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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 13:03:55 GMT
The vast majority of people aren’t racist. Are the media racist for over exaggerating racism? Not sure about racist but they are definitely dangerous. Words and articles plant seeds and have real world consequences.......
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Post by Veritas on Jul 15, 2021 14:25:01 GMT
The vast majority of people aren’t racist. Are the media racist for over exaggerating racism? No
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 14:28:18 GMT
The vast majority of people aren’t racist. Are the media racist for over exaggerating racism? No What are they then?
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Post by Veritas on Jul 15, 2021 14:32:16 GMT
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Post by skemstokie on Jul 15, 2021 14:32:17 GMT
From next season, if you heard a supporter around you say something along the lines of ‘you black *******’ would you report them? Would you challenge them? Would you even know how to report them? 2 problems with this,if you confront you will most likely get a vile mouthful coming your way or even violence, report to a steward would remove the above scenarios but would most likely lead to nothing else sadly.
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Post by scfc75 on Jul 15, 2021 14:32:29 GMT
I don’t think banning the racists from attending football matches is enough. Name and shame them.I also think using some form of ID to open a Twitter account for example is a good idea. Bit like a sex offenders register? I like that idea. Employers could use it to filter out scumbags when people are applying for jobs. Social media firms could refuse to let you join if you’re on it.
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 14:38:43 GMT
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jul 15, 2021 14:40:12 GMT
From next season, if you heard a supporter around you say something along the lines of ‘you black *******’ would you report them? Would you challenge them? Would you even know how to report them? 2 problems with this,if you confront you will most likely get a vile mouthful coming your way or even violence, report to a steward would remove the above scenarios but would most likely lead to nothing else sadly. I agree, not sure what the solution is but there should be one in place soon.
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Post by Veritas on Jul 15, 2021 14:41:59 GMT
What about the myriad racist posts all over social media? Or is that being over exaggerated by left wing propaganda sheets like the Daily Mail?
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Post by flea79 on Jul 15, 2021 14:42:13 GMT
i have said it time and time again that the vast majority of football fans are not racist, fans police themselves when i heard something said in our ground about Demba Ba (and it was bad) it was reported straight away to stewards by myself and others to our clubs credit it was dealt with instantly. every village has an idiot so dont tar everybody with the same brush. you might have racist dentist for example it doesnt mean by default all dentists are racist which seems to be the current inference
lets look at this objectively this whole moral panic is being caused by idiots behind a keyboard spouting abhorrent and vile abuse towards black players, i imagine these strange people do not attend games in person and never have and probably dont even have sky sports, they rely on free streams and that makes them a fan i imagine. they are not real fans nor are they likely to start up local chapters of the Ku Klux Klan, they have realised that they can get a rise by trolling black lads with racial abuse and the media talk about it and maybe even show the anonymous account which validates the reason they do it.
if the players had been homosexual i imagine that the abuse would have been the same, it isnt about colour its just plain trolling and idiocy from sad little people
sorry to say if we ignored these idiots they would go away when they didnt get any more attention for the stupid little game they are playing, dont feed the trolls..... of course it isnt right that a black footballer or anybody should wake up to dreadful things in his inbox or on his posts but eventually if nobody responds they would go away and give it up
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Post by flea79 on Jul 15, 2021 14:43:41 GMT
From next season, if you heard a supporter around you say something along the lines of ‘you black *******’ would you report them? Would you challenge them? Would you even know how to report them? 2 problems with this,if you confront you will most likely get a vile mouthful coming your way or even violence, report to a steward would remove the above scenarios but would most likely lead to nothing else sadly. your wrong, see my last post here, it is taken seriously, stewards report to police who investigate straight away, they can pick out every face in a crowd and they will instantly remove anybody who might have given racial abuse
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Post by tuum on Jul 15, 2021 14:53:29 GMT
No I wouldn't challenge them. In the same way I wouldn't if they called someone a ginger ******* or an irish ***** or a fat *****. Verbal abuse is verbal abuse irrespective of the object. If the abuse became incessant and over the top then I would say something as I have done in the past but it is the frequency/venom behind the abuse which triggers me not necessarily the specific adjective. Having said all that, I may say something for one off criticism if the racism was a bit more explicit than calling someone a black ****'*....N-word for example. I would speak to the person directly but would not report him unless he ignored my comment and continued with his abuse. Then I would report him. Staggering... So which part of my post do you find staggering? I if know this then perhaps I can explain my thoughts a little more clearly to you.
