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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 27, 2022 12:04:21 GMT
I think they are, sensibly, trying to avoid the obvious trap that the government is working so hard to set for them ie that if they are seen to be supporting the strikes, the public, which is by and large against strikes because it fucks everything up, will blame Labour more than they'll get onto the government. I think the govt knows that full well, hence their approach to do nothing/make it worse in the hope that eventually some of that pro-strike mud will stick on Labour. With the support of the compliant right-wing media, of course. I think that the " opposition " plan is to pile as much pressure on Johnson as possible, hit him with as many issues as possible. I think it might backfire. Hence the need to ensure that the government doesn't successfully manage to make it look like the strikes are being supported and encouraged by Labour. That's the govt tactic at present. Not daft, but a bit desperate and it may backfire, but they're working hard at it. The govt I mean, not Labour.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 27, 2022 12:05:59 GMT
I think they are, sensibly, trying to avoid the obvious trap that the government is working so hard to set for them ie that if they are seen to be supporting the strikes, the public, which is by and large against strikes because it fucks everything up, will blame Labour more than they'll get onto the government. I think the govt knows that full well, hence their approach to do nothing/make it worse in the hope that eventually some of that pro-strike mud will stick on Labour. With the support of the compliant right-wing media, of course. What a ghoulish prospect that is. Demonise the organised labour the party was born from because you don't want to be seen as being different from the Tory Party! Anyway, here's 'no picketing' Dave in happier times before Starmer the devil came for his soul Watch their poll rating fall if the govt manages to successfully smear the strikes onto Labour. Labour's poll rating I mean, not the govt's! The Tory Press is doing its best too: the DT today carried a photo of Starmer on a picket line from three years ago, just to try to find anything that might stick Much like the Daily Mail tactic over beergate.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 27, 2022 12:12:04 GMT
I think that the " opposition " plan is to pile as much pressure on Johnson as possible, hit him with as many issues as possible. I think it might backfire. Hence the need to ensure that the government doesn't successfully manage to make it look like the strikes are being supported and encouraged by Labour. That's the govt tactic at present. Not daft, but a bit desperate and it may backfire, but they're working hard at it. I'm afraid playing politics with people's lives won't work for the Left. They never seem to learn. Perennial oppostion, never setting the agenda, always following. No leadership, no vision. Mind you it's easy to criticise without needing to offer ways forward.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 27, 2022 12:14:38 GMT
Hence the need to ensure that the government doesn't successfully manage to make it look like the strikes are being supported and encouraged by Labour. That's the govt tactic at present. Not daft, but a bit desperate and it may backfire, but they're working hard at it. I'm afraid playing politics with people's lives won't work for the Left. They never seem to learn. Perennial oppostion, never setting the agenda, always following. No leadership, no vision. Mind you it's easy to criticise without needing to offer ways forward. Is that just a general rant about "the Left" as usual, John, or is it meant to reflect the topic at hand?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 27, 2022 12:22:56 GMT
I'm afraid playing politics with people's lives won't work for the Left. They never seem to learn. Perennial oppostion, never setting the agenda, always following. No leadership, no vision. Mind you it's easy to criticise without needing to offer ways forward. Is that just a general rant about "the Left" as usual, John, or is it meant to reflect the topic at hand? It's more of a specific rant about the "Left" in respect to this issue, I think it can be generalised though....they do seem obliviously keep repeating the same mistakes. They missed a great opportunity with Brexit to set the agenda. Never mind. I think the consistent " rants" have been from you and those who think they are on the Left....'just keep criticising Boris, we'll get him in the end"....probably true, you will , eventually...just in time for the Tories to put in charge new blood. Even the " Left" continue to criticise the " left". I no need continue to do so, but will on the Oatcake, intermittently. You need to look a bit closer to home to look for a repetition of the same message....I don't think you are capable of that. Never mind.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 27, 2022 12:25:35 GMT
