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Post by crapslinger on Mar 2, 2021 13:47:21 GMT
We’ll have to disagree on that then. So if you had a teacher favouring capitalism would it be ok for them to teach there views against Marxism? Surely the answer is to teach facts and let the students make there own minds up. I agree teach facts not opinions I am eagerly awaiting my grand children to come home from school and tell me the left have killed far more people than the right could ever dream off Chairman Mao estimated 78 million deaths attributed to him alone, Stalin up to 60 million the good old caring left
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 2, 2021 13:57:38 GMT
Well I’d hate us slide down the death list Can’t have enough sticks with which to beat the country with I don't think citing history is a stick to beat the country with. I'd like to think we'll learn from mistakes of the recent past for example and stop bombing the shit out of countries in the Middle East in the name of "western democracy" but alas I think I may be disappointed...... I agree with you there Prestwich BUT we have got to be allowed, and allow ourselves, to move on as well. If we keep beating ourselves up with our Colonial guilt we will NEVER have a peaceful society, in the interests of both black and white. Which isn't the same as saying that racism and all other injustices should be ignored and not tackled. Generally today's young generation is very tolerant and a different entity than a) the younger generations of the past b) the governments/ politicians that represent them. In my opinion today's 2 and 3 year old are innocent, but at the rate we are going they will still have to pay the debt and guilt of the distant past when they reach 20....and all will suffer. People like Ghandi and Martin Luther King aimed to bring communities together.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Mar 2, 2021 14:05:58 GMT
Because she’s British. If we had, which we probably have, foreign terrorists over here i’d want them deported and I don’t think you’d react too well if the country they belonged to just said no thanks and that was that and the UK taxpayer had to pay for them. Our prisons are full of foreign nationals, if we are forced to take the Begum bitch back then all those in our prisons should be sent back to their homelands fair ? If they’re here illegally yes. If we gave them citizenship then probably not. Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather see every terrorist have a bullet put through their head but laws are laws and though I’m very much not an expert on that I don’t think exportation will be easy given our open armed approach to immigration.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 2, 2021 14:06:56 GMT
I don't think citing history is a stick to beat the country with. I'd like to think we'll learn from mistakes of the recent past for example and stop bombing the shit out of countries in the Middle East in the name of "western democracy" but alas I think I may be disappointed...... I agree with you there Prestwich BUT we have got to be allowed, and allow ourselves, to move on as well. If we keep beating ourselves up with our Colonial guilt we will NEVER have a peaceful society, in the interests of both black and white. Which isn't the same as saying that racism and all other injustices should be ignored and not tackled. Generally today's young generation is very tolerant and a different entity than a) the younger generations of the past b) the governments/ politicians that represent them. In my opinion today's 2 and 3 year old are innocent, but at the rate we are going they will still have to pay the debt and guilt of the distant past.....and all will suffer. People like Ghandi and Martin Luther King aimed to bring communities together. Absolutely, I agree people of our generations shouldn't around colonial guilt, it should be acknowledged accurately from a historical perspective and used to ensure these kinds of injustices are never repeated in the future. Germany moved on from the Second World War and Nazism for example in the correct way, they acknowledged it, apologised for it, paid for it financially and then allowed themselves to move forward without ever forgetting the historical significance of what happened......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 2, 2021 14:32:33 GMT
I agree with you there Prestwich BUT we have got to be allowed, and allow ourselves, to move on as well. If we keep beating ourselves up with our Colonial guilt we will NEVER have a peaceful society, in the interests of both black and white. Which isn't the same as saying that racism and all other injustices should be ignored and not tackled. Generally today's young generation is very tolerant and a different entity than a) the younger generations of the past b) the governments/ politicians that represent them. In my opinion today's 2 and 3 year old are innocent, but at the rate we are going they will still have to pay the debt and guilt of the distant past.....and all will suffer. People like Ghandi and Martin Luther King aimed to bring communities together. Absolutely, I agree people of our generations shouldn't around colonial guilt, it should be acknowledged accurately from a historical perspective and used to ensure these kinds of injustices are never repeated in the future. Germany moved on from the Second World War and Nazism for example in the correct way, they acknowledged it, apologised for it, paid for it financially and then allowed themselves to move forward without ever forgetting the historical significance of what happened...... And importantly Germany has been forgiven and accepted.....including forgiving and accepting themselves, not constantly beating themselves up but moving forward confidently.....I feel that the nations of the world accept the UK and other Colonial nations in one sense....it is the UK that has an element that won't move on. The idea of paying the debt is arguable....I'm not sure it can truly be paid in financial terms but personally I don't think that's the main issue around forgiveness.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 16:49:51 GMT