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 15:00:58 GMT
What about the myriad racist posts all over social media? Or is that being over exaggerated by left wing propaganda sheets like the Daily Mail? Stop believing your telly.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 15, 2021 15:01:32 GMT
So which part of my post do you find staggering? I if know this then perhaps I can explain my thoughts a little more clearly to you. Racism is abhorrent, standing back and doing nothing whilst racists shout their bile is poor in my opinion. It's not enough to say "I'm not racist", if we want to move forward as a society we need to root out these ignorant bastards and either educate them or let them know there will be consequences for their actions. You're entitled to do whatever you choose, honestly though I think your response to the hypothetical scenario is fairly pathetic. But each to their own......
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 15:02:04 GMT
It’s not a race war it’s the media vs everyone
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Post by flea79 on Jul 15, 2021 15:02:40 GMT
So which part of my post do you find staggering? I if know this then perhaps I can explain my thoughts a little more clearly to you. sorry mate your wrong, i can tolerate somebody slating a player for being a useless sack of shit on the pitch, the moment somebody brings the colour of the skin or the sexuality of player into it it has crossed a line and become more than just a griping fan and moved into illegal territory, as fans we have a duty to police ourselves and if somebody does move into that territory it should be reported straight away, there is even a number you can text if you felt you couldnt just tell a steward, there is no room in the game for discrimination, most reasonable people get it
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jul 15, 2021 15:08:41 GMT
What about the myriad racist posts all over social media? Or is that being over exaggerated by left wing propaganda sheets like the Daily Mail? Stop believing your telly. If racism got the universal vitriol that spitting does in football we wouldn't have the 5, everyone would just say it's disgusting. Instead, for racism we have people trying to scope the size of the problem and ask for a measured reaction.
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 15:11:36 GMT
Stop believing your telly. If racism got the universal vitriol that spitting does in football we wouldn't have the 5, everyone would just say it's disgusting. Instead, for racism we have people trying to scope the size of the problem and ask for a measured reaction. We also have people taking a knee at a Rashord mural because the uk media told everyone it had been racially vandalised. Nobody is condoning racism. You need to recognise when you’re being lied to though. The media is out of control.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jul 15, 2021 15:20:07 GMT
If racism got the universal vitriol that spitting does in football we wouldn't have the 5, everyone would just say it's disgusting. Instead, for racism we have people trying to scope the size of the problem and ask for a measured reaction. We also have people taking a knee at a Rashord mural because the uk media told everyone it had been racially vandalised. Nobody is condoning racism. You need to recognise when you’re being lied to though. The media is out of control. I understand that the mural wasn't racist graffiti. My feelings are generated from people behaving in an appalling manner to someone who's arguably contributed the most in the past year or two. I think like most people who have experienced the last few years in this country I've got a decent eye for when I'm being lied to. How do you know that's why they were taking the knee?
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Post by tuum on Jul 15, 2021 15:21:52 GMT
So which part of my post do you find staggering? I if know this then perhaps I can explain my thoughts a little more clearly to you. sorry mate your wrong, i can tolerate somebody slating a player for being a useless sack of shit on the pitch, the moment somebody brings the colour of the skin or the sexuality of player into it it has crossed a line and become more than just a griping fan and moved into illegal territory, as fans we have a duty to police ourselves and if somebody does move into that territory it should be reported straight away, there is even a number you can text if you felt you couldnt just tell a steward, there is no room in the game for discrimination, most reasonable people get it I agree with you but where do you draw the line? You draw the line at racism and sexuality - but what about people with ginger hair or big noses? I am not trying to be flippant here I am just trying to say that verbal abuse is verbal abuse. Just because some forms of verbal abuse are now illegal does not mean to say that other forms are acceptable. Are we self policing on the grounds of illegality or on the grounds of offensiveness. Who gets to decide what is offensive? If you are going to call in the stewards for racist/homophobic abuse does that include slating the Welsh/Scots/Irish as well. You and I both know that this is by definition racial abuse and therefore illegal but I am not so sure this gets reported to stewards in the same way. In my original response I was trying to say that I am not going to police every insult or acts of abuse at a football match. I go to football to be entertained and not to rescue humanity. At the match I am a little more tolerant of abuse because I think people get caught up in the situation and therefore there should be some flexibility. If someone calls someone a 'black ****' is that worse than calling someone an 'irish *****' and if it is a single, frustrated outburst should the guy be thrown out of the ground? I don't like to hear someone being called a 'black ***' but I have no opinion on someone being called an 'irish ***'. Someone using the N-word offends me absolutely. That makes me a hypocrite and that is why I think these issues are a little more nuanced and need a bit more debate.
