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Post by numpty40 on Dec 20, 2020 21:55:46 GMT
A fit Joe Allen is important to us. Whilst we have coped without him it is just that- coped.
To suggest Tymon Thompson should be starting ahead of him is strange. A good player, full of energy and a knack for a goal. Will be like a new signing for us. The way he was used did play a part in our relegation in that he was picked as a 10 when he shouldn’t have been. We will be a better team for he and Clucas in it. A better player than some give him credit for for me. No we haven't just 'coped', we have improved immeasurably.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Dec 20, 2020 22:01:27 GMT
A fit Joe Allen is important to us. Whilst we have coped without him it is just that- coped.
To suggest Tymon Thompson should be starting ahead of him is strange. A good player, full of energy and a knack for a goal. Will be like a new signing for us. The way he was used did play a part in our relegation in that he was picked as a 10 when he shouldn’t have been. We will be a better team for he and Clucas in it. A better player than some give him credit for for me. No we haven't just 'coped', we have improved immeasurably. Allen as a mainstay in the team - Premier League relegation, and almost relegation from the Championship. Allen out of the team - In the play off mix-up. Yep, we’ve definitely only just about scraped by without our Joey.
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Post by potterpaul on Dec 20, 2020 22:23:15 GMT
I hope we don't fuck everything up just for the sake of a supposedly 'Big Name'.
And that's all I see it as.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Dec 20, 2020 22:24:40 GMT
So who's going to give way for Allen? Powell, Mikel, Clucas, Cousins, Brown or McClean (move Powell to RW)? Can only see a place on the bench for him at the moment but he might have a clause in his contract that says he plays if he's fit. And with the amount of £ he's on the owners will be keen to see him to be earning his keep. Gouranga.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 20, 2020 22:36:56 GMT
So who's going to give way for Allen? Powell, Mikel, Clucas, Cousins, Brown or McClean (move Powell to RW)? Can only see a place on the bench for him at the moment but he might have a clause in his contract that says he plays if he's fit. And with the amount of £ he's on the owners will be keen to see him to be earning his keep. Gouranga. Do those clauses actually exist?
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Post by AlbertTatlock on Dec 20, 2020 22:42:39 GMT
I'm pretty sure they do, why else would Jack have played after dropping so many clangers, they sweeten these big contracts up with things like that so it'll encourage top players to sign. Gouranga.
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Post by stokecitytalke on Dec 20, 2020 22:57:10 GMT
I'm pretty sure they do, why else would Jack have played after dropping so many clangers, they sweeten these big contracts up with things like that so it'll encourage top players to sign. Gouranga. Even though Jack was dropped when it was stated that he was fit......
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Post by numpty40 on Dec 20, 2020 23:08:52 GMT
I don't think for a minute that Joe has a clause in his contract. He is clearly a good pro though and managers like him due to his incessant work rate and adaptability to play with varying degrees of success any role asked of him. However we have a structure in place at the moment that only Joe could disrupt, pretty much like he did when we first signed him.
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 21, 2020 0:52:07 GMT
I don't think for a minute that Joe has a clause in his contract. He is clearly a good pro though and managers like him due to his incessant work rate and adaptability to play with varying degrees of success any role asked of him. However we have a structure in place at the moment that only Joe could disrupt, pretty much like he did when we first signed him. Strangely, a really poor signing for us, which is bizarre because he is a decent player, but we went downhill as soon we started to try to accommodate him. I think its gone under the radar because we actually made so many other signings that were far worse.
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Post by s7oke on Dec 21, 2020 4:37:07 GMT
I don't think for a minute that Joe has a clause in his contract. He is clearly a good pro though and managers like him due to his incessant work rate and adaptability to play with varying degrees of success any role asked of him. However we have a structure in place at the moment that only Joe could disrupt, pretty much like he did when we first signed him. Strangely, a really poor signing for us, which is bizarre because he is a decent player, but we went downhill as soon we started to try to accommodate him. I think its gone under the radar because we actually made so many other signings that were far worse. I think you are correct But we are a better organised team now so hopefully O’Neill’s coaching will see him start afresh and be just what we need instead of him being one of the few players who tried to carry us which made him look bad
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 6:55:09 GMT
Allen brings a lot of energy and it can be infectious but it can also get you a lot of running around going nowhere. Mikel brings the whole team a structure they can evolve around. You may not notice it that much, because he appears to be doing next to nothing. But you notice it a lot when he's not in the team. The last few games he's been missing there's been a void of leadership within the team and a lack of direction. The football hasn't been great, as many have pointed to, without actually admitting why that was. I want to see Allen and Mikel in the same midfield You might. Until Clucas gets fit and claims the other spot in the two man central line.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 7:01:13 GMT
So who's going to give way for Allen? Powell, Mikel, Clucas, Cousins, Brown or McClean (move Powell to RW)? Can only see a place on the bench for him at the moment but he might have a clause in his contract that says he plays if he's fit. And with the amount of £ he's on the owners will be keen to see him to be earning his keep. Gouranga. Cousins and Brown aren't regulars, not that they don't have their uses, and McClean doesn't seem to be as valued this season as last, not that there is really any choice between Allen and McClean. As for Allen's infamous clause. I don't believe that O'Neill will allow himself to be ruled that way.
