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Post by bojanwonder on Aug 15, 2020 8:17:43 GMT
I think that's a very helpful audit trail and analysis, Scouse. Thank you. Of course, it is further complicated by the truth that some who have already brought EB season cards may not wish to use them whilst restrictions are in place, either because of personal health concerns or because they simply can't be bothered with it all ( as some have said on here). And the capacity laid down by the rules, at least in theory, is not a fixed figure because people can sit next to those from the same household or with whom they are in bubble, but not next to others. Our family have 5 season cards from 4 different households, 2 of which are in a bubble with each other ! Situations of that kind with grandparents etc will not be uncommon. Indeed Malcolm. The situation has altered massively since the first EB window opened, on so many levels. It's looking almost certain that the club won't be able to provide the service that they originally put up for sale and even if they CAN do so, some (possibly many) purchasers simply won't even want it anymore, when it's offered in such a different way. In light of this, I suppose the club could elect to refund EVERYBODY who purchased a season ticket in the first EB window and simply start the process again by presenting people with a NEW product for sale. This is what it actually IS, this is what it's going to cost you, do you want to buy it? Obviously they're not going to be able to tell customers what service they can actually provide for a good while yet. One thing that complicates your suggestion to refund EB purchases (and I'm not saying it's a bad idea btw) is that some people purchased their season tickets on finance, me included, so I now have a twelve month credit agreement with V12 finance. Not sure how that would work in terms of refunding?
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Post by StaffordPotter on Aug 15, 2020 9:51:14 GMT
I did hear that there was discussion about closing the toilets at half time to avoid this problem ( seriously ! ) but that would probably only bring the problem forward to the period before half-time and increase what they call the "brush past" factor in the seated areas. The SGSA guide appears remarkably silent on this. The only bit I've noticed says For example, it is likely that spectators will spend longer in toilet areas owing to the need to wash their hands thoroughly, as recommended by public health authorities to prevent the spread of COVID-19. To avoid excessive queues in this scenario, it may therefore be necessary to provide additional hand washing facilities away from toilet areas. This approach is particularly recommended if those facilities can be located out of doors, thereby reducing the COVID-19 health risks associated with crowded indoor facilitiesI assume that there will be appropriate markings and maybe controlled entry on the number in at one time. In the gents probably alternate urinals taken out of use. Would obviously need a lot but portaloos? With a gate open for in and one for out and sanitiser at these exit and entry points or stuck on outside of bog. Only issue I see is potential for dicks tipping em over etc etc but stick a couple of coppers there be fine. I digress but Footballs the only place I see the police actively police/go over the top without consequence so sorted People tipping over portaloos? Get a grip.
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Post by Scouse on Aug 15, 2020 10:25:26 GMT
Jamesdoh As I’ve posted previously , the early bird sale period ran its original planned and announced course 6th March -6 April ..it didn’t close early , what happened was that the club announced due to financial issues relating to Covid that there’d be a 2nd window ( a short sighted ‘ promise’ IMO as reduced capacities were already being talked about by supporters at that time ) if the capacity has been reached then imo then the window shouldn’t reopen.In the same way as you wouldn’t expect the club to sell 40,000 STs in normal times for a 30,000 capacity stadium. I presume one of the reasons the club have yet to announce the date EB will go back on sale is they’re awaiting clarification on capacity and the legal points attributed to selling more tickets than they may have room for , particularly if they do that knowingly Whilst I can understand your mathematical and legal logic, Scouse, the problem of course, is that even if you think it was a short-sighted promise, it was a promise, which was made with the interests of fans at heart. Of course, hindsight is always a wonderful thing, and none of us knew at the beginning of April just how serious and long-lasting all this would become. A lot of fans, for very understandable financial and convenience reasons, leave their early bird purchase until towards the end of the window. We were due to play Barnsley at home on 4th April, 2 days before it closed. If, for example, you were a longstanding season card holder who had planned to renew on that day, but following the announcement of a second window decided to wait until that, you would be very aggrieved to now be told