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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 28, 2021 14:42:57 GMT
Still doesn’t alter the fact she’s a racist hypocrite She is no such thing. So campaigning and arguing against private education And then sending your child to a fee paying school is not hypocritical? And as for racist comments there is plenty of evidence out there as your so fond of social media for you to trawl through Though I admit she’s not as bad as lammy
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 14:58:05 GMT
The left of Labour and those unions who are fighting against Starmer should all leave/drop their affiliation (in fairness 150,000 of them have and many more are just not campaigning any longer), the 30/40 socialist MP's should stand down as Labour MP's and a new party formed. They can mobilise and unlike the Change UK's world will have potentially hundreds of thousands of members paying subs as well as union backing. They will be happy, the current shower in charge will be happy, people like yourself will be happy. Everyone's happy. Then Labour can fight it out with the Lib Dems for who occupies the centre ground, and the establishment who wield all the power and money in this country will get a none threatening alternative to the Tories. Meanwhile those marginalised in society will remain so, but the empty platitudes will continue from those who love to talk about social justice but continuously tell us "now is not the time" Bring it on I say......... won't any of these do, Prestwich? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)Taken from the Militant Tendency wiki page...... Revolutionary Socialist League Succeeded by Militant Labour 1991–1997 Scottish Militant Labour 1991–1997 Socialist Appeal 1992–present Socialist Party 1997–present Socialist Alternative 2019–present m.socialistparty.org.uk/www.socialistalternative.org/www.socialistalternative.net/....... No, it needs to be led by the socialist members of the party and have the weight of a large membership and a couple of unions for something to truly build on. Different times and the amount of young people that want a party to fully take on the climate issue as well as social injustice would give them a decent starting base. The demographics of who voted in the last couple of elections demonstrate that. It won't happen by the way, but it should.......
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 28, 2021 14:58:38 GMT
So campaigning and arguing against private education And then sending your child to a fee paying school is not hypocritical? And as for racist comments there is plenty of evidence out there as your so fond of social media for you to trawl through Though I admit she’s not as bad as lammy She is unquestionably a hypocrite - but then I’ve yet to meet a politician who isn’t one. (And, let’s be honest… we are all hypocrites to one level or another). She absolutely isn’t racist. She speaks about race a lot. Sometimes very clumsily. And sometimes stupidly. But, as with another well known politician currently in charge of the country, that doesn’t make her (or him) racist.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 14:59:45 GMT
I think if KS was allowed to take Labour in the direction he wants he’d have a good shot at power The left of Labour won’t let that happen, they’re not interested in power or actually being in a position to help the working people of this country This I had real hopes when he replaced Corbyn that he would root out Momentum and introduce sensible electable policies Unfortunately the extreme left are slowly killing him and taking the party back to the unelectable shambles Corbyn left it in It’s a crying shame when the country really needs a strong opposition party Sensible electable policies such as what for example?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 15:04:36 GMT
So campaigning and arguing against private education And then sending your child to a fee paying school is not hypocritical? And as for racist comments there is plenty of evidence out there as your so fond of social media for you to trawl through Though I admit she’s not as bad as lammy She is unquestionably a hypocrite - but then I’ve yet to meet a politician who isn’t one. (And, let’s be honest… we are all hypocrites to one level or another). She absolutely isn’t racist. She speaks about race a lot. Sometimes very clumsily. And sometimes stupidly. But, as with another well known politician currently in charge of the country, that doesn’t make her (or him) racist. Abbott's legacy has been tainted which is a real shame as she was a pioneer of her time. I honestly think when she stepped down during the 2017 (?) campaign she should have called it a day as her health was not great and it seemed to me to affect her judgement and led to some of the piss taking about numeracy, wearing different shoes etc. She deserves more respect than she gets in my opinion, she has been the most abused politician over the last few years bar none and I have to say the levels of support from politicians in general but especially people in her own party has been pathetic.......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 28, 2021 15:10:57 GMT
