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Post by partickpotter on Dec 22, 2020 9:54:09 GMT
I don’t think there is a loathing for Labour and the Lib Dems, more a sense of apathy. The loathing of the Tories is a real thing though and goes back to Thatcher generally and the Poll Tax particularly. A toxic legacy of her leadership. That said it’s been nurtured, cultivated and exploited by the SNP in an attempt to reproduce in Scotland the sectarian politics of Northern Ireland (excluding, mercifully, the guns). They are positioning the independence debate not so much as one of independence vs union but of Scotland the Brave (as typified by Nicola and the SNP) vs Foppish England (Boris and the Tories). It could well be a winning strategy for them. In any case, it’s still a strategy. Not something you could accuse the unionist parties of having. Agreed. I lived in Scotland for some time and, until I did, wasn't aware just how hated the Tories are up there. Independence is indeed portrayed as Scotland vs Westminster, or the SNP vs everyone else, that's the prime reason the SNP continues to do so well. That, plus the obvious contrast between what is seen as Sturgeon's competence and Bluffer's dithering ineptitude. That might be unreasonable, given their relative performances, but that's where public opinion is at the present. You’ve misunderstood one vital part of the picture up here. The SNP portray independence as the SNP vs the Toaries not them vs the rest. It’s allows the SNP to raise the spectre of Thatcher - a cultural anathema to many Scots - and to propogate the Poll Tax story as one of Westminster’s institutional unfairness and contempt of Scotland. It’s a very effective approach.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 22, 2020 10:16:07 GMT
Agreed. I lived in Scotland for some time and, until I did, wasn't aware just how hated the Tories are up there. Independence is indeed portrayed as Scotland vs Westminster, or the SNP vs everyone else, that's the prime reason the SNP continues to do so well. That, plus the obvious contrast between what is seen as Sturgeon's competence and Bluffer's dithering ineptitude. That might be unreasonable, given their relative performances, but that's where public opinion is at the present. You’ve misunderstood one vital part of the picture up here. The SNP portray independence as the SNP vs the Toaries not them vs the rest. It’s allows the SNP to raise the spectre of Thatcher - a cultural anathema to many Scots - and to propogate the Poll Tax story as one of Westminster’s institutional unfairness and contempt of Scotland. It’s a very effective approach. I well remember the antipathy towards the Tories and the hatred of Thatcher. In my opinion it's Independence vs Westminster control (and that includes Labour and LD). Happy to agree to disagree, though!
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 22, 2020 10:25:59 GMT
You’ve misunderstood one vital part of the picture up here. The SNP portray independence as the SNP vs the Toaries not them vs the rest. It’s allows the SNP to raise the spectre of Thatcher - a cultural anathema to many Scots - and to propogate the Poll Tax story as one of Westminster’s institutional unfairness and contempt of Scotland. It’s a very effective approach. I well remember the antipathy towards the Tories and the hatred of Thatcher. In my opinion it's Independence vs Westminster control (and that includes Labour and LD). Happy to agree to disagree, though! Appreciate your opinion. I’m just explaining the SNP strategic approach which looks to marginalise Labour and the Lib Dem’s because they see the benefit of portraying Westminster as being a Toarie fiefdom. Sadly, from a unionist perspective, Labour and the Lib Dem’s seem unable to move out of the margins. So the SNP are able to push a line that a vote for independence is a vote for (the blessed) Nicola while a vote against is a vote for (the buffoon) Johnson. Like I say, it’s a very effective approach.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 22, 2020 10:39:42 GMT
I well remember the antipathy towards the Tories and the hatred of Thatcher. In my opinion it's Independence vs Westminster control (and that includes Labour and LD). Happy to agree to disagree, though! Appreciate your opinion. I’m just explaining the SNP strategic approach which looks to marginalise Labour and the Lib Dem’s because they see the benefit of portraying Westminster as being a Toarie fiefdom. Sadly, from a unionist perspective, Labour and the Lib Dem’s seem unable to move out of the margins. So the SNP are able to push a line that a vote for independence is a vote for (the blessed) Nicola while a vote against is a vote for (the buffoon) Johnson. Like I say, it’s a very effective approach. Thanks, likewise. I was looking into the history of Scottish independence last night a bit (I know, get a life!). I didn't realise that the SNP and Plaid Cymru effectively provided a confidence and supply arrangement for the Wilson/Callaghan government which they then withdrew, forcing the May 1979 election and the rise of Margaret Thatcher. Now, you could argue that this was an unforeseen and catastrophic mistake given the treatment of the Scots by Thatcher and the lingering resentment towards the Tories which, as you rightly say, still persists to this day and colours views of the Bluffer in No.10. On the other hand, it may have had the effect of strengthening the independence movement over the last four decades to the point where it now seems quite likely. If so, that's quite an impressive example of playing the political long game! Personally, I'd favour the cock up route, albeit one which has worked out quite nicely in the long run!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 22, 2020 10:46:12 GMT
