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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 8, 2022 21:07:54 GMT
Perhaps not for this thread, but..... Why is it that , in recent history.... The Tories hold their "great" leader, Thatcher in high esteem? Whilst Labour supporters try to disown and discredit their" great" leader, Blair? Two reasons, in my opinion. The Iraq War tarnished Blair's tenure beyond redemption. Without his full-blooded support of the invasion, his lasting legacy would be around be significant growth of the economy, investment in public services and signing the Good Friday Agreement. It's also the case that being more left-leaning than the Conservatives, Labour are far more inclined to give a more thoughtful critique of their leader. The Conservatives are a party almost solely driven by the need for power - if someone delivers that for them at a rate rate Thatcher did, then they are basically God-like in the eyes of the membership.
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 8, 2022 21:19:04 GMT
I think that is an excellent point about CONVICTION , Susan , I didn't really think of that. We are desperately in need of a leader at present who the public can see is genuinely passionate about the direction of the country..... not just a politician trying to " duck and dive" all questions, see which way the wind is blowing and follow on...... That's why alot of people like Farage, in my opinion. You mean someone who could deliver a speech like this? Really does hit home how the talent and genuine conviction in Westminister on all sides is at an all time low.
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 10, 2022 19:58:16 GMT
We see you, Wes, we see you!
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 11, 2022 8:33:29 GMT
We see you, Wes, we see you! Is this tweet in support of Starmer or having a pop at him. Because, it seems to favour the notion that Starmer is now further to the right in his politics than any of the Tory candidates for pm. Maybe his parents should have called him Ramsay.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 11, 2022 9:37:41 GMT
We see you, Wes, we see you! Is this tweet in support of Starmer or having a pop at him. Because, it seems to favour the notion that Starmer is now further to the right in his politics than any of the Tory candidates for pm. Maybe his parents should have called him Ramsay. How does it suggest that he is further to the right than the Conservative candidates?
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Post by thewonderstuff on Jul 11, 2022 9:57:46 GMT
We see you, Wes, we see you! Is this tweet in support of Starmer or having a pop at him. Because, it seems to favour the notion that Starmer is now further to the right in his politics than any of the Tory candidates for pm. Maybe his parents should have called him Ramsay. I'm sure Wesley thought he was being helpful, unfortunately the mask has slipped somewhat!
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 11, 2022 10:36:19 GMT
Is this tweet in support of Starmer or having a pop at him. Because, it seems to favour the notion that Starmer is now further to the right in his politics than any of the Tory candidates for pm. Maybe his parents should have called him Ramsay. How does it suggest that he is further to the right than the Conservative candidates? It's just a wee joke!
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 11, 2022 11:06:50 GMT
Is this tweet in support of Starmer or having a pop at him. Because, it seems to favour the notion that Starmer is now further to the right in his politics than any of the Tory candidates for pm. Maybe his parents should have called him Ramsay. How does it suggest that he is further to the right than the Conservative candidates? So what’s you opinion on tepid kiers sudden conversion to brexit and no freedom of movement
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2022 11:13:43 GMT
How does it suggest that he is further to the right than the Conservative candidates? So what’s you opinion on tepid kiers sudden conversion to brexit and no freedom of movement Did you see his speech earlier? Are you confusing tepid with realism? Keir shits all over any of those Tory candidates.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 11, 2022 11:17:57 GMT
So what’s you opinion on tepid kiers sudden conversion to brexit and no freedom of movement Did you see his speech earlier? Are you confusing tepid with realism? Keir shits all over any of those Tory candidates. But the question is what do his apparent disciples think of his sudden conversation to brexit and his new found dislike of freedom of movement
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2022 11:19:56 GMT
Did you see his speech earlier? Are you confusing tepid with realism? Keir shits all over any of those Tory candidates. But the question is what do his apparent disciples think of his sudden conversation to brexit and his new found dislike of freedom of movement Who cares. Brexit is done.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 11, 2022 11:28:51 GMT
But the question is what do his apparent disciples think of his sudden conversation to brexit and his new found dislike of freedom of movement Who cares. Brexit is done. I would suggest an awful lot of the current Labour Party Who have Spent the last six years trying to undermine the brexit vote And cost the last leader his job over it (especially tepid kier ) Who has apparently been on his own road to Damascus if he’s to be believed
