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Post by redstriper on Oct 4, 2023 18:20:26 GMT
I've been anti HS2 from the start, a colossal vanity project with a very poor business case which has costs rising exponentially. It was never going to deliver much, and the watering down, changing business practices and rising costs made it untenable. I'm glad we are going to stop throwing good money after bad.
I'd like to see money clawed back from those whose profited excessively, and those politicians who have continually pushed on with this should be held to account for a devasting misuse of public funds (they wont be of course). I share the concerns of people on here saying some landowners will make a fortune and that the north will probably never see all these jam tomorrow promises, with the plan to get it to Euston eating up any free money. The project will be shown up for what it is, more benefit to the south at the expense of everybody else.
But, I don't get why Sunak is getting all the flak here - its not a party political issue- it was a labour idea after all. Sunak has at least had the bollocks to put an end to the madness - after 30 billion has been spunked up a wall...
It's simply another illustration of how our politicians and the system that spawns them is fucking useless. Making it a left-right spat is detracting from the root problem here, which is we are expected to shrug our shoulders and go out and vote for more of the same shit every four years, it's our whole system which stinks.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Oct 4, 2023 18:32:55 GMT
Disgraceful decision to scrap it.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 4, 2023 18:36:29 GMT
They could have spent the money improving existing lines, reopening closed lines and upgrading rolling stock. They din't need to build HS2 to do any more of that it was just bunged in as an add on justification to blowing the money on HS2. They could have also built the new northern powerhouse line (only bits of it were shared with HS2) - the north/south lines aren't actually that bad, it's east/west that is the problem. The west coast main line is to capacity, trains are often overpacked, capacity means less local services on that route. How do you improve existing lines through built up areas like Stoke (and all the other cities and towns) and major interchanges like Crewe and Stockport without causing mayhem for years in the surrounding areas, demolishing existing buildings and infrastructure. I agree some closed local lines could be reopened, and the cross Pennines route is very bad etc but that doesn't get freight off the major roads like the M6 which HS2 would have. The Transpennine Express is ace, there’s a boozer at every stop. Even had a stag do on it once!😉 |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 4, 2023 18:54:38 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 4, 2023 18:56:52 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 4, 2023 19:07:25 GMT
Fixing potholes apparently comes under Sunak's long-term solutions.
Yes, potholes need fixing, but filling a pot hole is only a temporary repair.
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 4, 2023 19:53:12 GMT
Is it necessary to explain to you what has happened to the world since February 2020? I have been a strong supporter of HS2 but the national debt due to the pandemic and the rise in interest rates to suppress inflation due to the war in Ukraine, plus the continued escalating costs of the project, means we can no longer afford it. Things have changed massively in the last 3.5 years. Sunak says he will spend every penny on other projects - does anyone believe politicians promises? I expect he'll announce a few vote winning schemes and suddenly find some money for tax cuts before the next GE. What is Starmer saying we should do? Are Labour going to reinstate HS2 links to the North? I suspect Sunak is onto another vote winner like his rowing back of banning petrol/diesel cars and gas c/h. Some may be celebrating tonight but I think it is a great national shame, but understandable under the circumstances. Some are arguing we should upgrade the old Victorian network. That is totally impracticable. The routes run through built up areas, the disruption would be massive (look how Londoners are complaining about disruption of HS2 into Euston), and the cost would be far higher than a new line through the country side. Motorways cause 3 to 4 times the environmental damage per mile than rail but we are now going to increase the size of (or supplement) the M6 which only encourages more road traffic particularly lorries with distribution centres strung along Britain's motorways. One look at the lorries at Dover/Channel Tunnel is mind boggling. The A1M now ploughs through huge tracts of former farming land, using far more land than a rail line. HS2 meant the old network could be used for more local commuting and freight. Fortunately we have have avoided the rapidly escalating budget of the EU, and being liable for our share of the EU debt, and paying our share of the cost of the destruction of vineyards in France to boost wine prices. (Couldn't avoid that last comment.) |
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 4, 2023 19:57:32 GMT
Having had a bit of time to look at the alternative schemes I think I have come to the conclusion that somehow the Tories have reached new levels of cynical deception.
The list of projects is not properly costed. Given the farce of costings on HS2 they are going even further in making promises that they have no idea about. £1bn to electrify the North Wales Coast line? Not a fucking chance.
They've pulled together a number of the schemes suggested to reverse Beeching cuts because they tickle the balls of Tory voters. Have they been properly costed? No. Have they done cost-benefit analysis? No.
Oh, and then there are no timescales, so when they say the benefits will come sooner they have no idea if that's the case.
Finally, I read elsewhere that keeping the single bus fare to £2 rather than increasing to £2.50 saves someone travelling Lancaster to Kendal £12.50 every time they travel- apparently it really does say this on the gov.uk website.
It's amateurish and an insult to the electorate. Is anyone actually falling for this crap ?