that you are to be lower priority than those who had renewed earlier in the window. Personally I don't think that would be a sustainable position for the Club to take or one which they would win if a complaint was made to the Independent Football Ombudsman. I think we would all agree that this is not an easy problem to solve, by any means. Totally agree Malcolm , whilst I’ve a vested interest in putting a case that best suits my circumstances .. I’m certainly not blinkered to others who’ll have other concerns .some of them directly opposing..as a matter of fairness , I’ll help point others to relevant bits , but it’s for them or others to make their case ..Once the promise was made , fans that haven’t bought will understandably ( I presume ) use what the club said in helping them oppose any change of mind by the club indeed I have great sympathy for those at the club that have to make the decisions ..firstly of course based on keeping the club afloat , then not alienating any particular group of supporters in favour of others ( Solomon) .. IMHO when tough decisions are made it’s the ‘ hardcore’ supporter / customer who are easiest to alienate in any business ..sure they’ll moan ,but they’re in the minority and will be seen as likely to moan but continue with their support .. .. the less committed are more likely to walk away ..possibly permanently , its therefore vital that the hardcore ( lots will take exception to that term ) aren’t treated as cannon fodder by the club or supporters representatives
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Aug 15, 2020 11:40:10 GMT
[/quote] indeed I have great sympathy for those at the club that have to make the decisions ..firstly of course based on keeping the club afloat , then not alienating any particular group of supporters in favour of others ( Solomon) .. IMHO when tough decisions are made it’s the ‘ hardcore’ supporter / customer who are easiest to alienate in any business ..sure they’ll moan ,but they’re in the minority and will be seen as likely to moan but continue with their support .. .. the less committed are more likely to walk away ..possibly permanently , its therefore vital that the hardcore ( lots will take exception to that term ) aren’t treated as cannon fodder by the club or supporters representatives [/quote][/i] Good point, Scouse, but I think football is actually very different to most businesses in that regard. If I am a longstanding, regular, loyal, hardcore ( whatever word we choose) customer of a particular supermarket or car repair business, and get treated, as I perceive it, very badly, I can choose to switch to one of their local competitors. But football loyalties aren't like that. It's what the marketing professionals call 100% brand loyalty. If you are I are treated badly by Stoke City, we're not going to switch to watching the Vale or Crewe ( or Liverpool in your case ). It's possible that some such supporters might stop going to live football at the upper levels at all, but, as you say that will only be a small number, and, as you say, the club will (rightly) be concerned to keep the less "hardcore". There is also a generational dimension to this. If,say, the period of holding a season ticket (longstanding loyalty) is the main determinant of priority, as some have argued it should be, whilst that would suit me OK, what about my grandchildren, who have, obviously, only had one for a year or two, but are the stokies of the future ? I think anyone who argues that there is a self-evidently simple and "right" solution to this problem ( the scale or even the existence of which we, the supporters, don't know, even if the Club does) either haven't understood it and/or are arguing only from self-interest.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Aug 15, 2020 11:51:15 GMT
Indeed Malcolm. The situation has altered massively since the first EB window opened, on so many levels. It's looking almost certain that the club won't be able to provide the service that they originally put up for sale and even if they CAN do so, some (possibly many) purchasers simply won't even want it anymore, when it's offered in such a different way. In light of this, I suppose the club could elect to refund EVERYBODY who purchased a season ticket in the first EB window and simply start the process again by presenting people with a NEW product for sale. This is what it actually IS, this is what it's going to cost you, do you want to buy it? Obviously they're not going to be able to tell customers what service they can actually provide for a good while yet. One thing that complicates your suggestion to refund EB purchases (and I'm not saying it's a bad idea btw) is that some people purchased their season tickets on finance, me included, so I now have a twelve month credit agreement with V12 finance. Not sure how that would work in terms of refunding? I wouldn't anticipate it would be too difficult to refund those customers too. There would be (in the grand scheme of things) a very small amount of interest that V12 would want to hang on to, which I'm sure the club would be prepared to cover, in order to make the entire process easier for everybody who has renewed.
