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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 23, 2024 16:16:29 GMT
Isn’t it a bit of a tired old trope to suggest that some random Jewish person is pulling all the strings behind the scenes of government?
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Post by gawa on Apr 23, 2024 18:22:38 GMT
Isn’t it a bit of a tired old trope to suggest that some random Jewish person is pulling all the strings behind the scenes of government? Its also a trope to criticise the actions of Israel according to some definitions. This man is a chair of a "charity" which pursued a smear campaign against the last Labour leader. The same man was identified this weekend acting as an agent provocateur to try and incite violence and architect antisemitism which he attempted to weaponise against the police and peaceful demonstrations he doesn't like. If that's not interfering with our democracy, government and policing then I'm not sure what is. The same individual also attempted to ban Tommy Robinson from attending an antisemitism march and managed to pressure the police into issuing a section 35 notice against him and later arresting him. Something which was overturned today. Because he didn't want people like Tommy Robinson being associated with his movement. So no its not a trope in the slightest. Its a fact. Some Christians are very powerful. Some Muslims are very powerful. Some Jews are very powerful. Stating that or discussing that isn't racist. There's no definition adopted by the uk which makes you racist for talking about powerful Christians or Muslims. I believe in equality. If there are jewish people exerting influence and control I'll call it out. The weaponisation of antisemitism is being found out for what it is. A means to censor discussion.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 23, 2024 18:42:42 GMT
Isn’t it a bit of a tired old trope to suggest that some random Jewish person is pulling all the strings behind the scenes of government? I can't really add any more than that which gawa has so eloquently said. Hopefully, in light of recent events, we will see Starmer demonstrably putting some distance between the Labour party and Falter.
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Post by gawa on Apr 23, 2024 18:53:49 GMT
Isn’t it a bit of a tired old trope to suggest that some random Jewish person is pulling all the strings behind the scenes of government? I can't really add any more than that which gawa has so eloquently said. Hopefully, in light of recent events, we will see Starmer demonstrably putting some distance between the Labour party and Falter. Could you imagine if Sadiq Khan had received this over a few years from the Pakistan Lobby. There certainly would be questions in parliament and the media about the source of the funds and if a foreign entity is exerting influence. It's only antisemetic because they want to censor you from talking about it. We regularly hear about China and Russian interference but that's not racist. We need to discuss Israel interference now.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 23, 2024 20:51:17 GMT
Isn’t it a bit of a tired old trope to suggest that some random Jewish person is pulling all the strings behind the scenes of government? Its also a trope to criticise the actions of Israel according to some definitions. This man is a chair of a "charity" which pursued a smear campaign against the last Labour leader. The same man was identified this weekend acting as an agent provocateur to try and incite violence and architect antisemitism which he attempted to weaponise against the police and peaceful demonstrations he doesn't like. If that's not interfering with our democracy, government and policing then I'm not sure what is. The same individual also attempted to ban Tommy Robinson from attending an antisemitism march and managed to pressure the police into issuing a section 35 notice against him and later arresting him. Something which was overturned today. Because he didn't want people like Tommy Robinson being associated with his movement. So no its not a trope in the slightest. Its a fact. Some Christians are very powerful. Some Muslims are very powerful. Some Jews are very powerful. Stating that or discussing that isn't racist. There's no definition adopted by the uk which makes you racist for talking about powerful Christians or Muslims. I believe in equality. If there are jewish people exerting influence and control I'll call it out. The weaponisation of antisemitism is being found out for what it is. A means to censor discussion. So, you think that a vote for Starmer is actually a vote for this fella and that he’ll be running the country in the shadows then? That’s what the caption of the tweet came with. To me, that’s a bit far.
