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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 15:41:37 GMT
Point is…….. People are getting upset about media lies. Nobody is saying racism doesn’t exist. But nobody wants to question why the media are falsely reporting it? How does that work? People aren’t getting upset over media lies, people are getting upset over racism and that there is evidently still so much to be done. The OP was asking ” but what do we do about racism in the game? Kick it out isn't effective,Taking the knee isn't effective, Do we all have to stand up and start to call people out? Not just in football but in society as a whole?” No one on here has really been discussing or scrutinising the reporting from the media other than yourself. We are trying to ask ourselves ‘what we can do more?’ Bringing media lies into the discussion is just sidetracking the subject into realms that are not part of the question and don’t offer any solutions, suggestions or analysis as to what to do about Racism in the game. What can be done to combat racism? Stop listening to the media lies and get to the real truth. Or the real victims won’t be supported properly. Next question.
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Post by tuum on Jul 15, 2021 15:42:25 GMT
So which part of my post do you find staggering? I if know this then perhaps I can explain my thoughts a little more clearly to you. Racism is abhorrent, standing back and doing nothing whilst racists shout their bile is not far behind. It's not enough to say "I'm not racist", if we want to move forward as a society we need to root out these ignorant bastards and either educate them or let them know there will be consequences for their actions. You're entitled to do whatever you choose, honestly though I think your response to the hypothetical scenario is fairly pathetic. But each to their own...... You call my response fairly pathetic but I have actually called people out at football matches for their over-zealous abuse. I would like to think that is positive, affirmative action and puts me on at least the next step up from fairly pathetic. Admittedly, it may not be an especially high standard when measured against what the average man in the UK would do in 2021 but at least it's a start. In my reply, I suggested I would draw the line at the N-word. I appreciate this does not meet the expected standards of the UK these days but as I have said before I don't go to football matches to police our fans. If I heard someone in a shop abusing a pakistani or calling someone a black **** then I like to think I will say or do something to help. I see those circumstances differently to football matches. In the shop it's more personal and potentially threatening.
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 15:43:47 GMT
Are you just going to ignore the very valid point made then? - Rashford graffiti wasn't racist but is repeatedly being bundled in with the racism narrative in headlines and stories. Also one idiot with a spray can was outnumbered by about 300 to 1 by people who turned up to support Rashford and leave goodwill messages - Guardian analysed 600,000 twitter posts aimed at England players and found 44 were racist - an online hate monitoring group analysed 100 racist Instagram posts and identified 5 as from the UK - Premier League says 70% of racist hatred comes from abroad - very often the abuse comes from recently created, anonymous accounts with few followers - in Sancho's statement he went to great pains to emphasise that it was a tiny minority who were abusive, yet that section has been omitted from almost all the reporting of it As usual of course when making a point like this one has to go to great lengths to emphasise racism is abhorrent, any racism is too much, it's a problem that must be dealt with, would never belittle the experiences of the players etc. But there are influential people out there who are particularly invested in whipping this issue up into a divisive panic. I try not to get wound up on subjects like this and understand that it sells papers but the size of the problem for me is almost irrelevant. If this happened to my child I wouldn't care about the size of the problem or it being the minority. Now it won't happen to my child but I feel I'm right to feel as appalled as I do even though it's not happening that much. It would happen to your child and go unreported because the media are masking the truth. Another victim without a voice.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 15, 2021 15:52:24 GMT
Are you just going to ignore the very valid point made then? - Rashford graffiti wasn't racist but is repeatedly being bundled in with the racism narrative in headlines and stories. Also one idiot with a spray can was outnumbered by about 300 to 1 by people who turned up to support Rashford and leave goodwill messages - Guardian analysed 600,000 twitter posts aimed at England players and found 44 were racist - an online hate monitoring group analysed 100 racist Instagram posts and identified 5 as from the UK - Premier League says 70% of racist hatred comes from abroad - very often the abuse comes from recently created, anonymous accounts with few followers - in Sancho's statement he went to great pains to emphasise that it was a tiny minority who were abusive, yet that section has been omitted from almost all the reporting of it As usual of course when making a point like this one has to go to great lengths to emphasise racism is abhorrent, any racism is too much, it's a problem that must be dealt with, would never belittle the experiences of the players etc. But there are influential people out there who are particularly invested in whipping this issue up into a divisive panic. For some reason mate - people don’t want to hear it. The best thing they can do is call us racist then the circle is complete. Except neither of you are being called racist from what I can see......