Previously, Scotland provided a lot of Labour MPs but not so much now, and there was effectively a hung parliament in 2017, with only 7 Scottish Labour MPs, so it's more a case of relying on the red wall in England, which obviously crumbled last time around, plus a general lack of support for the Tories. Starmer has realised, not that it took much realising!, that England is essentially a right wing country and that with decreasing support north of the border, he needs to appeal more to the centre than Corbyn ever would, if he is to be elected. It’s not currently the the number of labour MPs in Scotland It’s the fact that if they left before the election The government would lose 6 MPs and the opposition 57 MPs A almost unsurmountable majority considering that come the next election labour will struggle in wales That's true. Hence the need for Starmer to shift the party towards the centre. Sensibly, in my view. That said, I wonder if, post Scottish independence, English voters might shift away from the right towards the centre, knowing that there are no longer 50 odd 'opposition' MPs to provide a better balance of parliamentary power? England may be a broadly right-wing country, but generally it also doesn't like outright domination by any one party, especially those further away from the centre.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Dec 22, 2020 12:23:51 GMT
Frightening.
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Post by Dutchpeter on Dec 22, 2020 15:33:55 GMT
Starmer needs to pull his finger out. The conservative backbench are acting more like the opposition at the moment.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 22, 2020 15:45:44 GMT
It does make you think what the hell have the Tory’s got to fuck up for labour to lead in the polls
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 22, 2020 16:23:50 GMT
It does make you think what the hell have the Tory’s got to fuck up for labour to lead in the polls Exactly! And people don't think England is essentially a right-wing country? How much worse would it have to get between Covid, Brexit, a crashing economy, hungry kids and government sleaze for people to think they may not be the most competent lot! Of course, it helps if you've got a large swathe of the Press as uncritical as they usually are towards the Tories and a largely tribalistic electorate, the majority of whom will carry on convincing themselves in the face of on-going Conservative ineptitude that, at the very least, a Tory fuck up couldn't be anywhere near as bad as the fuck up a fantasy Labour government would have made, and vote accordingly.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 22, 2020 16:33:46 GMT
It does make you think what the hell have the Tory’s got to fuck up for labour to lead in the polls Exactly! And people don't think England is essentially a right-wing country? How much worse would it have to get between Covid, Brexit, a crashing economy, hungry kids and government sleaze for people to think they may not be the most competent lot! Of course, it helps if you've got a large swathe of the Press as uncritical as they usually are towards the Tories and a largely tribalistic electorate, the majority of whom will carry on convincing themselves in the face of on-going Conservative ineptitude that, at the very least, a Tory fuck up couldn't be anywhere near as bad as the fuck up a fantasy Labour government would have made, and vote accordingly. A credible leader of the opposition might help
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 22, 2020 16:41:13 GMT
It does make you think what the hell have the Tory’s got to fuck up for labour to lead in the polls Exactly! And people don't think England is essentially a right-wing country? How much worse would it have to get between Covid, Brexit, a crashing economy, hungry kids and government sleaze for people to think they may not be the most competent lot! Of course, it helps if you've got a large swathe of the Press as uncritical as they usually are towards the Tories and a largely tribalistic electorate, the majority of whom will carry on convincing themselves in the face of on-going Conservative ineptitude that, at the very least, a Tory fuck up couldn't be anywhere near as bad as the fuck up a fantasy Labour government would have made, and vote accordingly. It’s such a pity more folk don’t possess your wisdom. The world would be so much better.
