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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 13, 2021 11:01:53 GMT
Did she condemn it No she did not I would imagine that women has received more racial abuse than you me and anyone else on this board will ever see No doubt she’ll have had a bucket or two more of abuse following Tyrone’s tweet. It’s modern problem where people don’t seem to be able to grasp if you criticise or don’t agree with the methods used to deliver a message you’re not necessarily disagreeing with the message
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 11:07:03 GMT
Did she condemn it No she did not I would imagine that women has received more racial abuse than you me and anyone else on this board will ever see No doubt she’ll have had a bucket or two more of abuse following Tyrone’s tweet. And no doubt will Mings. On top of which, I'd wager there are a few newspapers currently digging into Mings' past trying to find anything bad he might have done in order to discredit him and once again morph those doing the highlighting into the problem.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 11:08:50 GMT
No doubt she’ll have had a bucket or two more of abuse following Tyrone’s tweet. It’s modern problem where people don’t seem to be able to grasp if you criticise or don’t agree with the methods used to deliver a message you disagree with the message Which message that the England players are delivering do you disagree with?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 13, 2021 11:25:09 GMT
It’s modern problem where people don’t seem to be able to grasp if you criticise or don’t agree with the methods used to deliver a message you disagree with the message Which message that the England players are delivering do you disagree with? Oh dear I sense straw clutching As you well know and on many occasions I’ve posted that all forms of racism are abhorrent and the perpetrators should be exposed for what they are What ever you me or any footballers think and say rightly or wrongly Some people will see the taking the knee as support for a racist and self confessed Marxist organisation
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 11:27:57 GMT
Which message that the England players are delivering do you disagree with? Oh dear I sense straw clutching As you well know and on many occasions I’ve posted that all forms of racism are abhorrent and the perpetrators should be exposed for what they are What ever you me or any footballers think and say rightly or wrongly Some people will see the taking the knee as support for a racist and self confessed Marxist organisation Yes, I know, I've already said that on the previous page, I was asking you which message that the England players are delivering do you disagree with according to your first post on this page?
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 13, 2021 11:36:12 GMT
Oh dear I sense straw clutching As you well know and on many occasions I’ve posted that all forms of racism are abhorrent and the perpetrators should be exposed for what they are What ever you me or any footballers think and say rightly or wrongly Some people will see the taking the knee as support for a racist and self confessed Marxist organisation Yes, I know, I've already said that on the previous page, I was asking you which message that the England players are delivering do you disagree with according to your first post on this page? If you read my first post on this page I haven’t disagreed with anything I’ve merely pointed out that not everyone has to agree with the way a message is delivered
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 11:37:32 GMT
Yes, I know, I've already said that on the previous page, I was asking you which message that the England players are delivering do you disagree with according to your first post on this page? If you read my first post on this page I haven’t disagreed with anything I’ve merely pointed out that not everyone has to agree with the way a message is delivered Perhaps I misunderstood it. It seemed like you were saying that if you disagreed with the way it was delivered you also disagreed with the message?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 13, 2021 12:12:47 GMT
Worried about players boycotting I would suggest......
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 13, 2021 12:13:29 GMT
No sillier than people refusing to accept the word of the footballers themselves doing it Let’s go round again. You are simply, once again, demonstrating my original point. It’s all about political points scoring and about the Tories being evil and the Labour being the knight in shining armour. Why can’t everybody fight racism under some non political task force where those leading are in it for the right reason and not to score points or get votes. I’m done with the 2 political parties because they're both useless so maybe we keep them out of it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 12:20:05 GMT
Let’s go round again. You are simply, once again, demonstrating my original point. It’s all about political points scoring and about the Tories being evil and the Labour being the night in shining armour. Why can’t everybody fight racism under some non political task force where those leading are in it for the right reason and not to score points or get votes. I’m done with the 2 political parties because they're both useless so maybe we keep them out of it. Who is touting the current Labour Party as being anything short of a shambles? Criticising one doesn’t automatically make you a supporter of the other.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 12:20:44 GMT
Worried about players boycotting I would suggest...... More abject cowardice from that office.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 13, 2021 12:40:11 GMT
If you read my first post on this page I haven’t disagreed with anything I’ve merely pointed out that not everyone has to agree with the way a message is delivered Perhaps I misunderstood it. It seemed like you were saying that if you disagreed with the way it was delivered you also disagreed with the message? Having just re read it it was confusing I shall adjust it
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2021 13:25:29 GMT
No doubt she’ll have had a bucket or two more of abuse following Tyrone’s tweet. It’s modern problem where people don’t seem to be able to grasp if you criticise or don’t agree with the methods used to deliver a message you’re not necessarily disagreeing with the message It's not a modern problem, it's a manufactured problem. Booing the medium, not the message? Really? When has that ever been 'a thing'? Disagree with the knee all you like, but to boo it on the grounds that were you to be a) black b) a footballer and c) well within your rights to seek the means of highlighting the endemic problem of non-white footballers having their race targeted, has no philosophical weight or logic behind it whatsoever.