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 15, 2021 15:53:59 GMT
Racism is abhorrent, standing back and doing nothing whilst racists shout their bile is not far behind. It's not enough to say "I'm not racist", if we want to move forward as a society we need to root out these ignorant bastards and either educate them or let them know there will be consequences for their actions. You're entitled to do whatever you choose, honestly though I think your response to the hypothetical scenario is fairly pathetic. But each to their own...... You call my response fairly pathetic but I have actually called people out at football matches for their over-zealous abuse. I would like to think that is positive, affirmative action and puts me on at least the next step up from fairly pathetic. Admittedly, it may not be an especially high standard when measured against what the average man in the UK would do in 2021 but at least it's a start. In my reply, I suggested I would draw the line at the N-word. I appreciate this does not meet the expected standards of the UK these days but as I have said before I don't go to football matches to police our fans. If I heard someone in a shop abusing a pakistani or calling someone a black **** then I like to think I will say or do something to help. I see those circumstances differently to football matches. In the shop it's more personal and potentially threatening. Fair enough, I'm not sure how racism towards a footballer or fellow fan is any different to that of a Pakistani shop owner but you've explained your position........
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 15:58:59 GMT
For some reason mate - people don’t want to hear it. The best thing they can do is call us racist then the circle is complete. Except neither of you are being called racist from what I can see...... That’s why I said, the best thing they can do is call us racist 😂 Tbf I was pretty much accused of denying racism if you can be arsed to scroll through
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 15, 2021 15:59:59 GMT
Except neither of you are being called racist from what I can see...... That’s why I said, the best thing they can do is call us racist 😂 Tbf I was pretty much accused of denying racism if you can be arsed to scroll through I can't, but I'll happily take your word for it.....
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 16:05:25 GMT
I have never seen Zerps say racism doesn't exist. Might have missed it but I highly doubt that. And if you are not prepared to watch a video of someone with a potentially differing opinion to yourself then I am not sure how credible you are to debate this. I've watched a few of this guys videos and in some he is way off beam to the point of WTF. In others like this one he makes some pretty basic but valid points. You can't live in an echo chamber only hearing things you believe to be right. The media reporting on recent events is irrelevant as to the point of this thread. Don’t worry about my credibility to debate the subject any more than your own and anyone else’s and I haven’t once said that I live in an echo chamber and only hear things I believe. It’s interesting to see though that you’ve made all of those assumption as to who I am, how I live, think and navigate the world. 👍🏼 I’m not even going to warrant watching that YouTube video of what is likely some sort of opinionated poor attempt at zeitgeist-eye-opening / bedroom broadcasting. Your words Like the assumptions you made about the video creator You literally told the person you were replying to that you weren't going to watch the video because of the assumptions you made above. Keep digging.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jul 15, 2021 16:05:52 GMT
It’s not a race war it’s the media vs everyone He claims that the anti-rasicm movement is "Generated by manufactured racism". The fortunate thing for the movement is that's not needed because we have real racism. Even after he goes through to try and filter out racism from other countries it still exists. He then places motives on deepstate and maintaining power which really is a full circle argument. Racism partly exists because people are worried that by giving something to somebody else they themselves will lose out. It is a symptom of people trying to keep power not the action of people trying to keep power. He then frames the other side as communist, I believe that everyone should have equal opportunities but I'm against things like a wealth tax. If you're relatives did very well for themselves I don't believe it should be clawed back over generations. Believing in equality is not a communist belief. The hypocrisy is brilliant. There are agencies at work such as social media and the media that generate revenue from racism, please hit like or subscribe to help me fight this. The man is the biggest idiot I've come across in a long time.