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 22, 2020 16:57:56 GMT
It does make you think what the hell have the Tory’s got to fuck up for labour to lead in the polls Exactly! And people don't think England is essentially a right-wing country? How much worse would it have to get between Covid, Brexit, a crashing economy, hungry kids and government sleaze for people to think they may not be the most competent lot! Of course, it helps if you've got a large swathe of the Press as uncritical as they usually are towards the Tories and a largely tribalistic electorate, the majority of whom will carry on convincing themselves in the face of on-going Conservative ineptitude that, at the very least, a Tory fuck up couldn't be anywhere near as bad as the fuck up a fantasy Labour government would have made, and vote accordingly. 😁 largely tribalistic electorate There has been nothing more tribalistic than those northern towns where you could put a red rosette on a pig and you didn’t count the vote you weighed it Then Blair ignored them and took them for granted and starmers ridiculous brexit stance was the final straw Labour have took there support for granted they have lost Scotland probably for good The red wall now resembles a slightly pink picket fence And they are in danger of chucking wales away also Durham mining towns voting Tory says a lot Corbyn May have been the catalyst but the reasons have been increasing for years
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Post by thevoid on Dec 22, 2020 18:08:27 GMT
Exactly! And people don't think England is essentially a right-wing country? How much worse would it have to get between Covid, Brexit, a crashing economy, hungry kids and government sleaze for people to think they may not be the most competent lot! Of course, it helps if you've got a large swathe of the Press as uncritical as they usually are towards the Tories and a largely tribalistic electorate, the majority of whom will carry on convincing themselves in the face of on-going Conservative ineptitude that, at the very least, a Tory fuck up couldn't be anywhere near as bad as the fuck up a fantasy Labour government would have made, and vote accordingly. It’s such a pity more folk don’t possess your wisdom. The world would be so much better. Is he going on about England being a right wing country again? He must get a commission for each time he uses that one, it's nearly every bloody post 😆
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Post by dutchstokie on Dec 22, 2020 19:30:47 GMT
It does make you think what the hell have the Tory’s got to fuck up for labour to lead in the polls Exactly! And people don't think England is essentially a right-wing country? How much worse would it have to get between Covid, Brexit, a crashing economy, hungry kids and government sleaze for people to think they may not be the most competent lot! Of course, it helps if you've got a large swathe of the Press as uncritical as they usually are towards the Tories and a largely tribalistic electorate, the majority of whom will carry on convincing themselves in the face of on-going Conservative ineptitude that, at the very least, a Tory fuck up couldn't be anywhere near as bad as the fuck up a fantasy Labour government would have made, and vote accordingly. Blimey....best to to nip out to Tesco quick and stock up on some more bog rolls .....
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 22, 2020 21:16:44 GMT
It does make you think what the hell have the Tory’s got to fuck up for labour to lead in the polls Of course, it helps if you've got a large swathe of the Press as uncritical as they usually are towards the Tories. And part of their ongoing culture war is to convince pillocks on the right that there is some sort of left wing bias in our media. Laughable.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 22, 2020 21:33:22 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 22, 2020 21:56:11 GMT
Some of the best comedy is based on the truth
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 22, 2020 22:18:21 GMT
Some of the best comedy is based on the truth Very true. But that video can’t be described as best comedy... it’s fucking awful.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 24, 2020 8:51:19 GMT
Exactly! And people don't think England is essentially a right-wing country? How much worse would it have to get between Covid, Brexit, a crashing economy, hungry kids and government sleaze for people to think they may not be the most competent lot! Of course, it helps if you've got a large swathe of the Press as uncritical as they usually are towards the Tories and a largely tribalistic electorate, the majority of whom will carry on convincing themselves in the face of on-going Conservative ineptitude that, at the very least, a Tory fuck up couldn't be anywhere near as bad as the fuck up a fantasy Labour government would have made, and vote accordingly. 😁 largely tribalistic electorate There has been nothing more tribalistic than those northern towns where you could put a red rosette on a pig and you didn’t count the vote you weighed it Then Blair ignored them and took them for granted and starmers ridiculous brexit stance was the final straw Labour have took there support for granted they have lost Scotland probably for good The red wall now resembles a slightly pink picket fence And they are in danger of chucking wales away also Durham mining towns voting Tory says a lot Corbyn May have been the catalyst but the reasons have been increasing for years All of which does rather back up the point I made about England being a largely right-wing country, thanks for confirming However, I think your analysis is, not surprisingly, very simplistic. You have to take into account Brexit and all those people who voted Tory simply because they were fed up of hearing about it, which, in my opinion, was the main reason behind Bluffer's 80 seat majority. I wouldn't confuse wanting to see Brexit over and done with so they never have to hear about it again, with being converted to the Conservative cause! The fact that Starmer has gone from being 26 points behind to broadly level in the first six months of his leadership is no mean feat and probably reflects the fact that he's not the unelectable Jeremy Corbyn and that Brexit is nearly done. The fact that the absolute clusterfuck that has been the Conservative government under the Bluffer's first twelve months with all its U-turns, sleaze, corruption and ineptitude still manages to garner 40% support again underlines the fact that a large proportion of folk will vote Tory regardless. Some facts to ignore about England being a largely right-wing country... 1983 Con 46.0% Lab 26.8% 1987 Con 46.2% Lab 29.5% 1992 Con 41.9% Lab 34.4% 1997 Con 33.7% Lab 43.5% 2001 Con 31.7% Lab 40.7% 2005 Con 32.4% Lab 35.2% 2010 Con 39.5% Lab 28.1% 2015 Con 40.9% Lab 31.6% 2017 Con 45.4% Lab 41.9% 2019 Con 47.2% Lab 34.0% In other words, in the last forty years, the only time England has shifted away from the right is when Tony Blair shifted towards the right! And yet some people won't accept that England is a broadly right-wing country!