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Post by gawa on Apr 23, 2024 21:01:54 GMT
Its also a trope to criticise the actions of Israel according to some definitions. This man is a chair of a "charity" which pursued a smear campaign against the last Labour leader. The same man was identified this weekend acting as an agent provocateur to try and incite violence and architect antisemitism which he attempted to weaponise against the police and peaceful demonstrations he doesn't like. If that's not interfering with our democracy, government and policing then I'm not sure what is. The same individual also attempted to ban Tommy Robinson from attending an antisemitism march and managed to pressure the police into issuing a section 35 notice against him and later arresting him. Something which was overturned today. Because he didn't want people like Tommy Robinson being associated with his movement. So no its not a trope in the slightest. Its a fact. Some Christians are very powerful. Some Muslims are very powerful. Some Jews are very powerful. Stating that or discussing that isn't racist. There's no definition adopted by the uk which makes you racist for talking about powerful Christians or Muslims. I believe in equality. If there are jewish people exerting influence and control I'll call it out. The weaponisation of antisemitism is being found out for what it is. A means to censor discussion. So, you think that a vote for Starmer is actually a vote for this fella and that he’ll be running the country in the shadows then? That’s what the caption of the tweet came with. To me, that’s a bit far. Oh no not at all lol. But he is the chair of an organisation who have had alot of influence over the Labour party. Do I think they run the party or starmer? No. But I do think they exert significant influence in certain areas. I don't think Starmers policy on Israel is because he thinks its "the right thing". And I think Corbyn being smeared as antisemetic is largely related to his policy on Israel too.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 24, 2024 23:10:22 GMT
Wasn't really sure where to post this, so I thought I'd leave it here ...
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Post by desman2 on Apr 24, 2024 23:42:08 GMT
Wasn't really sure where to post this, so I thought I'd leave it here ... Interesting that one Paul
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Post by wannabee on Apr 25, 2024 0:23:43 GMT
Wasn't really sure where to post this, so I thought I'd leave it here ... It was ever thus The proposition being that Starmer needs to jettison Rayner, not for any indiscretion, but to prove to the Establishment that he can be controlled and by extention fit for Office. We shall have to await to see how events unfold Oh how I long for the simplicity of the imaginings of of a Mr Coke that Sovereignty, Democracy and Control rests with "The People" who exercise their suffrage to elect the next Plonker in line to feed at the trough, so all's well with the World
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 25, 2024 0:50:23 GMT
Wasn't really sure where to post this, so I thought I'd leave it here ... It was ever thus The proposition being that Starmer needs to jettison Rayner, not for any indiscretion, but to prove to the Establishment that he can be controlled and by extention fit for Office. We shall have to await to see how events unfold Oh how I long for the simplicity of the imaginings of of a Mr Coke that Sovereignty, Democracy and Control rests with "The People" who exercise their suffrage to elect the next Plonker in line to feed at the trough, so all's well with the World
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 25, 2024 6:20:18 GMT
Starmer pledges to nationalise trains as their contracts end within the first 5 years of government. Good move.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 25, 2024 6:23:58 GMT
Starmer pledges to nationalise trains as their contracts end within the first 5 years of government. Good move. Indeed..it was one of his "pledges" so nothing new. Apart from the fact the initial "pledge" included water and power as well, which he's dropped. He can't be trusted I'm afraid.
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Post by professorplump on Apr 25, 2024 6:45:50 GMT
Starmer pledges to nationalise trains as their contracts end within the first 5 years of government. Good move. I'm not against renationalising the trains but I remember the days of British Rail in the 1970's and 80's and the service was absolutely rubbish, much worse than it is now. Hopefully this time it will be given the investment that it needs but I have my doubts.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 25, 2024 6:48:01 GMT
Starmer pledges to nationalise trains as their contracts end within the first 5 years of government. Good move. Indeed..it was one of his "pledges" so nothing new. Apart from the fact the initial "pledge" included water and power as well, which he's dropped. He can't be trusted I'm afraid. Let’s see. You criticise him for pledging something you agree with so he obviously can never do right by you (he has no power to make it more than just a pledge whilst in opposition).
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Apr 25, 2024 7:01:06 GMT
Indeed..it was one of his "pledges" so nothing new. Apart from the fact the initial "pledge" included water and power as well, which he's dropped. He can't be trusted I'm afraid. Let’s see. You criticise him for pledging something you agree with so he obviously can never do right by you (he has no power to make it more than just a pledge whilst in opposition). I criticise him for abandoning the pledges that he got himself elected on yes. Is that difficult to understand?
