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Post by bayernoatcake on May 24, 2020 10:56:30 GMT
I don’t think it was a large section of the fanbase at all. At the ground we all knew what Jones was. The Stoke fans at work bar one who was a proper Jones fan thought he was total shite. There was a hardcore and it was far too big but most people in the real world seemed to lose time for Jones pretty early on. You're still talking about what happened. I'm talking about what was before it started unravelling. I don't believe that you could see after the Shrewsbury game that he was a nut case. No one could - although I was an early dissenter too and was heavily abused for it. People were taken in as Pugsley says and it was still on going in pre season. Promotion was a foregone conclusion. But after the qpr opening game of this/last season the wool was finally pulled from most eyes and it only went downhill from that point on, as you say. Every decision Jones could make that was wrong, he made them. I didn’t say I could see he was a nutcase. More that he was a bad manager. That game we lost because of his decisions. I just wanted it to be a one off.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 11:33:11 GMT
You're still talking about what happened. I'm talking about what was before it started unravelling. I don't believe that you could see after the Shrewsbury game that he was a nut case. No one could - although I was an early dissenter too and was heavily abused for it. People were taken in as Pugsley says and it was still on going in pre season. Promotion was a foregone conclusion. But after the qpr opening game of this/last season the wool was finally pulled from most eyes and it only went downhill from that point on, as you say. Every decision Jones could make that was wrong, he made them. I didn’t say I could see he was a nutcase. More that he was a bad manager. That game we lost because of his decisions. I just wanted it to be a one off. We lost our next cup game, vs Brentford, because of the manager's poor selections, which were decisive in sending us out. Does that mean that O'Neill's a bad manager?
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Post by lordb on May 24, 2020 11:42:34 GMT
I didn’t say I could see he was a nutcase. More that he was a bad manager. That game we lost because of his decisions. I just wanted it to be a one off. We lost our next cup game, vs Brentford, because of the manager's poor selections, which were decisive in sending us out. Does that mean that O'Neill's a bad manager? More to do with Davies fuck up surely?
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 16:03:18 GMT
We lost our next cup game, vs Brentford, because of the manager's poor selections, which were decisive in sending us out. Does that mean that O'Neill's a bad manager? More to do with Davies fuck up surely? O'Neill still selected our third choice keeper, so he's responsible, although I agree it was a freak goal.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 25, 2020 0:04:44 GMT
I didn’t say I could see he was a nutcase. More that he was a bad manager. That game we lost because of his decisions. I just wanted it to be a one off. We lost our next cup game, vs Brentford, because of the manager's poor selections, which were decisive in sending us out. Does that mean that O'Neill's a bad manager? The keeper made a fuck up. The keeper the other fuck wit signed.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 0:07:26 GMT
I didn’t say I could see he was a nutcase. More that he was a bad manager. That game we lost because of his decisions. I just wanted it to be a one off. We lost our next cup game, vs Brentford, because of the manager's poor selections, which were decisive in sending us out. Does that mean that O'Neill's a bad manager? We're weren't going to win the Cup and least of our priorities at that time. The keeper made the mistake.
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banx10
Academy Starlet
Posts: 197
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Post by banx10 on May 25, 2020 0:22:05 GMT
All a load of plop!
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Post by Godo on May 28, 2020 9:57:16 GMT
I said it then and stick by it now. We should have gone for Alan Pardew with Phil Brown and Tim Sherwood making up his coaching team. Then thank fuck you had nothing to do with the selection process. MO'N is the best we could have hoped for and is doing a very fine job, especially considering the "tools" at his disposal.
