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Collins
May 30, 2022 17:05:52 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 30, 2022 17:05:52 GMT
We had Smith Edwards and Coates. We weren’t light at right back. He was poor there. couldn't disagree more, he was very good there should we have signed another RB instead & played Collins at CB? yes of course but to say he was poor at RB isn't tenable We didn’t have an outlet on the right. It was like Huth there. Just terrible.
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Post by dirtclod on May 30, 2022 17:09:53 GMT
Pep has played Foden in at least 3 positions to help his development. So playing wide on the left or right wing is the same as playing CF. Of course he can play all the positions, he has the experience of doing so and has learned how to do it. That is what helping his development means. Brian Clough played Garry Parker out of position for an entire season purely to get Parker to understand the game better he played Nigel at CB on occasion in order for Nigel to appreciate the CB mindset better e.t.c. obviously Clough was under no pressure at Foer4srt so could afford to do this none the less there can & often is a value to playing younger players 'out of position' imho stating a player is one position & one opposition only in the English game is laughed at abroad Feel the same way when someone says "let's build a team around [individual player]. The first thing that happens is that player gets injured or even worse, an overinflated ego. Talk about sending the wrong message to a squad! First thing these teams in our league will do is kick the living sh*t out of them, while the refs stand by and let it happen. How about building one around 11 players? Or even stoop to the sorcery of building a squad to fit your strategy? And f**k this home and away "strategy" crap. Formulate a strategy based upon the opponent, not where the match is and you'll find that your team starts winning. When we were flying high, we didn't care where the match was, just went for it and made the other team keep up with US. I can see strategy changing due to existing weather at the time, but that's called managing a game. But going up 1-0 then trying to park a "bus" with more holes in it than Spongebob Squarepants just pisses off your fans and loses matches. It's not a strategy, it's a panic - at that point you might as well don the tutus and dance your way to a defeat. Only one I've seen able to do that consistently here was Pulis and it even backfired on him on occasion. (And he had MEN who played defense) But agree yet again with Clough developing players by sometimes letting them see another side of the game. And you can bet that he always has a strategy on how to backfill the other position in order to develop the squad. The epitome of a football manager is Clough - much respect to him. Thread topic: Collins? Isn't he gone? Good player, but we needed the money at the time if I remember right.
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Post by biddulphchav on May 31, 2022 6:50:52 GMT
Collins played in an assortment of different positions for Cherry Orchard as a schoolboy. He played across the back, defensive mid-field on occasion, and centre-forward more than once. When you are that good, with pace, control, and calmness under pressure, you can easily make the adjustment. We had cover in the centre of defence; we were light at right full-back. He was the most capable and versatile of the options that we had, and certainly didn't let us down in that position. We had Smith Edwards and Coates. We weren’t light at right back. He was poor there. Coates has been released, so a bit of a stretch to say he was a realistic option. Edwards was exposed time and time again at the back post and allegedly had a drinking / partying issue - so although there is an argument that they were options, there is also one to say that they weren’t.
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Collins
May 31, 2022 6:59:25 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 31, 2022 6:59:25 GMT
We had Smith Edwards and Coates. We weren’t light at right back. He was poor there. Coates has been released, so a bit of a stretch to say he was a realistic option. Edwards was exposed time and time again at the back post and allegedly had a drinking / partying issue - so although there is an argument that they were options, there is also one to say that they weren’t. They are all better right backs than Collins.
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Post by independent on May 31, 2022 10:17:28 GMT
Coates has been released, so a bit of a stretch to say he was a realistic option. Edwards was exposed time and time again at the back post and allegedly had a drinking / partying issue - so although there is an argument that they were options, there is also one to say that they weren’t. They are all better right backs than Collins. Sorry, but I think you need to go to SpecSavers. Collins at RB, according to you, limited our ability to go forward down our right flank. It's not as if Smith was regularly raiding down that side. So, I don't see what we lost in an attacking sense. Defensively we set a record for clean sheets with him at RF., so we hardly suffered there.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 10:26:59 GMT
They are all better right backs than Collins. Sorry, but I think you need to go to SpecSavers. Collins at RB, according to you, limited our ability to go forward down our right flank. It's not as if Smith was regularly raiding down that side. So, I don't see what we lost in an attacking sense. Defensively we set a record for clean sheets with him at RF., so we hardly suffered there. Sums up what's wrong with Stoke. This obsession with keeping clean sheets over scoring goals.
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Collins
May 31, 2022 10:52:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 10:52:21 GMT
Coates has been released, so a bit of a stretch to say he was a realistic option. Edwards was exposed time and time again at the back post and allegedly had a drinking / partying issue - so although there is an argument that they were options, there is also one to say that they weren’t. They are all better right backs than Collins. Going forward probably, although even then not massively. Defensively definitely not. Neither Smith or Edwards can defend especially balls to the far post. We haven't had a competent RB since Bardsley, hence why we shoehorn CBs in at RB and not just Collins.
