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Post by nottsover60 on Jul 10, 2021 8:40:30 GMT
The thing is that although there is no doubt Derby tried to hide their overspend by using amortisation in a different way from the rest of the league they did nothing illegal or against Football League rules. The worst they can be accused of is behaving against the spirit of the competition but I am not sure that could be given a stronger punishment without Derby appealing and winning the appeal. If the League wanted all clubs to use a certain method then it should say so in the rules. As in the case of selling their ground there is no doubt that Derby have tried to circumvent financial fair play but it has to be said that they have been very cleverer than the Football League (who by the way are run by a chartered accountant) in not doing anything which would be found illegal in a court of law. Apparently the method they used for amortisation is used in other businesses and is perfectly acceptable. I think back to a conversation I had in January with someone involved in Derby's finances. I was bemoaning the fact that Stoke were unable to buy players despite the Coates family having the cash to invest in what is their business. The response I got was that they weren't creative enough in their accounting, there were ways they could do it. It’s mid evening over here on the Fourth so…draw your own conclusions and I will apologize tomorrow. Surely the point your making is a bunch of dodgy accountants thought they could get away with something, your friends say we should do the same thing. Derby get caught and…what? We’re still wrong? Sorry, only just noticed your reply. Firstly they are not dodgy accountants. They have done nothing illegal and with everything they have done they have been transparent with the Football League who I know for a fact have initially approved everything Derby have done. Rick Parry is a qualified accountant and understands what has been going on. Only when other clubs have complained have the League then decided to investigate. I have it on very good authority that should they try to punish Derby they will have a very difficult job because the club can point to the approval they received. For four years Derby have amortised their players in the different way. Their accounts have always been signed off without any question by the Football League. Only when other clubs pointed out that Derby were using this method to cover breaking FFP did the League question it. I would say Derby's accountants have done a thorough and efficient job to help their clients run their business in the best way for them. They have not tried to hide anything but have done their best for the business which employs them. On the other hand the Football League have not been diligent at all. I am told that it would have been a half hour job for Derby to change their amortisation in line with other clubs but no one ever asked them to or questioned why they were using that method. There is no doubt Derby have broken FFP but all this episode shows is how poorly structured and thought out the rules governing FFP are. I find it incredible that in a competition with regular movement of clubs between divisions there are 3 different sets of FFP rules - one for the Premier, one for the Championship and one for Divisions 1 and 2. I also find it difficult to understand why a chairman of a club is not allowed to invest as much of his own money into a club as long as it is not an interest accruing loan or that the owner takes out more than he puts in through bonuses.
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Post by march4 on Jul 10, 2021 8:50:06 GMT
FFP needs to go and it needs to go immediately.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 20, 2021 13:14:31 GMT
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Post by wakeypotter on Jul 20, 2021 13:18:45 GMT
If that had been us we would have been relegated
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 20, 2021 13:23:08 GMT
If that had been us we would have been relegated Agreed
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 20, 2021 14:03:35 GMT
I’m almost starting to feel sorry for them……….almost!!
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Post by Northy on Jul 20, 2021 14:04:55 GMT
Lee Gregory.... come on down
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Post by markby on Jul 20, 2021 15:47:58 GMT
There is no doubt Derby have broken FFP but all this episode shows is how poorly structured and thought out the rules governing FFP are. I find it incredible that in a competition with regular movement of clubs between divisions there are 3 different sets of FFP rules - one for the Premier, one for the Championship and one for Divisions 1 and 2. I also find it difficult to understand why a chairman of a club is not allowed to invest as much of his own money into a club as long as it is not an interest accruing loan or that the owner takes out more than he puts in through bonuses. I am in no position to question your earlier comments on the probity (or otherwise) of DCFC's accounting practices.
But I must say, I find it difficult to understand why you cannot understand how/why there should be different sets of FFP Rules depending on the division.
Take the PL. It has 100 x times(?) the revenue of the other three divisions combined, the clubs are all financially stable (i.e. any PL team which did get into trouble could easily find a buyer), indeed many clubs have actually made a profit in given seasons, or at least broken even.
Whereas the Championship is entirely different, not least because the clubs are virtually all losing money. Which in turn creates a huge temptation for them to spend money they don't have, in order to get promotion to the "Promised Land", which at a stroke will repay itself. Of course, they can't all get promoted and besides, it's still not guaranteed to work for those few who do make it (see eg QPR). Sadly, such clubs need to be "saved from themselves".
And with Lge's One and Two, it is different again, where most clubs are just trying to survive, never mind get promoted to the Championship, while the PL is a distant dream. In those circumstances, any benevolent owner who, assuming he genuinely has it, is willing to put his own money into his club should be encouraged, not discouraged.