No, it needs to be led by the socialist members of the party and have the weight of a large membership and a couple of unions for something to truly build on. Different times and the amount of young people that want a party to fully take on the climate issue as well as social injustice would give them a decent starting base. The demographics of who voted in the last couple of elections demonstrate that. It won't happen by the way, but it should....... I agree with your last sentence. Even if it did, I'm not sure it would gain any power. It seems bto me to be inevitable a green party, maybe the Green party will gain support in the coming years, whether people agree with green politics or not. Perhaps socialist policies could gain traction on the back of this...but I think the emphasis /label would have to be ' green' not ' socialist'
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 15:27:20 GMT
No, it needs to be led by the socialist members of the party and have the weight of a large membership and a couple of unions for something to truly build on. Different times and the amount of young people that want a party to fully take on the climate issue as well as social injustice would give them a decent starting base. The demographics of who voted in the last couple of elections demonstrate that. It won't happen by the way, but it should....... I agree with your last sentence. Even if it did, I'm not sure it would gain any power. It seems bto me to be inevitable a green party, maybe the Green party will gain support in the coming years, whether people agree with green politics or not. Perhaps socialist policies could gain traction on the back of this...but I think the emphasis /label would have to be ' green' not ' socialist' The Green Party could have mopped up hundreds of thousands of ex-Labour voters as members post 2019 if they'd have offered themselves as a natural home for those on the left (particularly the younger generation), but Lucas is still obsessed with Brexit it seems to be their only fixation so I think they may have missed a trick. I'm not suggesting they would get into power either, but they would shake things up at least. A party focused on a green new deal, workers rights and social justice........
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 28, 2021 16:08:03 GMT
I agree with your last sentence. Even if it did, I'm not sure it would gain any power. It seems bto me to be inevitable a green party, maybe the Green party will gain support in the coming years, whether people agree with green politics or not. Perhaps socialist policies could gain traction on the back of this...but I think the emphasis /label would have to be ' green' not ' socialist' The Green Party could have mopped up hundreds of thousands of ex-Labour voters as members post 2019 if they'd have offered themselves as a natural home for those on the left (particularly the younger generation), but Lucas is still obsessed with Brexit it seems to be their only fixation so I think they may have missed a trick. I'm not suggesting they would get into power either, but they would shake things up at least. A party focused on a green new deal, workers rights and social justice........ They could, but as you say they would not have got in power....given that Boris went for Brexit , there was a clear divide.,..and Brexit was always going to be the winner.....and if it had not have been ( if there was not a ' Brexit' option) then we would be in political chaos ( and no I don't think we are at present, just political limbo, incompetence, muddle and lack of direction)....... possibly talking about ' a period of national reflection ( or some such words).... followed by a call for another referendum etc, etc......and that's why I think Boris will be given a lot of slack....' getting Brexit done', along with dealing with COVID. ....and ' In any case, the alternative looks much, much worse.
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Post by adri2008 on Sept 28, 2021 16:34:35 GMT
Labour (or an alternative) need to find a way to appeal to those who have something to lose to have any chance of power. Few floating voters actually like BoJo and friends but if the alternative appears to be simply 'chucking things up in the air and see what happens' then they are going to continue to hold their nose and vote Tory by default. Too much focus on nationalisations etc which people like the sound of but not as a priority.