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Collins
May 31, 2022 12:06:20 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 31, 2022 12:06:20 GMT
They are all better right backs than Collins. Going forward probably, although even then not massively. Defensively definitely not. Neither Smith or Edwards can defend especially balls to the far post. We haven't had a competent RB since Bardsley, hence why we shoehorn CBs in at RB and not just Collins. We do that because of incompetent managers. Smith and Edwards were better balanced players at right back.
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Collins
May 31, 2022 12:18:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 12:18:46 GMT
Going forward probably, although even then not massively. Defensively definitely not. Neither Smith or Edwards can defend especially balls to the far post. We haven't had a competent RB since Bardsley, hence why we shoehorn CBs in at RB and not just Collins. We do that because of incompetent managers. Smith and Edwards were better balanced players at right back. I agree about the incompetence of managers in that they should have recognised that a top priority for five or six seasons should have been a RB. Smith or Edwards were never the answer.
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Post by LGH87 on May 31, 2022 12:21:26 GMT
I love how long we can argue about 4 players who are all no longer at the club for
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Post by iamstokie on May 31, 2022 12:26:40 GMT
I'm surprised this is a debate tbh, it was moronic when Pulis did it and it was still moronic when MON did it (playing a CB at RB). A little puzzling that people can't see it. The debate is quite simple. In the time that Collins was fit to play last season (20/21), did his role in the team make any difference to his development, or that of the club as a whole. Personally, I don’t think it made a scrap of difference. We defended well with or without him in the side, and he managed to get a premier league transfer at the end of it anyway. It’s pointless splitting hairs in my opinion. Yep good players can play in a number of roles , they should learn a number of roles also , remember the Dutch with total football , them bastards could play anywhere on the pitch lol 😂
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Collins
May 31, 2022 12:28:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2022 12:28:16 GMT
I love how long we can argue about 4 players who are all no longer at the club for point taken 🤣🤣🤣
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Post by knype on May 31, 2022 12:39:07 GMT
Going forward probably, although even then not massively. Defensively definitely not. Neither Smith or Edwards can defend especially balls to the far post. We haven't had a competent RB since Bardsley, hence why we shoehorn CBs in at RB and not just Collins. We do that because of incompetent managers. Smith and Edwards were better balanced players at right back. Better balanced to do what? Edwards and Smith were 2 of the same aside from their age and experience, both preferred and were allegedly better at going forward and not as good at defending and tracking back?
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 31, 2022 14:30:03 GMT
We do that because of incompetent managers. Smith and Edwards were better balanced players at right back. Better balanced to do what? Edwards and Smith were 2 of the same aside from their age and experience, both preferred and were allegedly better at going forward and not as good at defending and tracking back? What you mean like modern full backs. Smith was far too slow getting forward for my liking.
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Collins
May 31, 2022 16:16:14 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 31, 2022 16:16:14 GMT
We do that because of incompetent managers. Smith and Edwards were better balanced players at right back. Better balanced to do what? Edwards and Smith were 2 of the same aside from their age and experience, both preferred and were allegedly better at going forward and not as good at defending and tracking back? Edwards is fine at defending.
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Post by banksisgod on May 31, 2022 19:08:26 GMT
If Edwards is fine, why then is he wasting away with the stiffs in the U.S. at the age of twenty-three? Instead of looking forward to the next ten years playing in the most competitive league system in the world, he has gone to where football careers go to die.
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Collins
May 31, 2022 19:18:51 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 31, 2022 19:18:51 GMT
If Edwards is fine, why then is he wasting away with the stiffs in the U.S. at the age of twenty-three? Instead of looking forward to the next ten years playing in the most competitive league system in the world, he has gone to where football careers go to die. Because the manager isn’t very good. It’s a shame we couldn’t swap managers tbh. New York’s is far superior.
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Post by a on May 31, 2022 19:24:39 GMT
Better balanced to do what? Edwards and Smith were 2 of the same aside from their age and experience, both preferred and were allegedly better at going forward and not as good at defending and tracking back? Edwards is fine at defending. Nah, I think he’s pretty poor to be honest.
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Post by mickstupp on May 31, 2022 19:46:58 GMT
Better balanced to do what? Edwards and Smith were 2 of the same aside from their age and experience, both preferred and were allegedly better at going forward and not as good at defending and tracking back? Edwards is fine at defending. He’s a non league standard footballer
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Collins
May 31, 2022 19:50:13 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 31, 2022 19:50:13 GMT
Edwards is fine at defending. He’s a non league standard footballer 😂😂😂😂😂
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