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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 15, 2021 9:52:18 GMT
I know nothing of the sort, it's been like that for years....... Nonsense. With the access via digital networks and devices that the media has to a population it has never been worse than it is now. Social media has brought out a number of trolls intent on causing as much hurt and destruction as possible. On the flip side there are a number of smaller, independent media outlets that are practicing proper journalism and seeking the truth where the MSM have long since traded for clickbaits and sensationalism. If most of them told me it was raining in my street I'd insist on opening the curtains and checking.......
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 15, 2021 10:48:15 GMT
You know full well the temperature has been ramped up massively this last couple of years and the behaviour of the MSM has become increasingly polarised and nefarious. The temperature has not been ramped up by the media over the last couple of years, it was ramped up by a police officer killing a handcuffed black guy in the States in full view of onlookers. There may well be a focus on race issues in the media now, but you can understand why. I doubt whether any one white person has any idea what it is like to live as a non-white in this country or several others. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm quite confident that the UK is one of the least racist countries in the world in comparison to many others, but that doesn't mean there aren't enormous strides that need to be taken still. To bring these into the light is not to shit-stir or cause unrest for their own means, it's pointing out the discrimination and prejudice that many of these people experience daily. The problem is the media don’t seem to want to concentrate on pushing equally important issues like - other forms of hate crime. - knife crime - the effect of covid on the mental health of our youngsters - male suicide - human rights in China Aren’t these equally in need of the same sort of attention. I have a friend who has a physical disability that has caused her to be mocked and verbally abused pretty much every day of her life. We speak often and she genuinly believes that no one cares about her issues because the only hate crime people are interested in is racism. How can it be right that she feels that way? Who fights for her? Racism of course is wrong but it feels like everything is being done to fight it (nothing wrong with that) but other victims are forgotten.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 10:50:36 GMT
So because I don't mention a particular paper, I potentially support or don't have a problem with the way that paper portrayed Raheem Sterling? OK... I am sure there is an expression for what you're trying here. It’s just a very curious omission in any discussion about the ills of the mainstream media in this country? Highlighting the Independent as demon in chief and not even mentioning The Sun seems ‘skewed’ to put it kindly. The Express and Mail wasn't good enough for you then? I'll remember this tactic next time you forget to mention something in a discussion and then claim you must support it because you didn't mention it. You're digging a hole here.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 10:59:02 GMT
Nonsense. With the access via digital networks and devices that the media has to a population it has never been worse than it is now. Social media has brought out a number of trolls intent on causing as much hurt and destruction as possible. On the flip side there are a number of smaller, independent media outlets that are practicing proper journalism and seeking the truth where the MSM have long since traded for clickbaits and sensationalism. If most of them told me it was raining in my street I'd insist on opening the curtains and checking....... I'll agree with your statement highlighted above. But I will add that there are just as many smaller outlets that are trading in the race baiting industry. There is a lot of money in it and it is doing irreparable harm to society. Racism is a scourge and it most definitely exists and warrants much attention. But have the few posts above highlighting the mass over exaggeration by the MSM not given you something to think about. The graffiti on Rashford's mural wasn't in fact racist it was just vile abuse. I never knew but assumed because of the media furore it was. What percentage of the tweets out of 500k were racist. Not the 90% the media was having us believe. Agendas are being pushed and its causing division. The very thing some of these idiots are claiming to resolve. They are liars.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2021 11:00:24 GMT
The temperature has not been ramped up by the media over the last couple of years, it was ramped up by a police officer killing a handcuffed black guy in the States in full view of onlookers. There may well be a focus on race issues in the media now, but you can understand why. I doubt whether any one white person has any idea what it is like to live as a non-white in this country or several others. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm quite confident that the UK is one of the least racist countries in the world in comparison to many others, but that doesn't mean there aren't enormous strides that need to be taken still. To bring these into the light is not to shit-stir or cause unrest for their own means, it's pointing out the discrimination and prejudice that many of these people experience daily. The problem is the media don’t seem to want to concentrate on pushing equally important issues like - other forms of hate crime. - knife crime - the effect of covid on the mental health of our youngsters - male suicide - human rights in China Aren’t these equally in need of the same sort of attention. I have a friend who has a physical disability that has caused her to be mocked verbally abused pretty much every day of her life. We speak often and she genuinly believes that no one cares about her issues because the only hate crime people are