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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 27, 2021 21:37:57 GMT
I haven't got much time for Starmer, whatsoever....on many fronts BUT
the 'problems' aren't just about him ... there's no one in his team or the party who seems impressive or talented.
A depressing party..,.the current debates and in fighting , Momentum etc ,are exactly the same as when I was in the party in the. 70s/80s , but then the agitation was called Militant Tendency.
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Post by chad on Sept 28, 2021 7:41:28 GMT
Oppose it? He pledged it as part of his leadership campaign and stood on a McDonalds picket line holding the banner. I wouldn’t trust a word he says….. No offence to the MacD staff but £31000 a year for serving burgers How much do they think the burger sale price would be Lunatic policy by a lunatic party. The sooner they are replaced by an opposition with some common sense more interested in the real world than internal voting procedures the better
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 28, 2021 7:52:41 GMT
I haven't got much time for Starmer, whatsoever....on many fronts BUT the 'problems' aren't just about him ... there's no one in his team or the party who seems impressive or talented. A depressing party..,.the current debates and in fighting , Momentum etc ,are exactly the same as when I was in the party in the. 70s/80s , but then the agitation was called Militant Tendency. I've no doubt there a a few like that John but the majority are just decent socialists fighting for a better world.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 28, 2021 8:13:19 GMT
During the Conference period .....A little look back .........to the same issues.
The millionaire Kinnock against the millionaire Derek Hatton
Jeremy has his say in 1988.....
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 28, 2021 8:24:09 GMT
Is this why Angela Raynor thinks Tories are scum? It was very noticeable how Rayner hides her smirk of content behind a Covid mask later in the shot. Love how Penny Mordaunt keeps referring to Rayner as "the right honourable lady" knowing full well she is anything but. Whilst Labour continue to roll out the likes of Rayner to stand as MPs in their party they will always be in opposition at best.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 28, 2021 8:29:09 GMT
I haven't got much time for Starmer, whatsoever....on many fronts BUT the 'problems' aren't just about him ... there's no one in his team or the party who seems impressive or talented. A depressing party..,.the current debates and in fighting , Momentum etc ,are exactly the same as when I was in the party in the. 70s/80s , but then the agitation was called Militant Tendency. I've no doubt there a a few like that John but the majority are just decent socialists fighting for a better world. I don't doubt that Paul, but it seems to me that no one emerges with character and leadership....and it shows. I guess most people who enter politics believe that they are fighting for a better world. And to be clear, I am sure the Labour party is full of sincere, committed, concerned people( that's not sarcastic).
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 28, 2021 8:32:13 GMT
I haven't got much time for Starmer, whatsoever....on many fronts BUT the 'problems' aren't just about him ... there's no one in his team or the party who seems impressive or talented. A depressing party..,.the current debates and in fighting , Momentum etc ,are exactly the same as when I was in the party in the. 70s/80s , but then the agitation was called Militant Tendency. I've no doubt there are a few like that John but the majority are just decent socialists fighting for a better world. And there lies the problem for them Huddy. The "decent socialists" are continually tripped up by "a few like that" grabbing the headlines which the right wing media home in on. Remember Dianne Abbott? I’m not Labour but old enough to understand the need to have a decent opposition party, a position which Labour may lose the way they are going.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 28, 2021 8:33:18 GMT
During the Conference period .....A little look back .........to the same issues. The millionaire Kinnock against the millionaire Derek Hatton Jeremy has his say in 1988..... There was a shift in the 1970s as the far left - typified by Tony Benn - who were obsessed with ideology rather than pragmatism established themselves in positions of influence in both the Labour Party and the unions. This clip from the Labour conference in 1976 illustrates this beautifully where the Chancellor, Denis Healey, had to deliver his iconic speech from the floor not the platform because he wasn’t a member of the NEC which, by then, had been taken over by the Labour left. This was actually an iconic moment in the history of British politics as it was when a senior political leader finally decided to face up to economic realities. Of course it went down badly with Benn and co. It’s a shame for Labour that Healey (and Callaghan) was unable to see it through.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 9:05:07 GMT
Oppose it? He pledged it as part of his leadership campaign and stood on a McDonalds picket line holding the banner. I wouldn’t trust a word he says….. No offence to the MacD staff but £31000 a year for serving burgers How much do they think the burger sale price would be Lunatic policy by a lunatic party. The sooner they are replaced by an opposition with some common sense more interested in the real world than internal voting procedures the better They'll earn £31,000 pro rata in the majority of cases as most are part time workers. In Denmark most staff on the shop floor earn around 20 dollars an hour, on the Big Mac Index (yes that's a thing) Denmark sits 5th at 4.32 dollars, it's below the USA by the way where not unlike Britain where we like to treat low paid workers like shit and get away with it........
