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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 1, 2021 22:16:29 GMT
If I’m honest I don’t think there is one. There will always be slants to the left or right but the Guardian in my opinion takes it beyond that and is pretty much Marxist. The Mail is clearly right and I can honestly say I’ve never bought it either. If I’m honest I stopped reading papers years ago as none really represented my thinking as do neither of the 2 main political parties. To be honest I’d rather have read FHM, Q or the Beano when I used to commute. However what I would say is that I do not like being forced opinions on to me regarding what I should be thinking or that I should be ashamed of being British. I have my views and there based on nothing other than what I think not what I’m told. You've lost me now mate how in the wild wild world of sports is The Guardian Marxist? Sorry my mistake must have had a brain freeze.
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Post by metalhead on Mar 1, 2021 23:56:29 GMT
Are we really saying that The Guardian is the biggest problem with the press in this country. Fuck me I've heard it all now Not at all.
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 2, 2021 9:25:43 GMT
Absolutely, the difference between Churchill in the eyes of this country and that of our allies, compared to other countries where he's reviled I find fascinating. And Marxism should absolutely be taught as it helps us understand the capitalist system as we know it as well . Of course teachers shouldn't be pushing their ideology whether it be Marxism, neoliberalism or whatever it may be............. We’ll have to disagree on that then. So if you had a teacher favouring capitalism would it be ok for them to teach there views against Marxism? Surely the answer is to teach facts and let the students make there own minds up. I agree teach facts not opinions I am eagerly awaiting my grand children to come home from school and tell me the left have killed far more people than the right could ever dream off
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 2, 2021 9:27:27 GMT
We’ll have to disagree on that then. So if you had a teacher favouring capitalism would it be ok for them to teach there views against Marxism? Surely the answer is to teach facts and let the students make there own minds up. I agree teach facts not opinions I am eagerly awaiting my grand children to come home from school and tell me the left have killed far more people than the right could ever dream off The British Empire probably tops them both.....
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Post by heworksardtho on Mar 2, 2021 9:31:07 GMT
She's British, she's our problem and we should deal with it. Bullet in the head. Waste of a bullet , hanging much better
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 2, 2021 9:33:15 GMT
I agree teach facts not opinions I am eagerly awaiting my grand children to come home from school and tell me the left have killed far more people than the right could ever dream off The British Empire probably tops them both..... 😁
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Post by heworksardtho on Mar 2, 2021 9:35:14 GMT
The Guardian wrote six... SIX articles on Miss Begum yesterday... Seething. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/26/the-guardian-view-on-shamima-begum-she-ought-to-have-her-day-in-courtThis article however, is proof that the Guardian are absolutely counting on getting her home so an exoneration process can begin that more or less involves a whitewash: "it is important to understand how a schoolgirl became radicalised to the point that she quit the country, including the role played by online grooming" .... "it is arguable that she and the other recruits (Ms Sultana is dead, and Ms Abase’s fate is unknown) were victims of terrorism-linked sex trafficking" "But whether Ms Begum was an active participant in acts of terror, or a traumatised witness as some observers believe, she should face justice in the UK" There are numerous witnesses who claim that she was an active and willing participant. Even the Independent reported it (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/shamima-begum-isis-syria-morality-police-suicide-belts-a8869016.html) and they are also relatively left wing. The problem is, such evidence is almost entirely useless in court. The evidence is mostly circumstantial. Witnesses are either dead or living in Syria. There isn't going to be CCTV or even a digital trail that can be used against her. What you'll have, is a prosecution fighting with no evidence while her defence throws in every trick imaginable (groomed, young, sex-trafficking, dead kids, no bodies, no proof etc). The Guardian know that in a UK court, she would be closer than ever to freedom. I think it is incredibly important to understand how and why she became radicalised. What happens if she doesn’t come back here? I am not sure of her situation. Is she in prison somewhere? If the choice is bring her back here to face justice, or leave her to reign free in wherever she is, I’d bring her back. If she is already in prison, leave her there. Why should the U.K. taxpayer fund her stay in prison for the next 20 years , leave her to rot where she is
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Post by cheadlepotter on Mar 2, 2021 11:09:37 GMT