Is that just a general rant about "the Left" as usual, John, or is it meant to reflect the topic at hand? It's more of a specific rant about the "Left", I think it can be generalised though....they do seem obliviously keep repeating the same mistakes. They missed a great opportunity with Brexit to set the agenda. Never mind. I think the consistent " rants" have been from you and those who think they are on the Left....'just keep criticising Boris, we'll get him in the end"....probably true, you will , eventually...just in time for the Tories to put in charge new blood. Even the " left" continue to criticise the " left". I no need continue to do so, but will on the Oatcake, intermittently. You need to look a bit closer to home to look for a repetition of the same message....I don't think you are capable of that. Never mind. I figured it was, John, to be fair
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 27, 2022 12:26:26 GMT
It's more of a specific rant about the "Left", I think it can be generalised though....they do seem obliviously keep repeating the same mistakes. They missed a great opportunity with Brexit to set the agenda. Never mind. I think the consistent " rants" have been from you and those who think they are on the Left....'just keep criticising Boris, we'll get him in the end"....probably true, you will , eventually...just in time for the Tories to put in charge new blood. Even the " left" continue to criticise the " left". I no need continue to do so, but will on the Oatcake, intermittently. You need to look a bit closer to home to look for a repetition of the same message....I don't think you are capable of that. Never mind. I figured it was, John, to be fair As I thought you are " caught in a trap"....and " you can't get out"
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 27, 2022 12:28:45 GMT
I figured it was, John, to be fair As I thought you are " caught in a trap"....and " you can't get out" Haha, nice one. Did Elvis ever do a song called "Oh, the irony"
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 27, 2022 12:31:39 GMT
As I thought you are " caught in a trap"....and " you can't get out" Haha, nice one. Did Elvis ever do a song called "Oh, the irony" Not as far as I know....at the moment I like 'Any day now", that's a good one.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jul 8, 2022 11:55:50 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 8, 2022 14:22:04 GMT
It was always a load of made up bollocks driven by the Daily Mail. What a waste of police time.
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Post by theonlooker on Jul 8, 2022 15:04:22 GMT
Waste of time, effort and money but for Starmer it was perfect political currency at the perfect time. He's been made to look like goody two shoes Trevor, offered to resign when he knew he'd done nothing wrong and is now holding himself up as a paragon of virtue and the front face of the new wave of 'trusting' politicians.
I'd just be happy if he showed me what he was all about - his career as Labour leader so far has been 'i'm not Boris Johnson'.
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Post by questionable on Jul 8, 2022 15:16:45 GMT
Waste of time, effort and money but for Starmer it was perfect political currency at the perfect time. He's been made to look like goody two shoes Trevor, offered to resign when he knew he'd done nothing wrong and is now holding himself up as a paragon of virtue and the front face of the new wave of 'trusting' politicians.
I'd just be happy if he showed me what he was all about - his career as Labour leader so far has been 'i'm not Boris Johnson'.
Same here. I have no problems in voting Labour but he comes across as stating the obvious, no more, no less and without doubt not very inspirational/motivating. As for that Gob shite Rayner if people want to take the Labour Party seriously they need to bin this thick sounding buffoon.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 8, 2022 15:28:14 GMT
Waste of time, effort and money but for Starmer it was perfect political currency at the perfect time. He's been made to look like goody two shoes Trevor, offered to resign when he knew he'd done nothing wrong and is now holding himself up as a paragon of virtue and the front face of the new wave of 'trusting' politicians. I'd just be happy if he showed me what he was all about - his career as Labour leader so far has been 'i'm not Boris Johnson'.
I think he showed what he was about today. That he has integrity. Now we need some policies
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Post by theonlooker on Jul 8, 2022 15:33:31 GMT
Waste of time, effort and money but for Starmer it was perfect political currency at the perfect time. He's been made to look like goody two shoes Trevor, offered to resign when he knew he'd done nothing wrong and is now holding himself up as a paragon of virtue and the front face of the new wave of 'trusting' politicians. I'd just be happy if he showed me what he was all about - his career as Labour leader so far has been 'i'm not Boris Johnson'.