interested in is racism. How can that be right? Who fights for her? Racism of course is wrong but it feels like everything is being done to fight it (nothing wrong with that) but other victims are forgotten. I see plenty of coverage of other forms of hate crime (anti-Semitism wasn't out of the news for years recently, likewise anti-European immigrant and anti-Chinese abuse for obvious reasons) and there is rarely a day that passes without a reference to someone being stabbed somewhere in the country, usually London, so I don't think the media ignores those issues at all. Likewise, the long term effects of Covid on mental health are also covered regularly and extensively. I buy the Telegraph every day, there are articles about that and other aspects of Covid almost every day. I've no doubt you're right that some issues aren't given the same attention such as your friend's disability and the prejudice she faces. If we want the whole issue to go away (and I suspect that underpins a lot of the responses from some people - they just get frustrated about it being mentioned all the time, not least because they don't see it as much of a problem because they don't experience it themselves) then surely the better response would be not to deny there's a problem or respond to it dismissively, but to ask what can be done to solve it so that it does go away as an issue, rather than make out that the daily impact these people face (which I note you pointed out with regard to your friend - it is a daily issue for lots of people) is overblown/dramatised by the media? If you have a government that derides this stuff as gesture politics and doesn't take it seriously, then it's obviously going to send that kind of message out to the rest of the country and embolden the real racist nutjobs to react the way they do. The government knows what it's doing when it responds the way it does, it's shameful really from a racial harmony viewpoint, even if politically it's very successful, but that in itself says something about the country.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 11:06:16 GMT
You know full well the temperature has been ramped up massively this last couple of years and the behaviour of the MSM has become increasingly polarised and nefarious. The temperature has not been ramped up by the media over the last couple of years, it was ramped up by a police officer killing a handcuffed black guy in the States in full view of onlookers. There may well be a focus on race issues in the media now, but you can understand why. I doubt whether any one white person has any idea what it is like to live as a non-white in this country or several others. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm quite confident that the UK is one of the least racist countries in the world in comparison to many others, but that doesn't mean there aren't enormous strides that need to be taken still. To bring these into the light is not to shit-stir or cause unrest for their own means, it's pointing out the discrimination and prejudice that many of these people experience daily. Really. I spent my entire secondary school being accused of being a terrorist and all sorts of other shit on account of having Irish parents. Got into plenty of fights about it. Things are never as straight forward as they seem. The media is 100% causing major issues with the narratives they are pushing. If you really think all ethnic people in this country live in fear of their lives on a daily basis then I can't help you out of that belief. You're too far gone.
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Post by skip on Jul 15, 2021 11:09:32 GMT
The temperature has not been ramped up by the media over the last couple of years, it was ramped up by a police officer killing a handcuffed black guy in the States in full view of onlookers. There may well be a focus on race issues in the media now, but you can understand why. I doubt whether any one white person has any idea what it is like to live as a non-white in this country or several others. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm quite confident that the UK is one of the least racist countries in the world in comparison to many others, but that doesn't mean there aren't enormous strides that need to be taken still. To bring these into the light is not to shit-stir or cause unrest for their own means, it's pointing out the discrimination and prejudice that many of these people experience daily. The problem is the media don’t seem to want to concentrate on pushing equally important issues like - other forms of hate crime. - knife crime - the effect of covid on the mental health of our youngsters - male suicide - human rights in China Aren’t these equally in need of the same sort of attention. I have a friend who has a physical disability that has caused her to be mocked and verbally abused pretty much every day of her life. We speak often and she genuinly believes that no one cares about her issues because the only hate crime people are interested in is racism. How can it be right that she feels that way? Who fights for her? Racism of course is wrong but it feels like everything is being done to fight it (nothing wrong with that) but other victims are forgotten. All issues like the above are absolutely newsworthy and more importantly, in need of a great deal of discourse and action. The problem with racism in the UK, is that as a former Colonialist power, the UK is steeped in systemic racism (how can it not be when Commonwealth citizens were invited to move here in all good faith but the system didn't support them?) but the vast majority of the public don't want to discuss it, acknowledge it or help solve some of its long standing side effects. Taking the line that 'the UK isn't racist' doesn't solve anything, it simply serves to antagonise many, particularly if you're non-white and have suffered much more implicit and explicit racism than those that are white. The UK needs to works its way through and beyond that denial and then we can work towards a truly integrated society. Everyone I know that is black thinks that 'the UK isn't racist' is simply laughable. And