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Post by lordb on Apr 25, 2024 7:10:49 GMT
Starmer pledges to nationalise trains as their contracts end within the first 5 years of government. Good move. I'm not against renationalising the trains but I remember the days of British Rail in the 1970's and 80's and the service was absolutely rubbish, much worse than it is now. Hopefully this time it will be given the investment that it needs but I have my doubts. It was worse in that the trains were old, knackered, vandalised andeven later than they are now However there were more trains, late trains to all sorts places they were AFFORDABLE You used to be able to turn up at Stoke Station and get a train to London that didn't cost the size of a small countries national debt
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Post by adri2008 on Apr 25, 2024 9:12:26 GMT
Starmer pledges to nationalise trains as their contracts end within the first 5 years of government. Good move. I'm not against renationalising the trains but I remember the days of British Rail in the 1970's and 80's and the service was absolutely rubbish, much worse than it is now. Hopefully this time it will be given the investment that it needs but I have my doubts. It never made sense to have the railways under private ownership (as it's an effective monopoly) though nationalisation is by no means a silver bullet. The government is more than capable of providing a dog shit service and I fear when it comes to tight budgets, this will be something liable to get cut as it's not a necessity. Also to be fair to the franchises, some of them have done a good job - EMR (my local one) has been run well in my opinion.
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Post by phileetin on Apr 25, 2024 9:16:31 GMT
they will be the best trains in the world , unfortunately they won't be running cos the unions will be on strike .
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Post by wannabee on Apr 25, 2024 9:54:03 GMT
Let’s see. You criticise him for pledging something you agree with so he obviously can never do right by you (he has no power to make it more than just a pledge whilst in opposition). I criticise him for abandoning the pledges that he got himself elected on yes. Is that difficult to understand? As you know I'm no great fan of Starmer either but my main gripe is he lacks courage on moral socialist principles both domestically and internationally We have to recognise that the UK Debt when Corbyn resigned in December 2019 was £1.9 Trillion it is now £2.65 Trillion and interest rate payments have gone up, Thanks Liz The two big hurdles Labour have to overcome in Public Perception is Financial and Defence. Now the former is hard to defend by the Tories but if Labour announce anything unfunded the Tories and their attack dog Media are all over it. On Defence Rishi was being all Statesman like yesterday in Poland announcing increased spending on Defense the numbers are smoke and mirrors and the lesser actual portion is unfunded this clip will explain better than I. When John Healey pointed this out in HoC the retort from Chaps was Corbyn wanted to scrap Trident It's all Party Games and mudslinging and see how much shit sticks. Most of the Electorate ignore it just pick up the Headlines from their favourite Comic Book
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 25, 2024 9:56:15 GMT
Starmer pledges to nationalise trains as their contracts end within the first 5 years of government. Good move. I'm not against renationalising the trains but I remember the days of British Rail in the 1970's and 80's and the service was absolutely rubbish, much worse than it is now. Hopefully this time it will be given the investment that it needs but I have my doubts. To be fair, most of the workers from the 70s/80s are now retired.
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Post by oggyoggy on Apr 25, 2024 17:08:18 GMT
Let’s see. You criticise him for pledging something you agree with so he obviously can never do right by you (he has no power to make it more than just a pledge whilst in opposition). I criticise him for abandoning the pledges that he got himself elected on yes. Is that difficult to understand? I understand completely and you know my argument is that the world and the UK has changed dramatically since 2019 when he made the pledges. And when he confirms he isn’t abandoning one of them that is surely a good thing?
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Post by gawa on Apr 25, 2024 19:02:46 GMT
I criticise him for abandoning the pledges that he got himself elected on yes. Is that difficult to understand? As you know I'm no great fan of Starmer either but my main gripe is he lacks courage on moral socialist principles both domestically and internationally We have to recognise that the UK Debt when Corbyn resigned in December 2019 was £1.9 Trillion it is now £2.65 Trillion and interest rate payments have gone up, Thanks Liz The two big hurdles Labour have to overcome in Public Perception is Financial and Defence. Now the former is hard to defend by the Tories but if Labour announce anything unfunded the Tories and their attack dog Media are all over it. On Defence Rishi was being all Statesman like yesterday in Poland announcing increased spending on Defense the numbers are smoke and mirrors and the lesser actual portion is unfunded this clip will explain better than I. When John Healey pointed this out in HoC the retort from Chaps was Corbyn wanted to scrap Trident It's all Party Games and mudslinging and see how much shit sticks. Most of the Electorate ignore it just pick up the Headlines from their favourite Comic Book Are you voting for labour?