I think it is incredibly important to understand how and why she became radicalised. What happens if she doesn’t come back here? I am not sure of her situation. Is she in prison somewhere? If the choice is bring her back here to face justice, or leave her to reign free in wherever she is, I’d bring her back. If she is already in prison, leave her there. Why should the U.K. taxpayer fund her stay in prison for the next 20 years , leave her to rot where she is Because she’s British. If we had, which we probably have, foreign terrorists over here i’d want them deported and I don’t think you’d react too well if the country they belonged to just said no thanks and that was that and the UK taxpayer had to pay for them.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 2, 2021 11:51:52 GMT
We’ll have to disagree on that then. So if you had a teacher favouring capitalism would it be ok for them to teach there views against Marxism? Surely the answer is to teach facts and let the students make there own minds up. I agree teach facts not opinions I am eagerly awaiting my grand children to come home from school and tell me the left have killed far more people than the right could ever dream off I was teaching in Derbyshire in the 1980s. When I look back on it , they were relatively good times when teachers had more autonomy to be a bit different Amongst other humanities I was teaching RE and PHSE ,as it was then, a newly introduced area of the curriculum. I think it gave the opportunity to expose students to new experiences, as far as possible. I can recall " teaching " drug abuse so rang alcoholics anonymous and " Geoff" gave an amazing talk about his life story.....a high flying Government job, great pay, prestige, home, family lost it all because he needed whisky to get through each day/ each meeting .....until he was found out. You could hear a pin drop. To raise awareness about racism I invited 2 youth worker friends in, Rastafarians.....a mainly white school....the discussion went down well, in fact other studentswere tryingto get in the classroomto ask questions....and look at dreadlocks. RE meant visits to Hindu Temples,Mosques, Gurdwaras, Synagogues etc and visits into the school.....simple stuff but effective. In those days not much consideration was given to dyslexia, ADHD, autism etc....must issues were put down to behavioural difficulties......but I was lucky enough to be in a school with a ( sadly deceased) charismatic, understanding " Head of Special needs " who challenged everything. The following have always stuck in my mind and influenced my approach to education. Learning to Labour, Paul Willis..." what a teacher thinks they are teaching, may not be what some are learning"...ie ....the hidden curriculum, learning to obey, to stick to rules or you get punished, know your place, or school isn't for me, working class kids learn to sell their labour in mind dumbing jobs. Dialogical teaching ,Robin Alexander ... ..Entering a dialogue with students, listening as well as teaching...talking is important, but discouraged in most classrooms. Eg When some people cannot do maths sometimes the problem is understanding the concepts, the vocabulary .....maths needs to be discussed, not simply following rules that work....for some. Steiner Education, creativity and emotions, person centred, it's not a race, teaching the whole person not just intellect. ASDAN, youth award scheme....I was involved in the beginnings of this in the 1980s....the main principle was that the curriculum was negotiated with students, not just top down....in particular it was attractive for those for whom "education" had judged them failures at an early age and then the rest of the school system confirmed it. I don't even think the system should be there to only teach some FACTS now with the advent of the Internet....I think we should be encouraging children to think, to question, but also to develop emotionally, creatively, socially. Apologies for the opportunity to look back a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 11:56:07 GMT
Shamima Begum was a child groomed by radicals. She is British. What has happened today should frighten us all. She was grooming other women and obviously knew exactly what she was doing. don't buy all this sympathy stuff for her. Good to see the UK not playing the big softie as usual.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 2, 2021 11:57:16 GMT
I agree teach facts not opinions I am eagerly awaiting my grand children to come home from school and tell me the left have killed far more people than the right could ever dream off The British Empire probably tops them both..... Not sure about that, 100 million dead to Communism in the 20th Century? Not apologising for the crimes of the Empire but Communism is comfortably the deadliest political ideology ever devised.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 2, 2021 11:59:11 GMT
The British Empire probably tops them both..... Not sure about that, 100 million dead to Communism in the 20th Century? Not apologising for the crimes of the Empire but Communism is comfortably the deadliest political ideology ever devised. I was being slightly facetious to be fair. It's always quite difficult when attributing deaths to particular regimes, I think the number attributed to the British Empire is 29 million but again that's up for debate.....