I think he showed what he was about today. That he has integrity. Now we need some policies What we saw today was a procession. Nothing to do with integrity. The fact it's been widely celebrated I think proves the point about politics as a whole. I actually felt quite embarrassed watching it.
Agree, we are desperately short on policies. I hope he forces the no confidence vote through and we go to a GE. We'll finally then see exactly what he's all about.
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Post by andystokey on Jul 8, 2022 15:36:08 GMT
Waste of time, effort and money but for Starmer it was perfect political currency at the perfect time. He's been made to look like goody two shoes Trevor, offered to resign when he knew he'd done nothing wrong and is now holding himself up as a paragon of virtue and the front face of the new wave of 'trusting' politicians. I'd just be happy if he showed me what he was all about - his career as Labour leader so far has been 'i'm not Boris Johnson'.
Same here. I have no problems in voting Labour but he comes across as stating the obvious, no more, no less and without doubt not very inspirational/motivating. As for that Gob shite Rayner if people want to take the Labour Party seriously they need to bin this thick sounding buffoon. Is it a woman thing? or a single mum thing? Or the fact that she was voted in by her community peers and isn't from Eton?
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 8, 2022 15:36:59 GMT
I think he showed what he was about today. That he has integrity. Now we need some policies What we saw today was a procession. Nothing to do with integrity. The fact it's been widely celebrated I think proves the point about politics as a whole. I actually felt quite embarrassed watching it.
Agree, we are desperately short on policies. I hope he forces the no confidence vote through and we go to a GE. We'll finally then see exactly what he's all about.
What we saw today was him kicking the ball into the empty net. We won’t get a GE because the tories won’t vote no confidence as they are too scared of an election at the moment.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 8, 2022 15:37:56 GMT
Same here. I have no problems in voting Labour but he comes across as stating the obvious, no more, no less and without doubt not very inspirational/motivating. As for that Gob shite Rayner if people want to take the Labour Party seriously they need to bin this thick sounding buffoon. Is it a woman thing? or a single mum thing? Or the fact that she was voted in by her community peers and isn't from Eton? He said sounding. He obviously hates people from Stockport.
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Post by questionable on Jul 8, 2022 16:12:46 GMT
Same here. I have no problems in voting Labour but he comes across as stating the obvious, no more, no less and without doubt not very inspirational/motivating. As for that Gob shite Rayner if people want to take the Labour Party seriously they need to bin this thick sounding buffoon. Is it a woman thing? or a single mum thing? Or the fact that she was voted in by her community peers and isn't from Eton? No, no, no and finally no. She sounds thick and generally when she opens her mouth she puts her foot in it, sounds as common as hell.
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Post by andystokey on Jul 8, 2022 16:36:26 GMT
Is it a woman thing? or a single mum thing? Or the fact that she was voted in by her community peers and isn't from Eton? No, no, no and finally no. She sounds thick and generally when she opens her mouth she puts her foot in it, sounds as common as hell. "sounds common?" Jeez what era are you living in?
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Post by oggyoggy on Jul 8, 2022 16:45:40 GMT
Is it a woman thing? or a single mum thing? Or the fact that she was voted in by her community peers and isn't from Eton? No, no, no and finally no. She sounds thick and generally when she opens her mouth she puts her foot in it, sounds as common as hell. She sounds thick and common you say. No wonder the tories keep winning elections with their posh accents!
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Post by felonious on Jul 8, 2022 16:47:01 GMT
Is it a woman thing? or a single mum thing? Or the fact that she was voted in by her community peers and isn't from Eton? No, no, no and finally no. She sounds thick and generally when she opens her mouth she puts her foot in it, sounds as common as hell.This makes you sound like a right snob
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 8, 2022 19:10:24 GMT
Perhaps not for this thread, but.....