I agree with you there Prestwich BUT we have got to be allowed, and allow ourselves, to move on as well. If we keep beating ourselves up with our Colonial guilt we will NEVER have a peaceful society, in the interests of both black and white. Which isn't the same as saying that racism and all other injustices should be ignored and not tackled. Generally today's young generation is very tolerant and a different entity than a) the younger generations of the past b) the governments/ politicians that represent them. In my opinion today's 2 and 3 year old are innocent, but at the rate we are going they will still have to pay the debt and guilt of the distant past.....and all will suffer. People like Ghandi and Martin Luther King aimed to bring communities together. Absolutely, I agree people of our generations shouldn't around colonial guilt, it should be acknowledged accurately from a historical perspective and used to ensure these kinds of injustices are never repeated in the future. Germany moved on from the Second World War and Nazism for example in the correct way, they acknowledged it, apologised for it, paid for it financially and then allowed themselves to move forward without ever forgetting the historical significance of what happened...... For sure. Shouldn't be glorified though in the way that some harp about the glorious British Empire but probably don't know the facts.' It's a knockout' was the ideal way to settle differences.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 2, 2021 18:18:29 GMT
Absolutely, I agree people of our generations shouldn't around colonial guilt, it should be acknowledged accurately from a historical perspective and used to ensure these kinds of injustices are never repeated in the future. Germany moved on from the Second World War and Nazism for example in the correct way, they acknowledged it, apologised for it, paid for it financially and then allowed themselves to move forward without ever forgetting the historical significance of what happened...... And importantly Germany has been forgiven and accepted.....including forgiving and accepting themselves, not constantly beating themselves up but moving forward confidently.....I feel that the nations of the works accept the UK and other Colonial nations in one sense....it is the UK that has an element that won't move on. The idea of paying the debt is arguable....I'm not sure it can truly be paid in financial terms but personally I don't think that's the main issue around forgiveness. Good point. Does anyone well-adjusted blame the current generation of Germans for the Holocaust? Just like whatever the British Empire did, it's nothing to do with them and out of their control as it was before their time (mainly). So no guilt is needed. The irony, of course, is that it's people on the right who get accused of living in the past- yet whenever I see the Empire brought up it's invariably by those of a left wing persuasion 😄 Going back to Begum, I find it interesting that the left constantly try and look for explanations closer to home to try and explain why people like her, the MEN bomber and numerous others join terrorist groups (foreign policy is the usual off the peg excuse). Yet no such consideration is given as to why some people may have been drawn to the far right. You might not like, or agree, with such people but you can't analyse the motivations for one group of wrong 'uns and disregard the other. Be consistent. For instance, some might say that had the authorities in Rotherham acted sooner and not worried themselves with offending potential voters- sorry, I meant members of the public, my bad- the likes of Tommy Robinson and the EDL would've been denied a platform and been an irrelevance.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 2, 2021 18:29:00 GMT
Absolutely, I agree people of our generations shouldn't around colonial guilt, it should be acknowledged accurately from a historical perspective and used to ensure these kinds of injustices are never repeated in the future. Germany moved on from the Second World War and Nazism for example in the correct way, they acknowledged it, apologised for it, paid for it financially and then allowed themselves to move forward without ever forgetting the historical significance of what happened...... For sure. Shouldn't be glorified though in the way that some harp about the glorious British Empire but probably don't know the facts.' It's a knockout' was the ideal way to settle differences. Jesus I'm not convinced that many people now do harp on about the glories of the past , particularly so the younger generation. I think it is perhaps also important to acknowledge what our nearer ancestors did in the second world war....I get that some people also do not want to harp back to that...but somehow do like to criticise the long lost days of the Empire....long gone....in my opinion I think we can at least acknowledge that we now do try to live by a semblance of democracy....which isn't the same as saying we are fair and just society....there will always be challenges.....but there are also worse countries..in terms of freedom of speech/ at least being able to criticise the government. I think it's interesting how the post colonial countries have no problem in largely wanting to stay in the Commonwealth.
