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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 13, 2021 6:44:21 GMT
Black man has a pop at Asian woman. Or person calls out hypocrisy of another person….
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 13, 2021 6:46:08 GMT
Black man has a pop at Asian woman. Or person calls out hypocrisy of another person…. Yeah, that’s it.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 7:01:58 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57778668Johnson and Patel "like arsonists complaining about a fire they've poured petrol on", a pretty accurate description. When one of your own describes your actions as dog whistle stuff that wins votes but destroys nations it's not good. They certainly know what's likely to play well with their own voters.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 13, 2021 7:32:54 GMT
Black man has a pop at Asian woman. and that’s why it needs to stop being about politics and needs to be about morals and the country needing to unite together to change things. Do we really think things would be different under any other party because I don’t. Racists will always be around. It’s now about taking strong positive action. Would Tyrone Mings prefer it if Priti Patel said nothing to condone it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 7:41:54 GMT
Black man has a pop at Asian woman. and that’s why it needs to stop being about politics and needs to be about morals and the country needing to unite together to change things. Do we really think things would be different under any other party because I don’t. Racists will always be around. It’s now about taking strong positive action. Would Tyrone Mings prefer it if Priti Patel said nothing to condone it. I think he’d have preferred it if the Home Secretary hadn’t publicly condemned an anti-racism stance.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 7:52:27 GMT
and that’s why it needs to stop being about politics and needs to be about morals and the country needing to unite together to change things. Do we really think things would be different under any other party because I don’t. Racists will always be around. It’s now about taking strong positive action. Would Tyrone Mings prefer it if Priti Patel said nothing to condone it. I think he’d have preferred it if the Home Secretary hadn’t publicly condemned an anti-racism stance. And then been hypocritical enough to express shock and disgust at the effects that condemnation helped to bring about.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 13, 2021 7:57:12 GMT
I think he’d have preferred it if the Home Secretary hadn’t publicly condemned an anti-racism stance. And then been hypocritical enough to express shock and disgust at the effects that condemnation helped to bring about. so the best thing would have been for her not to condemn the racism then and just let it go?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 8:00:50 GMT
And then been hypocritical enough to express shock and disgust at the effects that condemnation helped to bring about. so the best thing would have been for her not to condemn the racism then and just let it go? The best thing would’ve been for her to not condemn the anti racism stance in the first place. Once she’d done that the damage had been done. You can see how hollow those previous words make this condemnation of the racists ring, surely?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 8:41:34 GMT
so the best thing would have been for her not to condemn the racism then and just let it go? The best thing would’ve been for her to not condemn the anti racism stance in the first place. Once she’d done that the damage had been done. You can see how hollow those previous words make this condemnation of the racists ring, surely? Precisely, it just legitimises the subsequent responses. They know what they're doing, these politicians. First and foremost they know it plays well with certain parts of the electorate, and if some numpties take it further into outright racism and abuse, they can pretend to be outraged and look shocked. It was exactly the same with the rise in hate crime after the Brexit campaign focussed on immigrants. That focus played out nicely with those who respond well to those kind of comments, and led to an unsurprising rise in attacks and hate crimes, but, politically, got the job done. Probably the same thing will play out here. Eventually, those on the receiving end of the abuse will morph into the problem and the politicians who say these things and effectively help to bring about such issues will be the ones getting the support at the ballot box. It happened on this board so will no doubt be the same in the wider country.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 13, 2021 8:44:36 GMT
so the best thing would have been for her not to condemn the racism then and just let it go? The best thing would’ve been for her to not condemn the anti racism stance in the first place. Once she’d done that the damage had been done. You can see how hollow those previous words make this condemnation of the racists ring, surely? We’re back in that never ending loop. One person sees taking the knee as an apolitical anti racist gesture Another person sees it more as a political gesture than anti racism I get the feeling neither side is going to convince the other that their view is the right one.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 8:46:14 GMT
The best thing would’ve been for her to not condemn the anti racism stance in the first place. Once she’d done that the damage had been done. You can see how hollow those previous words make this condemnation of the racists ring, surely? We’re back in that never ending loop. One person sees taking the knee as an apolitical anti racist gesture Another person sees it more as a political gesture than anti racism I get the feeling neither side is going to convince the other that their view is the right one. That's right, despite the England players stating categorically that it isn't a political gesture for them, they can't be right.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 13, 2021 8:53:14 GMT
We’re back in that never ending loop. One person sees taking the knee as an apolitical anti racist gesture Another person sees it more as a political gesture than anti racism I get the feeling neither side is going to convince the other that their view is the right one. That's right, despite the England players stating categorically that it isn't a political gesture for them, they can't be right. I think you’ve just demonstrated exactly what I am saying.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 9:00:16 GMT
That's right, despite the England players stating categorically that it isn't a political gesture for them, they can't be right. I think you’ve just demonstrated exactly what I am saying. I wasn't disagreeing. When a good number of people will simply refuse to accept the explanation from the mouths of the very people carrying out the action, then it's inevitable. The same people may as well say that they're also not professional footballers, despite the obvious. You can only wonder at it really
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 13, 2021 9:07:37 GMT
I think you’ve just demonstrated exactly what I am saying. I wasn't disagreeing. When a good number of people will simply refuse to accept the explanation from the mouths of the very people carrying out the action, then it's inevitable. The same people may as well say that they're also not professional footballers, despite the obvious. You can only wonder at it really That’s just silly.
