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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jul 12, 2021 21:02:56 GMT
We’d been 2nd best for 25 mins of the first half and clearly needed to mix it up no longer than 60 mins Hindsight is 20/20 If they hadn’t scored that spawny goal Gareth is a genius Disagree. Not hindsight, they were very poor 2nd half
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 12, 2021 21:03:36 GMT
Typical knuckledraggers that seem to be attracted to English football coupled with a big post covid blowout. Looks like the police completely dropped the ball too and just let people run riot. Either way, not a great look for a country which is looking at a 2030 World Cup bid. get stuffed lammy. I wouldn’t let us host anything till we get our house in order. We don’t deserve it.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 12, 2021 21:05:44 GMT
I'm not suggesting they should have got "stuck in" , I am suggesting they should have at least graced Wembley with their presence...... Yep. You are right. It was definitely a case of the thin blue line last night. I once went to the Rome derby a few years back and witnessed the Italian version of policing. Pretty impressive use of the Water Cannon I must say, which is exactly what was needed last night I’m afraid, although they should not of let it get to that stage. Couldn’t agree more though can you imagine the whining on social media about Police being heavy handed with a few heavily edited videos that people would be treating as the gospel.
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Post by colnepotter on Jul 12, 2021 21:19:19 GMT
Yep. You are right. It was definitely a case of the thin blue line last night. I once went to the Rome derby a few years back and witnessed the Italian version of policing. Pretty impressive use of the Water Cannon I must say, which is exactly what was needed last night I’m afraid, although they should not of let it get to that stage. Couldn’t agree more though can you imagine the whining on social media about Police being heavy handed with a few heavily edited videos that people would be treating as the gospel. Spot on. Sadly very much a case of ‘you reap what you sow’; long gone are the days when we had a Police FORCE. This is the Police SERVICE in all it’s glory. My train got into Liverpool Street at just after 2pm yesterday. It was immediately obvious - even that far from Wembley - that many thousands of goons were heading into town to cause havoc, and so it continued; everywhere we went. Red flashing lights hours and hours before kickoff, but seemingly very little was done to head it off.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 12, 2021 21:37:11 GMT
Couldn’t agree more though can you imagine the whining on social media about Police being heavy handed with a few heavily edited videos that people would be treating as the gospel. Spot on. Sadly very much a case of ‘you reap what you sow’; long gone are the days when we had a Police FORCE. This is the Police SERVICE in all it’s glory. My train got into Liverpool Street at just after 2pm yesterday. It was immediately obvious - even that far from Wembley - that many thousands of goons were heading into town to cause havoc, and so it continued; everywhere we went. Red flashing lights hours and hours before kickoff, but seemingly very little was done to head it off. What we have has been created by a society including politicians who are intent on slagging off the police and who would rather in some cases favour a criminal than an officer trying to uphold the law (yes their are always going to be the minority of bad ones). We have a huge underclass who have no morals or decency who want to do the minimum amount of work and just want to take, who’d rather film someone on their phone being assaulted than go to help them out. Who are more bothered by there popularity on social media than wanting to do the right thing. It’s nothing to do with race and everything to do with how someone’s been raised. There’s a feeling of entitlement amongst our young and a total lack of respect which starts at a very early age and is in its 2nd / 3rd generation now and it won’t get any better unless there’s radical change.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 12, 2021 21:39:46 GMT
Shakespeare.
Julius Caesar Act 4 Scene 3
Brutus
“There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures.”
Bloody Italians.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 12, 2021 22:06:58 GMT
I wouldn’t let us host anything till we get our house in order. We don’t deserve it. This is interesting and there wasn't too much focus on it at the time but it was reported that the same thing happened for the Denmark game but obviously on a much smaller scale but it might explain why so many turned up thinking they'd have a decent chance of getting in for the next match too. Absolutely scandalous behaviour from the FA/Wembley if true. inews.co.uk/news/england-vs-denmark-wembley-stadium-fans-without-ticket-euro-2020-semi-final-1093248
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 12, 2021 22:14:12 GMT
I wouldn’t let us host anything till we get our house in order. We don’t deserve it. This is interesting and there wasn't too much focus on it at the time but it was reported that the same thing happened for the Denmark game but obviously on a much smaller scale but it might explain why so many turned up thinking they'd have a decent chance of getting in for the next match too. Absolutely scandalous behaviour from the FA/Wembley if true. inews.co.uk/news/england-vs-denmark-wembley-stadium-fans-without-ticket-euro-2020-semi-final-1093248 Completely pathetic. Has Covid made us forget everything we've learned about how to handle these things?
