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Post by slicko on Nov 23, 2020 7:47:26 GMT
The question that everyone, without exception, should be asked is “what will you do financially to get the country back on its feet?”. I wonder if those self-employed tradesmen will declare their tax on foreigners for the good of the country? If not, then why not. The public sector will be taking a pay freeze/cut and paying taxes. Puts it in perspective doesn’t it. Are these the same tradesmen that have had their livelihoods devastated over the last 7 months, the ones that don't get your holiday pay, your sick pay or your pension? No one in their right mind want's to see public sector pay freezes in the same way that they don't want to see millions in the private sector lose their jobs or be subject to pay freezes/cut's. Nothing about this situation is fair! If you are so unhappy with your pay and conditions do what everyone else has to do and sell your talent's to a higher bidder. Maybe those tradesmen will start to pay back to help the country recover when times inevitably improve for them and their profits return? We are in it together, aren’t we?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 23, 2020 9:08:39 GMT
Now I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan but he iust asked Hancock about taking a pay rise and he couldn’t give a straight answer. If politicians / MPs get a pay rise that truely shameful and pretty much tells us what we already knew that they’re in it for themselves.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 23, 2020 9:12:27 GMT
Now I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan but he iust asked Hancock about taking a pay rise and he couldn’t give a straight answer. If politicians / MPs get a pay rise that truely shameful and pretty much tells us what we already knew that they’re in it for themselves. What a snivelling little prick Hancock is. That's a night out for with a couple of their Spectator mates and hedge fund next door neighbour for most of the Cabinet.........
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 23, 2020 9:19:00 GMT
The best thing that could come out of Covid-19, apart from it going away and we return to normal, would be for Sunak to raise taxes to pay for all the borrowing that has understandably been necessary. Everyone then buys into that, including the rich who usually do everything they can to dodge taxes; thereafter we see that raising taxes to benefit everyone in the country doesn't cause the country to collapse into a black whole of endless recession as the rich and the right often claim, so we keep taxes at the same level and use them to properly fund improvements in the health service, education and all the other public services we all rely on.
It'll never happen of course. For one, the non-dom owned right wing press will go nuts about the idea! And as soon as the next election approaches, the Chancellor will offer tax cuts as bribes to vote Tory as per normal and millions will do so once again, and the same puzzlement about why our public services are so shit and over-stretched and what might be the cause will no doubt slowly re-surface in their minds...
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Post by mattyd2 on Nov 23, 2020 9:19:07 GMT
Now I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan but he iust asked Hancock about taking a pay rise and he couldn’t give a straight answer. If politicians / MPs get a pay rise that truely shameful and pretty much tells us what we already knew that they’re in it for themselves. Personally I think he answered it well, " Wait to see what the Independent Commission say and then take a balanced personal decision based on that. He did sort of say he wouldn't take one, like he didn't when the financial crash in 2009 happened. If he said now that he categorically does not want a pay rise then surely all the other ministers, junior ministers, back benchers etc etc etc would be pressured into doing so, it's all about choice. And Morgan was his usual smarmy self righteous self indulgent self again...Conna stand the prick...Thought Hancock had the better of him TBH.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 23, 2020 9:22:42 GMT
Now I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan but he iust asked Hancock about taking a pay rise and he couldn’t give a straight answer. If politicians / MPs get a pay rise that truely shameful and pretty much tells us what we already knew that they’re in it for themselves. Personally I think he answered it well, " Wait to see what the Independent Commission say and then take a balanced personal decision based on that. He did sort of say he wouldn't take one, like he didn't when the financial crash in 2009 happened. If he said now that he categorically does not want a pay rise then surely all the other ministers, junior ministers, back benchers etc etc etc would be pressured into doing so, it's all about choice. And Morgan was his usual smarmy self righteous self indulgent self again...Conna stand the prick...Thought Hancock had the better of him TBH. Don't see why someone on over £100k a year plus expenses can't read the mood of the country and categorically state that he won't take a pay rise? At the very least he'd claw back a tiny fragment of the respect he's lost while Minister for Health. Oh yes, I forgot, he's in government, different rules of behaviour apply...