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 24, 2020 11:39:59 GMT
😁 largely tribalistic electorate There has been nothing more tribalistic than those northern towns where you could put a red rosette on a pig and you didn’t count the vote you weighed it Then Blair ignored them and took them for granted and starmers ridiculous brexit stance was the final straw Labour have took there support for granted they have lost Scotland probably for good The red wall now resembles a slightly pink picket fence And they are in danger of chucking wales away also Durham mining towns voting Tory says a lot Corbyn May have been the catalyst but the reasons have been increasing for years All of which does rather back up the point I made about England being a largely right-wing country, thanks for confirming However, I think your analysis is, not surprisingly, very simplistic. You have to take into account Brexit and all those people who voted Tory simply because they were fed up of hearing about it, which, in my opinion, was the main reason behind Bluffer's 80 seat majority. I wouldn't confuse wanting to see Brexit over and done with so they never have to hear about it again, with being converted to the Conservative cause! The fact that Starmer has gone from being 26 points behind to broadly level in the first six months of his leadership is no mean feat and probably reflects the fact that he's not the unelectable Jeremy Corbyn and that Brexit is nearly done. The fact that the absolute clusterfuck that has been the Conservative government under the Bluffer's first twelve months with all its U-turns, sleaze, corruption and ineptitude still manages to garner 40% support again underlines the fact that a large proportion of folk will vote Tory regardless. Some facts to ignore about England being a largely right-wing country... 1983 Con 46.0% Lab 26.8% 1987 Con 46.2% Lab 29.5% 1992 Con 41.9% Lab 34.4% 1997 Con 33.7% Lab 43.5% 2001 Con 31.7% Lab 40.7% 2005 Con 32.4% Lab 35.2% 2010 Con 39.5% Lab 28.1% 2015 Con 40.9% Lab 31.6% 2017 Con 45.4% Lab 41.9% 2019 Con 47.2% Lab 34.0% In other words, in the last forty years, the only time England has shifted away from the right is when Tony Blair shifted towards the right! And yet some people won't accept that England is a broadly right-wing country! What those numbers show is the country votes for the party they believe is closest to the centre. So not at all what you suggest.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 24, 2020 12:04:35 GMT
You think the current lot are close to the centre? Really?! To me, it says that England has moved significantly to the right since the 1970s.
The Labour Party that became known as New Labour was nothing like the old Labour Party which, in fact, did use to get elected. The only way it became electable again was by moving to the right, reflecting the way the country has similarly moved.
So, over the last four decades England has essentially chosen fully right-wing parties or, briefly, a centrist one.
I think it's an entirely reasonable conclusion to say that England is a right-wing country, by and large.