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Post by foster on Jul 11, 2022 11:31:03 GMT
Who cares. Brexit is done. I would suggest an awful lot of the current Labour Party Who have Spent the last six years trying to undermine the brexit vote And cost the last leader his job over it (especially tepid kier ) Who has apparently been on his own road to Damascus if he’s to be believed Keir seems to have the support of the party which is all that matters. Let Brexit go mate.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 11, 2022 11:40:47 GMT
I would suggest an awful lot of the current Labour Party Who have Spent the last six years trying to undermine the brexit vote And cost the last leader his job over it (especially tepid kier ) Who has apparently been on his own road to Damascus if he’s to be believed Keir seems to have the support of the party which is all that matters. Let Brexit go mate. Well we’ll see what support he has at the next party conference As for letting brexit go I will when I can be sure the back stabbing bastard is genuine in his sudden conversion to brexit
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Jul 11, 2022 12:30:19 GMT
Keir seems to have the support of the party which is all that matters. Let Brexit go mate. Well we’ll see what support he has at the next party conference As for letting brexit go I will when I can be sure the back stabbing bastard is genuine in his sudden conversion to brexit Rejoin in any form at the min is election suicide, Stramer knows that even tho I’m sure if you offered him a straight choice with no repercussions he’d be straight back in but that’s not how the world works. Let’s not pretend Johnson’s commitment to brexit was anything more than self interest
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 11, 2022 12:34:24 GMT
How does it suggest that he is further to the right than the Conservative candidates? So what’s you opinion on tepid kiers sudden conversion to brexit and no freedom of movement I doubt he's converted - I suspect he still thinks it was a shit idea. However, he also seems to realise that we have now left the EU and his job as Prime Minister would be to move on and try and make the most of the situation in front of him.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2022 13:07:42 GMT
What are the main three or four actual policies/ strategies that Starmer has , that make a complete contrast with the new Tory leader ( a genuine question, I'm not sure, and I presume someone on here might know). ( I'm not talking about acting with honesty, integrity etc....just policies) .....or it too soon before an election to say.
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Post by lordb on Jul 11, 2022 13:20:33 GMT
What are the main three or four actual policies/ strategies that Starmer has , that make a complete contrast with the new Tory leader ( a genuine question, I'm not sure, and I presume someone on here might know). ( I'm not talking about acting with honesty, integrity etc....just policies) .....or it too soon before an election to say. manifesto's come out, rightly, at election time as an opposition leader you can flag a couple of policies but you can't be definitive until election time it's a fundamental problem with our democracy you want the opposition to have their own proposals but they can't really, or at least not in great detail
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Jul 11, 2022 15:13:05 GMT
What are the main three or four actual policies/ strategies that Starmer has , that make a complete contrast with the new Tory leader ( a genuine question, I'm not sure, and I presume someone on here might know). ( I'm not talking about acting with honesty, integrity etc....just policies) .....or it too soon before an election to say. Problem is, if he releases them now, the tories have chance to see how they play them steal the good ones Blair made a career of stealing policies I suspect Stramer knows this and is keen to ensure something similar doesn’t happen to him
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Post by felonious on Jul 11, 2022 15:13:21 GMT
What are the main three or four actual policies/ strategies that Starmer has , that make a complete contrast with the new Tory leader ( a genuine question, I'm not sure, and I presume someone on here might know). ( I'm not talking about acting with honesty, integrity etc....just policies) .....or it too soon before an election to say. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62125015 .... the BBC are asking the same question "He needs to let his guard down and let people see his character, his sense of humour - what he is like after a few drinks". Perhaps he should give his speeches from Durham
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Jul 11, 2022 15:15:29 GMT
Keir seems to have the support of the party which is all that matters. Let Brexit go mate. Well we’ll see what support he has at the next party conference As for letting brexit go I will when I can be sure the back stabbing bastard is genuine in his sudden conversion to brexit With all respect brexit is dead as an issue for the Majority of the electorate, look at the recent by-elections for proof of this, a heavy leave voting area just voted Lib Dem