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Post by mattyd2 on Nov 23, 2020 9:38:26 GMT
Personally I think he answered it well, " Wait to see what the Independent Commission say and then take a balanced personal decision based on that. He did sort of say he wouldn't take one, like he didn't when the financial crash in 2009 happened. If he said now that he categorically does not want a pay rise then surely all the other ministers, junior ministers, back benchers etc etc etc would be pressured into doing so, it's all about choice. And Morgan was his usual smarmy self righteous self indulgent self again...Conna stand the prick...Thought Hancock had the better of him TBH. Don't see why someone on over £100k a year plus expenses can't read the mood of the country and categorically state that he won't take a pay rise? At the very least he'd claw back a tiny fragment of the respect he's lost while Minister for Health. Oh yes, I forgot, he's in government, different rules of behaviour apply... I also don't see why decisions have to be made during a live TV interview about the vaccine.
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Post by dexta on Nov 23, 2020 10:17:42 GMT
Now I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan but he iust asked Hancock about taking a pay rise and he couldn’t give a straight answer. If politicians / MPs get a pay rise that truely shameful and pretty much tells us what we already knew that they’re in it for themselves. Personally I think he answered it well, " Wait to see what the Independent Commission say and then take a balanced personal decision based on that. He did sort of say he wouldn't take one, like he didn't when the financial crash in 2009 happened. If he said now that he categorically does not want a pay rise then surely all the other ministers, junior ministers, back benchers etc etc etc would be pressured into doing so, it's all about choice. And Morgan was his usual smarmy self righteous self indulgent self again...Conna stand the prick...Thought Hancock had the better of him TBH. behave Hancock wanted to crawl up his own arse... What do you think about Hancock and his team spending 44 thousand pound of tax payers money on takeaways... When people are using food banks more than ever and the kids free school meals
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 23, 2020 11:28:37 GMT
Now I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan but he iust asked Hancock about taking a pay rise and he couldn’t give a straight answer. If politicians / MPs get a pay rise that truely shameful and pretty much tells us what we already knew that they’re in it for themselves. Personally I think he answered it well, " Wait to see what the Independent Commission say and then take a balanced personal decision based on that. He did sort of say he wouldn't take one, like he didn't when the financial crash in 2009 happened. If he said now that he categorically does not want a pay rise then surely all the other ministers, junior ministers, back benchers etc etc etc would be pressured into doing so, it's all about choice. And Morgan was his usual smarmy self righteous self indulgent self again...Conna stand the prick...Thought Hancock had the better of him TBH. I don’t think it should be something that should be open for debate under the current circumstances though I do get why he couldn’t commit. Sometimes it’s about the way you say it.
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Post by franklin on Nov 23, 2020 12:31:04 GMT
Are these the same tradesmen that have had their livelihoods devastated over the last 7 months, the ones that don't get your holiday pay, your sick pay or your pension? No one in their right mind want's to see public sector pay freezes in the same way that they don't want to see millions in the private sector lose their jobs or be subject to pay freezes/cut's. Nothing about this situation is fair! If you are so unhappy with your pay and conditions do what everyone else has to do and sell your talent's to a higher bidder. Maybe those tradesmen will start to pay back to help the country recover when times inevitably improve for them and their profits return? We are in it together, aren’t we? I'm not sure "we are in it together" folk will do almost anything to protect their own and that includes fiddling tax etc.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 23, 2020 12:53:45 GMT
Personally I think he answered it well, " Wait to see what the Independent Commission say and then take a balanced personal decision based on that. He did sort of say he wouldn't take one, like he didn't when the financial crash in 2009 happened. If he said now that he categorically does not want a pay rise then surely all the other ministers, junior ministers, back benchers etc etc etc would be pressured into doing so, it's all about choice. And Morgan was his usual smarmy self righteous self indulgent self again...Conna stand the prick...Thought Hancock had the better of him TBH. Don't see why someone on over £100k a year plus expenses can't read the mood of the country and categorically state that he won't take a pay rise? At the very least he'd claw back a tiny fragment of the respect he's lost while Minister for Health. Oh yes, I forgot, he's in government, different rules of behaviour apply... Well I haven’t heard of masses of labour MPs having turned down the pay rise yet
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 23, 2020 13:02:19 GMT
Don't see why someone on over £100k a year plus expenses can't read the mood of the country and categorically state that he won't take a pay rise? At the very least he'd claw back a tiny fragment of the respect he's lost while Minister for Health. Oh yes, I forgot, he's in government, different rules of behaviour apply... Well I haven’t heard of masses of labour MPs having turned down the pay rise yet Me neither, but in fairness they weren't on the telly being asked at the time. Everyone of them should be clear and concise in explaining how their pay increase should be given to various good causes across their respective constituencies.....
