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Post by crapslinger on Feb 16, 2021 19:02:47 GMT
Wow I was just asking FFS, I know an old gentleman who worked for Beswicks for many years, not seen him since the Covid outbreak I got some interesting info. from him, we did seem to favour Beswicks when Cartwright was here maybe I am wrong massive apologies for upsetting you. I realise you were just asking! And you really didn't upset me so don't you worry about it! I won't.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 18, 2021 19:23:19 GMT
I've noticed we're advertising for Video Scouts, Recruitment Data Scientists and Recruitment Data Analysts, the new fella getting his team together it seems....... www.stokecityfc.com/news/2020/september/Vacancy-Recruitment-Data-Analyst/This is quite an interesting video on the role of a recruitment analyst (specifically how it worked at Millwall under Alex Aldridge) - and this guy just happens to be the one that Aldridge recruited as our new one (also from his old set-up at Millwall!)
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Post by ilikelamp on Feb 18, 2021 19:30:29 GMT
I've noticed we're advertising for Video Scouts, Recruitment Data Scientists and Recruitment Data Analysts, the new fella getting his team together it seems....... www.stokecityfc.com/news/2020/september/Vacancy-Recruitment-Data-Analyst/This is quite an interesting video on the role of a recruitment analyst (specifically how it worked at Millwall under Alex Aldridge) - and this guy just happens to be the one that Aldridge recruited as our new one (also from his old set-up at Millwall!) Christ he only looks about 16 😂
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 28, 2021 8:59:32 GMT
Just looking at the Brentford team - and the recruitment they've been so praised for. Post-Brexit, seems like it's going to be a very different environment and no-one will be able to go down those avenues in our league. They've obviously got some really good players from Scandinavia and the German and French second divisions - and made £40m from selling Maupay and Benrahma who they picked up from France. That seems to be completely off the table now. The pressure on League One , Prem youngsters and the Scottish Premier is going to be massive now as so few other leagues will be options. Everyone's now got to look in the same small ponds. Even the days off us gambling on a youngster from Europe for our Academy are over.
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Post by chuckrocky on Feb 28, 2021 9:24:07 GMT
Just looking at the Brentford team - and the recruitment they've been so praised for. Post-Brexit, seems like it's going to be a very different environment and no-one will be able to go down those avenues in our league. They've obviously got some really good players from Scandinavia and the German and French second divisions - and made £40m from selling Maupay and Benrahma who they picked up from France. That seems to be completely off the table now. The pressure on League One , Prem youngsters and the Scottish Premier is going to be massive now as so few other leagues will be options. Everyone's now got to look in the same small ponds. Even the days off us gambling on a youngster from Europe for our Academy are over. They’ve also made a huge profit on domestic players. Konsa - bought for £2m sold for £12m Hogan - bought for £750k sold for £12m Woods - bought for £1m sold for £6m Watkins - bought for £1.8m sold for £28m Gray - bought for £500k sold for £9m Egan - free sold for £5m If they don’t go up this season I’m sure they’ll be looking at £30m for Toney.
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Post by hyaduck on Feb 28, 2021 9:27:01 GMT
Just looking at the Brentford team - and the recruitment they've been so praised for. Post-Brexit, seems like it's going to be a very different environment and no-one will be able to go down those avenues in our league. They've obviously got some really good players from Scandinavia and the German and French second divisions - and made £40m from selling Maupay and Benrahma who they picked up from France. That seems to be completely off the table now. The pressure on League One , Prem youngsters and the Scottish Premier is going to be massive now as so few other leagues will be options. Everyone's now got to look in the same small ponds. Even the days off us gambling on a youngster from Europe for our Academy are over. They’ve also made a huge profit on domestic players. Konsa - bought for £2m sold for £12m Hogan - bought for £750k sold for £12m Woods - bought for £1m sold for £6m Watkins - bought for £1.8m sold for £28m Gray - bought for £500k sold for £9m Egan - free sold for £5m If they don’t go up this season I’m sure they’ll be looking at £30m for Toney. Apart from Obi not one foreign player, all with no flair apart from Powell
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 28, 2021 9:31:39 GMT
Just looking at the Brentford team - and the recruitment they've been so praised for. Post-Brexit, seems like it's going to be a very different environment and no-one will be able to go down those avenues in our league. They've obviously got some really good players from Scandinavia and the German and French second divisions - and made £40m from selling Maupay and Benrahma who they picked up from France. That seems to be completely off the table now. The pressure on League One , Prem youngsters and the Scottish Premier is going to be massive now as so few other leagues will be options. Everyone's now got to look in the same small ponds. Even the days off us gambling on a youngster from Europe for our Academy are over. They’ve also made a huge profit on domestic players. Konsa - bought for £2m sold for £12m Hogan - bought for £750k sold for £12m Woods - bought for £1m sold for £6m Watkins - bought for £1.8m sold for £28m Gray - bought for £500k sold for £9m Egan - free sold for £5m If they don’t go up this season I’m sure they’ll be looking at £30m for Toney. Yeah - they seem to have been significantly ahead of the curve in their recruitment processes, both domestically and finding value abroad too. You get the impression most clubs are doing the same kind of things now (even us) - but whether the people in place are as good, only time will tell. And Brexit seems to have removed the foreign part of the recruitment pie, almost completely now.