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 16:08:41 GMT
It’s not a race war it’s the media vs everyone He claims that the anti-rasicm movement is "Generated by manufactured racism". The fortunate thing for the movement is that's not needed because we have real racism. Even after he goes through to try and filter out racism from other countries it still exists. He then places motives on deepstate and maintaining power which really is a full circle argument. Racism partly exists because people are worried that by giving something to somebody else they themselves will lose out. It is a symptom of people trying to keep power not the action of people trying to keep power. He then frames the other side as communist, I believe that everyone should have equal opportunities but I'm against things like a wealth tax. If you're relatives did very well for themselves I don't believe it should be clawed back over generations. Believing in equality is not a communist belief. The hypocrisy is brilliant. There are agencies at work such as social media and the media that generate revenue from racism, please hit like or subscribe to help me fight this. The man is the biggest idiot I've come across in a long time. Is nothing that he says valid?
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Post by Goonie on Jul 15, 2021 16:15:47 GMT
Says it all
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 16:25:03 GMT
He claims that the anti-rasicm movement is "Generated by manufactured racism". The fortunate thing for the movement is that's not needed because we have real racism. Even after he goes through to try and filter out racism from other countries it still exists. He then places motives on deepstate and maintaining power which really is a full circle argument. Racism partly exists because people are worried that by giving something to somebody else they themselves will lose out. It is a symptom of people trying to keep power not the action of people trying to keep power. He then frames the other side as communist, I believe that everyone should have equal opportunities but I'm against things like a wealth tax. If you're relatives did very well for themselves I don't believe it should be clawed back over generations. Believing in equality is not a communist belief. The hypocrisy is brilliant. There are agencies at work such as social media and the media that generate revenue from racism, please hit like or subscribe to help me fight this. The man is the biggest idiot I've come across in a long time. Is nothing that he says valid? He's possibly framed him as a right wing nutter, maybe, I don't know. And to some extent I can get that because he does talk some right bollox. But he undeniably also drops truth bombs here and there. Like in this video I think this is a fundamental problem today. Many seem to only follow the content that keeps reminding them they are always correct. I'd describe myself as right of centre, just, but I like reading the Guardian. I voted remain but I believe in the democratic process. But the Guardian don't half talk some utter clap trap. I read the Express and its constantly full of BS yet now and again there are some decent honest articles in there. The quality of public debate is declining rapidly and its being made worse by dishonest reporting from the MSM as this is where many form their opinions. And when you take your opinion from only sources that push one particular narrative and one you know you like then how can you honestly say you are helping the process. You can't. People need to open their eyes a bit wider.