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Sept 28, 2021 16:54:32 GMT
I think if KS was allowed to take Labour in the direction he wants he’d have a good shot at power The left of Labour won’t let that happen, they’re not interested in power or actually being in a position to help the working people of this country The left of Labour and those unions who are fighting against Starmer should all leave/drop their affiliation (in fairness 150,000 of them have and many more are just not campaigning any longer), the 30/40 socialist MP's should stand down as Labour MP's and a new party formed. They can mobilise and unlike the Change UK's world will have potentially hundreds of thousands of members paying subs as well as union backing. They will be happy, the current shower in charge will be happy, people like yourself will be happy. Everyone's happy. Then Labour can fight it out with the Lib Dems for who occupies the centre ground, and the establishment who wield all the power and money in this country will get a none threatening alternative to the Tories. Meanwhile those marginalised in society will remain so, but the empty platitudes will continue from those who love to talk about social justice but continuously tell us "now is not the time" Bring it on I say......... What exactly do you think you achieve? The far left have never held power and never will. I mean you got smashed in the last election and you couldn’t even beat May, and I’m pretty sure everyone can agree she was shit 86% of people in this country are employees in this country work for some form of SME and a £15 NMW would cripple them. All the far left are doing is keeping the tories in power, a party out of power is pointless and helps nobody
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 28, 2021 17:31:27 GMT
Labour (or an alternative) need to find a way to appeal to those who have something to lose to have any chance of power. Few floating voters actually like BoJo and friends but if the alternative appears to be simply 'chucking things up in the air and see what happens' then they are going to continue to hold their nose and vote Tory by default. Too much focus on nationalisations etc which people like the sound of but not as a priority. I don't agree that few floating voters like Johnson. I am not a "pubber" but my b-in-l is, talks to lots of people, and he tells me there are loads of traditional Labour voters who have no time for any of the Labour leaders since Blair and they actually like Johnson. We are a approaching mid term for the government, a time when traditionally incumbent governments are at their least popular. Nevertheless the Tories are still significantly ahead in opinion polls, and the popularity of the minor parties is so low in England that they would be largely wiped out if an election was held today. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 17:46:59 GMT
The left of Labour and those unions who are fighting against Starmer should all leave/drop their affiliation (in fairness 150,000 of them have and many more are just not campaigning any longer), the 30/40 socialist MP's should stand down as Labour MP's and a new party formed. They can mobilise and unlike the Change UK's world will have potentially hundreds of thousands of members paying subs as well as union backing. They will be happy, the current shower in charge will be happy, people like yourself will be happy. Everyone's happy. Then Labour can fight it out with the Lib Dems for who occupies the centre ground, and the establishment who wield all the power and money in this country will get a none threatening alternative to the Tories. Meanwhile those marginalised in society will remain so, but the empty platitudes will continue from those who love to talk about social justice but continuously tell us "now is not the time" Bring it on I say......... What exactly do you think you achieve? The far left have never held power and never will. I mean you got smashed in the last election and you couldn’t even beat May, and I’m pretty sure everyone can agree she was shit 86% of people in this country are employees in this country work for some form of SME and a £15 NMW would cripple them. All the far left are doing is keeping the tories in power, a party out of power is pointless and helps nobody I don’t know what you mean by “far left” you’ll have to explain? And what happened under Brown and Milliband were the far left sabotaging from afar?