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 28, 2021 11:35:02 GMT
Just looking at the Brentford team - and the recruitment they've been so praised for. Post-Brexit, seems like it's going to be a very different environment and no-one will be able to go down those avenues in our league. They've obviously got some really good players from Scandinavia and the German and French second divisions - and made £40m from selling Maupay and Benrahma who they picked up from France. That seems to be completely off the table now. The pressure on League One , Prem youngsters and the Scottish Premier is going to be massive now as so few other leagues will be options. Everyone's now got to look in the same small ponds. Even the days off us gambling on a youngster from Europe for our Academy are over. They’ve also made a huge profit on domestic players. Konsa - bought for £2m sold for £12m Hogan - bought for £750k sold for £12m Woods - bought for £1m sold for £6m Watkins - bought for £1.8m sold for £28m Gray - bought for £500k sold for £9m Egan - free sold for £5m If they don’t go up this season I’m sure they’ll be looking at £30m for Toney. Mepham too, although they signed him into their u18s when they had one. Signed on a free and sold for a reported 12m
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 28, 2021 11:41:08 GMT
They’ve also made a huge profit on domestic players. Konsa - bought for £2m sold for £12m Hogan - bought for £750k sold for £12m Woods - bought for £1m sold for £6m Watkins - bought for £1.8m sold for £28m Gray - bought for £500k sold for £9m Egan - free sold for £5m If they don’t go up this season I’m sure they’ll be looking at £30m for Toney. Yeah - they seem to have been significantly ahead of the curve in their recruitment processes, both domestically and finding value abroad too. You get the impression most clubs are doing the same kind of things now (even us) - but whether the people in place are as good, only time will tell. And Brexit seems to have removed the foreign part of the recruitment pie, almost completely now. So, what are the new restrictions in regards to recruiting overseas players post brexit? What is the criteria?
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 28, 2021 12:10:25 GMT
Yeah - they seem to have been significantly ahead of the curve in their recruitment processes, both domestically and finding value abroad too. You get the impression most clubs are doing the same kind of things now (even us) - but whether the people in place are as good, only time will tell. And Brexit seems to have removed the foreign part of the recruitment pie, almost completely now. So, what are the new restrictions in regards to recruiting overseas players post brexit? What is the criteria? Seems to be a points-based system now. You need 15 to get a permit. Prem clubs will be fine with the kind of players they'll be after - but sounds more complicated for the average EFL club who won't generally be in a position to get the types of players who'll easily get to 15. Having just read the criteria, it still seems to be possible to get players who are playing virtually every game for clubs in decent leagues (Belgium, Holland Portugal, Turkey etc) And players playing regularly in South America seem more of an option too worldfootballindex.com/2020/12/work-permits-premier-league-post-brexit-english-clubs-efl-libertadores/www.danielgeey.com/post/five-key-takeaways-from-the-post-brexit-fa-work-permit-rules/
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 28, 2021 12:23:21 GMT
Are there any issues in regards to signing foreign players who are already playing in the UK?