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Post by chad on Mar 2, 2021 18:47:16 GMT
I agree teach facts not opinions I am eagerly awaiting my grand children to come home from school and tell me the left have killed far more people than the right could ever dream off Chairman Mao estimated 78 million deaths attributed to him alone, Stalin up to 60 million the good old caring left You can throw Pol Pot in there as well. Another caring left winger
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 2, 2021 19:48:34 GMT
And importantly Germany has been forgiven and accepted.....including forgiving and accepting themselves, not constantly beating themselves up but moving forward confidently.....I feel that the nations of the works accept the UK and other Colonial nations in one sense....it is the UK that has an element that won't move on. The idea of paying the debt is arguable....I'm not sure it can truly be paid in financial terms but personally I don't think that's the main issue around forgiveness. Good point. Does anyone well-adjusted blame the current generation of Germans for the Holocaust? Just like whatever the British Empire did, it's nothing to do with them and out of their control as it was before their time (mainly). So no guilt is needed. The irony, of course, is, that it's people on the right who get accused of living in the past- yet whenever I see the Empire brought up it's invariably by those of a left wing persuasion 😄 Going back to Begum, I find it interesting that the left constantly try and look for explanations closer to home to try and explain why people like her, the MEN bomber and numerous others join terrorist groups (foreign policy is the usual off the peg excuse). Yet no such consideration is given as to why some people may have been drawn to the far right. You might not like, or agree, with such people but you can't analyse the motivations for one group of wrong 'uns and disregard the other. Be consistent. For instance, some might say that had the authorities in Rotherham acted sooner and not worried themselves with offending potential voters- sorry, I meant members of the public, my bad- the likes of Tommy Robinson and the EDL would've been denied a platform and been an irrelevance. “There’s only a handful of posters on here that constantly talk about things in terms of “left” and “right” to be fair.......
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 22:20:35 GMT
For sure. Shouldn't be glorified though in the way that some harp about the glorious British Empire but probably don't know the facts.' It's a knockout' was the ideal way to settle differences. Jesus I'm not convinced that many people now do harp on about the glories of the past , particularly so the younger generation. I think it is perhaps also important to acknowledge what our nearer ancestors did in the second world war....I get that some people also do not want to harp back to that...but somehow do like to criticise the long lost days of the Empire....long gone....in my opinion I think we can at least acknowledge that we now do try to live by a semblance of democracy....which isn't the same as saying we are fair and just society....there will always be challenges.....but there are also worse countries..in terms of freedom of speech/ at least being able to criticise the government. I think it's interesting how the post colonial countries have no problem in largely wanting to stay in the Commonwealth. i agree re the younger gen but the Al Murray types have been known to, the ones he bases the character on.Ii think is something that has been swept under the carpet, education wise. i don't think that saying x and y were a lot worse than the UK was is a justifiable comment but like I said you can't in my opinion be held responsible for what happened back then.
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Mar 3, 2021 0:16:31 GMT
This English teenager girl, Begum, I see that some of you want her shot or hanged.
Do you think that the politicians, high ranking civil servents and Generals of the armed services should get the same.?.
They helped isis in Syria.
This English teenager girls role in isis is nothing compared to theirs
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Post by cobhamstokey on Mar 3, 2021 6:02:23 GMT
This English teenager girl, Begum, I see that some of you want her shot or hanged. Do you think that the politicians, high ranking civil servents and Generals of the armed services should get the same.?. They helped isis in Syria. This English teenager girls role in isis is nothing compared to theirs Explain please? I must have missed that. Have you got any links?