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Post by kustokie on Jul 12, 2021 22:15:58 GMT
the stats don't bear that out, he gave us 50% more free kicks than he gave them (18-12).... and he booked 5 of them to 1 of ours - i thought he was even handed. Unusually for me but i saw nothing to blame the ref about. The reason for those stats is that they were dirty as fuck There were some big calls he didn't give us. They were rough and had four yellow cards to England’s one. We should have been more aggressive and given a good as we got.
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Post by kustokie on Jul 12, 2021 22:19:25 GMT
Hindsight is 20/20 If they hadn’t scored that spawny goal Gareth is a genius Disagree. Not hindsight, they were very poor 2nd half Let’s face it, they were knackered and Italy paced themselves for to play for 90 mins.
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Post by banksisgod on Jul 12, 2021 22:20:09 GMT
Here's another quote for you.... "The thing that allows evil to triumph is when good people do nothing" John Stuart Mills.
There is a responsibility on everyone who knows a xenophobe or a racist to call them out. Otherwise, the criticism of the behaviour of football fans from former "Iron Curtain" countries - who are generations behind in terms of development - rings very hollow indeed. Whether you like it not (or even care),the international reputation of ENGLAND (not the U.K., ENGLAND) is already in the gutter post Brexit. Last nights "performance" puts the tin lid on it.
No-one who was involved in the utterly disgraceful activities yesterday, and last night, should be allowed to get away with it. If they do, it validates their behaviour, and invites them to do it again. They are your countrymen, and they are damaging your good name. What are you going to do about it?
....and please, blaming the inactivity of the police is a bit lame. I have to say that, as an outsider looking in, the exclusionist "atmosphere" created by Johnson, Reece-Mogg, Farage and others over the past five years has a lot to answer for.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 12, 2021 22:25:32 GMT
The reason for those stats is that they were dirty as fuck There were some big calls he didn't give us. They were rough and had four yellow cards to England’s one. We should have been more aggressive and given a good as we got. I just think they sussed early doors what the ref would let them get away with and they exploited it to the full. The ref also had Sterling v Denmark in mind. There was one in the 2nd half that could easily have been VARed but they let it go...
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jul 12, 2021 22:31:03 GMT
They were rough and had four yellow cards to England’s one. We should have been more aggressive and given a good as we got. I just think they sussed early doors what the ref would let them get away with and they exploited it to the full. The ref also had Sterling v Denmark in mind. There was one in the 2nd half that could easily have been VARed but they let it go... Agree And it was always likely after Denmark
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 12, 2021 22:55:38 GMT
How’s that the fault of the Police though? They do what they’re told to do. It’ll be interesting to see how much press coverage this Officers heroics receive. The problem nowadays is that if the Police get stuck in they get hammered for being heavy handed and if they don’t they get criticised. However one things for sure if there’d been carnage last night and lots of robust policing you’d be one of the first to have a pop saying the fans were just having a laugh and the press and social media would be doing similar. I'm not suggesting they should have got "stuck in" , I am suggesting they should have at least graced Wembley with their presence...... That’s the problem when the likes of G4S take on the security for such events. People with next to no training dealing with idiots who won’t take no for an answer. I guess that’s what happens when you cut 15000 Police officers and try to Police events on the cheap. So the blame for this falls on the government and Wembley Stadium I’m afraid,
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 13, 2021 2:32:52 GMT
I'm not suggesting they should have got "stuck in" , I am suggesting they should have at least graced Wembley with their presence...... That’s the problem when the likes of G4S take on the security for such events. People with next to no training dealing with idiots who won’t take no for an answer. I guess that’s what happens when you cut 15000 Police officers and try to Police events on the cheap. So the blame for this falls on the government and Wembley Stadium I’m afraid, The local constabulary have a responsibility under common law to police a football match where there is likely to be disorder, that has always been the case and has nothing to do with the owners of the stadium in question whether it be Wembley or Gresty Road. Away from the parameters of the privately owned land, the fact that Wembley Way and the surrounding streets were already rammed with people drinking several hours before kick off should have been a warning, a security area was also breached a good two hours before kick off. If they weren’t there initially they should have been drafted in using police intelligence alone. And you’ll get no argument from me in blaming the government for police cuts over the years, none whatsoever…..