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Post by klingon on Feb 28, 2021 12:30:44 GMT
I used to knock about with Beswick's Gary Mellor before he reached his dizzying, and well deserved heights (and a thoroughly nice bloke). Many a bad night in the Stage Door with Grocott et al. I can't believe he'd do anything to harm Stoke, but that was a long timne ago. He was as Stoke through-and-through as anyone I knew.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 28, 2021 12:34:45 GMT
Are there any issues in regards to signing foreign players who are already playing in the UK? I think they're just assessed the same way as any non-UK based players, with the Championship considered one of the five Band 2 leagues, along with Belgium, Holland, Turkey and Portugal. So anyone playing a good chunk of minutes in the Champo will be pretty much guaranteed to get one
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2021 12:36:48 GMT
They’ve also made a huge profit on domestic players. Konsa - bought for £2m sold for £12m Hogan - bought for £750k sold for £12m Woods - bought for £1m sold for £6m Watkins - bought for £1.8m sold for £28m Gray - bought for £500k sold for £9m Egan - free sold for £5m If they don’t go up this season I’m sure they’ll be looking at £30m for Toney. Mepham too, although they signed him into their u18s when they had one. Signed on a free and sold for a reported 12m It’s a funny discussion really, because we could sell Souttar, Collins, Campbell and (a year or two later) Bursik all for good money. Everyone would then become very very agitated. We didn’t luck into these players, we’ve done exactly what Brentford did. Are Brentford better at doing it more regularly? Yes. They have also used it as part of the club ethos, which isn’t something you would expect us to do when we were in the Premier.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 28, 2021 12:51:42 GMT
Mepham too, although they signed him into their u18s when they had one. Signed on a free and sold for a reported 12m It’s a funny discussion really, because we could sell Souttar, Collins, Campbell and (a year or two later) Bursik all for good money. Everyone would then become very very agitated. We didn’t luck into these players, we’ve done exactly what Brentford did. Are Brentford better at doing it more regularly? Yes. They have also used it as part of the club ethos, which isn’t something you would expect us to do when we were in the Premier. That’s the whole point though isn’t it? That it’s systematic at Brentford and they do it consistently?
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 28, 2021 13:02:34 GMT
Are there any issues in regards to signing foreign players who are already playing in the UK? I think they're just assessed the same way as any non-UK based players, with the Championship considered one of the five Band 2 leagues, along with Belgium, Holland, Turkey and Portugal. So anyone playing a good chunk of minutes in the Champo will be pretty much guaranteed to get one Ok so say for example, we went for someone like Diedhiou at Bristol City over the summer, that wouldn’t be an issue even though his credentials probably wouldn’t meet the criteria if he was playing abroad ?
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 28, 2021 13:07:58 GMT
It’s a funny discussion really, because we could sell Souttar, Collins, Campbell and (a year or two later) Bursik all for good money. Everyone would then become very very agitated. We didn’t luck into these players, we’ve done exactly what Brentford did. Are Brentford better at doing it more regularly? Yes. They have also used it as part of the club ethos, which isn’t something you would expect us to do when we were in the Premier. That’s the whole point though isn’t it? That it’s systematic at Brentford and they do it consistently? Looking at Stoke's bench yesterday and hearing about some of our other youngsters, Stoke may be about to do it consistently too. It was around 10 years ago when Peter Coates said it would take 10 years for the youth setup to start coming to fruition. Hopefully it can be done consistently from now on, and whether that will be as easy now given the Brexit restrictions is a different matter.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 28, 2021 13:23:01 GMT
I think they're just assessed the same way as any non-UK based players, with the Championship considered one of the five Band 2 leagues, along with Belgium, Holland, Turkey and Portugal. So anyone playing a good chunk of minutes in the Champo will be pretty much guaranteed to get one Ok so say for example, we went for someone like Diedhiou at Bristol City over the summer, that wouldn’t be an issue even though his credentials probably wouldn’t meet the criteria if he was playing abroad ? Yeah - think he'd comfortably get one due to the points you get for playing in the Champ - and the % of minutes he's played. Having read those explainers, the foreign market probably is still a goer for us, certainly when we've finally got more FFP flexibility, even if it's a lot more challenging. Scandinavia and the French and German Div 2s look very tricky now
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Post by skemstokie on Feb 28, 2021 13:27:34 GMT
Just looking at the Brentford team - and the recruitment they've been so praised for. Post-Brexit, seems like it's going to be a very different environment and no-one will be able to go down those avenues in our league. They've obviously got some really good players from Scandinavia and the German and French second divisions - and made £40m from selling Maupay and Benrahma who they picked up from France. That seems to be completely off the table now. The pressure on League One , Prem youngsters and the Scottish Premier is going to be massive now as so few other leagues will be options. Everyone's now got to look in the same small ponds. Even the days off us gambling on a youngster from Europe for our Academy are over. People who voted out did not realise what living the E U would change.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 28, 2021 13:27:42 GMT
Scandinavia and the French and German Div 2s look very tricky now How many players have we ever signed from these leagues?