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 16:26:29 GMT
Is nothing that he says valid? He's possibly framed him as a right wing nutter, maybe, I don't know. And to some extent I can get that because he does talk some right bollox. But he undeniably also drops truth bombs here and there. Like in this video I think this is a fundamental problem today. Many seem to only follow the content that keeps reminding them they are always correct. I'd describe myself as right of centre, just, but I like reading the Guardian. I voted remain but I believe in the democratic process. But the Guardian don't half talk some utter clap trap. I read the Express and its constantly full of BS yet now and again there are some decent honest articles in there. The quality of public debate is declining rapidly and its being made worse by dishonest reporting from the MSM as this is where many form their opinions. And when you take your opinion from only sources that push one particular narrative and one you know you like then how can you honestly say you are helping the process. You can't. People need to open their eyes a bit wider. People believe everything the news says and disregard everything else. Next level brainwashing.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 16:34:27 GMT
He's possibly framed him as a right wing nutter, maybe, I don't know. And to some extent I can get that because he does talk some right bollox. But he undeniably also drops truth bombs here and there. Like in this video I think this is a fundamental problem today. Many seem to only follow the content that keeps reminding them they are always correct. I'd describe myself as right of centre, just, but I like reading the Guardian. I voted remain but I believe in the democratic process. But the Guardian don't half talk some utter clap trap. I read the Express and its constantly full of BS yet now and again there are some decent honest articles in there. The quality of public debate is declining rapidly and its being made worse by dishonest reporting from the MSM as this is where many form their opinions. And when you take your opinion from only sources that push one particular narrative and one you know you like then how can you honestly say you are helping the process. You can't. People need to open their eyes a bit wider. People believe everything the news says and disregard everything else. Next level brainwashing. Sadly this is indeed the case. And it applies to both sides of the political spectrum. And it is brewing a major storm that the media 100% are assisting with. With glee I might add. It is a very big concern. I can disagree with mates about things and discuss it sensibly. I can disagree with people on here to be fair and do it sensibly. Yet on a national level it is starting to get out of hand, it is not discussed sensibly. If people can't see that this is a direct result of media influence then I really don't know what to say other than we're fooked........................
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 16:41:54 GMT
People believe everything the news says and disregard everything else. Next level brainwashing. Sadly this is indeed the case. And it applies to both sides of the political spectrum. And it is brewing a major storm that the media 100% are assisting with. With glee I might add. It is a very big concern. I can disagree with mates about things and discuss it sensibly. I can disagree with people on here to be fair and do it sensibly. Yet on a national level it is starting to get out of hand, it is not discussed sensibly. If people can't see that this is a direct result of media influence then I really don't know what to say other than we're fooked........................ In my opinion, the biggest problem with MSM is the development of a 24/7 news cycle. Reports are rushed, not analysed. Everyone just looks for the next 20 second trending video. Also, no one has an attention span that lasts more than 20 seconds anymore either. I really like Al-Jazeera, unless reporting on Iran and their neighbours, where it’s just ridiculous. At least the articles that they have in there are detailed and appear well-researched. I then try to counterbalance it by reading a similar report in something like Fox.
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Post by skemstokie on Jul 15, 2021 16:44:19 GMT
2 problems with this,if you confront you will most likely get a vile mouthful coming your way or even violence, report to a steward would remove the above scenarios but would most likely lead to nothing else sadly. your wrong, see my last post here, it is taken seriously, stewards report to police who investigate straight away, they can pick out every face in a crowd and they will instantly remove anybody who might have given racial abuse I have to admit i rarely attend games now due to c.o.p.d. but it is good to hear and i hope people do report such incidents.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jul 15, 2021 16:49:26 GMT
He claims that the anti-rasicm movement is "Generated by manufactured racism". The fortunate thing for the movement is that's not needed because we have real racism. Even after he goes through to try and filter out racism from other countries it still exists. He then places motives on deepstate and maintaining power which really is a full circle argument. Racism partly exists because people are worried that by giving something to somebody else they themselves will lose out. It is a symptom of people trying to keep power not the action of people trying to keep power. He then frames the other side as communist, I believe that everyone should have equal opportunities but I'm against things like a wealth tax. If you're relatives did very well for themselves I don't believe it should be clawed back over generations. Believing in equality is not a communist belief. The hypocrisy is brilliant. There are agencies at work such as social media and the media that generate revenue from racism, please hit like or subscribe to help me fight this. The man is the biggest idiot I've come across in a long time. Is nothing that he says valid? Claiming that some of the Italian squad is black I assume is a fact and the Rashford Mural is correct but that's nearly it. I tend to steer clear of stuff that when generating a narrative use comedians because I've found they tend to exaggerate as part of their job. Each to their own of course.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 16:53:42 GMT