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 23, 2020 13:10:16 GMT
Don't see why someone on over £100k a year plus expenses can't read the mood of the country and categorically state that he won't take a pay rise? At the very least he'd claw back a tiny fragment of the respect he's lost while Minister for Health. Oh yes, I forgot, he's in government, different rules of behaviour apply... Well I haven’t heard of masses of labour MPs having turned down the pay rise yet I think youll find they are going to donate their payrise to some crowd funding effort to bring back Corbyn..... Isnt that kind of them !
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 23, 2020 13:37:08 GMT
Don't see why someone on over £100k a year plus expenses can't read the mood of the country and categorically state that he won't take a pay rise? At the very least he'd claw back a tiny fragment of the respect he's lost while Minister for Health. Oh yes, I forgot, he's in government, different rules of behaviour apply... Well I haven’t heard of masses of labour MPs having turned down the pay rise yet I don’t think this is even political / party thing it’s about doing the right thing as a person regardless of what party your from. Both main parties are hopeless so I’m not taking sides on this. It’s not even like the wage increase will be life changing it’s about thinking of others and doing the right thing.
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Post by dexta on Nov 23, 2020 14:48:25 GMT
Don't see why someone on over £100k a year plus expenses can't read the mood of the country and categorically state that he won't take a pay rise? At the very least he'd claw back a tiny fragment of the respect he's lost while Minister for Health. Oh yes, I forgot, he's in government, different rules of behaviour apply... Well I haven’t heard of masses of labour MPs having turned down the pay rise yet have any of them been asked on the TV about it.like Hancock was and wouldn't give an answer... Or are you saying that members of Parliament should except a pay rise..
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on Nov 23, 2020 20:22:55 GMT
Are these the same tradesmen that have had their livelihoods devastated over the last 7 months, the ones that don't get your holiday pay, your sick pay or your pension? No one in their right mind want's to see public sector pay freezes in the same way that they don't want to see millions in the private sector lose their jobs or be subject to pay freezes/cut's. Nothing about this situation is fair! If you are so unhappy with your pay and conditions do what everyone else has to do and sell your talent's to a higher bidder. The same tradesmen who probably haven’t paid the right tax over their entire working life you mean? I love this argument about pensions too. You mean the pension I pay £450 for every month out of my salary? That pension? It’s not free. Poor you! You are right all those Gardner's and painters & decorators should dig deeper into their pockets so you can further enhance your pension as you are clearly on the breadline. According to the ONS, the number of private sector workers in final salary pensions has fallen by 70 per cent, from 5.3m in 1997 to a record low of 1.5m last year, over the same period, the number of public sector workers with final salary pensions has risen from 4.5m to 5.2m. I am sure you do love it!
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 23, 2020 20:56:11 GMT
Now I’m not a fan of Piers Morgan but he iust asked Hancock about taking a pay rise and he couldn’t give a straight answer. If politicians / MPs get a pay rise that truely shameful and pretty much tells us what we already knew that they’re in it for themselves. Personally I think he answered it well, " Wait to see what the Independent Commission say and then take a balanced personal decision based on that. He did sort of say he wouldn't take one, like he didn't when the financial crash in 2009 happened. If he said now that he categorically does not want a pay rise then surely all the other ministers, junior ministers, back benchers etc etc etc would be pressured into doing so, it's all about choice. And Morgan was his usual smarmy self righteous self indulgent self again...Conna stand the prick...Thought Hancock had the better of him TBH. Strange how they are happy to say they should take the independent advice on this, but when an independent report was produced on Priti Patel they couldn't wait to ignore it.
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Post by Orbs on Nov 23, 2020 21:05:16 GMT
The same tradesmen who probably haven’t paid the right tax over their entire working life you mean? I love this argument about pensions too. You mean the pension I pay £450 for every month out of my salary? That pension? It’s not free. Poor you! You are right all those Gardner's and painters & decorators should dig deeper into their pockets so you can further enhance your pension as you are clearly on the breadline. According to the ONS, the number of private sector workers in final salary pensions has fallen by 70 per cent, from 5.3m in 1997 to a record low of 1.5m last year, over the same period, the number of public sector workers with final salary pensions has risen from 4.5m to 5.2m. I am sure you do love it! It’s not about them digging any deeper it’s about them digging exactly the same as everyone else. They’ve got nothing to do with my pension or me not being on the breadline either - Am I supposed to feel guilty about that? It just doesn’t make any sense - neither do the quoted ONS statistics. None of the points you’ve raised do. The point is, you made out that the pension was some magical gift when in fact it’s paid for every month out of peoples salaries. But you are right that these monthly contributions will mean I’ll be comfortable when I retire. Am I supposed to feel guilty about that too?