All of which is like eg the rules of the road for driving. When passing a school on a residential street, it is entirely right that motorists should observe a 20 mph speed limit (Lges One and Two).
While the same drivers in the same cars shouild be allowed to do 50 mph on a country A Road (Championship), before being free to get up to 70 mph when joining the motorway (PL).
Which is not to say that the present arrangements are sound - they plainly aren't, esp eg parachute payments, or the "Fit & Proper" rules. But the same financial regulation eg for Man City as for Rochdale? Sorry, but that's like treating Tesco the same as your local corner shop.
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Post by chad on Jul 20, 2021 15:55:50 GMT
Ravel Morrison 😊😊😊😊😊😊
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 20, 2021 16:47:07 GMT
Dare I say it in their predicament someone like McClean would probably be a good short term option....
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Post by hooftastic on Jul 20, 2021 16:51:33 GMT
Quite a good summary if anyone wants to watch a video on it (and general FFP rules)
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Post by nottsover60 on Jul 20, 2021 22:07:56 GMT
There is no doubt Derby have broken FFP but all this episode shows is how poorly structured and thought out the rules governing FFP are. I find it incredible that in a competition with regular movement of clubs between divisions there are 3 different sets of FFP rules - one for the Premier, one for the Championship and one for Divisions 1 and 2. I also find it difficult to understand why a chairman of a club is not allowed to invest as much of his own money into a club as long as it is not an interest accruing loan or that the owner takes out more than he puts in through bonuses. I am in no position to question your earlier comments on the probity (or otherwise) of DCFC's accounting practices.
But I must say, I find it difficult to understand why you cannot understand how/why there should be different sets of FFP Rules depending on the division.
Take the PL. It has 100 x times(?) the revenue of the other three divisions combined, the clubs are all financially stable (i.e. any PL team which did get into trouble could easily find a buyer), indeed many clubs have actually made a profit in given seasons, or at least broken even.
Whereas the Championship is entirely different, not least because the clubs are virtually all losing money. Which in turn creates a huge temptation for them to spend money they don't have, in order to get promotion to the "Promised Land", which at a stroke will repay itself. Of course, they can't all get promoted and besides, it's still not guaranteed to work for those few who do make it (see eg QPR). Sadly, such clubs need to be "saved from themselves".
And with Lge's One and Two, it is different again, where most clubs are just trying to survive, never mind get promoted to the Championship, while the PL is a distant dream. In those circumstances, any benevolent owner who, assuming he genuinely has it, is willing to put his own money into his club should be encouraged, not discouraged.
All of which is like eg the rules of the road for driving. When passing a school on a residential street, it is entirely right that motorists should observe a 20 mph speed limit (Lges One and Two).
While the same drivers in the same cars shouild be allowed to do 50 mph on a country A Road (Championship), before being free to get up to 70 mph when joining the motorway (PL).
Which is not to say that the present arrangements are sound - they plainly aren't, esp eg parachute payments, or the "Fit & Proper" rules. But the same financial regulation eg for Man City as for Rochdale? Sorry, but that's like treating Tesco the same as your local corner shop.
I agree 'clubs are all financially stable' in the Premier until they get relegated that is. Then because of the way they have been able to spend they have a sudden loss of income. For example I read somewhere I'm sure that the team who finish bottom of the Premier earn more from television money than the entire Football League. If parachute payments are abandoned that means that next season that club will have a massive loss of income, an expensively assembled squad and must comply with Championship FFP. On top of that their owner can suddenly not invest his own money something which is allowed in both the Premier League and Div 1 and 2. I can't see how that equates to speed limits at all. It would if the amount of money clubs could lose was different for each division but that's not what happens. In my opinion the difference in FFP rules between the Premier and the Championship makes it very difficult for a promoted club to avoid immediate relegation as their squad has been assembled on a lot lower a budget. This is leading to the clubs in the Premier being almost ringfenced against relegation and it is becoming an elite league. If a club owner could spend his own money to invest in players and FFP was only concerned with losses after that investment then it would mean there was more parity between the top of the Championship and the bottom of the Premier League. I understand this would mean clubs like Stoke had an advantage but the current rules seem to be a case of bringing everyone down to the level of the poorest. Arguably if a Championship club want to invest their owner's money in players they would do better to get relegated to division 1 buy a lot of players because they can in that division then get promoted. I just feel that there should be some consistency between the divisions. I understand that the Premier clubs get more money so should be allowed to spend more but surely a percentage of income rule for all clubs would be a fairer way of operating. It also seems crazy that, since Leicester and QPR got promoted after breaking FFP but got away with it because the Premier refused to dock them points, I am told that virtually every promoted club has broken the rules and just paid a small compensation to the Championship for doing so. You could argue that it is like the owners of bigger cars being allowed to drive faster on the same roads. It is not the fact that clubs earn more in the Premier League that puzzles me but that their is a different way of judging FFP. In 1 and 2 it's judged on wages, in the Championship it's judged on losses and I have no idea how it works in the Premier League. Does anyone ever get punished under FFP in that division? I don't see Newcastle finding it easy to find a buyer by the way.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 21, 2021 12:16:12 GMT
Looking like the new Bolton.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jul 21, 2021 12:37:03 GMT
They can still sign Vokes, Right?!...Please...