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Post by gawa on Apr 25, 2024 19:06:07 GMT
It should be remembered that Labour's announcement through social media late yesterday evening coincided with this earlier in the evening;
Which by no coincidence has been overshadowed in todays news.
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Post by chuffedstokie on Apr 25, 2024 19:37:59 GMT
I'm not against renationalising the trains but I remember the days of British Rail in the 1970's and 80's and the service was absolutely rubbish, much worse than it is now. Hopefully this time it will be given the investment that it needs but I have my doubts. It never made sense to have the railways under private ownership (as it's an effective monopoly) though nationalisation is by no means a silver bullet. The government is more than capable of providing a dog shit service and I fear when it comes to tight budgets, this will be something liable to get cut as it's not a necessity. Also to be fair to the franchises, some of them have done a good job - EMR (my local one) has been run well in my opinion. Network Rail (publicly owned) are supposed to look after the infrastructure, peel back the layers and they couldn't organise a children's party. Northern rail (publicly owned last 4 years) can barely get a train on time. It's not all bad news though, LNER has been in public hands for years and is a premier league TOC along with SER. It's the management within the organisations where things begin to crumble. All rolling stock will still be leased but if NR got their act together we'd see a much more efficient network. Speaking personally I'm disappointed that HS2 got pulled but the costs needn't have spiralled had it not been mismanaged. My eyes were particularly opened by my driver on the footplate of a steam engine over the last two days who happens to have an insight into these things. Locally TfW are slashing the timetable on the Cambrian to 3 trains a day, another mass signature petition underway to combat that, people who don't use the service dictating to those that do, thanks (not) Labour and Plaid. Essentially the system requires more capacity and to be better managed, it's an unwieldy beast.
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Post by wannabee on Apr 25, 2024 22:19:49 GMT
As you know I'm no great fan of Starmer either but my main gripe is he lacks courage on moral socialist principles both domestically and internationally We have to recognise that the UK Debt when Corbyn resigned in December 2019 was £1.9 Trillion it is now £2.65 Trillion and interest rate payments have gone up, Thanks Liz The two big hurdles Labour have to overcome in Public Perception is Financial and Defence. Now the former is hard to defend by the Tories but if Labour announce anything unfunded the Tories and their attack dog Media are all over it. On Defence Rishi was being all Statesman like yesterday in Poland announcing increased spending on Defense the numbers are smoke and mirrors and the lesser actual portion is unfunded this clip will explain better than I. When John Healey pointed this out in HoC the retort from Chaps was Corbyn wanted to scrap Trident It's all Party Games and mudslinging and see how much shit sticks. Most of the Electorate ignore it just pick up the Headlines from their favourite Comic Book Are you voting for labour? If I told you, I'd have to kill you #anyonebuttory
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Post by gawa on Apr 29, 2024 9:35:22 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 29, 2024 10:52:07 GMT
This is the Starmer we see when put under even the smallest level of scrutiny by a journalist. Will be interest to see how things pan out towards election day if he gets grilled more often.....
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Post by gawa on Apr 29, 2024 11:50:36 GMT
This is the Starmer we see when put under even the smallest level of scrutiny by a journalist. Will be interest to see how things pan out towards election day if he gets grilled more often..... Problem is he hasn't and won't be scrutinised by any main stream media. Do you remember Boris ever being scrutinised? He was covered up for his blunders. Starmer is Murdochs man so it's an easy ride here on in just like it's been from the day he became leader. There'll be a few weak slaps to appear impartial. That video is excellent by the way. 15 years of voting for independence and he doesn't give a fuck about the will of the people. But with brexit he does? Because a few rich people don't like the EU laws on tax evasion.
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Post by gawa on Apr 29, 2024 12:16:17 GMT
Just Starmer using the blue tory attack line on Scotland by focusing on NHS despite the fact that Welsh run Labour has much worse waiting lists.
Do the bbc challenge him? Of course they don't. Because he's the establishments man.
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Post by deeside2 on Apr 29, 2024 12:24:31 GMT
Starmer really is useless isn't he. The Tories have been an absolute disaster but a Labour govt under Starmer will just be more of the same if not even worse. Whenever I've seen him interviewed he always comes across as utterly spineless and clueless. I've watched a lot of his interviews and at the end of them I've still not got any idea what he's actually said.
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