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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 9:36:18 GMT
Post by bringitondown on Nov 25, 2020 9:36:18 GMT
I do find it very strange how you can play and train as a left back or left wing back for so long and still look so defensively inept. Yet, playing in the in midfield 3 seemed to read the game and understand his position just fine.
Fair enough that you can see physically he might not be up to it defensively but his reading of defensive situations is poor.
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 9:41:11 GMT
Post by roylandstoke on Nov 25, 2020 9:41:11 GMT
Very poor last night and rightly hooked at half time. He's a decent player but he seems to be quite fragile mentally. He had the chance to really make that position his own but I'd expect McClean to walk back in after such a disappointing display.
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Post by a on Nov 25, 2020 10:00:36 GMT
Or just play him in the position he’s most effectual in? Which is? It’s becoming a smaller list. Not LB, Not LWB, LW next on the list of positions he’s not good enough in. Maybe he’s just, not good enough?!
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 13:00:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 13:00:52 GMT
Or just play him in the position he’s most effectual in? Which is? Attacking midfielder, Not a left back or wing back
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2020 13:37:38 GMT
Attacking midfielder, Not a left back or wing back So again, who are you dropping to play him?
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 13:53:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 13:53:37 GMT
There seems to be a mentality issue with Josh similar to Rowetts issue of shitting himself at the point of promotion, Josh seems to shit it at the point of becoming a regular. He has ability, there's no doubting that, just needs to apply it on a consistent basis. That's a very poor comparison. And it doesn't take in the problem that Tymon's manager consistently picks him in a position that the player isn't comfortable in. Pick him in central midfield, attacking midfield, or don't pick him at all. He could have played him in central, while Clucas was injured, if he wanted to see how that would work out. O'Neill's probably been the best manager for Josh in that he picked him off of being virtually in the scrapyard, but he's also as bad as the others by trying to turn him into something he's not. I can understand O'Neill's position. The left back he signed is not a wingback, the winger can't understand the defensive aspects of the wingback position, so Tymon is the last leftsided player of a bad wb lot that he can resort to. The purpose of playing wingbacks is that you have wide players that can do both aspects, defending and attacking. We don't have any such players on either side, and yet O'Neill keeps returning to the system, despite the consistent problems in it. Whereas we have two players that can do the fb positions, not great, but they know what to do. It's brought us good results. Yet O'Neill discards the 4231 that seemingly suits the team.
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 13:57:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 13:57:04 GMT
Attacking midfielder, Not a left back or wing back So again, who are you dropping to play him? Vs Norwich, Brown. Who was in for McClean, so while McClean is out you explore the different options of having someone in his position.
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 13:59:03 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 13:59:03 GMT
Does he need a loan? He seems to veer between very good and very shit. I do feel like there is a player in there. No. And we don't need to lose any players with seven men out.
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 14:03:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 14:03:12 GMT
We know he’s not a left wing back. We knew that before last night. Where did that selection come from? When I saw the team I hoped he would play in midfield to give us that extra man in there that we needed from Saturday. Alas..... The problem is, he is a wing back or a full back. That is where he has played for his entire career, as short as it is. It's where his managers have played him, because he's leftsided and has pace, That doesn't mean it's his best position. He's upped his game when he was allowed to play where he likes to play which is central midfield. So maybe that's his best position?
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 14:35:45 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2020 14:35:45 GMT
So again, who are you dropping to play him? Vs Norwich, Brown. Who was in for McClean, so while McClean is out you explore the different options of having someone in his position. I was replying to the poster who said the position he played against Norwich wasn't his best position though. He hasn't shown consistent enough form to be a starter in any position. He's looked well off it in most games.
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 14:52:44 GMT
via mobile
Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 25, 2020 14:52:44 GMT
I still can’t believe he’s only 21!!!! With that in mind a January loan maybe an option. He’s not quite there despite the odd encouraging performance off the bench. There’s a player lurking in there somewhere🤔
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 15:21:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 15:21:10 GMT
Vs Norwich, Brown. Who was in for McClean, so while McClean is out you explore the different options of having someone in his position. I was replying to the poster who said the position he played against Norwich wasn't his best position though. He hasn't shown consistent enough form to be a starter in any position. He's looked well off it in most games. I agree with the poster who said the position he played against Norwich wasn't his best position. He hasn't been played in his best position to give him a chance to simply do his best bit for the team. He hasn't been played consistently enough to give him any chance to show consistency. Until that happens you are right for all the wrong reasons.