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Oct 4, 2023 20:02:50 GMT
The stoke to leek line begs the question who the fuck wants to go to Leek 😉
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 4, 2023 20:35:40 GMT
I've been anti HS2 from the start, a colossal vanity project with a very poor business case which has costs rising exponentially. It was never going to deliver much, and the watering down, changing business practices and rising costs made it untenable. I'm glad we are going to stop throwing good money after bad. I'd like to see money clawed back from those whose profited excessively, and those politicians who have continually pushed on with this should be held to account for a devasting misuse of public funds (they wont be of course). I share the concerns of people on here saying some landowners will make a fortune and that the north will probably never see all these jam tomorrow promises, with the plan to get it to Euston eating up any free money. The project will be shown up for what it is, more benefit to the south at the expense of everybody else. But, I don't get why Sunak is getting all the flak here - its not a party political issue- it was a labour idea after all. Sunak has at least had the bollocks to put an end to the madness - after 30 billion has been spunked up a wall... It's simply another illustration of how our politicians and the system that spawns them is fucking useless. Making it a left-right spat is detracting from the root problem here, which is we are expected to shrug our shoulders and go out and vote for more of the same shit every four years, it's our whole system which stinks. Agree with this. Scrapping HS2 now is a shit decision. Continuing is a shit decision. The shittiest decision was going ahead with it in the first place. The UK has lost out massively on this and a small number of people have made an absolute fortune out of it. Same with the water system. Same with the energy system. And the Tories and Labour have colluded in the rip off. Can't stand the Tories but Sunak is making the right decision here. It will kill him politically and he'll try to spin it but it's still the right decision. He's taking the hit for someone else's fuck up. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 4, 2023 20:50:46 GMT
I've been anti HS2 from the start, a colossal vanity project with a very poor business case which has costs rising exponentially. It was never going to deliver much, and the watering down, changing business practices and rising costs made it untenable. I'm glad we are going to stop throwing good money after bad. I'd like to see money clawed back from those whose profited excessively, and those politicians who have continually pushed on with this should be held to account for a devasting misuse of public funds (they wont be of course). I share the concerns of people on here saying some landowners will make a fortune and that the north will probably never see all these jam tomorrow promises, with the plan to get it to Euston eating up any free money. The project will be shown up for what it is, more benefit to the south at the expense of everybody else. But, I don't get why Sunak is getting all the flak here - its not a party political issue- it was a labour idea after all. Sunak has at least had the bollocks to put an end to the madness - after 30 billion has been spunked up a wall... It's simply another illustration of how our politicians and the system that spawns them is fucking useless. Making it a left-right spat is detracting from the root problem here, which is we are expected to shrug our shoulders and go out and vote for more of the same shit every four years, it's our whole system which stinks. The UK has lost out massively on this and a small number of people have made an absolute fortune out of it. Same with the water system. Same with the energy system. And the Tories and Labour have colluded in the rip off. I'd be really grateful if you could detail just where and when this collusion between the Torries and Labour to rip off the HS2 project and the water and energy infrastructures took place. Specifically, which individuals were involved in the negotiations and how they actually, ultimately, executed their plan and to what end? |
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Post by lordb on Oct 4, 2023 21:17:05 GMT
Having had a bit of time to look at the alternative schemes I think I have come to the conclusion that somehow the Tories have reached new levels of cynical deception. The list of projects is not properly costed. Given the farce of costings on HS2 they are going even further in making promises that they have no idea about. £1bn to electrify the North Wales Coast line? Not a fucking chance. They've pulled together a number of the schemes suggested to reverse Beeching cuts because they tickle the balls of Tory voters. Have they been properly costed? No. Have they done cost-benefit analysis? No. Oh, and then there are no timescales, so when they say the benefits will come sooner they have no idea if that's the case. Finally, I read elsewhere that keeping the single bus fare to £2 rather than increasing to £2.50 saves someone travelling Lancaster to Kendal £12.50 every time they travel- apparently it really does say this on the gov.uk website. It's amateurish and an insult to the electorate. Is anyone actually falling for this crap ? They have an 80 seat majority so millions did last time |
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Oct 4, 2023 21:34:44 GMT
The stoke to leek line begs the question who the fuck wants to go to Leek 😉 It also begs the question of who from Leek would want to go to Stoke, apart from going to the match (of course)? Stoke and surrounding areas is like the land that time forgot 😉 We're not used to dodging people on monkey dust when walking up the street. You should use this service if it becomes available. Will be like a holiday for most 🤣 |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 4, 2023 22:05:28 GMT
The UK has lost out massively on this and a small number of people have made an absolute fortune out of it. Same with the water system. Same with the energy system. And the Tories and Labour have colluded in the rip off. I'd be really grateful if you could detail just where and when this collusion between the Torries and Labour to rip off the HS2 project and the water and energy infrastructures took place. Specifically, which individuals were involved in the negotiations and how they actually, ultimately, executed their plan and to what end? They colluded in a policy sense, not in an individual way. The Tories started subtracting public works, Labour under Blair went along with it and the current Tory administration brought it to a natural conclusion - the mass transfer of public money into a small number of private hands. It wasn't a plan/conspiracy. It was a political/economic strategy that has failed the people of this country on a massive scale. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 4, 2023 22:42:52 GMT
I'd be really grateful if you could detail just where and when this collusion between the Torries and Labour to rip off the HS2 project and the water and energy infrastructures took place. Specifically, which individuals were involved in the negotiations and how they actually, ultimately, executed their plan and to what end? They colluded in a policy sense, not in an individual way. The Tories started subtracting public works, Labour under Blair went along with it and the current Tory administration brought it to a natural conclusion - the mass transfer of public money into a small number of private hands. It wasn't a plan/conspiracy. It was a political/economic strategy that has failed the people of this country on a massive scale. So they didn't actually *collude* with each other at all then? |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 5, 2023 0:12:19 GMT
It'd actually be quite amusing if it wasn't so serious ...