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Post by Kilo on Jul 13, 2021 9:09:42 GMT
I think you’ve just demonstrated exactly what I am saying. I wasn't disagreeing. When a good number of people will simply refuse to accept the explanation from the mouths of the very people carrying out the action, then it's inevitable. The same people may as well say that they're also not professional footballers, despite the obvious. You can only wonder at it really You did agree and then added your caveat thereby proving Partick's point.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 13, 2021 9:09:49 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Jul 13, 2021 9:31:05 GMT
I wasn't disagreeing. When a good number of people will simply refuse to accept the explanation from the mouths of the very people carrying out the action, then it's inevitable. The same people may as well say that they're also not professional footballers, despite the obvious. You can only wonder at it really That’s just silly. You're wasting your time Partick. Grow up and get some help 😉
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 13, 2021 9:39:58 GMT
and that’s why it needs to stop being about politics and needs to be about morals and the country needing to unite together to change things. Do we really think things would be different under any other party because I don’t. Racists will always be around. It’s now about taking strong positive action. Would Tyrone Mings prefer it if Priti Patel said nothing to condone it. I think he’d have preferred it if the Home Secretary hadn’t publicly condemned an anti-racism stance. She didn’t condemn a anti racism stance
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 9:52:07 GMT
You're wasting your time Partick. Grow up and get some help 😉 Couldn't agree more, on all three counts
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 9:52:59 GMT
I wasn't disagreeing. When a good number of people will simply refuse to accept the explanation from the mouths of the very people carrying out the action, then it's inevitable. The same people may as well say that they're also not professional footballers, despite the obvious. You can only wonder at it really That’s just silly. No sillier than people refusing to accept the word of the footballers themselves doing it
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 9:54:57 GMT
I think he’d have preferred it if the Home Secretary hadn’t publicly condemned an anti-racism stance. She didn’t condemn a anti racism stance She described it as gesture politics, hardly a ringing endorsement was it! They know what effect their words have, how they are received by the people they want to vote for them, and what effect it will have on encouraging some numpties to take it into overt racism.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 13, 2021 9:56:36 GMT
No sillier than people refusing to accept the word of the footballers themselves doing it Let’s go round again. You are simply, once again, demonstrating my original point.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 10:00:10 GMT
No sillier than people refusing to accept the word of the footballers themselves doing it Let’s go round again. You are simply, once again, demonstrating my original point. I didn't disagree with it in the first place It's not mutually exclusive to also think anyone who refuses to accept the word of the footballers stating that their stance is simply an anti-racism one and not political, is a bit daft. But I agree, having the footballers themselves state why they're doing it won't change those people's way of thinking!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 10:03:17 GMT
I think he’d have preferred it if the Home Secretary hadn’t publicly condemned an anti-racism stance. She didn’t condemn a anti racism stance Can you elaborate? Is this you refusing to accept she condemned it, or refusing to accept that taking the knee when done by the players was purely an anti-racism stance?