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Post by potterburt on Jul 15, 2021 15:21:52 GMT
It’s not a race war it’s the media vs everyone No one has said that there is a ‘race war’ and if you feel there is a war between the media and the people then so be it. But that can’t be used as a comment as to the OP and reason of this thread in asking what can be done to tackle Racism in football can it? If you don’t see / believe that racism exists, fair enough. I’m not even going to warrant watching that YouTube video of what is likely some sort of opinionated poor attempt at zeitgeist-eye-opening / bedroom broadcasting. What’s is your point on racism that you are trying to make here zerps? That we can choose as to what media we consume and where we consume it? If so - then yeah sure but that’s for a different thread. You said earlier ‘the vast majority aren’t racist but the media are for ‘exaggerating’? The vast majority of world leaders aren’t dictatorial tyrants but when the media, campaign groups and people try to make the world aware of, put a stop to and to prevent genocide - does that mean it’s media that’s actually performing genocide?
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 15, 2021 15:22:24 GMT
What about the myriad racist posts all over social media? Or is that being over exaggerated by left wing propaganda sheets like the Daily Mail? Are you just going to ignore the very valid point made then? - Rashford graffiti wasn't racist but is repeatedly being bundled in with the racism narrative in headlines and stories. Also one idiot with a spray can was outnumbered by about 300 to 1 by people who turned up to support Rashford and leave goodwill messages - Guardian analysed 600,000 twitter posts aimed at England players and found 44 were racist - an online hate monitoring group analysed 100 racist Instagram posts and identified 5 as from the UK - Premier League says 70% of racist hatred comes from abroad - very often the abuse comes from recently created, anonymous accounts with few followers - in Sancho's statement he went to great pains to emphasise that it was a tiny minority who were abusive, yet that section has been omitted from almost all the reporting of it As usual of course when making a point like this one has to go to great lengths to emphasise racism is abhorrent, any racism is too much, it's a problem that must be dealt with, would never belittle the experiences of the players etc. But there are influential people out there who are particularly invested in whipping this issue up into a divisive panic.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 15:23:04 GMT
I don’t think banning the racists from attending football matches is enough. Name and shame them.I also think using some form of ID to open a Twitter account for example is a good idea. Bit like a sex offenders register? I like that idea. Employers could use it to filter out scumbags when people are applying for jobs. Social media firms could refuse to let you join if you’re on it. On the face of it yes. But be very careful what you wish for. Who decides who and for what they should go onto the register. That innocent little welsh, Irish, Scottish or indeed English joke you posted on facebook a decade ago could come back to haunt you.
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 15:24:46 GMT
It’s not a race war it’s the media vs everyone No one has said that there is a ‘race war’ and if you feel there is a war between the media and the people then so be it. But that can’t be used as a comment as to the OP and reason of this thread in asking what can be done to tackle Racism in football can it? If you don’t see / believe that racism exists, fair enough. I’m not even going to warrant watching that YouTube video of what is likely some sort of opinionated poor attempt at zeitgeist-eye-opening / bedroom broadcasting. What’s is your point on racism that you are trying to make here zerps? That we can choose as to what media we consume and where we consume it? If so - then yeah sure but that’s for a different thread. You said earlier ‘the vast majority aren’t racist but the media are for ‘exaggerating’? The vast majority of world leaders aren’t dictatorial tyrants but when the media, campaign groups and people try to make the world aware of, put a stop to and to prevent genocide - does that mean it’s media that’s actually performing genocide? Point is…….. People are getting upset about media lies. Nobody is saying racism doesn’t exist. But nobody wants to question why the media are falsely reporting it? How does that work?