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 13, 2021 4:32:55 GMT
That’s the problem when the likes of G4S take on the security for such events. People with next to no training dealing with idiots who won’t take no for an answer. I guess that’s what happens when you cut 15000 Police officers and try to Police events on the cheap. So the blame for this falls on the government and Wembley Stadium I’m afraid, The local constabulary have a responsibility under common law to police a football match where there is likely to be disorder, that has always been the case and has nothing to do with the owners of the stadium in question whether it be Wembley or Gresty Road. Away from the parameters of the privately owned land, the fact that Wembley Way and the surrounding streets were already rammed with people drinking several hours before kick off should have been a warning, a security area was also breached a good two hours before kick off. If they weren’t there initially they should have been drafted in using police intelligence alone. And you’ll get no argument from me in blaming the government for police cuts over the years, none whatsoever….. I guess ultimately though unless you were there in a policing capacity or know the full reasons around the policing or lack of policing numbers at the event we’ll never know. All I do know is that there’s been plenty of threads and posts over the years accusing the polices presence or numbers as being excessive and when they deal with issues “robustly” as being heavy handed. It appears to me like they can’t win. If there were more police there last night do you think it would have calmed the situation or made it worse because I’m not conviced just “being there” would have stopped it and you just know that the media would have portrayed them as being the bad guys and that the fans were just having good natured banter which the police “ruined.” like at Bristol or the numerous other protests this year. I do appreciate that a lot of this is political point scoring in which the police are being used as pawns and to take the flack for the government but what can they do? This though is what happens when the Police become a service and start getting told “we pay your wages” by some idiot who doesn’t even pay council tax and what about those that have been saying to defund the Police isn’t security and not Police at Wembley what they wanted?
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Post by heworksardtho on Jul 13, 2021 5:54:50 GMT
They think by sticking a high viz on some one they automatically become a security person
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Post by zerps on Jul 13, 2021 6:26:02 GMT
Hindsight is 20/20 If they hadn’t scored that spawny goal Gareth is a genius Disagree. Not hindsight, they were very poor 2nd half Were you moaning when we were winning one nil?
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Post by Gods on Jul 13, 2021 6:33:05 GMT
They think by sticking a high viz on some one they automatically become a security person I know and realistically you'd have to be nuts to put your body on the line for a tenner an hour when 50 or 60 pissed up fat blokes from Bermondsey are barging their way past you! Don't they have to do something with the set-up at Wembley? I've been the American Football there 3 or 4 times in recent years and it seemed to be the case that all you had to do was wave your ticket vaguely in the direction of someone and navigate a very wide bag check run by some school children and you were in. Add in the fact there were 30,000 empty seats on Sunday and presumably you could take the seat of your choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2021 6:42:14 GMT
Spot on. Sadly very much a case of ‘you reap what you sow’; long gone are the days when we had a Police FORCE. This is the Police SERVICE in all it’s glory. My train got into Liverpool Street at just after 2pm yesterday. It was immediately obvious - even that far from Wembley - that many thousands of goons were heading into town to cause havoc, and so it continued; everywhere we went. Red flashing lights hours and hours before kickoff, but seemingly very little was done to head it off. What we have has been created by a society including politicians who are intent on slagging off the police and who would rather in some cases favour a criminal than an officer trying to uphold the law (yes their are always going to be the minority of bad ones). We have a huge underclass who have no morals or decency who want to do the minimum amount of work and just want to take, who’d rather film someone on their phone being assaulted than go to help them out. Who are more bothered by there popularity on social media than wanting to do the right thing. It’s nothing to do with race and everything to do with how someone’s been raised. There’s a feeling of entitlement amongst our young and a total lack of respect which starts at a very early age and is in its 2nd / 3rd generation now and it won’t get any better unless there’s radical change. Spot On ! Totally agree Cobham.
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Post by Northy on Jul 13, 2021 6:44:23 GMT
Disagree. Not hindsight, they were very poor 2nd half Were you moaning when we were winning one nil? I was 😁
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Post by zerps on Jul 13, 2021 6:48:55 GMT
Were you moaning when we were winning one nil? I was 😁 😂
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Post by hardcastle on Jul 13, 2021 10:18:13 GMT
We must know reading this board that the moaners get their excuses in early. They can always say 'told you so'. Optimists have to stick their heads above the parapet where it can get shot off.