just because I don't believe I'm racist doesn't mean I don't think there's a fuck load of work to be done. Nor does it mean I think I have all the answers. But pointing at other countries doesn't help either. If your garden is a shit tip, there's nothing to be gained at pointing over the fence and judging the state of your neighbours. Cobham - as a parent of two young lads, my primary concerns right now are precisely mental health and the pressures that Covid/lockdown has placed on our young, and knife crime being an almost 100% male problem. Ergo, male suicide too. We have plenty of time and energy between us to look deeply into all of the concerns you list above (but I'd say the Climate Emergency is missing of your list and if we don't solve that the whole planet is fucked) but right now, blatant anti-Black racism in the UK is a real problem, magnified in the media by the current Prime Minister who has concocted a strategy that enables 'real' racists by appeasing to the Far Right of his own party and to win over the conservative working class vote (Blue Labour if you will). He is an appalling Prime Minister and the sooner rid of him the better.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2021 11:10:56 GMT
The temperature has not been ramped up by the media over the last couple of years, it was ramped up by a police officer killing a handcuffed black guy in the States in full view of onlookers. There may well be a focus on race issues in the media now, but you can understand why. I doubt whether any one white person has any idea what it is like to live as a non-white in this country or several others. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm quite confident that the UK is one of the least racist countries in the world in comparison to many others, but that doesn't mean there aren't enormous strides that need to be taken still. To bring these into the light is not to shit-stir or cause unrest for their own means, it's pointing out the discrimination and prejudice that many of these people experience daily. Really. I spent my entire secondary school being accused of being a terrorist and all sorts of other shit on account of having Irish parents. Got into plenty of fights about it. Things are never as straight forward as they seem. The media is 100% causing major issues with the narratives they are pushing. If you really think all ethnic people in this country live in fear of their lives on a daily basis then I can't help you out of that belief. You're too far gone. Right, so you were subjected to prejudice throughout your secondary school on account of being Irish, despite the fact that the country is not particularly prejudiced and the media are responsible for overblowing the issue? I never said all ethnic people live in fear of their lives on a daily basis. I said many of these people suffer prejudice and discrimination on an almost daily basis, which you and Cobham have just confirmed. But it's interesting that you went to that extreme to counter my point, as it does tend to support the contention that some people see the folk complaining about racism as making a mountain out of a molehill.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 15, 2021 11:12:31 GMT
The problem is the media don’t seem to want to concentrate on pushing equally important issues like - other forms of hate crime. - knife crime - the effect of covid on the mental health of our youngsters - male suicide - human rights in China Aren’t these equally in need of the same sort of attention. I have a friend who has a physical disability that has caused her to be mocked verbally abused pretty much every day of her life. We speak often and she genuinly believes that no one cares about her issues because the only hate crime people are interested in is racism. How can that be right? Who fights for her? Racism of course is wrong but it feels like everything is being done to fight it (nothing wrong with that) but other victims are forgotten. I see plenty of coverage of other forms of hate crime (anti-Semitism wasn't out of the news for years recently, likewise anti-European immigrant and anti-Chinese abuse for obvious reasons) and there is rarely a day that passes without a reference to someone being stabbed somewhere in the country, usually London, so I don't think the media ignores those issues at all. Likewise, the long term effects of Covid on mental health are also covered regularly and extensively. I buy the Telegraph every day, there are articles about that and other aspects of Covid almost every day. I've no doubt you're right that some issues aren't given the same attention such as your friend's disability and the prejudice she faces. If we want the whole issue to go away (and I suspect that underpins a lot of the responses from some people - they just get frustrated about it being mentioned all the time, not least because they don't see it as much of a problem because they don't experience it themselves) then surely the better response would be not to deny there's a problem or respond to it dismissively, but to ask what can be done to solve it so that it does go away as an issue, rather than make out that the daily impact these people face (which I note you pointed out with regard to your friend - it is a daily issue for lots of people) is overblown/dramatised by the media? What i would say though is that i’m pretty sure that someone who has a physically disability will stand out a hell of a lot more than someone of a different ethnicity. The reason she’s abused is because she stands out. Living in a multicultural society i don’t think that’s the case for someone who’s black or asian. She is very much on her own in her body. She’s just very lucky that she has good friends that will fight her corner. I don’t disagree that the media may focus on the issues raised but can you honestly say that it’s anywhere near the same level ? I don’t see any visual protests or marches fighting for those with disability’s that get abused. Though I’m happy to be corrected. Surely it’s more important to fight harder for those that struggle to fight for themselves.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 15, 2021 11:15:08 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2021 11:25:11 GMT
