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Post by mickstupp on Jun 1, 2020 20:17:27 GMT
I would have gone all out for O’Neill when we sacked Jones personally. He did a sensational job with Northern Ireland and it seemed to be going unnoticed for some reason. He was obviously doing very well at Northern Ireland, but running a big club like Stoke who are in a relegation battle is much more of a challenge than anything he had done before. The day to day running of a football team at club level is loads different to an international one. When you are responsible for players progression, training and everything else that comes with it then it's a huge difference. He had very little club experience and I think he was a huge risk. He will have to do some sort of preseason this season now so it will be interesting to see the shape in which our players come back. We will learn a lot more about him and I hope to god we come back better than ever. It will give us greater confidence going into next season if we are on it as soon as we kick back in. We need to be looking at our opponents like prey if we are to have that killer instinct we have so badly needed. It's great it's worked out so far and I hope he's here for many more years as that will prove he's doing a good job, but still a long way to go. If he keeps us up it's a brilliant appointment given where we were. Apologies, I’ve just re-read my original post and I got it wrong. I meant to put I would have gone for O’Neill (and posted it on here) after Hughes was sacked, not Jones. |
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Post by kustokie on Jun 1, 2020 21:27:02 GMT
He was obviously doing very well at Northern Ireland, but running a big club like Stoke who are in a relegation battle is much more of a challenge than anything he had done before. The day to day running of a football team at club level is loads different to an international one. When you are responsible for players progression, training and everything else that comes with it then it's a huge difference. He had very little club experience and I think he was a huge risk. He will have to do some sort of preseason this season now so it will be interesting to see the shape in which our players come back. We will learn a lot more about him and I hope to god we come back better than ever. It will give us greater confidence going into next season if we are on it as soon as we kick back in. We need to be looking at our opponents like prey if we are to have that killer instinct we have so badly needed. It's great it's worked out so far and I hope he's here for many more years as that will prove he's doing a good job, but still a long way to go. If he keeps us up it's a brilliant appointment given where we were. Apologies, I’ve just re-read my original post and I got it wrong. I meant to put I would have gone for O’Neill (and posted it on here) after Hughes was sacked, not Jones. I may be losing it a bit, but weren’t there two in between Hughes and Jones? |
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Post by thisisouryear on Jun 1, 2020 21:35:16 GMT
Apologies, I’ve just re-read my original post and I got it wrong. I meant to put I would have gone for O’Neill (and posted it on here) after Hughes was sacked, not Jones. I may be losing it a bit, but weren’t there two in between Hughes and Jones? Yes, Lambert and Rowett. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 8:13:52 GMT
Yeah just like before the start of the season when promotion was a foregone conclusion, now it's "to be expected." Some people just never learn. Unless O'Neill goes on a buying binge bigger than his predecessors - and he's stated he won't - then the same players that got us into trouble are going to be the same players that you expect to hover around promotion. Yeah right. Let's get to an upper midtable position where we don't have to concern ourselves with relegation first. no it's nothing like expectations when Rowett joined. this is based on points per game under O'Neill. since November if you extrapolate the points haul over a 46 game season we get 70+ points, that's play off form full stop - Who's talking about Rowett??? Play off form. It's not a valid table, because seasons don't run from November... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 8:18:53 GMT
no it's nothing like expectations when Rowett joined. this is based on points per game under O'Neill. since November if you extrapolate the points haul over a 46 game season we get 70+ points, that's play off form full stop - Based on 37 games that every team has played we’d be on 57 points and just inside the playoffs. Though the 71 points total, when average is applied to 46 games, wouldn’t have been enough to make the playoffs in any of the last five seasons. However you look at it though, and really we can only measure O’Neill on the 22 league games he’s actually managed us for, he’s done brilliantly considering the absolute shambles he took over and it wouldn’t be fair to have expected any better. You’re only looking for an argument for the sake of it to suggest he’s not done well enough. I don't think anyone has suggested he's not done well enough. He's done very well. But a proper verdict will have to wait until he has a full season behind him. |
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Post by banksisgod on Jun 2, 2020 11:55:42 GMT
I can't agree with that. Considering the state the club was in when he arrived - adrift at the bottom, "broken" dressing room, desperately low morale, and a very angry support base - what Michael O'Neill has achieved in such a short space of time is nothing short of miraculous.
In one go, he has dramatically improved both morale and results and gotten rid of many of the disruptive types in the dressing room. People are playing in their proper, preferred positions (BMI accepted), we're scoring goals for fun and, it would appear, everyone is enjoying themselves.
Yes, tactical mistakes have been made along the way (some of them understandable, given the precariousness of our situation) but he's a very smart guy, and I'm sure lessons are being learned.
I'm looking forward to next season, when he's not playing catch-up, but instead is starting with a clean slate like everyone else. I've said it on other threads, I feel like we are on the cusp of very exciting times at the club.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 12:46:18 GMT
I can't agree with that. Considering the state the club was in when he arrived - adrift at the bottom, "broken" dressing room, desperately low morale, and a very angry support base - what Michael O'Neill has achieved in such a short space of time is nothing short of miraculous. In one go, he has dramatically improved both morale and results and gotten rid of many of the disruptive types in the dressing room. People are playing in their proper, preferred positions (BMI accepted), we're scoring goals for fun and, it would appear, everyone is enjoying themselves. Yes, tactical mistakes have been made along the way (some of them understandable, given the precariousness of our situation) but he's a very smart guy, and I'm sure lessons are being learned. I'm looking forward to next season, when he's not playing catch-up, but instead is starting with a clean slate like everyone else. I've said it on other threads, I feel like we are on the cusp of very exciting times at the club. That's exactly what I am saying. Next season is his first real season. But let's not celebrate before the season has even begun. We did enough of that before and then what happened. He hasn't completely gotten rid of disruptive types. He was only able (not his fault) to send players out on loan, and they are coming back or may already be back: Badou, Woods, Wimmer. The clubs they were at have less money now and are not likely to sign them on full contracts. A question mark remains over Afobe. N'goy never even left. |
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Post by markby on Jun 2, 2020 20:49:58 GMT
He was obviously doing very well at Northern Ireland, but running a big club like Stoke who are in a relegation battle is much more of a challenge than anything he had done before. The day to day running of a football team at club level is loads different to an international one. When you are responsible for players progression, training and everything else that comes with it then it's a huge difference. He had very little club experience and I think he was a huge risk. I can see what you mean, but if you think Stoke were in a bad way when Michael took over, you should have seen the state of the NI team he inherited: lower than a snake's ass. A dead snake's ass.
As for being a "huge risk" (aside from the fact that every appointment carries some risk), I can see how "outsiders" would see it that way.
But viewed from the inside, everyone who's ever worked with him positively raves about him. I don't know whether someone at Stoke spoke to people who knew Michael beforehand, or whether he blitzed the interview (possibly both?), but talk to anyone from NI and they'll tell you, Michael's appointment was as "low risk" as it gets.
Meanwhile, something which might interest Stoke fans: in a recent interview (can't find it just now), Michael says he made a mistake in not "laying down the law" to his squad sooner after he took over NI. Basically he admits that coming from Shamrock Rovers, he initially lacked confidence when dealing with players who played their club football at the next level (referred to discipline, attitude, professionalism etc).
The clear implication was that he won't make the same mistake at Stoke; that is, as and when he feels something needs to be said, he won't hold back.
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