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2022 15:20:26 GMT
What are the main three or four actual policies/ strategies that Starmer has , that make a complete contrast with the new Tory leader ( a genuine question, I'm not sure, and I presume someone on here might know). ( I'm not talking about acting with honesty, integrity etc....just policies) .....or it too soon before an election to say. Problem is, if he releases them now, the tories have chance to see how they play them steal the good ones Blair made a career of stealing policies I suspect Stramer knows this and is keen to ensure something similar doesn’t happen to him Perhaps true.....but what is his Unique Selling Point?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2022 15:49:43 GMT
What are the main three or four actual policies/ strategies that Starmer has , that make a complete contrast with the new Tory leader ( a genuine question, I'm not sure, and I presume someone on here might know). ( I'm not talking about acting with honesty, integrity etc....just policies) .....or it too soon before an election to say. Problem is, if he releases them now, the tories have chance to see how they play them steal the good ones Blair made a career of stealing policies I suspect Stramer knows this and is keen to ensure something similar doesn’t happen to him Keir Starmer's search for a vision goes on www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62125015.amp
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Post by stokiemac on Jul 11, 2022 15:52:17 GMT
As usual I think the strategists are taking their lead from the US, post Trump people went for old, experienced and dull (I don't mean that as a criticism of Biden I was happy he won but his appeal was that he was less polarising and well experienced in the game) and I think Labour are trying the same plan with Starmer after Corbyns strong views were rejected
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Post by yeokel on Jul 11, 2022 16:00:08 GMT
What are the main three or four actual policies/ strategies that Starmer has , that make a complete contrast with the new Tory leader ( a genuine question, I'm not sure, and I presume someone on here might know). ( I'm not talking about acting with honesty, integrity etc....just policies) .....or it too soon before an election to say. Problem is, if he releases them now, the tories have chance to see how they play them steal the good ones Blair made a career of stealing policies I suspect Stramer knows this and is keen to ensure something similar doesn’t happen to him " if he releases them now, the tories have chance to see how they play them steal the good ones" I don't see the problem with that. Virtually all politicians would have us believe that they would put country first over personal and party ambitions. If they have ideas that would benefit the country, they should be shouting about them from the rooftops for the benefit of us all, not keeping them hidden and making us all suffer. If the gov't pinches the ideas and they work, then that's great - we all benefit. And if the gov't doesn't pinch them, then they've made a major step towards their campaign to gain power by possibly starting a/the national debate about the policy. That, in turn, might help them to develop said policy.. Surely either of those are better than keeping any bright ideas they may have carefully hidden away until an election is called when there would be no time for mature discussion and consideration of the ideas?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 11, 2022 16:11:33 GMT
Problem is, if he releases them now, the tories have chance to see how they play them steal the good ones Blair made a career of stealing policies I suspect Stramer knows this and is keen to ensure something similar doesn’t happen to him " if he releases them now, the tories have chance to see how they play them steal the good ones" I don't see the problem with that. Virtually all politicians would have us believe that they would put country first over personal and party ambitions. If they have ideas that would benefit the country, they should be shouting about them from the rooftops for the benefit of us all, not keeping them hidden and making us all suffer. If the gov't pinches the ideas and they work, then that's great - we all benefit. And if the gov't doesn't pinch them, then they've made a major step towards their campaign to gain power by possibly starting a/the national debate about the policy. That, in turn, might help them to develop said policy.. Surely either of those are better than keeping any bright ideas they may have carefully hidden away until an election is called when there would be no time for mature discussion and consideration of the ideas? And also the " say nothing, just oppose" position allows the government to set the agenda. I thought the issues that we have had recently in respect of the Utilities and transport were a golden opportunity for Labour to talk about bringing those things into common ownership.....it doesn't have to be " like last time"....also when talking about class division and privilege, abolition of the House of Lords seems an obvious target....the name itself is a give away.....much more effective than targeting the Royal family, who at the moment , many people have affection for. Perhaps those things are not ( serioudly,) on Labour's agenda....but what is?