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 15, 2020 11:52:29 GMT
Just popped telly on for 10 minutes and an athletic meeting from Monaco is on from last night. A good few thousand there all masked up but social distancing looks suspicious
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Post by bojanwonder on Aug 15, 2020 12:03:10 GMT
One thing that complicates your suggestion to refund EB purchases (and I'm not saying it's a bad idea btw) is that some people purchased their season tickets on finance, me included, so I now have a twelve month credit agreement with V12 finance. Not sure how that would work in terms of refunding? I wouldn't anticipate it would be too difficult to refund those customers too. There would be (in the grand scheme of things) a very small amount of interest that V12 would want to hang on to, which I'm sure the club would be prepared to cover, in order to make the entire process easier for everybody who has renewed. Yeah you're probably right. The interest really is minimal anyway. I would probably carry on making my payments if the was an option tbh, with a view to this year's season ticket being carried over to the21/22 season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 20:06:19 GMT
Would obviously need a lot but portaloos? With a gate open for in and one for out and sanitiser at these exit and entry points or stuck on outside of bog. Only issue I see is potential for dicks tipping em over etc etc but stick a couple of coppers there be fine. I digress but Footballs the only place I see the police actively police/go over the top without consequence so sorted People tipping over portaloos? Get a grip. Get a grip? Have you been in an away end before? Vales got smashed and they weren't temporary.
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Post by FullerMagic on Aug 16, 2020 8:03:47 GMT
The more you read about the broad outlines, the more it does seem an absolute minefield for clubs. And it doesn't exactly sound like much fun. theathletic.co.uk/1996223/2020/08/16/return-fans-coronavirus-project-restart/Probably no non-season ticket holders Probably no away fans. Probably no food and drink One-way systems and perspex screens in toilets. Additional portaloos Max of 30% capacities, but toilet capacity and concourse width may mean as low as 20% at even some Premier League grounds At least a metre between groups of fans. Maximum of 6 fans together, from 2 different households Assigned arrival times for fans Ballots and loyalty point calculation for season ticket holders who may get to only half the games with refunds for games not attended Fans may not be in usual block, let alone seat Temperature checks on arrival Mandatory masks
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Post by chuckrocky on Aug 16, 2020 8:07:40 GMT
The more you read about the broad outlines, the more it does seem an absolute minefield for clubs. And it doesn't exactly sound like much fun. theathletic.co.uk/1996223/2020/08/16/return-fans-coronavirus-project-restart/Probably no non-season ticket holders Probably no away fans. Probably no food and drink One-way systems and perspex screens in toilets. Additional portaloos Max of 30% capacities, but toilet capacity and concourse width may mean as low as 20% at even some Premier League grounds At least a metre between groups of fans. Maximum of 6 fans together, from 2 different households Assigned arrival times for fans Ballots and loyalty point calculation for season ticket holders who may get to only half the games with refunds for games not attended Fans may not be in usual block, let alone seat Temperature checks on arrival Mandatory masks I don’t think they’ll have any trouble with how to allocate the available tickets, I’d be staggered if we had 10,000 fans willing to go through that just to watch a game of football.
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Post by bloodtypered on Aug 16, 2020 9:11:04 GMT
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Post by stokeykez on Aug 16, 2020 9:12:27 GMT
Cruel, just as we have something to cheer about after 4years in the monastery
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 16, 2020 10:02:44 GMT
Unenforceable surely. Imagine stewards piling in, carnage ensues
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 10:03:02 GMT
Gadaffi had the right idea- he banned music and instruments became illegal
he never had to put up with the likes of Radio 1, Baltimora and The Human League as a result. Way to go Gadaffi
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 16, 2020 10:06:43 GMT
I'm probably off at a tangent here so apologies. The whole concept intrigues and worries me.
Let's be positive and say 9000 are allowed, the whole who attends is a minefield for the club and they are in a no win situation.
Myself for example might be told I can go 1 in 3. That game is Reading ( yawn ) but I then miss Derby and Forest .