Why is it that , in recent history....
The Tories hold their "great" leader, Thatcher in high esteem?
Whilst
Labour supporters try to disown and discredit their" great" leader, Blair?
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Post by felonious on Jul 8, 2022 19:16:24 GMT
Perhaps not for this thread, but..... Why is it that , in recent history.... The Tories hold their "great" leader, Thatcher in high esteem? Whilst Labour supporters try to disown and discredit their" great" leader, Blair? Good question Cedric. I suspect it's the era that she came from in the same way that a Kinnock or a Foot had conviction. Blair changed the landscape, after him it was fair game to distrust a politician. He also doled out sleaze, sleaze, sleaze to the point that it's now endemic in politics probably more important than debating policy.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 8, 2022 19:23:59 GMT
Perhaps not for this thread, but..... Why is it that , in recent history.... The Tories hold their "great" leader, Thatcher in high esteem? Whilst Labour supporters try to disown and discredit their" great" leader, Blair? Good question Cedric. I suspect it's the era that she came from in the same way that a Kinnock or a Foot had conviction. Blair changed the landscape, after him it was fair game to distrust a politician. He also doled out sleaze, sleaze, sleaze to the point that it's now endemic in politics probably more important than debating policy. I think that is an excellent point about CONVICTION , Susan , I didn't really think of that. We are desperately in need of a leader at present who the public can see is genuinely passionate about the direction of the country..... not just a politician trying to " duck and dive" all questions, see which way the wind is blowing and follow on...... That's why alot of people like Farage, in my opinion.
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Post by felonious on Jul 8, 2022 19:31:02 GMT
Good question Cedric. I suspect it's the era that she came from in the same way that a Kinnock or a Foot had conviction. Blair changed the landscape, after him it was fair game to distrust a politician. He also doled out sleaze, sleaze, sleaze to the point that it's now endemic in politics probably more important than debating policy. I think that is an excellent point about CONVICTION , Susan , I didn't really think of that. We are desperately in need of a leader at present who the public can see is genuinely passionate about the direction of the country..... not just a politician trying to " duck and dive" all questions, see which way the wind is blowing and follow on...... That's why alot of people like Farage, in my opinion. It's all about levelling up for me so Michael Gove all day long
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Post by andystokey on Jul 8, 2022 20:21:16 GMT
Good question Cedric. I suspect it's the era that she came from in the same way that a Kinnock or a Foot had conviction. Blair changed the landscape, after him it was fair game to distrust a politician. He also doled out sleaze, sleaze, sleaze to the point that it's now endemic in politics probably more important than debating policy. I think that is an excellent point about CONVICTION , Susan , I didn't really think of that. We are desperately in need of a leader at present who the public can see is genuinely passionate about the direction of the country..... not just a politician trying to " duck and dive" all questions, see which way the wind is blowing and follow on...... That's why alot of people like Farage, in my opinion. You mean someone who could deliver a speech like this?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 8, 2022 20:31:51 GMT
I think that is an excellent point about CONVICTION , Susan , I didn't really think of that. We are desperately in need of a leader at present who the public can see is genuinely passionate about the direction of the country..... not just a politician trying to " duck and dive" all questions, see which way the wind is blowing and follow on...... That's why alot of people like Farage, in my opinion. You mean someone who could deliver a speech like this? Yes
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 8, 2022 20:33:14 GMT
You mean someone who could deliver a speech like this? Yes He sounds as though he believes what he is saying, irrespective of what everyone else thinks.
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Post by andystokey on Jul 8, 2022 20:34:36 GMT
it's still OK you know to want better.
There was a time where men and women spoke with passion. You may not agree with the words they said, but they were better. They were educated, eloquent, principled, passionate and filled with conviction.
it's okay to want better, we deserve better. Don't let this shit be our benchmark.
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