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Post by alsagerstokie on Jul 13, 2021 11:54:37 GMT
I think most people on here to a ponit regarding drinking at a match etc are sensible.
These Goons just cant handle a beer without causing trouble. They may wear an England shirt or flag but they are not England supporters.
Ive seen what Michelle Owen has had to say and its awful and she shouldn't have to put up with what she did.
As for other people. An example that Bulding Manager with an Estate Agents who now claims his twitter was hacked. Also gone runnning to daddy because he might loose his job. Some secrect racist people out there. A bloke working for a respectable company yet behind closed doors he clearly does unacceptable things.
Unfortunately there is just alot of pond life around who think they can do what they want when they want.
Some think they can sit in front of a screen and hurle abuse thinking they wont get caught.
Imagine saying to Adam Bone (Building Manger) i want you to take a penalty if you miss were going to abuse you for days. He would be the first to say that isnt acceptable. Alot of these that caused trouble will be running to muummy and daddys now asking what they should do.
Unfortunately some will be 40 plus and should know better but clearly dont.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 13, 2021 12:09:18 GMT
Disagree. Not hindsight, they were very poor 2nd half Were you moaning when we were winning one nil? I got the same feeling I got when we scored v Croatia in 2018 semi. A modified mental aware we had a long 80 odd minutes ahead.
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Post by zerps on Jul 13, 2021 12:28:47 GMT
Were you moaning when we were winning one nil? I got the same feeling I got when we scored v Croatia in 2018 semi. A modified mental aware we had a long 80 odd minutes ahead. I was terrified at half time but that’s just normal
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Post by leicspotter on Jul 13, 2021 12:37:06 GMT
I’ve never seen such a bunch of whoppers as leaving Wembley last night. A lad was knocked out cold in front of us, cars smashed up, other random fans being constantly abused. Constant fighting, bottles and half full cans being thrown into random crowds of people. Me and my mate couldn’t believe how many dickheads were about. I’d have hated to be there with my family and I’ll take them to Stoke games. This was next level dickheadery. Couple that with the racist abuse online afterwards and maybe England fans don’t deserve to win anything. It did piss me off tbh. Zerps, did you stay for the presentations or leave after pens? Only asking 'cos we stayed on and when we left all seemed pretty quiet and I have been surprised (maybe not really) to see and read about all the trouble Wembley way was carnage from around 3pm and we said then that it felt as if the organisers had totally underestimated what was likely to happen in terms of numbers at the stadium so early.
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Post by zerps on Jul 13, 2021 12:43:48 GMT
I’ve never seen such a bunch of whoppers as leaving Wembley last night. A lad was knocked out cold in front of us, cars smashed up, other random fans being constantly abused. Constant fighting, bottles and half full cans being thrown into random crowds of people. Me and my mate couldn’t believe how many dickheads were about. I’d have hated to be there with my family and I’ll take them to Stoke games. This was next level dickheadery. Couple that with the racist abuse online afterwards and maybe England fans don’t deserve to win anything. It did piss me off tbh. Zerps, did you stay for the presentations or leave after pens? Only asking 'cos we stayed on and when we left all seemed pretty quiet and I have been surprised (maybe not really) to see and read about all the trouble Wembley way was carnage from around 3pm and we said then that it felt as if the organisers had totally underestimated what was likely to happen in terms of numbers at the stadium so early. We left straight after Saka’s penalty mate It was bedlam
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jul 13, 2021 15:49:10 GMT
Disagree. Not hindsight, they were very poor 2nd half Were you moaning when we were winning one nil? Obviously not in the first 20 mins. But after 30 mins you could tell it wasn’t great and (as my point) by half time it was clear something needed to change. Not hindsight just observations
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 13, 2021 15:58:07 GMT
I cant imagine this country will be invited to host a major football tournament for a good while.
I find the Police's initial statement that there were more police on duty than at any other game in the tournament truly bizarre. They refused to say how many btw.
Well, yes!....surely that would be expected anyway especially as there were hardly any fans allowed to attend most of the other games and this was the biggest game of the tournament which involved England!
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