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Post by yeokel on Jul 11, 2022 16:19:53 GMT
" if he releases them now, the tories have chance to see how they play them steal the good ones" I don't see the problem with that. Virtually all politicians would have us believe that they would put country first over personal and party ambitions. If they have ideas that would benefit the country, they should be shouting about them from the rooftops for the benefit of us all, not keeping them hidden and making us all suffer. If the gov't pinches the ideas and they work, then that's great - we all benefit. And if the gov't doesn't pinch them, then they've made a major step towards their campaign to gain power by possibly starting a/the national debate about the policy. That, in turn, might help them to develop said policy.. Surely either of those are better than keeping any bright ideas they may have carefully hidden away until an election is called when there would be no time for mature discussion and consideration of the ideas? And also the " say nothing, just oppose" position allows the government to set the agenda. I thought the issues that we have had recently in respect of the Utilities and transport were a golden opportunity for Labour to talk about bringing those things into common ownership.....it doesn't have to be " like last time"....also when talking about class division and privilege, abolition of the House of Lords seems an obvious target....the name itself is a give away.....much more effective than targeting the Royal family, who at the moment , many people have affection for. Perhaps those things are not ( serioudly,) on Labour's agenda....but what is? Exactly. At the moment, they are saying precisely nothing. My message to Labour........ If you've got some great ideas, tell us about them; let us chat about them in the pubs, on social media and even, dare I say it, in the papers. Some ideas may get ridiculed - welcome that. If it's good enough, it will survive and gain supporters. If it needs further development, then develop it and listen to what people say. Or, if any criticism hits the mark, surely it's better to take that on board before it's too late. But, at the moment, the likes of me and BJR have no idea what you are thinking
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 11, 2022 16:50:20 GMT
" if he releases them now, the tories have chance to see how they play them steal the good ones" I don't see the problem with that. Virtually all politicians would have us believe that they would put country first over personal and party ambitions. If they have ideas that would benefit the country, they should be shouting about them from the rooftops for the benefit of us all, not keeping them hidden and making us all suffer. If the gov't pinches the ideas and they work, then that's great - we all benefit. And if the gov't doesn't pinch them, then they've made a major step towards their campaign to gain power by possibly starting a/the national debate about the policy. That, in turn, might help them to develop said policy.. Surely either of those are better than keeping any bright ideas they may have carefully hidden away until an election is called when there would be no time for mature discussion and consideration of the ideas? And also the " say nothing, just oppose" position allows the government to set the agenda. I thought the issues that we have had recently in respect of the Utilities and transport were a golden opportunity for Labour to talk about bringing those things into common ownership.....it doesn't have to be " like last time"....also when talking about class division and privilege, abolition of the House of Lords seems an obvious target....the name itself is a give away.....much more effective than targeting the Royal family, who at the moment , many people have affection for. Perhaps those things are not ( serioudly,) on Labour's agenda....but what is? According to the leader of Labour in Scotland, they would abolish the House of Lords if they get power: amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/04/labour-would-scrap-house-of-lords-says-scottish-party-leader-anas-sarwarI've not seen anything about it being confirmed as official Labour policy yet though.
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Post by questionable on Jul 11, 2022 16:50:56 GMT
Keir seems to have the support of the party which is all that matters. Let Brexit go mate. Well we’ll see what support he has at the next party conference As for letting brexit go I will when I can be sure the back stabbing bastard is genuine in his sudden conversion to brexit Christ I’d have Johnson back in a flash if rejoining the EU was on the table.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 11, 2022 16:55:27 GMT
Well we’ll see what support he has at the next party conference As for letting brexit go I will when I can be sure the back stabbing bastard is genuine in his sudden conversion to brexit Christ I’d have Johnson back in a flash if rejoining the EU was on the table. No established political party (as far as I'm aware) are campaigning for the UK to re-enter the EU. It's simply not on the cards.
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