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 15:24:58 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 15:24:58 GMT
I still can’t believe he’s only 21!!!! With that in mind a January loan maybe an option. He’s not quite there despite the odd encouraging performance off the bench. There’s a player lurking in there somewhere🤔 He's already wasted much of his career by going on several loans that didn't do him, or us, any good. Well perhaps the loan in Portugal did some good, because he was praised a lot, but the player was standing in for returned and so he was no longer needed. At 21 he needs to play regularly for his own team or be moved on for good, to restart his career.
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 15:29:18 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2020 15:29:18 GMT
I was replying to the poster who said the position he played against Norwich wasn't his best position though. He hasn't shown consistent enough form to be a starter in any position. He's looked well off it in most games. I agree with the poster who said the position he played against Norwich wasn't his best position. He hasn't been played in his best position to give him a chance to simply do his best bit for the team. He hasn't been played consistently enough to give him any chance to show consistency. Until that happens you are right for all the wrong reasons. So humour me, how does that change? And assuming he's given that opportunity, what do you expect to see?
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 15:44:10 GMT
Post by medwaypotter on Nov 25, 2020 15:44:10 GMT
There seems to be a mentality issue with Josh similar to Rowetts issue of shitting himself at the point of promotion, Josh seems to shit it at the point of becoming a regular. He has ability, there's no doubting that, just needs to apply it on a consistent basis. That's a very poor comparison. And it doesn't take in the problem that Tymon's manager consistently picks him in a position that the player isn't comfortable in. Pick him in central midfield, attacking midfield, or don't pick him at all. He could have played him in central, while Clucas was injured, if he wanted to see how that would work out. O'Neill's probably been the best manager for Josh in that he picked him off of being virtually in the scrapyard, but he's also as bad as the others by trying to turn him into something he's not. I can understand O'Neill's position. The left back he signed is not a wingback, the winger can't understand the defensive aspects of the wingback position, so Tymon is the last leftsided player of a bad wb lot that he can resort to. The purpose of playing wingbacks is that you have wide players that can do both aspects, defending and attacking. We don't have any such players on either side, and yet O'Neill keeps returning to the system, despite the consistent problems in it. Whereas we have two players that can do the fb positions, not great, but they know what to do. It's brought us good results. Yet O'Neill discards the 4231 that seemingly suits the team. So your saying a player we signed as a left back cant play left back ?
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 15:47:40 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 15:47:40 GMT
I agree with the poster who said the position he played against Norwich wasn't his best position. He hasn't been played in his best position to give him a chance to simply do his best bit for the team. He hasn't been played consistently enough to give him any chance to show consistency. Until that happens you are right for all the wrong reasons. So humour me, how does that change? And assuming he's given that opportunity, what do you expect to see? When a player gets the chance to play for a while in his best position there could be fireworks...
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 15:49:44 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 15:49:44 GMT
That's a very poor comparison. And it doesn't take in the problem that Tymon's manager consistently picks him in a position that the player isn't comfortable in. Pick him in central midfield, attacking midfield, or don't pick him at all. He could have played him in central, while Clucas was injured, if he wanted to see how that would work out. O'Neill's probably been the best manager for Josh in that he picked him off of being virtually in the scrapyard, but he's also as bad as the others by trying to turn him into something he's not. I can understand O'Neill's position. The left back he signed is not a wingback, the winger can't understand the defensive aspects of the wingback position, so Tymon is the last leftsided player of a bad wb lot that he can resort to. The purpose of playing wingbacks is that you have wide players that can do both aspects, defending and attacking. We don't have any such players on either side, and yet O'Neill keeps returning to the system, despite the consistent problems in it. Whereas we have two players that can do the fb positions, not great, but they know what to do. It's brought us good results. Yet O'Neill discards the 4231 that seemingly suits the team. So your saying a player we signed as a left back cant play left back ? Not quite. We bought a player then tried to shoehorn him into the void we have.