Sadly this is indeed the case. And it applies to both sides of the political spectrum. And it is brewing a major storm that the media 100% are assisting with. With glee I might add. It is a very big concern. I can disagree with mates about things and discuss it sensibly. I can disagree with people on here to be fair and do it sensibly. Yet on a national level it is starting to get out of hand, it is not discussed sensibly. If people can't see that this is a direct result of media influence then I really don't know what to say other than we're fooked........................ In my opinion, the biggest problem with MSM is the development of a 24/7 news cycle. Reports are rushed, not analysed. Everyone just looks for the next 20 second trending video. Also, no one has an attention span that lasts more than 20 seconds anymore either. I really like Al-Jazeera, unless reporting on Iran and their neighbours, where it’s just ridiculous. At least the articles that they have in there are detailed and appear well-researched. I then try to counterbalance it by reading a similar report in something like Fox. And this is part of the problem. If you watch CNN you are labelled one thing. If you watch FOX you are labelled another. What are you if you watch both for a bit of balance? There is a distinct lack of critical thought going on I reckon and we are all the poorer for it.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 15, 2021 18:19:09 GMT
Except neither of you are being called racist from what I can see...... That’s why I said, the best thing they can do is call us racist 😂 Tbf I was pretty much accused of denying racism if you can be arsed to scroll through The issue about the media reporting of racism is nothing to do with what the OP is asking. The question was would you call out someone you saw in real life for being racist. That's got absolutely nothing to do with how the media reports racism - it's about whether you personally would stand up for someone who you witnessed being racially abused. Or are you saying people only think they are witnessing racist abuse because the media have told them about racist abuse and really there isn't any racist abuse going on the real world so the appropriate thing to do is ignore it because at the end of the day racism is just a media construct? I believe compared with a lot of countries the UK isn't that racist and the vast majority of people in this country aren't racist. However it does go on and when it does, as the OP is suggesting, needs challenging out there in the real world - regardless of what anyone in the media is saying about the issue. And I came to that conclusion without consulting social media, the radio or the telly.
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 18:25:30 GMT
That’s why I said, the best thing they can do is call us racist 😂 Tbf I was pretty much accused of denying racism if you can be arsed to scroll through The issue about the media reporting of racism is nothing to do with what the OP is asking. The question was would you call out someone you saw in real life for being racist. That's got absolutely nothing to do with how the media reports racism - it's about whether you personally would stand up for someone who you witnessed being racially abused. Or are you saying people only think they are witnessing racist abuse because the media have told them about racist abuse and really there isn't any racist abuse going on the real world so the appropriate thing to do is ignore it because at the end of the day racism is just a media construct? I believe compared with a lot of countries the UK isn't that racist and the vast majority of people in this country aren't racist. However it does go on and when it does, as the OP is suggesting, needs challenging out there in the real world - regardless of what anyone in the media is saying about the issue. And I came to that conclusion without consulting social media, the radio or the telly. The title of the thread is racism in football. Plenty of other valid points have been raised but I can’t help you ignoring everything on every thread apart from the original question. That’s upto you.
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 15, 2021 20:20:33 GMT
The dust has now settled, and the Rashford memorial being defaced, the raist abuse on social media on our black players how low do we have to go as a society? I say this as a middle aged white man, fed up of seeing teams take the knee before kick off, but maybe I have been ignorent? The rasist abuse following the euro final just reinstates to me that more needs to be done. I am proud to be English, proud to say that I have seen my country in a final (a win would have been better, but you sence that title is only a matter of time) but what do we do about racism in the game? Kick it out isn't effective, Taking the knee isn't effective, Do we all have to stand up and start to call people out? Not just in football but in society as a whole? Taking the knee has been highly effective in highlighting how the England team feel about racism actually. Interesting that support for their stance increased as the tournament went on as did derision of the unpatriotic booing of the team. Tyrone Mings calling out of Priti Awfful for her hypocrisy was awesome and the whole Englan team emerged with credit for their performances and behaviour. True role models for our multi-cultural country. It was great that they turned down a visit to see the joker in Number 10.