I really can't see how clubs in the top two divisions are going to make this work and also keeps fans appeased
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Post by maninasuitcase on Aug 16, 2020 10:09:53 GMT
Gadaffi had the right idea- he banned music and instruments became illegal he never had to put up with the likes of Radio 1, Baltimora and The Human League as a result. Way to go Gadaffi A life without tarzan boy isnt a life worth living.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 10:19:28 GMT
Gadaffi had the right idea- he banned music and instruments became illegal he never had to put up with the likes of Radio 1, Baltimora and The Human League as a result. Way to go Gadaffi A life without tarzan boy isnt a life worth living. I think people doing Tarzan impressions at school discos was the breaking point. sing along 'Monkey business on a sunny afternoon............' I believe they were the words .No idea
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 16, 2020 10:22:30 GMT
Gadaffi had the right idea- he banned music and instruments became illegal he never had to put up with the likes of Radio 1, Baltimora and The Human League as a result. Way to go Gadaffi Yes, and it all ended so well for him! I am assured by a friend in MI6 that Stokies from block 19 played a large part in Gadaffi's demise in revenge for his support of the IRA during the troubles!
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Post by stokeykez on Aug 16, 2020 10:26:19 GMT
Unenforceable surely. Imagine stewards piling in, carnage ensues No doubt mein fuerer will be in her element in block 19
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Post by mattador78 on Aug 16, 2020 10:27:43 GMT
Unenforceable surely. Imagine stewards piling in, carnage ensues No doubt mein fuerer will be in her element in block 19 Snatch squad leader 😉
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Post by franklin on Aug 16, 2020 10:28:22 GMT
Daftest thing I heard never going to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2020 10:28:28 GMT
Gadaffi had the right idea- he banned music and instruments became illegal he never had to put up with the likes of Radio 1, Baltimora and The Human League as a result. Way to go Gadaffi Yes, and it all ended so well for him! I am assured by a friend in MI6 that Stokies from block 19 played a large part in Gadaffi's demise in revenge for his support of the IRA during the troubles! I doubt they could spell IRA. He was Nelson Mandela's good pal and supported him during his erm...lesser spoken about days...in fact Mandela's grandson is called Gadaffi Anyway....the singing ban. I think sign language could be the answer. Anyone know sign language for 'Come on Stoke' or ' Gary Rowett,your football is shit' ?
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Post by marylandstoke on Aug 16, 2020 10:32:54 GMT
Unenforceable surely. Imagine stewards piling in, carnage ensues No doubt mein fuerer will be in her element in block 19 She’s at home watching Roadhouse on loop and masterbating at the prospect.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Aug 16, 2020 10:43:17 GMT
Can we hum the songs??? 🤔
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Post by StaffordPotter on Aug 16, 2020 11:03:49 GMT
Sod that. I'd rather not bother.
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Post by RF10 on Aug 16, 2020 11:23:35 GMT
So say everyone in the stadium starts to sing how is this going to be controlled?
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Post by chigstoke on Aug 16, 2020 11:25:02 GMT
Yes, and it all ended so well for him! I am assured by a friend in MI6 that Stokies from block 19 played a large part in Gadaffi's demise in revenge for his support of the IRA during the troubles! I doubt they could spell IRA. He was Nelson Mandela's good pal and supported him during his erm...lesser spoken about days...in fact Mandela's grandson is called Gadaffi Anyway....the singing ban. I think sign language could be the answer. Anyone know sign language for 'Come on Stoke' or ' Gary Rowett,you football is shit' ? I know how to say 'Oh crap, my horse exploded' in sign language. It's of no relevance to 'Come on Stoke' or 'Gary Rowett, your football is shit', but I know how to say it.
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 16, 2020 11:25:23 GMT
Can we hum the songs??? 🤔
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Post by spitthedog on Aug 16, 2020 11:27:23 GMT
It's about 3 years since I heard any singing at a Stoke game anyway tbh
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Aug 16, 2020 11:30:03 GMT
Won’t be a problem, more atmosphere in space.
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