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Post by ashleyscfc on Nov 23, 2020 21:57:27 GMT
This guys very marmite But I think he’s got this very wrong. What actually makes him think that the vast majority of teachers and public sector workers actually think they’re entitled to a pay rise. I work in the public sector and am happy to have a pay freeze for however long it takes to get the country back on track. The increases are minimal anyway so it’s a small price to pay. I’m just grateful that I have a job right now as are a lot of the people I work with . It feels like the teachers will be next to get battered by the press just like the Police and NHS workers before them. If he wants to point a finger do it at the unions. I’ve heard some stupid shit in my time. But if you can’t see through this guy (the YouTube video) reasoning in seconds, then quite frankly your a fucking idiot. I’m genuinely in awe of it.
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Post by Soro's Sorrows on Nov 23, 2020 22:05:35 GMT
Poor you! You are right all those Gardner's and painters & decorators should dig deeper into their pockets so you can further enhance your pension as you are clearly on the breadline. According to the ONS, the number of private sector workers in final salary pensions has fallen by 70 per cent, from 5.3m in 1997 to a record low of 1.5m last year, over the same period, the number of public sector workers with final salary pensions has risen from 4.5m to 5.2m. I am sure you do love it! It’s not about them digging any deeper it’s about them digging exactly the same as everyone else. They’ve got nothing to do with my pension or me not being on the breadline either - Am I supposed to feel guilty about that? It just doesn’t make any sense - neither do the quoted ONS statistics. None of the points you’ve raised do. The point is, you made out that the pension was some magical gift when in fact it’s paid for every month out of peoples salaries. But you are right that these monthly contributions will mean I’ll be comfortable when I retire. Am I supposed to feel guilty about that too? If the office of national statistics data doesn't make sense to you then clearly my point's won't either, perhaps reality isn't your strongpoint. Public sector pensions offer far better value than the majority of private pensions and are beyond the dreams of many self employed. I am not asking you to feel guilty about being comfortable, I am simply stating that asking a Gardner or other "tradesman" who may get an extra £30 in cash for working on a Saturday morning and who's average wage is less than that in the public sector, those that don't get holiday pay or the same sick pay and pension privileges to pay more to ensure the public sector get a pay rise may not be the best way to go about it. I don't expect you to agree with me as there does appear to be a strong feeling of entitlement for a pay rise in the public sector and given that the private sector is collapsing around our ears , small businesses going to the wall and millions becoming unemployed then I guess you need to single out one part of society to pay for it. If the millions currently not working in hospitality ever get back into work again you could perhaps go after their tips to fund your next pay rise. After all they have been getting them tax free for years as well.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Nov 23, 2020 22:05:54 GMT
This guys very marmite But I think he’s got this very wrong. What actually makes him think that the vast majority of teachers and public sector workers actually think they’re entitled to a pay rise. I work in the public sector and am happy to have a pay freeze for however long it takes to get the country back on track. The increases are minimal anyway so it’s a small price to pay. I’m just grateful that I have a job right now as are a lot of the people I work with . It feels like the teachers will be next to get battered by the press just like the Police and NHS workers before them. If he wants to point a finger do it at the unions. I’ve heard some stupid shit in my time. But if you can’t see through this guy (the YouTube video) reasoning in seconds, then quite frankly your a fucking idiot. I’m genuinely in awe of it. I guess that makes me an idiot then. You’re clearly more intelligent than I am.
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Post by ashleyscfc on Nov 23, 2020 22:20:12 GMT
I’ve heard some stupid shit in my time. But if you can’t see through this guy (the YouTube video) reasoning in seconds, then quite frankly your a fucking idiot. I’m genuinely in awe of it. I guess that makes me an idiot then. You’re clearly more intelligent than I am. Really don’t see the issue with it, or just playing along?