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 9:32:30 GMT
I've no doubt there are a few like that John but the majority are just decent socialists fighting for a better world. And there lies the problem for them Huddy. The "decent socialists" are continually tripped up by "a few like that" grabbing the headlines which the right wing media home in on. Remember Dianne Abbott? I’m not Labour but old enough to understand the need to have a decent opposition party, a position which Labour may lose the way they are going. Why what did Diane Abbott do? Actually scrap that she drank a can of G&T on a train, burn her alive.......
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 28, 2021 9:46:32 GMT
And there lies the problem for them Huddy. The "decent socialists" are continually tripped up by "a few like that" grabbing the headlines which the right wing media home in on. Remember Dianne Abbott? I’m not Labour but old enough to understand the need to have a decent opposition party, a position which Labour may lose the way they are going. Why what did Diane Abbott do? Actually scrap that she drank a can of G&T on a train, burn her alive....... The attacks on Dianne Abbott are nothing more than shameful.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 28, 2021 10:06:43 GMT
Why what did Diane Abbott do? Actually scrap that she drank a can of G&T on a train, burn her alive....... The attacks on Dianne Abbott are nothing more than shameful. I agree some of the things written about her are a disgrace They should just stick to the fact she’s a racist hypocrite
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Post by dutchstokie on Sept 28, 2021 10:08:29 GMT
Why what did Diane Abbott do? Actually scrap that she drank a can of G&T on a train, burn her alive....... The attacks on Dianne Abbott are nothing more than shameful. But its OK for her to give out verbal abuse to her constituants?......... which in addition was a lot lot worse than what Angela Rayner came out with believe me I was witness to this years ago in Hackney..... I speak as I find and from what I witnessed shes just a bigot. Anyway that subject has been done to death and pulled apart on here many times over. Lets get back to Keir.....
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 28, 2021 10:16:28 GMT
Why what did Diane Abbott do? Actually scrap that she drank a can of G&T on a train, burn her alive....... The attacks on Dianne Abbott are nothing more than shameful. Agree completely. Same thing for the attacks on Priti Patel, don’t you agree.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 10:26:43 GMT
The attacks on Dianne Abbott are nothing more than shameful. Agree completely. Same thing for the attacks on Priti Patel, don’t you agree. Attacks on politicians or anyone else for that matter due to the colour of their skin are abhorrent, I think most of us would agree with that without having to list individuals........
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 28, 2021 11:14:51 GMT
Agree completely. Same thing for the attacks on Priti Patel, don’t you agree. Attacks on politicians or anyone else for that matter due to the colour of their skin are abhorrent, I think most of us would agree with that without having to list individuals........ I think most of us would agree with your first statement, not so sure about your second point. It’s interesting though that you choose to make your point after Priti Patel gets a name check rather than Diane Abbot. I wonder why.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 11:27:30 GMT
Attacks on politicians or anyone else for that matter due to the colour of their skin are abhorrent, I think most of us would agree with that without having to list individuals........ I think most of us would agree with your first statement, not so sure about your second point. It’s interesting though that you choose to make your point after Priti Patel gets a name check rather than Diane Abbot. I wonder why. It's quite simple really. Another poster mentioned Dianne Abbott and I responded. Because he didn't mention Priti Patel I didn't think to mention her as that would have been weird. I didn't ever mention skin colour, but by bringing Priti Patel into it you clearly wanted to to go down that route despite it having no real relevance. I wonder why.