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Post by oggyoggy on Mar 2, 2021 12:22:12 GMT
I think it is incredibly important to understand how and why she became radicalised. What happens if she doesn’t come back here? I am not sure of her situation. Is she in prison somewhere? If the choice is bring her back here to face justice, or leave her to reign free in wherever she is, I’d bring her back. If she is already in prison, leave her there. Why should the U.K. taxpayer fund her stay in prison for the next 20 years , leave her to rot where she is If the alternative is she is free to do what she wants, I would prefer her locked up here. As I said, I don’t know where she is or what her situation is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 12:25:46 GMT
Not sure about that, 100 million dead to Communism in the 20th Century? Not apologising for the crimes of the Empire but Communism is comfortably the deadliest political ideology ever devised. I was being slightly facetious to be fair. It's always quite difficult when attributing deaths to particular regimes, I think the number attributed to the British Empire is 29 million but again that's up for debate..... Considering the populations in them days,29 million is brutal. Spanish was estimated at 8 million which is huge itself.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 2, 2021 12:26:56 GMT
I was being slightly facetious to be fair. It's always quite difficult when attributing deaths to particular regimes, I think the number attributed to the British Empire is 29 million but again that's up for debate..... Considering the populations in them days,29 million is brutal. Spanish was estimated at 8 million which is huge itself. Absolutely.....
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Post by chuffedstokie on Mar 2, 2021 12:32:00 GMT
I agree teach facts not opinions I am eagerly awaiting my grand children to come home from school and tell me the left have killed far more people than the right could ever dream off I was teaching in Derbyshire in the 1980s. When I look back on it , they were relatively good times when teachers had more autonomy to be a bit different Amongst other humanities I was teaching RE and PHSE ,as it was then, a newly introduced area of the curriculum. I think it gave the opportunity to expose students to new experiences, as far as possible. I can recall " teaching " drug abuse so rang alcoholics anonymous and " Geoff" gave an amazing talk about his life story.....a high flying Government job, great pay, prestige, home, family lost it all because he needed whisky to get through each day/ each meeting .....until he was found out. You could hear a pin drop. To raise awareness about racism I invited 2 youth worker friends in, Rastafarians.....a mainly white school....the discussion went down well, in fact other studentswere tryingto get in the classroomto ask questions....and look at dreadlocks. RE meant visits to Hindu Temples,Mosques, Gurdwaras, Synagogues etc and visits into the school.....simple stuff but effective. In those days not much consideration was given to dyslexia, ADHD, autism etc....must issues were put down to behavioural difficulties......but I was lucky enough to be in a school with a ( sadly deceased) charismatic, understanding " Head of Special needs " who challenged everything. The following have always stuck in my mind and influenced my approach to education. Learning to Labour, Paul Willis..." what a teacher thinks they are teaching, may not be what some are learning"...ie ....the hidden curriculum, learning to obey, to stick to rules or you get punished, know your place, or school isn't for me, working class kids learn to sell their labour in mind dumbing jobs. Dialogical teaching ,Robin Alexander ... ..Entering a dialogue with students, listening as well as teaching...talking is important, but discouraged in most classrooms. Eg When some people cannot do maths sometimes the problem is understanding the concepts, the vocabulary .....maths needs to be discussed, not simply following rules that work....for some. Steiner Education, creativity and emotions, person centred, it's not a race, teaching the whole person not just intellect. ASDAN, youth award scheme....I was involved in the beginnings of this in the 1980s....the main principle was that the curriculum was negotiated with students, not just top down....in particular it was attractive for those for whom "education" had judged them failures at an early age and then the rest of the school system confirmed it. I don't even think the system should be there to only teach some FACTS now with the advent of the Internet....I think we should be encouraging children to think, to question, but also to develop emotionally, creatively, socially. Apologies for the opportunity to look back a bit. Your reference to the maths teaching BJR so resonates with my learning experience, the guy we had certainly knew his stuff and went through everything efficiently but when all you were doing was copying things down in your maths book you certainly weren't 'learning'.