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Post by Orbs on Nov 23, 2020 22:25:55 GMT
It’s not about them digging any deeper it’s about them digging exactly the same as everyone else. They’ve got nothing to do with my pension or me not being on the breadline either - Am I supposed to feel guilty about that? It just doesn’t make any sense - neither do the quoted ONS statistics. None of the points you’ve raised do. The point is, you made out that the pension was some magical gift when in fact it’s paid for every month out of peoples salaries. But you are right that these monthly contributions will mean I’ll be comfortable when I retire. Am I supposed to feel guilty about that too? If the office of national statistics data doesn't make sense to you then clearly my point's won't either, perhaps reality isn't your strongpoint. Public sector pensions offer far better value than the majority of private pensions and are beyond the dreams of many self employed. I am not asking you to feel guilty about being comfortable, I am simply stating that asking a Gardner or other "tradesman" who may get an extra £30 in cash for working on a Saturday morning and who's average wage is less than that in the public sector, those that don't get holiday pay or the same sick pay and pension privileges to pay more to ensure the public sector get a pay rise may not be the best way to go about it. I don't expect you to agree with me as there does appear to be a strong feeling of entitlement for a pay rise in the public sector and given that the private sector is collapsing around our ears , small businesses going to the wall and millions becoming unemployed then I guess you need to single out one part of society to pay for it. If the millions currently not working in hospitality ever get back into work again you could perhaps go after their tips to fund your next pay rise. After all they have been getting them tax free for years as well. That doesn’t make any sense either. I’m not sure what you’re talking about. For example: Reality not a strong point? How do someone else’s tips fund my pay rise? What am I ‘going after?’ Public sector pensions are better than private ones - yes. And? Pension privileges? What? It’s not a privilege - it’s paid for. It’s quite a simple point I was making in response to your post about the pensions. I certainly don’t feel ‘entitled’ to a pay rise either.
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Post by slicko on Nov 23, 2020 23:15:50 GMT
It’s not about them digging any deeper it’s about them digging exactly the same as everyone else. They’ve got nothing to do with my pension or me not being on the breadline either - Am I supposed to feel guilty about that? It just doesn’t make any sense - neither do the quoted ONS statistics. None of the points you’ve raised do. The point is, you made out that the pension was some magical gift when in fact it’s paid for every month out of peoples salaries. But you are right that these monthly contributions will mean I’ll be comfortable when I retire. Am I supposed to feel guilty about that too? If the office of national statistics data doesn't make sense to you then clearly my point's won't either, perhaps reality isn't your strongpoint. Public sector pensions offer far better value than the majority of private pensions and are beyond the dreams of many self employed. I am not asking you to feel guilty about being comfortable, I am simply stating that asking a Gardner or other "tradesman" who may get an extra £30 in cash for working on a Saturday morning and who's average wage is less than that in the public sector, those that don't get holiday pay or the same sick pay and pension privileges to pay more to ensure the public sector get a pay rise may not be the best way to go about it. I don't expect you to agree with me as there does appear to be a strong feeling of entitlement for a pay rise in the public sector and given that the private sector is collapsing around our ears , small businesses going to the wall and millions becoming unemployed then I guess you need to single out one part of society to pay for it. If the millions currently not working in hospitality ever get back into work again you could perhaps go after their tips to fund your next pay rise. After all they have been getting them tax free for years as well. The point is that we’re in this mess together. Everyone has a responsibility to get the country out of its current debt from large private companies to low paid public sector employees, from painters doing Saturday foreigners to Investment Bankers earning bonuses on a Monday. Soro has chosen well in his career and is being rewarded for that. He doesn’t need punishing for that choice. It’s fairness we’re debating here, not retribution.