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Post by OldStokie on Sept 28, 2021 11:35:20 GMT
Starmer is a 3rd rate Tony Blair. Besides being a backstabbing hypocrite and liar, he's as weak as piss, lacks 'presence', and has surrounded himself with those in his same image. No way will he ever win an election against the Tories because they'll eat him up and spit him out for breakfast. As a matter of fact the entire shadow front bench bar Raynor are clones of Starmer. As for Raynor, she's a stifled version of Jonathan Pye. 'Parliamentary language'. What that is, is that you can't really say what you want to say because The Establishment insist on rules to stifle real language. Instead, 'You' have to talk in riddles and innuendo to make your point. So, was Raynor right in what she said? Of course she was but what she did wrong was actually saying it in politically incorrect language. How much more 'scummy' can you get than having a racist, egotistical liar like Johnson as your leader, and a bunch of his incompetent front bench handing out billions to their crony mates when the opportunity arises? Dianne Abbott. For those of us who are not racist, the reason I would criticise her is because she also has no 'presence' and on top of that, she's a useless communicator. One of the worst things that's happened in politics in the last couple of decades is when Clegg sold out the Lib Dems for a company car in The Coalition of 2010/2015. The Lib Dems were on the rise and gaining a lot of respect for their fair-minded ideals until he did that. What he should have done was not gone into coalition and allowed a minority government to rule. It wouldn't have lasted long but it also wouldn't have destroyed the Liberal Democratic party. Now? Politics is shit from all sides and I wish Jonathan Pye would form a party. He'd win a massive majority if he did. OS.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 28, 2021 12:12:34 GMT
The attacks on Dianne Abbott are nothing more than shameful. But its OK for her to give out verbal abuse to her constituants?......... which in addition was a lot lot worse than what Angela Rayner came out with believe me I was witness to this years ago in Hackney..... I speak as I find and from what I witnessed shes just a bigot. Anyway that subject has been done to death and pulled apart on here many times over. Lets get back to Keir..... Strange that...she has one of the largest majorities in Parliament, which increased again in 2019. How odd......
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 28, 2021 12:13:26 GMT
The attacks on Dianne Abbott are nothing more than shameful. Agree completely. Same thing for the attacks on Priti Patel, don’t you agree. Totally yes. You?
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 28, 2021 12:16:26 GMT
But its OK for her to give out verbal abuse to her constituants?......... which in addition was a lot lot worse than what Angela Rayner came out with believe me I was witness to this years ago in Hackney..... I speak as I find and from what I witnessed shes just a bigot. Anyway that subject has been done to death and pulled apart on here many times over. Lets get back to Keir..... Strange that...she has one of the largest majorities in Parliament, which increased again in 2019. How odd...... Still doesn’t alter the fact she’s a racist hypocrite
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 28, 2021 12:28:28 GMT
Strange that...she has one of the largest majorities in Parliament, which increased again in 2019. How odd...... Still doesn’t alter the fact she’s a racist hypocrite The hypocrite is undisputed as is the IRA support before she got a different hairstyle, she's obviously mates with all the antisemites the Jezza is too but all those other comments that used to excite people were fairly dumb and crass things to say in some cases but not racist but then I apply the same critique to Boris.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 28, 2021 12:40:38 GMT
Agree completely. Same thing for the attacks on Priti Patel, don’t you agree. Totally yes. You? It looks like we are in full agreement.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 28, 2021 12:44:13 GMT
I think most of us would agree with your first statement, not so sure about your second point. It’s interesting though that you choose to make your point after Priti Patel gets a name check rather than Diane Abbot. I wonder why. It's quite simple really. Another poster mentioned Dianne Abbott and I responded. Because he didn't mention Priti Patel I didn't think to mention her as that would have been weird. I didn't ever mention skin colour, but by bringing Priti Patel into it you clearly wanted to to go down that route despite it having no real relevance. I wonder why. There seems to me to be a real problem in politics with excessive abuse being directed to women of colour regardless of political allegiance. But maybe I’m wrong about that.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 28, 2021 13:06:57 GMT