I see plenty of coverage of other forms of hate crime (anti-Semitism wasn't out of the news for years recently, likewise anti-European immigrant and anti-Chinese abuse for obvious reasons) and there is rarely a day that passes without a reference to someone being stabbed somewhere in the country, usually London, so I don't think the media ignores those issues at all. Likewise, the long term effects of Covid on mental health are also covered regularly and extensively. I buy the Telegraph every day, there are articles about that and other aspects of Covid almost every day. I've no doubt you're right that some issues aren't given the same attention such as your friend's disability and the prejudice she faces. If we want the whole issue to go away (and I suspect that underpins a lot of the responses from some people - they just get frustrated about it being mentioned all the time, not least because they don't see it as much of a problem because they don't experience it themselves) then surely the better response would be not to deny there's a problem or respond to it dismissively, but to ask what can be done to solve it so that it does go away as an issue, rather than make out that the daily impact these people face (which I note you pointed out with regard to your friend - it is a daily issue for lots of people) is overblown/dramatised by the media? What i would say though is that i’m pretty sure that someone who has a physically disability will stand out a hell of a lot more than someone of a different ethnicity. The reason she’s abused is because she stands out. Living in a multicultural society i don’t think that’s the case for someone who’s black or asian. She is very much on her own in her body. She’s just very lucky that she has good friends that will fight her corner. I don’t disagree that the media may focus on the issues raised but can you honestly say that it’s anywhere near the same level ? I don’t see any visual protests or marches fighting for those with disability’s that get abused. Though I’m happy to be corrected. Surely it’s more important to fight harder for those that struggle to fight for themselves. Really? I'd say anyone with different coloured skin stands out just as much as someone with a disability in a predominantly white country. When people from ethnic minorities suffer racism it's not because they've got different shoes on! I think there have been plenty of campaigns for disability rights, including protests and marches and that's why there is so much legislation to prevent discrimination on those grounds. It's also now socially unacceptable to call people spastics, m*ngs, etc unlike it was 30/40 years ago and while it's heading that way for race epithets there's clearly some way to go. Frankly, I find it amazing that anyone would abuse anyone disabled or non-white or from a different background, but as you and Mickey have demonstrated, it's clearly a problem in this country that shouldn't be dismissed.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2021 11:26:30 GMT
Expect Boris or Patel to come out with a strong statement on the issue now they've realised that they might be on the wrong side of the argument...cynical.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 11:28:54 GMT
Really. I spent my entire secondary school being accused of being a terrorist and all sorts of other shit on account of having Irish parents. Got into plenty of fights about it. Things are never as straight forward as they seem. The media is 100% causing major issues with the narratives they are pushing. If you really think all ethnic people in this country live in fear of their lives on a daily basis then I can't help you out of that belief. You're too far gone. Right, so you were subjected to prejudice throughout your secondary school on account of being Irish, despite the fact that the country is not particularly prejudiced and the media are responsible for overblowing the issue? I never said all ethnic people live in fear of their lives on a daily basis. I said many of these people suffer prejudice and discrimination on an almost daily basis, which you and Cobham have just confirmed. But it's interesting that you went to that extreme to counter my point, as it does tend to support the contention that some people see the folk complaining about racism as making a mountain out of a molehill. I have confirmed what I have been banging on about for months on here. In our society there is a small percentage of total bigots who sadly I believe will always exist. My experience at school involved a small number of kids from the class above me. Not the entire school. I have very very fond memories of my secondary school. I most certainly didn't believe it to be a bigoted vile place in which to spend my education. Those kids didn't convince me everyone at the school was like that. I left school happy. Certain elements of the MSM are trying to paint a very untrue picture of Britain. It is not a racist cess pit. There is much to improve, agreed, but the way the media are going about it, drooling at the next racist tweet, is simply causing a bigger problem.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 15, 2021 11:29:25 GMT
It’s just a very curious omission in any discussion about the ills of the mainstream media in this country? Highlighting the Independent as demon in chief and not even mentioning The Sun seems ‘skewed’ to put it kindly. The Express and Mail wasn't good enough for you then? I'll remember this tactic next time you forget to mention something in a discussion and then claim you must support it because you didn't mention it. You're digging a hole here. It isn’t a tactic mate, I’m genuinely confused as to how anyone can talk about the ills of the media and not have The Sun at the very top of their list? Or how one could view the Independent as worse? What’s the thought process? It’s just an odd thing to miss off a list, like talking about famous Liverpudlians and kicking off with Jimmy Tarbuck and Francis Jeffers but not having any of the Beatles in there.