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2021 13:26:51 GMT
Law and Policy blog post: "The media and policy contexts of Tyrone Mings’ extraordinarily powerful tweet" davidallengreen.com
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jul 13, 2021 13:30:37 GMT
Let’s go round again. You are simply, once again, demonstrating my original point. It’s all about political points scoring and about the Tories being evil and the Labour being the night in shining armour. Why can’t everybody fight racism under some non political task force where those leading are in it for the right reason and not to score points or get votes. I’m done with the 2 political parties because they're both useless so maybe we keep them out of it. Maybe for some people. But it might also be a consequence of where populism often leads to, and the dangers of using populist rhetoric to appeal to certain sections of the electorate when in government. They know what they're saying and the impact it has.
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2021 14:35:28 GMT
Some on this thread have said they don't mind, or even support, the Kick It Out initiative. This is Sanjay Bhandari Chair of Kick It Out, on BBC World at One. @sanjaykickitout "About Last Night: Some thoughts on last night’s events and the broader context of online abuse." Sanjay is on from 16m20s to 21m20s www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000xstz
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2021 14:38:07 GMT
It’s all about political points scoring and about the Tories being evil and the Labour being the night in shining armour. Why can’t everybody fight racism under some non political task force where those leading are in it for the right reason and not to score points or get votes. I’m done with the 2 political parties because they're both useless so maybe we keep them out of it. Maybe for some people. But it might also be a consequence of where populism often leads to, and the dangers of using populist rhetoric to appeal to certain sections of the electorate when in government.They know what they're saying and the impact it has. Depressingly, it doesn't lead somewhere as an unintended consequence, it's a calculated risk to win over 'certain sections' of the electorate (vis a vis attempting to harness the UKIP/Far Right vote). It always leads to this, in every circumstance and in every country it happens in. And when a government plays these games/tactics, it is tacitly racist. Or they wouldn't do it.
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2021 14:45:11 GMT
The genie is out of the bottle. Some English national footballers (the black ones) know that regardless of how much effort they put into the imminent Euros, if one of them screws up, spoons a penalty over the bar, makes a tackle that gets them sent off, misplaces a pass that leads to a breakaway goal, whatever it might be, that some racist wanker will give them online abuse. And they have to play knowing that could happen. Beckham wasn't given abuse about his skin colour when his petulance got him sent off. Gareth Southgate didn't get racist abuse when he sent his penalty up into the crowd. And all the whole squad and manager are asking is that there is a show of unity amongst the England fans in the stadium when they make a gesture before the game, against this type of behaviour. But instead, up and down the country, England football fans are making excuses for not doing so, making excuses to boo themselves or excusing those that do. And they call themselves patriotic. They claim that they're not booing because they're racist, but because or something spurious or other. It's a fucking joke. You’re quite the mind-reader really aren’t you. Not really, and deeply saddened to be proved right. Sanjay Bhandari @sanjaykickitout "The most depressing thing was how grimly predictable it was..." At the game, with the FA "praying that a black player doesn't miss."www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000xstz 16m20s ^
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 13, 2021 15:30:27 GMT
Which message that the England players are delivering do you disagree with? Oh dear I sense straw clutching As you well know and on many occasions I’ve posted that all forms of racism are abhorrent and the perpetrators should be exposed for what they are What ever you me or any footballers think and say rightly or wrongly Some people will see the taking the knee as support for a racist and self confessed Marxist organisation That's their choice. I would suggest that there is simply no need to see it through that particular very narrow lens though. For example, the footballers clearly don't need to, and millions of other supporters and members of the public don't. These footballers are not remotely interested in promoting Marxism, or racism, for example. To suggest they are is clearly absurd. But choosing to see it like that will inevitably raise questions as to why there is such a resistance to at least consider seeing it how others might see it. Particularly those who are having to endure this level of abuse. I would suggest that these players are aware enough to know when they supporting, or challenging, racism. For a start, many of them have clearly had more experience of it than me, so who am I to tell them what they should and shouldn't do about it?