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Post by zerps on Jul 15, 2021 15:26:17 GMT
What about the myriad racist posts all over social media? Or is that being over exaggerated by left wing propaganda sheets like the Daily Mail? Are you just going to ignore the very valid point made then? - Rashford graffiti wasn't racist but is repeatedly being bundled in with the racism narrative in headlines and stories. Also one idiot with a spray can was outnumbered by about 300 to 1 by people who turned up to support Rashford and leave goodwill messages - Guardian analysed 600,000 twitter posts aimed at England players and found 44 were racist - an online hate monitoring group analysed 100 racist Instagram posts and identified 5 as from the UK - Premier League says 70% of racist hatred comes from abroad - very often the abuse comes from recently created, anonymous accounts with few followers - in Sancho's statement he went to great pains to emphasise that it was a tiny minority who were abusive, yet that section has been omitted from almost all the reporting of it As usual of course when making a point like this one has to go to great lengths to emphasise racism is abhorrent, any racism is too much, it's a problem that must be dealt with, would never belittle the experiences of the players etc. But there are influential people out there who are particularly invested in whipping this issue up into a divisive panic. For some reason mate - people don’t want to hear it. The best thing they can do is call us racist then the circle is complete.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 15:32:15 GMT
It’s not a race war it’s the media vs everyone No one has said that there is a ‘race war’ and if you feel there is a war between the media and the people then so be it. But that can’t be used as a comment as to the OP and reason of this thread in asking what can be done to tackle Racism in football can it? If you don’t see / believe that racism exists, fair enough. I’m not even going to warrant watching that YouTube video of what is likely some sort of opinionated poor attempt at zeitgeist-eye-opening / bedroom broadcasting.
What’s is your point on racism that you are trying to make here zerps? That we can choose as to what media we consume and where we consume it? If so - then yeah sure but that’s for a different thread. You said earlier ‘the vast majority aren’t racist but the media are for ‘exaggerating’? The vast majority of world leaders aren’t dictatorial tyrants but when the media, campaign groups and people try to make the world aware of, put a stop to and to prevent genocide - does that mean it’s media that’s actually performing genocide? I have never seen Zerps say racism doesn't exist. Might have missed it but I highly doubt that. And if you are not prepared to watch a video of someone with a potentially differing opinion to yourself then I am not sure how credible you are to debate this. I've watched a few of this guys videos and in some he is way off beam to the point of WTF. In others like this one he makes some pretty basic but valid points. You can't live in an echo chamber only hearing things you believe to be right.
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Post by potterburt on Jul 15, 2021 15:36:32 GMT
No one has said that there is a ‘race war’ and if you feel there is a war between the media and the people then so be it. But that can’t be used as a comment as to the OP and reason of this thread in asking what can be done to tackle Racism in football can it? If you don’t see / believe that racism exists, fair enough. I’m not even going to warrant watching that YouTube video of what is likely some sort of opinionated poor attempt at zeitgeist-eye-opening / bedroom broadcasting. What’s is your point on racism that you are trying to make here zerps? That we can choose as to what media we consume and where we consume it? If so - then yeah sure but that’s for a different thread. You said earlier ‘the vast majority aren’t racist but the media are for ‘exaggerating’? The vast majority of world leaders aren’t dictatorial tyrants but when the media, campaign groups and people try to make the world aware of, put a stop to and to prevent genocide - does that mean it’s media that’s actually performing genocide? Point is…….. People are getting upset about media lies. Nobody is saying racism doesn’t exist. But nobody wants to question why the media are falsely reporting it? How does that work? People aren’t getting upset over media lies, people are getting upset over racism and that there is evidently still so much to be done. The OP was asking ” but what do we do about racism in the game? Kick it out isn't effective,Taking the knee isn't effective, Do we all have to stand up and start to call people out? Not just in football but in society as a whole?” No one on here has really been discussing or scrutinising the reporting from the media other than yourself. We are trying to ask ourselves ‘what we can do more?’ Bringing media lies into the discussion is just sidetracking the subject into realms that are not part of the question and don’t offer any solutions, suggestions or analysis as to what to do about Racism in the game.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jul 15, 2021 15:40:13 GMT