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Post by skip on Jul 15, 2021 11:30:46 GMT
^ Populist politics is as populist politics does. If there had have been a massive nationwide outcry against the knee by huge swathes of the country they would still be peddling the same shit they were before the tournament kicked off.
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Post by skip on Jul 15, 2021 11:34:11 GMT
In our society there is a small percentage of total bigots who sadly I believe will always exist. There is, but there is also a significant proportion of the populace with 'somewhat traditional or old fashioned, uninformed views on things' that sit between the overt bigots and the rest of us. Those are the people who Boris Johnson is appealing to, and Priti Patel is dog whistling at.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2021 11:36:08 GMT
Right, so you were subjected to prejudice throughout your secondary school on account of being Irish, despite the fact that the country is not particularly prejudiced and the media are responsible for overblowing the issue? I never said all ethnic people live in fear of their lives on a daily basis. I said many of these people suffer prejudice and discrimination on an almost daily basis, which you and Cobham have just confirmed. But it's interesting that you went to that extreme to counter my point, as it does tend to support the contention that some people see the folk complaining about racism as making a mountain out of a molehill. I have confirmed what I have been banging on about for months on here. In our society there is a small percentage of total bigots who sadly I believe will always exist. My experience at school involved a small number of kids from the class above me. Not the entire school. I have very very fond memories of my secondary school. I most certainly didn't believe it to be a bigoted vile place in which to spend my education. Those kids didn't convince me everyone at the school was like that. I left school happy. Certain elements of the MSM are trying to paint a very untrue picture of Britain. It is not a racist cess pit. There is much to improve, agreed, but the way the media are going about it, drooling at the next racist tweet, is simply causing a bigger problem. Yes, you said you spent your entire secondary school being accused of being a terrorist. As I said I imagine people from ethnic backgrounds spend their lives being similarly targeted for being different. Given your experience, I would expect you could empathise with that. That doesn't mean the entire country is racist or prejudiced. However, it does mean there is a racism problem in the country which should be addressed rather than derided, ignored or criticised for overplaying the issue.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 11:42:36 GMT
The Express and Mail wasn't good enough for you then? I'll remember this tactic next time you forget to mention something in a discussion and then claim you must support it because you didn't mention it. You're digging a hole here. It isn’t a tactic mate, I’m genuinely confused as to how anyone can talk about the ills of the media and not have The Sun at the very top of their list? Or how one could view the Independent as worse? What’s the thought process? It’s just an odd thing to miss off a list, like talking about famous Liverpudlians and kicking off with Jimmy Tarbuck and Francis Jeffers but not having any of the Beatles in there. To be honest I haven't read the Sun since probably the late 80s. And that was when I was a sexist bigot who oggled women's breasts. I have of course changed ........ I think we can agree the Sun is a rag 100% Not that it matters of course but I got notified by the Guardian that in the last 12 months I have read over 225 of their online articles. They do produce some decent stuff but they also produce a lot of incendiary guff relating to the latest hot topic victim group. I am not a Sun reading "gammon" if that's what you might think (not saying you do). Although I am white with a shaven balding head so I know "some" would view me through stereotyped eyes as the classic football attending racist. Complicated this discrimination issue.
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Post by skip on Jul 15, 2021 11:43:34 GMT
I have confirmed what I have been banging on about for months on here. In our society there is a small percentage of total bigots who sadly I believe will always exist. My experience at school involved a small number of kids from the class above me. Not the entire school. I have very very fond memories of my secondary school. I most certainly didn't believe it to be a bigoted vile place in which to spend my education. Those kids didn't convince me everyone at the school was like that. I left school happy. Certain elements of the MSM are trying to paint a very untrue picture of Britain. It is not a racist cess pit. There is much to improve, agreed, but the way the media are going about it, drooling at the next racist tweet, is simply causing a bigger problem. Yes, you said you spent your entire secondary school being accused of being a terrorist. As I said I imagine people from ethnic backgrounds spend their lives being similarly targeted for being different. Given your experience, I would expect you could empathise with that. That doesn't mean the entire country is racist or prejudiced. However, it does mean there is a racism problem in the country which should be addressed rather than derided, ignored or criticised for overplaying the issue. Precisely. But the system is. That's the point, and that's the problem. The system doesn't allow for the re-reading, re-understanding of its history, its problems. The British Museum is to all intents and purposes a collection of stolen artefacts but outside of humanities and arts education, where is this discussed or acknowledged? The system triples the likelihood of being stopped by police if you're black. The system means that more black people die of Covid due to the majority of them in lower paid jobs than their white neighbours. It goes on and on. I love what the UK does best, but I hate that it refuses to acknowledge or own its problems. If you support the England players taking the knee, you're some of kind of Marxist apologist traitor. Its absolutely fucking idiotic.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 11:44:51 GMT
In our society there is a small percentage of total bigots who sadly I believe will always exist. There is, but there is also a significant proportion of the populace with 'somewhat traditional or old fashioned, uninformed views on things' that sit between the overt bigots and the rest of us. Those are the people who Boris Johnson is appealing to, and Priti Patel is dog whistling at. Don't disagree with that at all. You don't have to look far above to see in this very thread I have made my thoughts on Boris Johnson very clear. He's a knob and a dangerous one.