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2021 10:09:40 GMT
Black man has a pop at Asian woman. Black man defends himself after being subjected to racial abuse against a politician who has a track record for dog whistle statements and half baked anti-immigration policies.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 13, 2021 10:15:28 GMT
She didn’t condemn a anti racism stance She described it as gesture politics, hardly a ringing endorsement was it! They know what effect their words have, how they are received by the people they want to vote for them, and what effect it will have on encouraging some numpties to take it into overt racism. Did she condemn it No she did not I would imagine that women has received more racial abuse than you me and anyone else on this board will ever see
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 10:20:09 GMT
She described it as gesture politics, hardly a ringing endorsement was it! They know what effect their words have, how they are received by the people they want to vote for them, and what effect it will have on encouraging some numpties to take it into overt racism. Did she condemn it No she did not I would imagine that women has received more racial abuse than you me and anyone else on this board will ever see Let’s use ‘dismiss’ or ‘belittle’ instead then, do either of those work for you? She was critical of it and refused to accept the players’ own explanation regarding the context. Re her receiving racial abuse, that too is abhorrent. I’m not sure what your point is as relates to this though?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 10:20:13 GMT
She described it as gesture politics, hardly a ringing endorsement was it! They know what effect their words have, how they are received by the people they want to vote for them, and what effect it will have on encouraging some numpties to take it into overt racism. Did she condemn it No she did not I would imagine that women has received more racial abuse than you me and anyone else on this board will ever see And should therefore know full well how her words and actions will be received. Which she no doubt does. Sadly, it appears pandering to certain parts of the electorate is more important.
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2021 10:29:52 GMT
I think Gareth Southgate alluded to that stating that a lot of the abuse had come from overseas. Social media is destroying this country whether it’s kids abusing each other or bloggers wanting to post the next video of someone being stabbed or beaten up for likes. We’re a pretty poisonous society right now totally split in our views with the worst possibe people getting a very loud voice. It’s easy to politicise the issue and blame it all on the Tories and yes they have to take some responsibility but surely more than anything this is about common decency which seems to be lacking in a lot right now. These idiots who abuse and cause trouble have I’m sure always been around but now they have a voice and freedom to post or write whatever they want and mentally scar those people that they target. This isn’t just about racism though of course that’s a big part it’s about any victim that’s been targeted for their colour or anything that makes them different. The likes of Instagram., Tiktok and Facebook need to do more even if it means they lose subscribers. How about they start charging for the use of their site and ensure they have the card details of those paying to use their service that would certainly make people think more and it would make it far easier to find the perpetrators. As someone said before, all social media accounts should be verified by using IDs and people having to use their actual names. Ideally, yes, all accounts would be clearly linked to one person, but they don't work like that in reality. GDPR is a massive human rights issue in the technological age, not something to hide behind, but free online communication is a thing (and yes data and traffic it's monetised of course or how would be using the Oatcake for free (see more below) ) but the ID/bank account thing cannot work, and its precisely because of the way it works. It is a depressing reality that some people exploit that. People of a certain vintage refer to "keyboard warriors" but the vast majority of social media users don't even use desktop computers and laptops, its purely on handheld smart devices. On the Oatcake, and no doubt countless other footballing forums, people would post their comments about a match minutes after the final whistle, and would be accused of not attending the game in reality because the assumption was people had to get home before share their thoughts online. As we now, know, there are two main forms of social media posting that outweighs every other mode, and that is instant posting and pre-edited content. In the case of racial abuse, and most recently after the Euro final, you just know tanked up dickheads were racially abusing the England footballers within minutes of the final whistle, and I'd be staggered if some of those were not posted whilst still in Wembley itself, or in pubs or back gardens. Much like we are not required by law to carry ID on the street, we are not required by law to have digital ID linked to our social media profiles. And we have laws to protect people from racial abuse on the street there should be clear laws, and the means of policing and enforcing, online racial abuse. One thing the Tech Giants are correct on IMHO, is governments passing the buck, telling the likes of Twitter and whoever else, to smoke out the racists. But whilst that is very difficult to do in reality, save for a few proper bell ends who post racist abuse from accounts linked to their employers, say, is that the Government have to lead from the top and stop with the dog whistles, the casual comments to appease the far right and to win votes from some people with questionable attitudes towards culture and race. To conclude for now, this argument - taking the knee - isn't Tory versus Labour, it's the current UK Government that has bought wholesale into right wing posturing which regrettably is the continuation of Brexit, where Cameron mistakenly thought he could put to bed UKIP once and for all. Once it backfired (for any number of reasons) we now have a Conservative party in all but name. They are a monster hybrid of the Tory Right, UKIP, and any old madness designed to maintain power for as long as possible. And as long as this government holds on to power, regardless what party they technically represent, the longer these problems will remain. And its why we all have to call out shit when we see or hear it, regardless of whether we think it affects ourselves directly or not.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 13, 2021 10:56:40 GMT
She described it as gesture politics, hardly a ringing endorsement was it! They know what effect their words have, how they are received by the people they want to vote for them, and what effect it will have on encouraging some numpties to take it into overt racism. Did she condemn it No she did not I would imagine that women has received more racial abuse than you me and anyone else on this board will ever see No doubt she’ll have had a bucket or two more of abuse following Tyrone’s tweet.
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