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Post by Godo on May 28, 2020 10:01:08 GMT
He looks like he's going to keep faith with the same men that by and large are the same ones that got us into trouble with Jones. It's very true that O'Neill was able to resurrect players, Powell and Campbell especially so, but what happens if we start off next season only half as badly as we did under Jones. Will the players' limp truer selves resurface? That's when O'Neill has to be able to put his foot down, which I think he can, but I'm not convinced he can get Ince to put his foot in or Gregory to score goals. You know why he has to "keep faith with the same men" because this is the real World and not Football Manager fantasy land. He inherited a shit, bloated overpaid squad who all had these pesky things called CONTRACTS. He has done a brilliant job to turn things around.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 13:19:39 GMT
He looks like he's going to keep faith with the same men that by and large are the same ones that got us into trouble with Jones. It's very true that O'Neill was able to resurrect players, Powell and Campbell especially so, but what happens if we start off next season only half as badly as we did under Jones. Will the players' limp truer selves resurface? That's when O'Neill has to be able to put his foot down, which I think he can, but I'm not convinced he can get Ince to put his foot in or Gregory to score goals. You know why he has to "keep faith with the same men" because this is the real World and not Football Manager fantasy land. He inherited a shit, bloated overpaid squad who all had these pesky things called CONTRACTS. He has done a brilliant job to turn things around. He has 37 players to choose from plus further academy graduates. He still picks Ince, Batth, Ward (when he's not injured), Smith, Vokes, Gregory; players that have shown that they are not good enough to play at this level for us (Ince has played at this level for other clubs, but for us he's been extremely poor). He has other options, but he does not play them. And I didn't even mention McClean.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 11:13:53 GMT
You know why he has to "keep faith with the same men" because this is the real World and not Football Manager fantasy land. He inherited a shit, bloated overpaid squad who all had these pesky things called CONTRACTS. He has done a brilliant job to turn things around. He has 37 players to choose from plus further academy graduates. He still picks Ince, Batth, Ward (when he's not injured), Smith, Vokes, Gregory; players that have shown that they are not good enough to play at this level for us (Ince has played at this level for other clubs, but for us he's been extremely poor). He has other options, but he does not play them. And I didn't even mention McClean. He's pulled us away from bottom of the table so will take his judgement over yours for some reason McClean been good under O'Neill but some will never see that and no point in discussing. Our record with the players not good enough for this division is play off form but hey
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Post by banksisgod on May 31, 2020 12:06:54 GMT
The performances of pretty much every player has improved since M O'N came in (with the possible exception of Gregory). Carrying forward the form we were in before the break, and even with no additions to the squad, there's a good chance we would be in play-offs contention next year. Say what you like about McClean, the effort he puts in, game after game, must have a positive effect on the players around him.
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Post by fulagoals on May 31, 2020 12:43:28 GMT
I said it then and stick by it now. We should have gone for Alan Pardew with Phil Brown and Tim Sherwood making up his coaching team. Then thank fuck you had nothing to do with the selection process. MO'N is the best we could have hoped for and is doing a very fine job, especially considering the "tools" at his disposal. Well that was the loneliest spell off fishing I’ve ever encountered. It took a full 8 days of sitting all alone in my Bivvy until you came along Godo🎣🎣🎣
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2020 19:14:44 GMT
He has 37 players to choose from plus further academy graduates. He still picks Ince, Batth, Ward (when he's not injured), Smith, Vokes, Gregory; players that have shown that they are not good enough to play at this level for us (Ince has played at this level for other clubs, but for us he's been extremely poor). He has other options, but he does not play them. And I didn't even mention McClean. Our record with the players not good enough for this division is play off form but hey Hardly... We finished lower midtable last season, we were never above last third any stage this season.
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Post by lordb on May 31, 2020 19:45:37 GMT
Our record with the players not good enough for this division is play off form but hey Hardly... We finished lower midtable last season, we were never above last third any stage this season. We were adrift at the bottom before O'Neil came in. Stokes form under him is play off form We win 50% of our matches. We scored 3,4 and five goals in matches something we haven't done for years. We have come from behind to win three times , something we haven't done for years. For balance we lost (badly) QPR when ahead. He's taken this motley gang that's been assembled by four managers and got them winning. How anyone isn't absolutely bowled over by O'Neill is beyond me
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Post by banksisgod on Jun 1, 2020 7:03:28 GMT
.....and now we have him full-time!!! Our problem will be how do we hold onto him? If you are an owner or CEO of a mid/lower table Premier League side with "issues", there is an awful lot to like about M. O'N.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 10:23:26 GMT
Hardly... We finished lower midtable last season, we were never above last third any stage this season. We were adrift at the bottom before O'Neil came in. Stokes form under him is play off form We win 50% of our matches. We scored 3,4 and five goals in matches something we haven't done for years. We have come from behind to win three times , something we haven't done for years. For balance we lost (badly) QPR when ahead. He's taken this motley gang that's been assembled by four managers and got them winning. How anyone isn't absolutely bowled over by O'Neill is beyond me I'm an O'Neill fan too. But we have to be realistic. Play off places are a funny thing, but no team ever entered play off games from position 17....