I think if KS was allowed to take Labour in the direction he wants he’d have a good shot at power
The left of Labour won’t let that happen, they’re not interested in power or actually being in a position to help the working people of this country
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2021 13:14:37 GMT
It's quite simple really. Another poster mentioned Dianne Abbott and I responded. Because he didn't mention Priti Patel I didn't think to mention her as that would have been weird. I didn't ever mention skin colour, but by bringing Priti Patel into it you clearly wanted to to go down that route despite it having no real relevance. I wonder why. There seems to me to be a real problem in politics with excessive abuse being directed to women of colour regardless of political allegiance. But maybe I’m wrong about that. I think they get the criticism they deserve no more than anyone else guilty of the similar comments or actions then the colour issue is brought into it. If Diane Abbott had made the minimum wage comment she would have been criticised in the same way then the whole race issue played at some point down the line.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 13:16:37 GMT
I think if KS was allowed to take Labour in the direction he wants he’d have a good shot at power The left of Labour won’t let that happen, they’re not interested in power or actually being in a position to help the working people of this country The left of Labour and those unions who are fighting against Starmer should all leave/drop their affiliation (in fairness 150,000 of them have and many more are just not campaigning any longer), the 30/40 socialist MP's should stand down as Labour MP's and a new party formed. They can mobilise and unlike the Change UK's world will have potentially hundreds of thousands of members paying subs as well as union backing. They will be happy, the current shower in charge will be happy, people like yourself will be happy. Everyone's happy. Then Labour can fight it out with the Lib Dems for who occupies the centre ground, and the establishment who wield all the power and money in this country will get a none threatening alternative to the Tories. Meanwhile those marginalised in society will remain so, but the empty platitudes will continue from those who love to talk about social justice but continuously tell us "now is not the time" Bring it on I say.........
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Post by chad on Sept 28, 2021 14:24:02 GMT
I think if KS was allowed to take Labour in the direction he wants he’d have a good shot at power The left of Labour won’t let that happen, they’re not interested in power or actually being in a position to help the working people of this country This I had real hopes when he replaced Corbyn that he would root out Momentum and introduce sensible electable policies Unfortunately the extreme left are slowly killing him and taking the party back to the unelectable shambles Corbyn left it in It’s a crying shame when the country really needs a strong opposition party
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 28, 2021 14:31:15 GMT
Strange that...she has one of the largest majorities in Parliament, which increased again in 2019. How odd...... Still doesn’t alter the fact she’s a racist hypocrite She is no such thing.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 28, 2021 14:38:27 GMT
I think if KS was allowed to take Labour in the direction he wants he’d have a good shot at power The left of Labour won’t let that happen, they’re not interested in power or actually being in a position to help the working people of this country The left of Labour and those unions who are fighting against Starmer should all leave/drop their affiliation (in fairness 150,000 of them have and many more are just not campaigning any longer), the 30/40 socialist MP's should stand down as Labour MP's and a new party formed. They can mobilise and unlike the Change UK's world will have potentially hundreds of thousands of members paying subs as well as union backing. They will be happy, the current shower in charge will be happy, people like yourself will be happy. Everyone's happy. Then Labour can fight it out with the Lib Dems for who occupies the centre ground, and the establishment who wield all the power and money in this country will get a none threatening alternative to the Tories. Meanwhile those marginalised in society will remain so, but the empty platitudes will continue from those who love to talk about social justice but continuously tell us "now is not the time" Bring it on I say......... won't any of these do, Prestwich? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)Taken from the Militant Tendency wiki page...... Revolutionary Socialist League Succeeded by Militant Labour 1991–1997 Scottish Militant Labour 1991–1997 Socialist Appeal 1992–present Socialist Party 1997–present Socialist Alternative 2019–present m.socialistparty.org.uk/www.socialistalternative.org/www.socialistalternative.net/.......
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