What about the myriad racist posts all over social media? Or is that being over exaggerated by left wing propaganda sheets like the Daily Mail? Are you just going to ignore the very valid point made then? - Rashford graffiti wasn't racist but is repeatedly being bundled in with the racism narrative in headlines and stories. Also one idiot with a spray can was outnumbered by about 300 to 1 by people who turned up to support Rashford and leave goodwill messages - Guardian analysed 600,000 twitter posts aimed at England players and found 44 were racist - an online hate monitoring group analysed 100 racist Instagram posts and identified 5 as from the UK - Premier League says 70% of racist hatred comes from abroad - very often the abuse comes from recently created, anonymous accounts with few followers - in Sancho's statement he went to great pains to emphasise that it was a tiny minority who were abusive, yet that section has been omitted from almost all the reporting of it As usual of course when making a point like this one has to go to great lengths to emphasise racism is abhorrent, any racism is too much, it's a problem that must be dealt with, would never belittle the experiences of the players etc. But there are influential people out there who are particularly invested in whipping this issue up into a divisive panic. I try not to get wound up on subjects like this and understand that it sells papers but the size of the problem for me is almost irrelevant. If this happened to my child I wouldn't care about the size of the problem or it being the minority. Now it won't happen to my child but I feel I'm right to feel as appalled as I do even though it's not happening that much.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 15:40:53 GMT
Point is…….. People are getting upset about media lies. Nobody is saying racism doesn’t exist. But nobody wants to question why the media are falsely reporting it? How does that work? People aren’t getting upset over media lies, people are getting upset over racism and that there is evidently still so much to be done. The OP was asking ” but what do we do about racism in the game? Kick it out isn't effective,Taking the knee isn't effective, Do we all have to stand up and start to call people out? Not just in football but in society as a whole?” No one on here has really been discussing or scrutinising the reporting from the media other than yourself. We are trying to ask ourselves ‘what we can do more?’ Bringing media lies into the discussion is just sidetracking the subject into realms that are not part of the question and don’t offer any solutions, suggestions or analysis as to what to do about Racism in the game. We can stop the media talking so much shit. That will definitely help.
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Post by potterburt on Jul 15, 2021 15:41:33 GMT
No one has said that there is a ‘race war’ and if you feel there is a war between the media and the people then so be it. But that can’t be used as a comment as to the OP and reason of this thread in asking what can be done to tackle Racism in football can it? If you don’t see / believe that racism exists, fair enough. I’m not even going to warrant watching that YouTube video of what is likely some sort of opinionated poor attempt at zeitgeist-eye-opening / bedroom broadcasting.
What’s is your point on racism that you are trying to make here zerps? That we can choose as to what media we consume and where we consume it? If so - then yeah sure but that’s for a different thread. You said earlier ‘the vast majority aren’t racist but the media are for ‘exaggerating’? The vast majority of world leaders aren’t dictatorial tyrants but when the media, campaign groups and people try to make the world aware of, put a stop to and to prevent genocide - does that mean it’s media that’s actually performing genocide? I have never seen Zerps say racism doesn't exist. Might have missed it but I highly doubt that. And if you are not prepared to watch a video of someone with a potentially differing opinion to yourself then I am not sure how credible you are to debate this. I've watched a few of this guys videos and in some he is way off beam to the point of WTF. In others like this one he makes some pretty basic but valid points. You can't live in an echo chamber only hearing things you believe to be right. The media reporting on recent events is irrelevant as to the point of this thread. Don’t worry about my credibility to debate the subject any more than your own and anyone else’s and I haven’t once said that I live in an echo chamber and only hear things I believe. It’s interesting to see though that you’ve made all of those assumption as to who I am, how I live, think and navigate the world. 👍🏼
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