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Post by chad on Sept 28, 2021 17:53:13 GMT
She is unquestionably a hypocrite - but then I’ve yet to meet a politician who isn’t one. (And, let’s be honest… we are all hypocrites to one level or another). She absolutely isn’t racist. She speaks about race a lot. Sometimes very clumsily. And sometimes stupidly. But, as with another well known politician currently in charge of the country, that doesn’t make her (or him) racist. Abbott's legacy has been tainted which is a real shame as she was a pioneer of her time. I honestly think when she stepped down during the 2017 (?) campaign she should have called it a day as her health was not great and it seemed to me to affect her judgement and led to some of the piss taking about numeracy, wearing different shoes etc. She deserves more respect than she gets in my opinion, she has been the most abused politician over the last few years bar none and I have to say the levels of support from politicians in general but especially people in her own party has been pathetic....... I think Boris wins the most abused politician award by a country mile 😊
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 28, 2021 17:57:10 GMT
Keep digging dont worry though momentum are here hold their beer It's true though. In my working class hovel when I'm not tending to my pigeons or sleeping with my sister I refer to most things as "scum". "Scum" this and "scum" that, it's just what we do. "Morning vicar you absolute scumbag" I say jovially, and he laughs and calls me a nonce before giving me a blessing. Thanks for finally giving us a voice Angela........ Do you think Brendan O’Neil reads the Oatcake. He seems to have taken inspire from your comments… The trouble with ‘Angiemania’
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Post by chad on Sept 28, 2021 17:58:40 GMT
This I had real hopes when he replaced Corbyn that he would root out Momentum and introduce sensible electable policies Unfortunately the extreme left are slowly killing him and taking the party back to the unelectable shambles Corbyn left it in It’s a crying shame when the country really needs a strong opposition party Sensible electable policies such as what for example? Realistic ones. Ones that can be achieved without economic chaos. Not ones just designed to pull in left wing voters (Like increasing the minimum wage by 70% or taxing the rich so they all bugger off abroad) )
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 18:15:54 GMT
Sensible electable policies such as what for example? Realistic ones. Ones that can be achieved without economic chaos. Not ones just designed to pull in left wing voters (Like increasing the minimum wage by 70% or taxing the rich so they all bugger off abroad) ) Just name a couple, one even…….
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 18:16:50 GMT
It's true though. In my working class hovel when I'm not tending to my pigeons or sleeping with my sister I refer to most things as "scum". "Scum" this and "scum" that, it's just what we do. "Morning vicar you absolute scumbag" I say jovially, and he laughs and calls me a nonce before giving me a blessing. Thanks for finally giving us a voice Angela........ Do you think Brendan O’Neil reads the Oatcake. He seems to have taken inspire from your comments… The trouble with ‘Angiemania’Good lad is Brendan……
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Post by chad on Sept 28, 2021 18:38:53 GMT
Realistic ones. Ones that can be achieved without economic chaos. Not ones just designed to pull in left wing voters (Like increasing the minimum wage by 70% or taxing the rich so they all bugger off abroad) ) Just name a couple, one even……. How about 1. An overall review of the NHS especially the wasted admin and non essential staffing Not just lets throw more money at it 2 An overall review of the criminal justice system. One which leads to longer and harsher sentences for violent criminals If we need to lock more people away for longer build more prisons. Less stupid paperwork for police officers 3 Scrap HS2 4 Fining doctors who refuse to see people face to face Obviously though internal voting systems must take absolute priority
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 28, 2021 21:33:43 GMT
Just name a couple, one even……. How about 1. An overall review of the NHS especially the wasted admin and non essential staffing Not just lets throw more money at it 2 An overall review of the criminal justice system. One which leads to longer and harsher sentences for violent criminals If we need to lock more people away for longer build more prisons. Less stupid paperwork for police officers 3 Scrap HS2 4 Fining doctors who refuse to see people face to face Obviously though internal voting systems must take absolute priority Ah the classic “red tape” policies, they will inspire the next generation of voters. Don’t disagree re: HS2……
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 29, 2021 7:36:53 GMT
So campaigning and arguing against private education And then sending your child to a fee paying school is not hypocritical? And as for racist comments there is plenty of evidence out there as your so fond of social media for you to trawl through Though I admit she’s not as bad as lammy Seriously mate you need to educate yourself on the definition of racism. You're spouting the stuff that Crappy used to post and it does you no favours.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 29, 2021 7:50:34 GMT