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Post by skip on Jul 15, 2021 11:46:02 GMT
There is, but there is also a significant proportion of the populace with 'somewhat traditional or old fashioned, uninformed views on things' that sit between the overt bigots and the rest of us. Those are the people who Boris Johnson is appealing to, and Priti Patel is dog whistling at. Don't disagree with that at all. You don't have to look far above to see in this very thread I have made my thoughts on Boris Johnson very clear. He's a knob and a dangerous one. And for that, I'd but you a pint in a heartbeat. In a well ventilated pub / garden from a two metre distance.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 15, 2021 11:47:47 GMT
What i would say though is that i’m pretty sure that someone who has a physically disability will stand out a hell of a lot more than someone of a different ethnicity. The reason she’s abused is because she stands out. Living in a multicultural society i don’t think that’s the case for someone who’s black or asian. She is very much on her own in her body. She’s just very lucky that she has good friends that will fight her corner. I don’t disagree that the media may focus on the issues raised but can you honestly say that it’s anywhere near the same level ? I don’t see any visual protests or marches fighting for those with disability’s that get abused. Though I’m happy to be corrected. Surely it’s more important to fight harder for those that struggle to fight for themselves. Really? I'd say anyone with different coloured skin stands out just as much as someone with a disability in a predominantly white country. When people from ethnic minorities suffer racism it's not because they've got different shoes on! I think there have been plenty of campaigns for disability rights, including protests and marches and that's why there is so much legislation to prevent discrimination on those grounds. It's also now socially unacceptable to call people spastics, m*ngs, etc unlike it was 30/40 years ago and while it's heading that way for race epithets there's clearly some way to go. Frankly, I find it amazing that anyone would abuse anyone disabled or non-white or from a different background, but as you and Mickey have demonstrated, it's clearly a problem in this country that shouldn't be dismissed. i agree with a lot of that but not in respect to the fact that someone with different coloured skin stands out as much in the community as someone with a disability. I have a number of black friends and have been out with them socially and have never seen them being stared at, pointed at, laughed at and called a freak because they have a disfigurement where as i have with my friend. I guess you’re always going to base your thoughts on personal experience though and of course I know it goes on. I guess what I’m trying to say is that any hate crime is awful and they should all be treated as seriously as the next and that no victim should feel less important than the next. From speaking from the experience of my friend from what she sees and reads currently she doesn’t feel that way.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 15, 2021 12:12:04 GMT
Ah, the truth is outing now. Hopefully people start realising how toxic the media has become. They revel in the division they are providing the oxygen for. The likes of the Independent and Guardian in particular should be held to account for this. Similarly the likes of the express and mail should also be held to account for the shyte they spout. But in-between all this are far worse offenders with the likes of Rolling Stone magazine and Esquire and dozens of other "fully paid up justice warrior virtue signallers" who really do seem to get away with talking utter bollox with zero consequences. They are literally brainwashing youth into believing the utter drivel that dribbles out of their pathetic little mouths. There is a whole race baiting industry behind all this and many jobs rely on it. Its a cancer that is in many ways as bad as the racism that does actually exist. You can add Ben & Jerry's to that list. Just stick to overpriced ice cream lads.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 15, 2021 12:17:04 GMT
Become? With respect have you been in a coma for 30 years? "Has become" I think that highlights the very issue at hand: if it doesn't affect you directly, it's not really a genuine problem/overblown and all those people highlighting it are just making a fuss for their own ends. Daily Mail 1930s...for an indication of how our right-wing press has always been this way inclined. Similarly, it wasn't that long ago that the Tories campaigned under the slogan "If you want a n*gger for a neighbour, vote Labour" Our current government is effectively doing the same thing, in much less overt tones, appealing to precisely the same people, and they know what they're doing when they say taking a knee is gesture politics, then pretend to be disgusted when some idiots feel emboldened by it, just like they knew full well what the outcome of focussing on migrants would be during the Brexit referendum. 😚 www.skynews.com.au/world-news/activist-journalists-should-pay-the-very-slavery-reparations-they-advocate/video/3d2be1f4d21fc64803b065673fcafbd3
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 15, 2021 12:44:11 GMT
No great surprise there has been a shift of opinion in favour of the team taking the knee given both the success of the team in the tournament and the racism storm that followed. What’s interesting is there is still a very large percentage opposed. It does demonstrate that this is a contentious issue.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 12:55:21 GMT