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Post by lordb on Dec 21, 2020 7:56:48 GMT
I want to see Allen and Mikel in the same midfield You might. Until Clucas gets fit and claims the other spot in the two man central line. Looks like Allen is ahead of Clucas fitness wise
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Post by Bagwash on Dec 21, 2020 8:11:10 GMT
Each to their own but I find it hard to understand some Stokies negativity and dislike of Joe Allen. Even when his performance was below par,which was rare imho,his commitment and work rate could never be questioned. I don't think there is a team in the Championship where Joe would not be a regular.
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Post by pez75 on Dec 21, 2020 8:31:52 GMT
Each to their own but I find it hard to understand some Stokies negativity and dislike of Joe Allen. Even when his performance was below par,which was rare imho,his commitment and work rate could never be questioned. I don't think there is a team in the Championship where Joe would not be a regular. A few of the Prem teams too I would add. Don't worry, you have to understand that people on here like to re-write history according to their agenda. Apparently our downfall and relegation are all Joe's fault. It must be true as we have picked up since his inijury, which is clearly down to him being out of the team and nothing to do with MON at all. I can't wait for him to be back to his best, but you just know that the illuminati on here will be itching for him to have a shit comeback and will be watching his every move waiting for an error to highlight and castigate him for...
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Post by Ron on Dec 21, 2020 8:32:24 GMT
A fit Joe Allen is important to us. Whilst we have coped without him it is just that- coped.
To suggest Tymon Thompson should be starting ahead of him is strange. A good player, full of energy and a knack for a goal. Will be like a new signing for us. The way he was used did play a part in our relegation in that he was picked as a 10 when he shouldn’t have been. We will be a better team for he and Clucas in it. A better player than some give him credit for for me. No we haven't just 'coped', we have improved immeasurably. think it’s fair to say we haven’t just coped.... but the point I make is that I think we’re a better team for him in it. He offers more going forward as was playing well up to the point of his injury. I just think that we can I’ll afford to leave out a player who has the knack of scoring when our main goal threat is injured and it’s unlikely we’ll be able to find an adequate loan or afford a similar standard replacement. I just the love for the 2nd rate players like Brown or Tymon on here, I don’t rate Thompson either but he is ok backup. Cousins rightly getting praise as a result of being a one man midfield latterly. He should rightly be in contention even when Allen back. Seems Allen is a divisive figure. He will however play when fit. Read MON recent athletic interview...it’s very clear that he rightly hold Joe in high regard and it seems that it’s he and Shawcross who have helped MON identify problems.
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Post by pez75 on Dec 21, 2020 8:51:00 GMT
No we haven't just 'coped', we have improved immeasurably. think it’s fair to say we haven’t just coped.... but the point I make is that I think we’re a better team for him in it. He offers more going forward as was playing well up to the point of his injury. I just think that we can I’ll afford to leave out a player who has the knack of scoring when our main goal threat is injured and it’s unlikely we’ll be able to find an adequate loan or afford a similar standard replacement. I just the love for the 2nd rate players like Brown or Tymon on here, I don’t rate Thompson either but he is ok backup. Cousins rightly getting praise as a result of being a one man midfield latterly. He should rightly be in contention even when Allen back. Seems Allen is a divisive figure.He will however play when fit. Read MON recent athletic interview...it’s very clear that he rightly hold Joe in high regard and it seems that it’s he and Shawcross who have helped MON identify problems. He really isn't, read MON's comments in the Athletic article in the other thread. The only divisive people are the idiots on here who need to have at least one Stoke player to kick fuck out of on this mb...
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Post by hardcastle on Dec 21, 2020 9:34:43 GMT
Each to their own but I find it hard to understand some Stokies negativity and dislike of Joe Allen. Even when his performance was below par,which was rare imho,his commitment and work rate could never be questioned. I don't think there is a team in the Championship where Joe would not be a regular. I agree. And it is for that energy that l would like to see him as part of a 'three' further up the pitch, harrying the opposition closer to THEIR box, rather than as part of the 'two' in front of our back four (for which JOM and Cousins are better suited).
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 21, 2020 9:39:27 GMT
Each to their own but I find it hard to understand some Stokies negativity and dislike of Joe Allen. Even when his performance was below par,which was rare imho,his commitment and work rate could never be questioned. I don't think there is a team in the Championship where Joe would not be a regular. I agree. And it is for that energy that l would like to see him as part of a 'three' further up the pitch, harrying the opposition closer to THEIR box, rather than as part of the 'two' in front of our back four (for which JOM and Cousins are better suited). He’s never really worked as a 10 though, and to do that you have to drop Powell, who while not at his best and a bit jaded of late is at least a reasonably regular source of goals and one of the few creative players at the club. That’s before you consider whether what is essentially the worst injury in football has sapped any of that capacity to ‘buzz’.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 11:18:19 GMT
You might. Until Clucas gets fit and claims the other spot in the two man central line. Looks like Allen is ahead of Clucas fitness wise Depends. Allen's limbs may have healed but how match fit is he? Can he runs as much as he is wont to? If not his value to the team decreases further. Clucas' function in the team is different than Allen's. So if both are 100% fit then I think Clucas gets chosen.