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Post by lordb on Jun 1, 2020 11:45:30 GMT
We were adrift at the bottom before O'Neil came in. Stokes form under him is play off form We win 50% of our matches. We scored 3,4 and five goals in matches something we haven't done for years. We have come from behind to win three times , something we haven't done for years. For balance we lost (badly) QPR when ahead. He's taken this motley gang that's been assembled by four managers and got them winning. How anyone isn't absolutely bowled over by O'Neill is beyond me I'm an O'Neill fan too. But we have to be realistic. Play off places are a funny thing, but no team ever entered play off games from position 17.... However if O'Neill simply maintains Stoke form since he came in next season then play offs are to be expected, not possible,not maybe, expected. If we actually improve on the form then challenging for top top 2 would be on.
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Post by mickstupp on Jun 1, 2020 13:12:30 GMT
.....and now we have him full-time!!! Our problem will be how do we hold onto him? If you are an owner or CEO of a mid/lower table Premier League side with "issues", there is an awful lot to like about M. O'N. Ours for the short to medium term at least. He’s said many times that stability at board room level is important to him and that’s one thing we have going for us in spades.
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Post by mickstupp on Jun 1, 2020 13:15:46 GMT
I'm an O'Neill fan too. But we have to be realistic. Play off places are a funny thing, but no team ever entered play off games from position 17.... However if O'Neill simply maintains Stoke form since he came in next season then play offs are to be expected, not possible,not maybe, expected. If we actually improve on the form then challenging for top top 2 would be on. The only criticism I would have is our away form has been very patchy. For every really good result (Barnsley, WBA, and Huddersfield) there’s been some really poor ones as well. Our inability to hold onto leads away from home has cost us 11 points. If he can get us to defend a bit better on our travels, in the same way Preston did to us at our place, then the sky is the limit.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 13:38:01 GMT
I'm an O'Neill fan too. But we have to be realistic. Play off places are a funny thing, but no team ever entered play off games from position 17.... However if O'Neill simply maintains Stoke form since he came in next season then play offs are to be expected, not possible,not maybe, expected. If we actually improve on the form then challenging for top top 2 would be on. Yeah just like before the start of the season when promotion was a foregone conclusion, now it's "to be expected." Some people just never learn. Unless O'Neill goes on a buying binge bigger than his predecessors - and he's stated he won't - then the same players that got us into trouble are going to be the same players that you expect to hover around promotion. Yeah right. Let's get to an upper midtable position where we don't have to concern ourselves with relegation first.
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Post by scfc75 on Jun 1, 2020 13:43:40 GMT
We were adrift at the bottom before O'Neil came in. Stokes form under him is play off form We win 50% of our matches. We scored 3,4 and five goals in matches something we haven't done for years. We have come from behind to win three times , something we haven't done for years. For balance we lost (badly) QPR when ahead. He's taken this motley gang that's been assembled by four managers and got them winning. How anyone isn't absolutely bowled over by O'Neill is beyond me I'm an O'Neill fan too. But we have to be realistic. Play off places are a funny thing, but no team ever entered play off games from position 17....Do you mean in the same season, or nobody finished 17 then got into the playoffs the season after?
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Post by thisisouryear on Jun 1, 2020 13:50:00 GMT
If it were me looking for a new manager in the position we were in I would never have gone for O'Neill. I would have gone after Pearson, not sure who I would have chased after him, but O'Neill wouldn't have even been shortlisted for me as he came across too high risk given the situation.
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Post by mickstupp on Jun 1, 2020 15:23:27 GMT
If it were me looking for a new manager in the position we were in I would never have gone for O'Neill. I would have gone after Pearson, not sure who I would have chased after him, but O'Neill wouldn't have even been shortlisted for me as he came across too high risk given the situation. I would have gone all out for O’Neill when we sacked Jones personally. He did a sensational job with Northern Ireland and it seemed to be going unnoticed for some reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 15:41:30 GMT
I'm an O'Neill fan too. But we have to be realistic. Play off places are a funny thing, but no team ever entered play off games from position 17....Do you mean in the same season, or nobody finished 17 then got into the playoffs the season after? I'm stating the obvious for lordb.