"Has become" I think that highlights the very issue at hand: if it doesn't affect you directly, it's not really a genuine problem/overblown and all those people highlighting it are just making a fuss for their own ends. Daily Mail 1930s...for an indication of how our right-wing press has always been this way inclined. Similarly, it wasn't that long ago that the Tories campaigned under the slogan "If you want a n*gger for a neighbour, vote Labour" Our current government is effectively doing the same thing, in much less overt tones, appealing to precisely the same people, and they know what they're doing when they say taking a knee is gesture politics, then pretend to be disgusted when some idiots feel emboldened by it, just like they knew full well what the outcome of focussing on migrants would be during the Brexit referendum. 😚 www.skynews.com.au/world-news/activist-journalists-should-pay-the-very-slavery-reparations-they-advocate/video/3d2be1f4d21fc64803b065673fcafbd3Ooooooooooooof. Ah the hypocrisy of the modern virtue signalling social justice warriors. It would be nice if we could have a sensible debate instead of this starting point of "we are all racists in Britain whether you like it or not" and "there is racism in every nook and cranny of this land". Well I don't like it and I will keep talking back to those who keep spouting this bullshit narrative. There is plenty wrong with this country but there is also a hell of a lot that is right about it. Lets not forget that. I won't. And I am the son of Irish Catholic immigrants.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2021 14:34:44 GMT
Ooooooooooooof. Ah the hypocrisy of the modern virtue signalling social justice warriors. It would be nice if we could have a sensible debate instead of this starting point of " we are all racists in Britain whether you like it or not" and " there is racism in every nook and cranny of this land". Well I don't like it and I will keep talking back to those who keep spouting this bullshit narrative. There is plenty wrong with this country but there is also a hell of a lot that is right about it. Lets not forget that. I won't. And I am the son of Irish Catholic immigrants. But nobody has said that on here, other than yourself, so it's a bit of an over-reaction and characterisation of a position to suggest anyone has and it doesn't help the sensible debate you rightly advocate. The nearest I've seen to anything remotely approaching that position is the document the Runnymede Trust sent to the UN which stated that racism is systemic in England, which, given the actions the police, justice system, housing and employment aspects of our country have demonstrated over the years is probably not far off the mark. Again, that doesn't mean that everyone in the country is a racist, but to deny the problem, criticise those highlighting it, or make out that by doing so they are saying everyone in the country is a raving Nazi doesn't help!
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 14:57:40 GMT
Ooooooooooooof. Ah the hypocrisy of the modern virtue signalling social justice warriors. It would be nice if we could have a sensible debate instead of this starting point of " we are all racists in Britain whether you like it or not" and " there is racism in every nook and cranny of this land". Well I don't like it and I will keep talking back to those who keep spouting this bullshit narrative. There is plenty wrong with this country but there is also a hell of a lot that is right about it. Lets not forget that. I won't. And I am the son of Irish Catholic immigrants. But nobody has said that on here, other than yourself, so it's a bit of an over-reaction and characterisation of a position to suggest anyone has and it doesn't help the sensible debate you rightly advocate. The nearest I've seen to anything remotely approaching that position is the document the Runnymede Trust sent to the UN which stated that racism is systemic in England, which, given the actions the police, justice system, housing and employment aspects of our country have demonstrated over the years is probably not far off the mark. Again, that doesn't mean that everyone in the country is a racist, but to deny the problem, criticise those highlighting it, or make out that by doing so they are saying everyone in the country is a raving Nazi doesn't help! I am not on about people on here. I am talking about certain media outlets. The Guardian being one particularly bad offender. And that is a paper I read quite a lot because on certain things they talk some sense. On the whole on this platform I think people are pretty sensible even if I believe they are totally wrong in their opinion on this particular subject. You obviously think I am wrong with many of my views which is fair enough but at least it doesn't descend into vile abuse. The media is propagating vile abuse with their dishonest reporting. It is causing deeper division. More sensible discussions need to be had, but for some the starting point paints a picture that is simply not the reality and experience of many ethnic people on the ground. Racism exists and its horrible and it needs dealing with but lets get some real honest perspective on it is my view. Rather than nefarious papers/outlets fuelling the debate in an incendiary way in order to make money.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 15, 2021 17:29:40 GMT