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Post by Fred Merger on Dec 21, 2020 11:48:50 GMT
In a fully fit squad,I think MON would start with a midfield 3 of Allen,Clucas & Powell.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Dec 21, 2020 12:24:13 GMT
In a fully fit squad,I think MON would start with a midfield 3 of Allen,Clucas & Powell. In Campbell’s absence, we need Cousins or Mikel playing and push Powell up front with Fletch and one winger. It may leave us a bit narrow but it makes us stronger. We can then revolve that bunch of midfielders as and when.
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Post by skelman on Dec 21, 2020 13:01:31 GMT
Good luck tonight Joe. Hope it all goes to plan and we continue to see you progressing towards that full return to the first team squad. Gently does it, but can't wait to have you back!
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Post by hardcastle on Dec 21, 2020 13:11:10 GMT
I agree. And it is for that energy that l would like to see him as part of a 'three' further up the pitch, harrying the opposition closer to THEIR box, rather than as part of the 'two' in front of our back four (for which JOM and Cousins are better suited). He’s never really worked as a 10 though, and to do that you have to drop Powell, who while not at his best and a bit jaded of late is at least a reasonably regular source of goals and one of the few creative players at the club. That’s before you consider whether what is essentially the worst injury in football has sapped any of that capacity to ‘buzz’. Fair point, but it's unrealistic to expect us to be playing the same eleven players each game in this concertina'd fixture list. I'm thinking a three comprising two from Clucas, Powell and Joe plus one with pace (Brown or Thibauld).
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Post by pmjh on Dec 21, 2020 13:48:50 GMT
He’s never really worked as a 10 though, and to do that you have to drop Powell, who while not at his best and a bit jaded of late is at least a reasonably regular source of goals and one of the few creative players at the club. That’s before you consider whether what is essentially the worst injury in football has sapped any of that capacity to ‘buzz’. Fair point, but it's unrealistic to expect us to be playing the same eleven players each game in this concertina'd fixture list. I'm thinking a three comprising two from Clucas, Powell and Joe plus one with pace (Brown or Thibauld). just thinking the same. I'm not sure there is a first choice nowadays, especially in this truncated season. Assuming we play 4.2.3.1 then we have Mikel Clucas and Allen competing for 2 places depending on form, fitness and the opposition. I think most managers in this division would be quite happy with that. On current form we could probably include Cousins in that. Then we have Thompson, Tymon and Oakley-Booth for backup
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 21, 2020 13:52:14 GMT
Fair point, but it's unrealistic to expect us to be playing the same eleven players each game in this concertina'd fixture list. I'm thinking a three comprising two from Clucas, Powell and Joe plus one with pace (Brown or Thibauld). just thinking the same. I'm not sure there is a first choice nowadays, especially in this truncated season. Assuming we play 4.2.3.1 then we have Mikel Clucas and Allen competing for 2 places depending on form, fitness and the opposition. I think most managers in this division would be quite happy with that. On current form we could probably include Cousins in that. Then we have Thompson, Tymon and Oakley-Booth for backup It’s Cousins and Powell +1 for me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 14:48:18 GMT
Think it may be 433 when all midfielders fit with 3 from Cousins, Allen, Mikel and Clucas. One sitting and two pushing on to suit Clucas and Allen. Moving Powell up to the left of a front 3 where he did ok before.
Not saying that is what I'd do but think MON will do.
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Post by hardcastle on Dec 21, 2020 14:48:43 GMT
Fair point, but it's unrealistic to expect us to be playing the same eleven players each game in this concertina'd fixture list. I'm thinking a three comprising two from Clucas, Powell and Joe plus one with pace (Brown or Thibauld). just thinking the same. I'm not sure there is a first choice nowadays, especially in this truncated season. Assuming we play 4.2.3.1 then we have Mikel Clucas and Allen competing for 2 places depending on form, fitness and the opposition. I think most managers in this division would be quite happy with that. On current form we could probably include Cousins in that. Then we have Thompson, Tymon and Oakley-Booth for backup Do we know what Oakley-Booth's preferred / best position is? Sitting? Attacking mid? Wide mid? Can't say he's stood out much yet (though, of course, there's time aplenty for him to develop)
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Post by pmjh on Dec 21, 2020 14:54:49 GMT
Think it may be 433 when all midfielders fit with 3 from Cousins, Allen, Mikel and Clucas. One sitting and two pushing on to suit Clucas and Allen. Moving Powell up to the left of a front 3 where he did ok before. Not saying that is what I'd do but think MON will do. That's certainly possible as he has been widely quoted as saying 4.3.3 is his preferred formation. He has also said that he does like a plan b, but likes to keep it fairly simple. He prefers to 'tweak' his formations depending on the opposition.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 15:18:04 GMT
In a fully fit squad,I think MON would start with a midfield 3 of Allen,Clucas & Powell. In a fully fit squad, there is no way O'Neill would not play Mikel.
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