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jul 21, 2021 19:06:27 GMT
It's a long-shot, but I fancy him to surprise a few people under Rooney. I wonder if they'll sign Daniel Sturridge too. I still can't imagine they'll stay up...
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Post by ilikelamp on Jul 21, 2021 19:11:01 GMT
They’ve had 38 year old Phil jagielka on trial Desperate times
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 21, 2021 19:16:02 GMT
They’ve had 38 year old Phil jagielka on trial Desperate times Along with Sam Baldock,Sony Aluko,Richard Stearman and now Tom Carroll 🤔
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 19:23:49 GMT
Played a total of 140 games in his 'career'. What a waster. At this point, can you even describe him as "talented"?
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Post by 1948fitch on Jul 21, 2021 19:49:33 GMT
They’ve had 38 year old Phil jagielka on trial Desperate times Along with Sam Baldock,Sony Aluko,Richard Stearman and now Tom Carroll 🤔 Andy Carroll is available too
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 21, 2021 19:58:40 GMT
Along with Sam Baldock,Sony Aluko,Richard Stearman and now Tom Carroll 🤔 Andy Carroll is available too Yes mate I’m surprised he hasn’t turned up at Moor Farm also but there’s time yet😄
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Post by bolders on Jul 21, 2021 19:59:17 GMT
They’ve had 38 year old Phil jagielka on trial Desperate times Along with Sam Baldock,Sony Aluko,Richard Stearman and now Tom Carroll 🤔 Tom Carrol not a bad player to be fair, don’t know what happened at Swansea for them to terminate his contract
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jul 21, 2021 20:02:43 GMT
Along with Sam Baldock,Sony Aluko,Richard Stearman and now Tom Carroll 🤔 Tom Carrol not a bad player to be fair, don’t know what happened at Swansea for them to terminate his contract Yes he’s lost his way for sure
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Post by northernstokie on Jul 22, 2021 9:20:32 GMT
I've just looked for the odds for them to be relegated on sky bet and there not even on the list
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Post by dirtclod on Jul 23, 2021 14:35:44 GMT
Hopefully they lose every game and are relegated this year - they truly deserve to be the league doormat.
Stayed up at the expense of Wycombe via preferential treatment masked as "punishment." And I don't want to hear about it financially threatening "Wayne Rooney's Derby County"- look at what their shenanigans did to Wycombe. Wycombe didn't play well enough, but they also did nothing wrong.
Unlike many other cities, Derby has enough going on that some company or group of companies there could bankroll a phoenix club. It speaks volumes that none have stepped up to buy the current circus- sounds like they'd rather the trash be taken out first.
And I can't help but think that this would not have played out like it did had it been Stoke instead of Derby.
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Post by hyaduck on Jul 23, 2021 14:57:16 GMT
Tom Carrol not a bad player to be fair, don’t know what happened at Swansea for them to terminate his contract Yes he’s lost his way for sure Should get a map
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Post by daz2631 on Jul 24, 2021 22:11:54 GMT
Seen Rodney on sky Derby could be down before they start says he aint got enough players start season what a shame NOT
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jul 24, 2021 22:23:02 GMT
Seen Rodney on sky Derby could be down before they start says he aint got enough players start season what a shame NOT Who is Rodney?
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Post by chad on Jul 24, 2021 22:26:04 GMT
Seen Rodney on sky Derby could be down before they start says he aint got enough players start season what a shame NOT Who is Rodney? He’s Del Boys younger brother
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 24, 2021 22:27:12 GMT
Seen Rodney on sky Derby could be down before they start says he aint got enough players start season what a shame NOT Who is Rodney? He’s the one in the family who doesn’t shag grannies
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jul 24, 2021 22:31:19 GMT
Seen Rodney on sky Derby could be down before they start says he aint got enough players start season what a shame NOT Who is Rodney? Copperplate writing.
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