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Post by thevoid on Jul 13, 2021 16:14:35 GMT
It doesn't look like the kneeling's working.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 13, 2021 16:17:25 GMT
You’re quite the mind-reader really aren’t you. Not really, and deeply saddened to be proved right. Sanjay Bhandari @sanjaykickitout "The most depressing thing was how grimly predictable it was..." At the game, with the FA "praying that a black player doesn't miss."www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000xstz 16m20s ^ Tell me you haven't been waiting for over a month to swing and miss so badly at that throwaway post
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 13, 2021 16:44:12 GMT
It’s all about political points scoring and about the Tories being evil and the Labour being the night in shining armour. Why can’t everybody fight racism under some non political task force where those leading are in it for the right reason and not to score points or get votes. I’m done with the 2 political parties because they're both useless so maybe we keep them out of it. Who is touting the current Labour Party as being anything short of a shambles? Criticising one doesn’t automatically make you a supporter of the other. I’d suggest Gary Neville is. A Corbyn led Labour party was even worse so how far back are we going?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 13, 2021 16:50:17 GMT
Who is touting the current Labour Party as being anything short of a shambles? Criticising one doesn’t automatically make you a supporter of the other. I’d suggest Gary Neville is. A Corbyn led Labour party was even worse so how far back are we going? Neville is no fan of Starmer, he’s been critical of him. Corbyn is long gone, are we saying any previously declared allegiance for a political party invalidates criticism of the sitting government?
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 13, 2021 16:54:34 GMT
It doesn't look like the kneeling's working. ?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 13, 2021 17:04:17 GMT
I’d suggest Gary Neville is. A Corbyn led Labour party was even worse so how far back are we going? Neville is no fan of Starmer, he’s been critical of him. Corbyn is long gone, are we saying any previously declared allegiance for a political party invalidates criticism of the sitting government? Not at all sounds like you’re the same as me then you wouldn’t vote for either.
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Post by followyoudown on Jul 13, 2021 19:27:39 GMT
Interesting stats and article although even 30% abuse from the Uk is 30% too much.
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Post by skip on Jul 13, 2021 19:43:25 GMT
Not really, and deeply saddened to be proved right. Sanjay Bhandari @sanjaykickitout "The most depressing thing was how grimly predictable it was..." At the game, with the FA "praying that a black player doesn't miss."www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000xstz 16m20s ^ Tell me you haven't been waiting for over a month to swing and miss so badly at that throwaway post You value your voice way on here way too highly mate.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 13, 2021 19:56:04 GMT
Interesting stats and article although even 30% abuse from the Uk is 30% too much. The Graun also analysed almost 600,000 tweets aimed at England players during the group stages and found 2000 (0.3%) were abusive. Of those, 44 (less than 0.008%) contained racist content. If we hash those data together with what you've posted here (imprecise I know but still), we could say there were something like 14 or 15 racist tweets sent to England players by people in England over that week or so. Again, obviously 14 or 15 too many, it's a problem that has to be dealt with and it does nothing to minimise the experience of having to endure that vile crap as a player, but maybe social media is giving us a problem of scale here. It wouldn't be the first time. Incidentally the people who received the most abuse by far (of any nature) were Southgate and Kane.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 13, 2021 20:00:06 GMT
Tell me you haven't been waiting for over a month to swing and miss so badly at that throwaway post You value your voice way on here way too highly mate. I literally called my post "throwaway" and you're extracting the conclusion I'm valuing my voice too highly.. I honestly don't know how you do sometimes
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Post by followyoudown on Jul 13, 2021 20:27:14 GMT
Interesting stats and article although even 30% abuse from the Uk is 30% too much. The Graun also analysed almost 600,000 tweets aimed at England players during the group stages and found 2000 (0.3%) were abusive. Of those, 44 (less than 0.008%) contained racist content. If we hash those data together with what you've posted here (imprecise I know but still), we could say there were something like 14 or 15 racist tweets sent to England players by people in England over that week or so. Again, obviously 14 or 15 too many, it's a problem that has to be dealt with and it does nothing to minimise the experience of having to endure that vile crap as a player, but maybe social media is giving us a problem of scale here. It wouldn't be the first time. Incidentally the people who received the most abuse by far (of any nature) were Southgate and Kane. Thats less racist abuse than the racist cartoons the guardian publishes, I am sure unfortunately the abuse went up after losing and anyone found to have sent such abuse deserves everything coming to them.
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