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 15:52:32 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2020 15:52:32 GMT
So humour me, how does that change? And assuming he's given that opportunity, what do you expect to see? When a player gets the chance to play for a while in his best position there could be fireworks... That doesn't really answer either of my questions though does it?
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 16:00:03 GMT
Post by medwaypotter on Nov 25, 2020 16:00:03 GMT
So your saying a player we signed as a left back cant play left back ? Not quite. We bought a player then tried to shoehorn him into the void we have. I thought we signed him as a left back, but you want him to play central midfield ?
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 16:08:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 16:08:14 GMT
Attacking midfielder, Not a left back or wing back So again, who are you dropping to play him? McClean, who didn’t play last night
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2020 16:10:39 GMT
So again, who are you dropping to play him? McClean, who didn’t play last night So we're saying he's a left winger, have I got that right? McClean has been excellent since he's been back in the team, why would we drop him?
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 16:12:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 16:12:42 GMT
McClean, who didn’t play last night So we're saying he's a left winger, have I got that right? McClean has been excellent since he's been back in the team, why would we drop him? Did McClean play last night??
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 16:19:37 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 25, 2020 16:19:37 GMT
So we're saying he's a left winger, have I got that right? McClean has been excellent since he's been back in the team, why would we drop him? Did McClean play last night?? No. I thought you said you'd drop McClean to play him though, generally?
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 16:29:35 GMT
Post by femark on Nov 25, 2020 16:29:35 GMT
The problem is, he is a wing back or a full back. That is where he has played for his entire career, as short as it is. It's where his managers have played him, because he's leftsided and has pace, That doesn't mean it's his best position. He's upped his game when he was allowed to play where he likes to play which is central midfield. So maybe that's his best position? I must have missed when he said his favourite position was CM
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 16:40:25 GMT
Post by nottsover60 on Nov 25, 2020 16:40:25 GMT
I was replying to the poster who said the position he played against Norwich wasn't his best position though. He hasn't shown consistent enough form to be a starter in any position. He's looked well off it in most games. I agree with the poster who said the position he played against Norwich wasn't his best position. He hasn't been played in his best position to give him a chance to simply do his best bit for the team. He hasn't been played consistently enough to give him any chance to show consistency. Until that happens you are right for all the wrong reasons. He came to us as a left back and that's where he played for Hull so he has played there but can't defend. Last night he played left wing back but was a worse defender than McLean who until recently at Stoke has never been asked to play a defensive role. So now we say he should play left wing (and I have seen no attacking attributes apart from his speed) or midfield. That's not the way football works. You take your chance in the position you get picked for. If that isn't your favourite you work hard at playing well there and perhaps later you will get to play where you prefer. You make it really difficult for a manager not to play you so that he has to find a place for you in the team. Perhaps Josh should look at his mate Tyrese's progression this season. And tell me which young players get picked consistently until they start to play well. Most get the chance every now and again especially if they don't produce when picked. Even Tyrese struggled to get regular game time at first. If you get an opportunity you grab it in both hands whatever position it is. Campbell and Collins have both this season played well in positions which would not be their choice.
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Post by gingerninja on Nov 25, 2020 17:01:04 GMT
It's suddenly looking as if some of the younger players in the back up category might not be championship ready, which would make our squad suddenly look a little thin?
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 17:01:11 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 17:01:11 GMT
Not quite. We bought a player then tried to shoehorn him into the void we have. I thought we signed him as a left back, but you want him to play central midfield ? You want him to be left back, even though he is poor as left back?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 17:04:36 GMT
I have seen no attacking attributes apart from his speed) or midfield. You must have missed the Forest game where he assisted for a couple of goals.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 17:05:44 GMT
It's where his managers have played him, because he's leftsided and has pace, That doesn't mean it's his best position. He's upped his game when he was allowed to play where he likes to play which is central midfield. So maybe that's his best position? I must have missed when he said his favourite position was CM We're not talking about what he has said. As far as I know he says very little.
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Tymon
Nov 25, 2020 17:09:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2020 17:09:37 GMT
When a player gets the chance to play for a while in his best position there could be fireworks... That doesn't really answer either of my questions though does it? You asked me what I expected to see and I answered what I expect to see. If that doesn't answer your question that's your problem. You asked how do you change that and I told you how to change that. If that doesn't answer your question that's your problem.
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