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Post by lordb on Jun 1, 2020 16:04:12 GMT
However if O'Neill simply maintains Stoke form since he came in next season then play offs are to be expected, not possible,not maybe, expected. If we actually improve on the form then challenging for top top 2 would be on. The only criticism I would have is our away form has been very patchy. For every really good result (Barnsley, WBA, and Huddersfield) there’s been some really poor ones as well. Our inability to hold onto leads away from home has cost us 11 points. If he can get us to defend a bit better on our travels, in the same way Preston did to us at our place, then the sky is the limit. is that 11 points under O'Neill or Jones & O'Neill? we don't draw many
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Post by lordb on Jun 1, 2020 16:06:36 GMT
However if O'Neill simply maintains Stoke form since he came in next season then play offs are to be expected, not possible,not maybe, expected. If we actually improve on the form then challenging for top top 2 would be on. Yeah just like before the start of the season when promotion was a foregone conclusion, now it's "to be expected." Some people just never learn. Unless O'Neill goes on a buying binge bigger than his predecessors - and he's stated he won't - then the same players that got us into trouble are going to be the same players that you expect to hover around promotion. Yeah right. Let's get to an upper midtable position where we don't have to concern ourselves with relegation first. no it's nothing like expectations when Rowett joined. this is based on points per game under O'Neill. since November if you extrapolate the points haul over a 46 game season we get 70+ points, that's play off form full stop -
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Post by thisisouryear on Jun 1, 2020 16:09:25 GMT
If it were me looking for a new manager in the position we were in I would never have gone for O'Neill. I would have gone after Pearson, not sure who I would have chased after him, but O'Neill wouldn't have even been shortlisted for me as he came across too high risk given the situation. I would have gone all out for O’Neill when we sacked Jones personally. He did a sensational job with Northern Ireland and it seemed to be going unnoticed for some reason. He was obviously doing very well at Northern Ireland, but running a big club like Stoke who are in a relegation battle is much more of a challenge than anything he had done before. The day to day running of a football team at club level is loads different to an international one. When you are responsible for players progression, training and everything else that comes with it then it's a huge difference. He had very little club experience and I think he was a huge risk. He will have to do some sort of preseason this season now so it will be interesting to see the shape in which our players come back. We will learn a lot more about him and I hope to god we come back better than ever. It will give us greater confidence going into next season if we are on it as soon as we kick back in. We need to be looking at our opponents like prey if we are to have that killer instinct we have so badly needed. It's great it's worked out so far and I hope he's here for many more years as that will prove he's doing a good job, but still a long way to go. If he keeps us up it's a brilliant appointment given where we were.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Jun 1, 2020 18:51:55 GMT
Yeah just like before the start of the season when promotion was a foregone conclusion, now it's "to be expected." Some people just never learn. Unless O'Neill goes on a buying binge bigger than his predecessors - and he's stated he won't - then the same players that got us into trouble are going to be the same players that you expect to hover around promotion. Yeah right. Let's get to an upper midtable position where we don't have to concern ourselves with relegation first. no it's nothing like expectations when Rowett joined. this is based on points per game under O'Neill. since November if you extrapolate the points haul over a 46 game season we get 70+ points, that's play off form full stop - Based on 37 games that every team has played we’d be on 57 points and just inside the playoffs. Though the 71 points total, when average is applied to 46 games, wouldn’t have been enough to make the playoffs in any of the last five seasons. However you look at it though, and really we can only measure O’Neill on the 22 league games he’s actually managed us for, he’s done brilliantly considering the absolute shambles he took over and it wouldn’t be fair to have expected any better. You’re only looking for an argument for the sake of it to suggest he’s not done well enough.
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Post by mickstupp on Jun 1, 2020 20:14:46 GMT
The only criticism I would have is our away form has been very patchy. For every really good result (Barnsley, WBA, and Huddersfield) there’s been some really poor ones as well. Our inability to hold onto leads away from home has cost us 11 points. If he can get us to defend a bit better on our travels, in the same way Preston did to us at our place, then the sky is the limit. is that 11 points under O'Neill or Jones & O'Neill? we don't draw many MON Poor second half at Hull after going in 1-0 up at half time and looking comfortable. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory at Middlesborough just before Christmas Calamity at QPR after going 2-0 up Sitting back and asking for trouble at Luton and drawing 1-1
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