Not sure why you find this so contentious, or something to take issue with being a Tory supporter yourself, apart from the fact that the country is in a right old mess and the 'trickle down' policies which were supposed to benefit us all from the new approach of monetarism actually hasn't.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 24, 2020 12:37:55 GMT
You think the current lot are close to the centre? Really?! To me, it says that England has moved significantly to the right since the 1970s. The Labour Party that became known as New Labour was nothing like the old Labour Party which, in fact, did use to get elected. The only way it became electable again was by moving to the right, reflecting the way the country has similarly moved. So, over the last four decades England has essentially chosen fully right-wing parties or, briefly, a centrist one. I think it's an entirely reasonable conclusion to say that England is a right-wing country, by and large. Not sure why you find this so contentious, or something to take issue with being a Tory supporter yourself, apart from the fact that the country is in a right old mess and the 'trickle down' policies which were supposed to benefit us all from the new approach of monetarism actually hasn't. It all depends upon what Right and Left mean? Same old same old. The political class. Keir Hardie was a bit of a Nationalist and didn't like Lithuanians coming into the country and taking Scottish jobs. Old Labour used to believe in the country as a given, the current trend , seemingly not so much....voters generally don't like that. I get the impression that the Leaders of France, Germany, Poland, Hungary etc put their country first...I don't get that enthusiastic belief in the current Labour Party....stuck in the old class battle....modern Germany is looking forward in its own interest, one if the best countries on the planet, imho. And personalities of leaders and their perceived competency and sincerity play a part in voting intentions....John Smith or Alan Johnson would have stood a better chance than most of the current crop of Labour frontrunners. And of course Labour got it completely wrong on the big issue of the day, Brexit. Its a shame. www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/04/jeremy-corbyn-total-disaster-europe-says-former-home-secretary/www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/dec/13/i-want-momentum-gone-alan-johnson-slams-labour-left-video
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 24, 2020 14:42:57 GMT
You think the current lot are close to the centre? Really?! To me, it says that England has moved significantly to the right since the 1970s. The Labour Party that became known as New Labour was nothing like the old Labour Party which, in fact, did use to get elected. The only way it became electable again was by moving to the right, reflecting the way the country has similarly moved. So, over the last four decades England has essentially chosen fully right-wing parties or, briefly, a centrist one. I think it's an entirely reasonable conclusion to say that England is a right-wing country, by and large. Not sure why you find this so contentious, or something to take issue with being a Tory supporter yourself, apart from the fact that the country is in a right old mess and the 'trickle down' policies which were supposed to benefit us all from the new approach of monetarism actually hasn't. I don't think that it is doing the Left or Labour any good to blame the electorate for not backing them, we are what we are. The judgment that they are "right -wing" seems to go with it an implication of criticism, that they are uncaring, they are wrong-thinking, they need educating. Labour have been occupied in recent years with identity politics, minority rights, internal fights for the soul if the party etc. By and large the electorate are not interested nor do they think of themselves as right wing, and some do not like to he judged as such. Rather most people want to get on with their lives, without a political axe to grind, to have a secure present and future for themselves and their children, want a fair and safe society that seems to be " heading in the right direction ", want to have a secure job ,want friends and to be able to have a laugh and some pleasure along the way. They want seemingly competent leaders who seem to be fair and will hopefully do their best for society. A surprise to the left, they would like leaders who unreservedly believe in the country and will do the best for the country. To label their values as simply right wing doesn't do Labour any favours....if they are interested in changing things. imho. And have a good Christmas 🎄 Red
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 24, 2020 16:54:09 GMT
You think the current lot are close to the centre? Really?! To me, it says that England has moved significantly to the right since the 1970s. The Labour Party that became known as New Labour was nothing like the old Labour Party which, in fact, did use to get elected. The only way it became electable again was by moving to the right, reflecting the way the country has similarly moved. So, over the last four decades England has essentially chosen fully right-wing parties or, briefly, a centrist one. I think it's an entirely reasonable conclusion to say that England is a right-wing country, by and large. Not sure why you find this so contentious, or something to take issue with being a Tory supporter yourself, apart from the fact that the country is in a right old mess and the 'trickle down' policies which were supposed to benefit us all from the new approach of monetarism actually hasn't. I don't think that it is doing the Left or Labour any good to blame the electorate for not backing them, we are what we are. The judgment that they are "right -wing" seems to go with it an implication of criticism, that they are uncaring, they are wrong-thinking, they need educating. Labour have been occupied in recent years with identity politics, minority rights, internal fights for the soul if the party etc. By and large the electorate are not interested nor do they think of themselves as right wing, and some do not like to he judged as such. Rather midt people want to get on with their lives, without a political axe to grind, to have a secure present and future for themselves and their children, want a fair and safe society that seems to be " heading in the right direction ", want to have a secure job ,want friends and to be able to have a laugh and some pleasure along the way. They want seemingly competent leaders who seem to be fair and will hopefully do their best for society. A surprise to the left, they would like leaders who unreservedly believe in the country and will do the best for the country. To label their values as simply right wing doesn't do Labour any favours....if they are interested in changing things. imho. And have a good Christmas 🎄 Red You too, John, see you next year, no doubt