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Post by thevoid on Mar 3, 2021 7:39:36 GMT
This English teenager girl, Begum, I see that some of you want her shot or hanged. Do you think that the politicians, high ranking civil servents and Generals of the armed services should get the same.?. They helped isis in Syria. This English teenager girls role in isis is nothing compared to theirs Explain please? I must have missed that. Have you got any links? Don't feed the troll.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 3, 2021 8:44:31 GMT
Good point. Does anyone well-adjusted blame the current generation of Germans for the Holocaust? Just like whatever the British Empire did, it's nothing to do with them and out of their control as it was before their time (mainly). So no guilt is needed. The irony, of course, is, that it's people on the right who get accused of living in the past- yet whenever I see the Empire brought up it's invariably by those of a left wing persuasion 😄 Going back to Begum, I find it interesting that the left constantly try and look for explanations closer to home to try and explain why people like her, the MEN bomber and numerous others join terrorist groups (foreign policy is the usual off the peg excuse). Yet no such consideration is given as to why some people may have been drawn to the far right. You might not like, or agree, with such people but you can't analyse the motivations for one group of wrong 'uns and disregard the other. Be consistent. For instance, some might say that had the authorities in Rotherham acted sooner and not worried themselves with offending potential voters- sorry, I meant members of the public, my bad- the likes of Tommy Robinson and the EDL would've been denied a platform and been an irrelevance. “There’s only a handful of posters on here that constantly talk about things in terms of “left” and “right” to be fair....... When we're discussing political issues where people have different opinions it's pretty hard not to in fairness. It's a bit like trying not to mention Michael O'Neill in the matchday thread 😄 There is a certain poster who does have to crowbar 'England is a right wing country' into his every post though- he even managed it on the music thread the other day (only kidding Bluers 😉)
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 3, 2021 9:17:58 GMT
“There’s only a handful of posters on here that constantly talk about things in terms of “left” and “right” to be fair....... When we're discussing political issues where people have different opinions it's pretty hard not to in fairness. It's a bit like trying not to mention Michael O'Neill in the matchday thread 😄 There is a certain poster who does have to crowbar 'England is a right wing country' into his every post though- he even managed it on the music thread the other day (only kidding Bluers 😉) There’s also one that mentions “The Left” in almost every post however relevant bless him.....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 3, 2021 9:40:11 GMT
There's a certain poster who defends the left in almostevery post, and is very touchy, about it, but pretends not to
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 3, 2021 9:43:36 GMT
There's a certain poster who defends the left in almostevery post, and is very touchy, about it, but pretends not to You telling me I’m touchy when I’m not touchy doesn’t particularly bother me John but knock yourself out. Now seeing you respond to people criticising Farage, now THAT’S touchy......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 3, 2021 9:47:35 GMT
There's a certain poster who defends the left in almostevery post, and is very touchy, about it, but pretends not to You telling me I’m touchy when I’m not touchy doesn’t particularly bother me John but knock yourself out. Now seeing you respond to people criticising Farage, now THAT’S touchy...... That was a bit touchy
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Mar 3, 2021 9:53:50 GMT
I'm touchy myself.
And it feels great.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 3, 2021 9:54:51 GMT
I'm touchy myself. Under the desk. Glad to see you've stopped doing it in the local park fella......
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 3, 2021 9:55:32 GMT
You telling me I’m touchy when I’m not touchy doesn’t particularly bother me John but knock yourself out. Now seeing you respond to people criticising Farage, now THAT’S touchy...... Thst was a bit touchy Come on John you're a bit too long in the tooth to be this immature......
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 3, 2021 9:57:30 GMT
This English teenager girl, Begum, I see that some of you want her shot or hanged. Do you think that the politicians, high ranking civil servents and Generals of the armed services should get the same.?. They helped isis in Syria. This English teenager girls role in isis is nothing compared to theirs I’d have no problem if Blair felt the touch of a good hemp rope under his chin
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Post by franklin on Mar 3, 2021 11:06:47 GMT
Left or right its all irrelevant to me a knobs a knob.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 3, 2021 11:19:03 GMT
Come on John you're a bit too long in the tooth to be this immature...... But you are ok to be.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 3, 2021 11:54:39 GMT
Left or right its all irrelevant to me a knobs a knob. I agree. Which way it hangs is neither here nor there.
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Post by vokeswagen on Mar 3, 2021 14:53:20 GMT
Left or right its all irrelevant to me a knobs a knob. Unusually, I entirely agree with you on this fella
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Post by vokeswagen on Mar 3, 2021 14:59:10 GMT
Come on John you're a bit too long in the tooth to be this immature...... But you are ok to be. Christ you are a big daft pompous sod bjr
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Mar 5, 2021 21:37:57 GMT
This English teenager girl, Begum, I see that some of you want her shot or hanged. Do you think that the politicians, high ranking civil servents and Generals of the armed services should get the same.?. They helped isis in Syria. This English teenager girls role in isis is nothing compared to theirs Explain please? I must have missed that. Have you got any links? Take your head out of the sun and the express. Open your eyes and mind
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Mar 5, 2021 21:39:07 GMT
Explain please? I must have missed that. Have you got any links? Don't feed the troll. ??
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