But nobody has said that on here, other than yourself, so it's a bit of an over-reaction and characterisation of a position to suggest anyone has and it doesn't help the sensible debate you rightly advocate. The nearest I've seen to anything remotely approaching that position is the document the Runnymede Trust sent to the UN which stated that racism is systemic in England, which, given the actions the police, justice system, housing and employment aspects of our country have demonstrated over the years is probably not far off the mark. Again, that doesn't mean that everyone in the country is a racist, but to deny the problem, criticise those highlighting it, or make out that by doing so they are saying everyone in the country is a raving Nazi doesn't help! I am not on about people on here. I am talking about certain media outlets. The Guardian being one particularly bad offender. And that is a paper I read quite a lot because on certain things they talk some sense. On the whole on this platform I think people are pretty sensible even if I believe they are totally wrong in their opinion on this particular subject. You obviously think I am wrong with many of my views which is fair enough but at least it doesn't descend into vile abuse. The media is propagating vile abuse with their dishonest reporting. It is causing deeper division. More sensible discussions need to be had, but for some the starting point paints a picture that is simply not the reality and experience of many ethnic people on the ground. Racism exists and its horrible and it needs dealing with but lets get some real honest perspective on it is my view. Rather than nefarious papers/outlets fuelling the debate in an incendiary way in order to make money. Actually, I think you're perfectly entitled to your views and don't disagree with a lot of them, especially the idea that a sensible debate should be had on the subject. And you're right, it makes a pleasant change to discuss stuff without the usual petty insults and childish name-calling you get from some people on here! I think the best starting point would be to ask the people who are subjected to this kind of stuff, like Cobham's disabled friend and people from an ethnic minority, what their daily experiences are like and what they think should be done to address these problems. That will provide a much better perspective on the whole issue and my suspicion is that, if anything, their experiences will show the situation to be pretty unpleasant for a lot of these people. We just don't see much of it because we are fortunate to be in the majority. You mentioned that the Guardian often comes out with a lot of incendiary guff about the latest hot topic victim group. I don't read it so I can't say, but it's notable that of all the UK newspapers that one regularly tops polls for reliability and trustworthiness of its journalism, along with The Times.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jul 15, 2021 19:52:57 GMT
I am not on about people on here. I am talking about certain media outlets. The Guardian being one particularly bad offender. And that is a paper I read quite a lot because on certain things they talk some sense. On the whole on this platform I think people are pretty sensible even if I believe they are totally wrong in their opinion on this particular subject. You obviously think I am wrong with many of my views which is fair enough but at least it doesn't descend into vile abuse. The media is propagating vile abuse with their dishonest reporting. It is causing deeper division. More sensible discussions need to be had, but for some the starting point paints a picture that is simply not the reality and experience of many ethnic people on the ground. Racism exists and its horrible and it needs dealing with but lets get some real honest perspective on it is my view. Rather than nefarious papers/outlets fuelling the debate in an incendiary way in order to make money. Actually, I think you're perfectly entitled to your views and don't disagree with a lot of them, especially the idea that a sensible debate should be had on the subject. And you're right, it makes a pleasant change to discuss stuff without the usual petty insults and childish name-calling you get from some people on here! I think the best starting point would be to ask the people who are subjected to this kind of stuff, like Cobham's disabled friend and people from an ethnic minority, what their daily experiences are like and what they think should be done to address these problems. That will provide a much better perspective on the whole issue and my suspicion is that, if anything, their experiences will show the situation to be pretty unpleasant for a lot of these people. We just don't see much of it because we are fortunate to be in the majority. You mentioned that the Guardian often comes out with a lot of incendiary guff about the latest hot topic victim group. I don't read it so I can't say, but it's notable that of all the UK newspapers that one regularly tops polls for reliability and trustworthiness of its journalism, along with The Times. A very fair post. I am conflicted with the Guardian as I read it a lot online. I've just noticed that more recently they have been getting involved in stuff which in my opinion is very divisive. To be fair I think a lot of that is opinion pieces from guest writers. So on the one hand I think its shyte but on the other I like it. But I figure that's ok. I like my missus some of the time and sometimes I much prefer the dog (most of the time actually but keep that quiet )
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