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Post by vokeswagen on Nov 24, 2020 9:06:47 GMT
It’s not about them digging any deeper it’s about them digging exactly the same as everyone else. They’ve got nothing to do with my pension or me not being on the breadline either - Am I supposed to feel guilty about that? It just doesn’t make any sense - neither do the quoted ONS statistics. None of the points you’ve raised do. The point is, you made out that the pension was some magical gift when in fact it’s paid for every month out of peoples salaries. But you are right that these monthly contributions will mean I’ll be comfortable when I retire. Am I supposed to feel guilty about that too? If the office of national statistics data doesn't make sense to you then clearly my point's won't either, perhaps reality isn't your strongpoint. Public sector pensions offer far better value than the majority of private pensions and are beyond the dreams of many self employed. I am not asking you to feel guilty about being comfortable, I am simply stating that asking a Gardner or other "tradesman" who may get an extra £30 in cash for working on a Saturday morning and who's average wage is less than that in the public sector, those that don't get holiday pay or the same sick pay and pension privileges to pay more to ensure the public sector get a pay rise may not be the best way to go about it. I don't expect you to agree with me as there does appear to be a strong feeling of entitlement for a pay rise in the public sector and given that the private sector is collapsing around our ears , small businesses going to the wall and millions becoming unemployed then I guess you need to single out one part of society to pay for it. If the millions currently not working in hospitality ever get back into work again you could perhaps go after their tips to fund your next pay rise. After all they have been getting them tax free for years as well. You may find that there are strong feelings around the public sector in places like North Staffs because the Conservative Party systematically destroyed almost all the large scale private sector and nationalised industrial employment here in the 80’s and 90’s. Then didn’t replace it. Like Liverpool, the area was simply left to a “managed decline” (their words not mine). Jobs lost on the pots, in mines and steel etc were eventually replaced from New Labour onwards with larger scale public sector employment. There were also renewed attempts in the 00’s to generate employment in private sectors like logistics (some of it with EU money ironically ). Anyway the upshot is that there will naturally be quite a lot of public sector employees on a Stoke City messageboard. For the simple reason that it was either that or we had many more people on the dole, which would’ve been measurably worse for both the economy and society
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Post by tuum on Nov 24, 2020 15:10:57 GMT
The same tradesmen who probably haven’t paid the right tax over their entire working life you mean? I love this argument about pensions too. You mean the pension I pay £450 for every month out of my salary? That pension? It’s not free.[/quote] My first job out of university was as a Graduate Engineer working in the Public Sector. As a part of my degree I had previously spent 1 yr working in the private sector. The difference between the two was massive. I lasted 18 months in the public sector before I quit and moved to the private sector. I just couldn't handle the lack of drive within the organisation. I thought it may just be the dept. I was in so I moved from Manchester to Leeds within the same organisation but the result was the same. No one seemed accountable for mistakes. No sense of urgency. Problem came in at 4.30pm? It could wait until tomorrow. Same problem in the private sector? You stayed until it was fixed or actions had been put in place to ensure it was fixed as soon as practically possible. When I was with the public sector my pension contributions were matched by my employer. So, there was an element of 'free' money associated with this benefit. This makes a huge difference to your pension pot after 35 yrs of working. Not many private sector people can afford to retire at 50-55 . I appreciate that public sector pensions today may not be as good as they once were but they are still much better than most private sector schemes.
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Post by slicko on Nov 24, 2020 21:37:50 GMT
The same tradesmen who probably haven’t paid the right tax over their entire working life you mean? I love this argument about pensions too. You mean the pension I pay £450 for every month out of my salary? That pension? It’s not free.My first job out of university was as a Graduate Engineer working in the Public Sector. As a part of my degree I had previously spent 1 yr working in the private sector. The difference between the two was massive. I lasted 18 months in the public sector before I quit and moved to the private sector. I just couldn't handle the lack of drive within the organisation. I thought it may just be the dept. I was in so I moved from Manchester to Leeds within the same organisation but the result was the same. No one seemed accountable for mistakes. No sense of urgency. Problem came in at 4.30pm? It could wait until tomorrow. Same problem in the private sector? You stayed until it was fixed or actions had been put in place to ensure it was fixed as soon as practically possible. When I was with the public sector my pension contributions were matched by my employer. So, there was an element of 'free' money associated with this benefit. This makes a huge difference to your pension pot after 35 yrs of working. Not many private sector people can afford to retire at 50-55 . I appreciate that public sector pensions today may not be as good as they once were but they are still much better than most private sector schemes. [/quote] No public sector worker will get full pension unless they work to 67. No one will be getting a pension at 55 or earlier. Conversely the private sector pensions can be as good depending on who you work for. Ask JCB workers or progressive ICT companies. The problem with your experience is that it’s probably not comparable to the other services you worked alongside.