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Post by heworksardtho on Mar 2, 2021 12:32:26 GMT
Why should the U.K. taxpayer fund her stay in prison for the next 20 years , leave her to rot where she is Because she’s British. If we had, which we probably have, foreign terrorists over here i’d want them deported and I don’t think you’d react too well if the country they belonged to just said no thanks and that was that and the UK taxpayer had to pay for them. I know it’s a pity we can’t just shoot them , if she did come back then we would have to lock her up as we could have a situation like that boatboy in reading we Ho murdered those innocent ppl in cold blood in that park
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Post by heworksardtho on Mar 2, 2021 12:33:22 GMT
Why should the U.K. taxpayer fund her stay in prison for the next 20 years , leave her to rot where she is If the alternative is she is free to do what she wants, I would prefer her locked up here. As I said, I don’t know where she is or what her situation is. At the mo she’s in a camp in Syria and she now dresses as a western woman
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 12:34:37 GMT
Considering the populations in them days,29 million is brutal. Spanish was estimated at 8 million which is huge itself. Absolutely..... I watched 'The day they dropped the bomb' the other night, actual footage of Hiroshima briefly and those who witnessed it. Man, was horrible. I know was a while ago but the USA talking about inhumanity etc a bit rich. Don't start me on the film Zulu although most is complete bollox
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 2, 2021 12:42:14 GMT
Not sure about that, 100 million dead to Communism in the 20th Century? Not apologising for the crimes of the Empire but Communism is comfortably the deadliest political ideology ever devised. I was being slightly facetious to be fair. It's always quite difficult when attributing deaths to particular regimes, I think the number attributed to the British Empire is 29 million but again that's up for debate..... Well that surprises me We obviously didn’t do a good enough job we’ve even been piss poor at killing people Stalin managed to kill between 7/10 million (est) Ukrainians in a single year
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 12:56:00 GMT
I was being slightly facetious to be fair. It's always quite difficult when attributing deaths to particular regimes, I think the number attributed to the British Empire is 29 million but again that's up for debate..... Well that surprises me We obviously didn’t do a good enough job we’ve even been piss poor at killing people Stalin managed to kill between 7/10 million (est) Ukrainians in a single year Not known how many died of starvation in India under the British, more than that and possibly up to 3x more so gave him a good run
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Post by jeycov on Mar 2, 2021 13:18:22 GMT
Why isn’t this thread in the Everything Else category?
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 2, 2021 13:19:49 GMT
Well that surprises me We obviously didn’t do a good enough job we’ve even been piss poor at killing people Stalin managed to kill between 7/10 million (est) Ukrainians in a single year Not known how many died of starvation in India under the British, more than that and possibly up to 3x more so gave him a good run Well I’d hate us slide down the death list Can’t have enough sticks with which to beat the country with
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Post by thevoid on Mar 2, 2021 13:27:10 GMT
Why isn’t this thread in the Everything Else category? It is
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Post by flea79 on Mar 2, 2021 13:30:28 GMT
Why isn’t this thread in the Everything Else category? we are looking to sign her as a forward, heard she can be explosive and good with putting heads away!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 2, 2021 13:38:33 GMT
Not known how many died of starvation in India under the British, more than that and possibly up to 3x more so gave him a good run Well I’d hate us slide down the death list Can’t have enough sticks with which to beat the country with I don't think citing history is a stick to beat the country with. I'd like to think we'll learn from mistakes of the recent past for example and stop bombing the shit out of countries in the Middle East in the name of "western democracy" but alas I think I may be disappointed......
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 2, 2021 13:39:10 GMT
Why should the U.K. taxpayer fund her stay in prison for the next 20 years , leave her to rot where she is Because she’s British. If we had, which we probably have, foreign terrorists over here i’d want them deported and I don’t think you’d react too well if the country they belonged to just said no thanks and that was that and the UK taxpayer had to pay for them. Our prisons are full of foreign nationals, if we are forced to take the Begum bitch back then all those in our prisons should be sent back to their homelands fair ?
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 2, 2021 13:40:19 GMT
Why isn’t this thread in the Everything Else category?
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 2, 2021 13:40:34 GMT
Well I’d hate us slide down the death list Can’t have enough sticks with which to beat the country with I don't think citing history is a stick to beat the country with. I'd like to think we'll learn from mistakes of the recent past for example and stop bombing the shit out of countries in the Middle East in the name of "western democracy" but alas I think I may be disappointed...... Should be ok on that one Unless the public loses their minds and elects starmer
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 13:43:41 GMT
Not known how many died of starvation in India under the British, more than that and possibly up to 3x more so gave him a good run Well I’d hate us slide down the death list Can’t have enough sticks with which to beat the country with Well you can't blame any country for what happened decades plus ago but a bit eye opening all the same. It's just when you see some of the things that went on and think how bad they were you realise just as guilty. The British had concentration camps during the Boer war but the Nazis seen as pure evil for doing similar which of course they were.
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