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 28, 2021 13:28:49 GMT
Scandinavia and the French and German Div 2s look very tricky now How many players have we ever signed from these leagues? Off the top of my head, none. But think Norwich and Brentford have had some success there.
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 28, 2021 13:34:44 GMT
How many players have we ever signed from these leagues? Off the top of my head, none. But think Norwich and Brentford have had some success there. It’s certainly an area where we have missed out on some talent. I have to wonder if we’ve ever had representatives even looking at the likes of Said Benrahma when he was in the French second tier.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Feb 28, 2021 13:48:24 GMT
Mepham too, although they signed him into their u18s when they had one. Signed on a free and sold for a reported 12m It’s a funny discussion really, because we could sell Souttar, Collins, Campbell and (a year or two later) Bursik all for good money. Everyone would then become very very agitated. We didn’t luck into these players, we’ve done exactly what Brentford did. Are Brentford better at doing it more regularly? Yes. They have also used it as part of the club ethos, which isn’t something you would expect us to do when we were in the Premier. We’re Stoke though. Souttar, Collins, Campbell and Bursik sales probably wouldn’t reach the £28m Brentford got for one player.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 28, 2021 13:52:19 GMT
Looking at the top 10 goalscorers in the Champo at the minute they mostly fall into a category that shouldn't put us off thinking we can sign a player like it. You have Armstrong, Joao, Pukki, Mooore, Woodrow, Powell and Buendia that were free-2m. Toney at 5m Then Solanke and Ayew who were PL signings for massive money. It shouldn't be that difficult and indeed we have one in that top ten. Maybe Brown can be our 2 million pound man?
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 31, 2021 10:17:54 GMT
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 31, 2021 11:27:38 GMT
All this data analysis seems to be the way forward but just to counter it with an alternative view, let’s not forget that Jacob Brown was a data driven signing based on his performances for Barnsley which were very similar to that of Lowe last season at Wigan. The other factor is crucial. We can have all the data in the world but a computer will never be able to analyse what goes on in a players head. Confidence and mental toughness does not appear on a heat map, or a running chart but it’s critical in a players performance.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 31, 2021 11:32:21 GMT
Looking at the top 10 goalscorers in the Champo at the minute they mostly fall into a category that shouldn't put us off thinking we can sign a player like it. You have Armstrong, Joao, Pukki, Mooore, Woodrow, Powell and Buendia that were free-2m. Toney at 5m Then Solanke and Ayew who were PL signings for massive money. It shouldn't be that difficult and indeed we have one in that top ten. Maybe Brown can be our 2 million pound man? Toney was £11 million
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 31, 2021 11:45:17 GMT
All this data analysis seems to be the way forward but just to counter it with an alternative view, let’s not forget that Jacob Brown was a data driven signing based on his performances for Barnsley which were very similar to that of Lowe last season at Wigan. The other factor is crucial. We can have all the data in the world but a computer will never be able to analyse what goes on in a players head. Confidence and mental toughness does not appear on a heat map, or a running chart but it’s so crucial in a players performance. Is there a method that can though?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 31, 2021 11:48:30 GMT
Looking at the top 10 goalscorers in the Champo at the minute they mostly fall into a category that shouldn't put us off thinking we can sign a player like it. You have Armstrong, Joao, Pukki, Mooore, Woodrow, Powell and Buendia that were free-2m. Toney at 5m Then Solanke and Ayew who were PL signings for massive money. It shouldn't be that difficult and indeed we have one in that top ten. Maybe Brown can be our 2 million pound man? Toney was £11 million 5 with add ons I thought?
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Post by lordb on Mar 31, 2021 12:00:38 GMT
5 with add ons I thought? itwas reported as £11m then later as £5m + add ons then later as £11m so fuck knows
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