So campaigning and arguing against private education And then sending your child to a fee paying school is not hypocritical? And as for racist comments there is plenty of evidence out there as your so fond of social media for you to trawl through Though I admit she’s not as bad as lammy Seriously mate you need to educate yourself on the definition of racism. You're spouting the stuff that Crappy used to post and it does you no favours. So at least you’re not denying she’s a hypocrite any more On the other matter why was she forced to apologise by the then labour leader For the remark white people love to divide and rule Of course I’m sure I can find plenty of other examples if I could be arsed
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 29, 2021 7:54:20 GMT
Seriously mate you need to educate yourself on the definition of racism. You're spouting the stuff that Crappy used to post and it does you no favours. So at least you’re not denying she’s a hypocrite any more On the other matter why was she forced to apologise by the then labour leader For the remark white people love to divide and rule Of course I’m sure I can find plenty of other examples if I could be arsed I never did deny it.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 29, 2021 7:56:29 GMT
So campaigning and arguing against private education And then sending your child to a fee paying school is not hypocritical? And as for racist comments there is plenty of evidence out there as your so fond of social media for you to trawl through Though I admit she’s not as bad as lammy Seriously mate you need to educate yourself on the definition of racism. You're spouting the stuff that Crappy used to post and it does you no favours. I thought the definition of racism was just to pluck a few questionable random quotes from history, if Boris had said the quote about finnish nurses based on their blonde hair and blue eyes you'd be wittering on about dog whistles and the far right but then you have alot in common with Dianne on hypocrisy.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 29, 2021 7:58:21 GMT
So at least you’re not denying she’s a hypocrite any more On the other matter why was she forced to apologise by the then labour leader For the remark white people love to divide and rule Of course I’m sure I can find plenty of other examples if I could be arsed I never did deny it. I’m sure she’s a good constituency mp and helped many But as a individual I’m sure we will not agree on all of her merits or lack of So I shall leave it at that
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 29, 2021 9:32:29 GMT
Seriously mate you need to educate yourself on the definition of racism. You're spouting the stuff that Crappy used to post and it does you no favours. I thought the definition of racism was just to pluck a few questionable random quotes from history, if Boris had said the quote about finnish nurses based on their blonde hair and blue eyes you'd be wittering on about dog whistles and the far right but then you have alot in common with Dianne on hypocrisy. Go bother someone else you clueless buffoon.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 29, 2021 9:34:40 GMT
Starmer's big speech today.
To summarise......."I was named after Keir Hardie", "I'm the son of a toolmaker", "When I was Director of Public Prosecutions", "my sister works in the NHS"......
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 29, 2021 10:14:31 GMT
I thought the definition of racism was just to pluck a few questionable random quotes from history, if Boris had said the quote about finnish nurses based on their blonde hair and blue eyes you'd be wittering on about dog whistles and the far right but then you have alot in common with Dianne on hypocrisy. Go bother someone else you clueless buffoon. Thanks for proving my point your definition of racism is based on whether you have the same politics as the person or not explains the cesspit of Labour where 24% of its conference voted against the EHRC legally required changes to the disciplinary process to stop them discriminating against jewish members.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 29, 2021 10:28:24 GMT
Starmer's big speech today. To summarise......."I was named after Keir Hardie", "I'm the son of a toolmaker", "When I was Director of Public Prosecutions", "my sister works in the NHS"...... Poor Keir. A man with a charisma bypass. This is a cruel but brilliant image of him. I think Andy Burnham is rubbing his hands while the clock ticks. He knows it is a matter of when not if.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 29, 2021 10:56:42 GMT
Go bother someone else you clueless buffoon. Thanks for proving my point your definition of racism is based on whether you have the same politics as the person or not explains the cesspit of Labour where 24% of its conference voted against the EHRC legally required changes to the disciplinary process to stop them discriminating against jewish members. And if you'd read the EHRC report and its findings and not the spun version you'd know that they were right to put their heads above the parapet and do so. And there has been dozens of Jewish members protesting outside the conference who have been suspended from the party since Starmer took over, the media don't seem particularly interested by that though it's almost like the issue no longer matters. The establishment use the fight against racism and bigotry as a useful tool as and when it suits. But let's not go round in circles with this again today as I'm just off out........
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Post by dutchstokie on Sept 29, 2021 12:10:07 GMT
Has he started waffling yet ?
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