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 15, 2021 20:22:32 GMT
I think you have a major problem. You have an obsession with racism and the media. Perhaps you think like this guy:
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 15, 2021 20:24:04 GMT
I try not to get wound up on subjects like this and understand that it sells papers but the size of the problem for me is almost irrelevant. If this happened to my child I wouldn't care about the size of the problem or it being the minority. Now it won't happen to my child but I feel I'm right to feel as appalled as I do even though it's not happening that much. It would happen to your child and go unreported because the media are masking the truth. Another victim without a voice. What have masks got to do with it?
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Post by meltonjohn on Jul 15, 2021 20:26:45 GMT
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Post by salfordstokie on Jul 15, 2021 20:29:11 GMT
I think some people in the media and within the 'woke' culture in general dont seem to get the fact that you can be appalled by the disgusting treatment of England's black players this week, yet also hold the view that taking the knee is not the answer. Yes, condemn the genuine racists, but dont tar everyone with the same brush and use it as an excuse to put more curbs on our online freedoms.
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Post by songthrush01 on Jul 15, 2021 20:37:39 GMT
Thank you for your thoughtful input to a recognised problem, enjoy your evening. input 2 get a life
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Post by potterburt on Jul 15, 2021 20:39:11 GMT
I think some people in the media and within the 'woke' culture in general dont seem to get the fact that you can be appalled by the disgusting treatment of England's black players this week, yet also hold the view that taking the knee is not the answer. Yes, condemn the genuine racists, but dont tar everyone with the same brush and use it as an excuse to put more curbs on our online freedoms. Sorry bud, this doesn’t really sound true though. • No one has tarnished everyone with same brush. • you’ll find it’s generally more the right leaning type who want online ID and is rather opposed by the ‘woke culture’ • So if taking the knee isn’t the answer means that everyone should be opposed to it happening without giving the slightest glimmer as to what they think ‘is’ the answer? • that ‘woke culture’ is not a culture, it’s just a term that means you’re actually just fairly decent Dictionary definition: meaning a state of being "aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice).
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 20:46:28 GMT
I think some people in the media and within the 'woke' culture in general dont seem to get the fact that you can be appalled by the disgusting treatment of England's black players this week, yet also hold the view that taking the knee is not the answer. Yes, condemn the genuine racists, but dont tar everyone with the same brush and use it as an excuse to put more curbs on our online freedoms. Sorry bud, this doesn’t really sound true though. • No one has tarnished everyone with same brush. • you’ll find it’s generally more the right leaning type who want online ID and is rather opposed by the ‘woke culture’ • So if taking the knee isn’t the answer means that everyone should be opposed to it happening without giving the slightest glimmer as to what they think ‘is’ the answer? • that ‘woke culture’ is not a culture, it’s just a term that means you’re actually just fairly decent Dictionary definition: meaning a state of being "aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice). I accept the definition. But surely you admit there is a vast sliding scale of wokeness. Some fruitcakes have disappeared over the horizon to one end of the spectrum.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 20:48:31 GMT
What really tickles me is when critics of the knee mention the words 'cultural Marxism' in a derogatory or fearful context.
Can anyone enlighten me as to a) what it is, and b) why it is some sort of boogeyman term?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2021 20:49:16 GMT
Sorry bud, this doesn’t really sound true though. • No one has tarnished everyone with same brush. • you’ll find it’s generally more the right leaning type who want online ID and is rather opposed by the ‘woke culture’ • So if taking the knee isn’t the answer means that everyone should be opposed to it happening without giving the slightest glimmer as to what they think ‘is’ the answer? • that ‘woke culture’ is not a culture, it’s just a term that means you’re actually just fairly decent Dictionary definition: meaning a state of being "aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice). I accept the definition. But surely you admit there is a vast sliding scale of wokeness. Some fruitcakes have disappeared over the horizon to one end of the spectrum. Could you provide some examples? I'm interested to know more.
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