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Post by tuum on Nov 24, 2020 23:37:05 GMT
The same tradesmen who probably haven’t paid the right tax over their entire working life you mean? I love this argument about pensions too. You mean the pension I pay £450 for every month out of my salary? That pension? It’s not free.No public sector worker will get full pension unless they work to 67. No one will be getting a pension at 55 or earlier. Conversely the private sector pensions can be as good depending on who you work for. Ask JCB workers or progressive ICT companies. The problem with your experience is that it’s probably not comparable to the other services you worked alongside. I don't dispute that there are some good private sector pensions out there. I work as a contractor for big oil companies and their employees receive fantastic benefits, especially the Americans. However, when I worked in the UK after moving into the private sector the pension on offer was pitiful. My experience of pension benefits mirrors the findings in the article below. It may not tell the full story but I think the general trend is true enough. www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-8093327/Public-sector-workers-pensions-aristocrats.htmlI know of a couple of public sector people who took early retirement. I am not sure of their exact ages but they were definitely early to mid 50's - maybe 55-56yrs old tops. Admittedly, they would be reduced pensions but the fact is they felt it was enough for them to live on. One of them retired completely. He was offered consultancy work with the Fire Service (his previous employer) but in the end he decided that he liked retirement too much. The other works part time on various committees for local councils. These people retired a few years back and would have been on £50-60k basic per year at retirement. I don't know if the rules have changed in the last 5-7 years but am happy to be updated. I am 55 now and looking at options. I don't have a pension of any note and will be relying on my savings and the stock market to provide me with the funds for my retirement. I just wish I had stuck £10,000 into Bitcoin like some of my colleagues did back in 2014
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Post by Kilo on Nov 24, 2020 23:52:54 GMT
The same tradesmen who probably haven’t paid the right tax over their entire working life you mean? I love this argument about pensions too. You mean the pension I pay £450 for every month out of my salary? That pension? It’s not free.My first job out of university was as a Graduate Engineer working in the Public Sector. As a part of my degree I had previously spent 1 yr working in the private sector. The difference between the two was massive. I lasted 18 months in the public sector before I quit and moved to the private sector. I just couldn't handle the lack of drive within the organisation. I thought it may just be the dept. I was in so I moved from Manchester to Leeds within the same organisation but the result was the same. No one seemed accountable for mistakes. No sense of urgency. Problem came in at 4.30pm? It could wait until tomorrow. Same problem in the private sector? You stayed until it was fixed or actions had been put in place to ensure it was fixed as soon as practically possible. When I was with the public sector my pension contributions were matched by my employer. So, there was an element of 'free' money associated with this benefit. This makes a huge difference to your pension pot after 35 yrs of working. Not many private sector people can afford to retire at 50-55 . I appreciate that public sector pensions today may not be as good as they once were but they are still much better than most private sector schemes. That's not true though, my (sort of) mate retired from Leeds City council at 44 and did around three years of living at home doing his house up before his Mrs left him. He then got bored as he had no house or Mrs to do and started working for the fire service. I also know a planning officer at South Staffs who retired (don't know how old but deffo less than 55). She is receiving a pension but then started back at the same council less than two weeks later as a consultant. Even had a retirement doo with presents and a cake
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Post by slicko on Nov 25, 2020 7:30:16 GMT
I don't dispute that there are some good private sector pensions out there. I work as a contractor for big oil companies and their employees receive fantastic benefits, especially the Americans. However, when I worked in the UK after moving into the private sector the pension on offer was pitiful. My experience of pension benefits mirrors the findings in the article below. It may not tell the full story but I think the general trend is true enough. www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-8093327/Public-sector-workers-pensions-aristocrats.htmlI know of a couple of public sector people who took early retirement. I am not sure of their exact ages but they were definitely early to mid 50's - maybe 55-56yrs old tops. Admittedly, they would be reduced pensions but the fact is they felt it was enough for them to live on. One of them retired completely. He was offered consultancy work with the Fire Service (his previous employer) but in the end he decided that he liked retirement too much. The other works part time on various committees for local councils. These people retired a few years back and would have been on £50-60k basic per year at retirement. I don't know if the rules have changed in the last 5-7 years but am happy to be updated. I am 55 now and looking at options. I don't have a pension of any note and will be relying on my savings and the stock market to provide me with the funds for my retirement. I just wish I had stuck £10,000 into Bitcoin like some of my colleagues did back in 2014 Good point, well made. I can assure you that £50k salaries are not the norm in the public sector. Of say, one thousand employees, that’ll account for maybe 10. No pension can currently be accessed until 56 and then you’ll be so heavily penalised on it that you’d need to be desperate. There’s no automatic entitlement at that age either. It’s at the discretion of the employer.
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