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Post by heworksardtho on Dec 26, 2020 10:20:19 GMT
I don’t think Sir Kier if he ever got in power would make the the catastrophic mistakes as did Tony Blair with his open door policy of letting every one man and his dog into the country hoping in years to come they would vote Labour
Also Blair will go to his grave with the hundreds of British Soldiers deaths on his watch by following the yanks into the non existent WOMD gulf war, how the bloke can sleep at night god only knows
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 26, 2020 10:47:47 GMT
You think the current lot are close to the centre? Really?! To me, it says that England has moved significantly to the right since the 1970s. The Labour Party that became known as New Labour was nothing like the old Labour Party which, in fact, did use to get elected. The only way it became electable again was by moving to the right, reflecting the way the country has similarly moved. So, over the last four decades England has essentially chosen fully right-wing parties or, briefly, a centrist one. I think it's an entirely reasonable conclusion to say that England is a right-wing country, by and large. Not sure why you find this so contentious, or something to take issue with being a Tory supporter yourself, apart from the fact that the country is in a right old mess and the 'trickle down' policies which were supposed to benefit us all from the new approach of monetarism actually hasn't. I don't think that it is doing the Left or Labour any good to blame the electorate for not backing them, we are what we are. The judgment that they are "right -wing" seems to go with it an implication of criticism, that they are uncaring, they are wrong-thinking, they need educating. Labour have been occupied in recent years with identity politics, minority rights, internal fights for the soul if the party etc. By and large the electorate are not interested nor do they think of themselves as right wing, and some do not like to he judged as such. Rather midt people want to get on with their lives, without a political axe to grind, to have a secure present and future for themselves and their children, want a fair and safe society that seems to be " heading in the right direction ", want to have a secure job ,want friends and to be able to have a laugh and some pleasure along the way. They want seemingly competent leaders who seem to be fair and will hopefully do their best for society. A surprise to the left, they would like leaders who unreservedly believe in the country and will do the best for the country. To label their values as simply right wing doesn't do Labour any favours....if they are interested in changing things. imho. And have a good Christmas 🎄 Red Wasn't there some study done a while ago that suggested the british public is broadly right wing on things like crime, punishment,security,immigration etc and left wing on social issues. I actually think Starmer goes into the new year with more political problems than Boris once they vote for the deal, he will then have two factions opposing him the cultists and hardcore remainics in some ways after 30 years+ the Tories have solved their Europe question now it is a question for Labour.
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 26, 2020 10:57:20 GMT
I don't think that it is doing the Left or Labour any good to blame the electorate for not backing them, we are what we are. The judgment that they are "right -wing" seems to go with it an implication of criticism, that they are uncaring, they are wrong-thinking, they need educating. Labour have been occupied in recent years with identity politics, minority rights, internal fights for the soul if the party etc. By and large the electorate are not interested nor do they think of themselves as right wing, and some do not like to he judged as such. Rather midt people want to get on with their lives, without a political axe to grind, to have a secure present and future for themselves and their children, want a fair and safe society that seems to be " heading in the right direction ", want to have a secure job ,want friends and to be able to have a laugh and some pleasure along the way. They want seemingly competent leaders who seem to be fair and will hopefully do their best for society. A surprise to the left, they would like leaders who unreservedly believe in the country and will do the best for the country. To label their values as simply right wing doesn't do Labour any favours....if they are interested in changing things. imho. And have a good Christmas 🎄 Red Wasn't there some study done a while ago that suggested the british public is broadly right wing on things like crime, punishment,security,immigration etc and left wing on social issues. I actually think Starmer goes into the new year with more political problems than Boris once they vote for the deal, he will then have two factions opposing him the cultists and hardcore remainics in some ways after 30 years+ the Tories have solved their Europe question now it is a question for Labour. This YouGov study is worth a look... Left-wing vs right-wing: it’s complicatedIt’s conclusion makes sense to me...
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 2, 2021 14:47:45 GMT
Could be a momentous day for Starmer, the teaching unions are threatening to revolt and his shadow cabinet's tactics of just answering any question with "follow the science" appears to be floundering so he may have to get off the fence and give an opinion on something. Watch this space folks.......
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 2, 2021 18:24:26 GMT
Could be a momentous day for Starmer, the teaching unions are threatening to revolt and his shadow cabinet's tactics of just answering any question with "follow the science" appears to be floundering so he may have to get off the fence and give an opinion on something. Watch this space folks....... Think its all got a bit much for him. #StarmerQuits is trending!
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 2, 2021 18:29:36 GMT
Could be a momentous day for Starmer, the teaching unions are threatening to revolt and his shadow cabinet's tactics of just answering any question with "follow the science" appears to be floundering so he may have to get off the fence and give an opinion on something. Watch this space folks....... Think its all got a bit much for him. #StarmerQuits is trending! Seems legit
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