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Post by redstriper on Oct 5, 2023 7:27:25 GMT
I've been anti HS2 from the start, a colossal vanity project with a very poor business case which has costs rising exponentially. It was never going to deliver much, and the watering down, changing business practices and rising costs made it untenable. I'm glad we are going to stop throwing good money after bad. I'd like to see money clawed back from those whose profited excessively, and those politicians who have continually pushed on with this should be held to account for a devasting misuse of public funds (they wont be of course). I share the concerns of people on here saying some landowners will make a fortune and that the north will probably never see all these jam tomorrow promises, with the plan to get it to Euston eating up any free money. The project will be shown up for what it is, more benefit to the south at the expense of everybody else. But, I don't get why Sunak is getting all the flak here - its not a party political issue- it was a labour idea after all. Sunak has at least had the bollocks to put an end to the madness - after 30 billion has been spunked up a wall... It's simply another illustration of how our politicians and the system that spawns them is fucking useless. Making it a left-right spat is detracting from the root problem here, which is we are expected to shrug our shoulders and go out and vote for more of the same shit every four years, it's our whole system which stinks. Agree with this. Scrapping HS2 now is a shit decision. Continuing is a shit decision. The shittiest decision was going ahead with it in the first place. The UK has lost out massively on this and a small number of people have made an absolute fortune out of it. Same with the water system. Same with the energy system. And the Tories and Labour have colluded in the rip off. Can't stand the Tories but Sunak is making the right decision here. It will kill him politically and he'll try to spin it but it's still the right decision. He's taking the hit for someone else's fuck up. Bang on. It would have cost 100 billion to finish it, think about that number - 100 billion pounds ffs, to knock 40 mins off a trip to london. A trip which fewer business people make since we all started to do remote meetings, and a trip which i used to do every month, and said from the start what would have helped was more tables and better wifi, enabling the 2 hours to be spent productivly, at a cost of a few million, a shorter journey time means less work, not more. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 5, 2023 7:43:23 GMT
They colluded in a policy sense, not in an individual way. The Tories started subtracting public works, Labour under Blair went along with it and the current Tory administration brought it to a natural conclusion - the mass transfer of public money into a small number of private hands. It wasn't a plan/conspiracy. It was a political/economic strategy that has failed the people of this country on a massive scale. So they didn't actually *collude* with each other at all then? They colluded in terms of adopting the same policies. That's still a form of collusion. You are using a very narrow definition of what it means to "collude" - I never meant to use it in that sense, you misread my intent. |
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Post by Northy on Oct 5, 2023 8:12:26 GMT
Agree with this. Scrapping HS2 now is a shit decision. Continuing is a shit decision. The shittiest decision was going ahead with it in the first place. The UK has lost out massively on this and a small number of people have made an absolute fortune out of it. Same with the water system. Same with the energy system. And the Tories and Labour have colluded in the rip off. Can't stand the Tories but Sunak is making the right decision here. It will kill him politically and he'll try to spin it but it's still the right decision. He's taking the hit for someone else's fuck up. Bang on. It would have cost 100 billion to finish it, think about that number - 100 billion pounds ffs, to knock 40 mins off a trip to london. A trip which fewer business people make since we all started to do remote meetings, and a trip which i used to do every month, and said from the start what would have helped was more tables and better wifi, enabling the 2 hours to be spent productivly, at a cost of a few million, a shorter journey time means less work, not more. It was going to halve the journey from Manchester to London by over an hour. What about getting the freight off the roads, what about easing capacity on the existing networks in order to get better local services, you know how shit the Chester to Manchester line is, nothing can be done because of the bottle neck at Stockport, and that goes for so many local services that run that way, opening up areas for new growth and business opportunities I agree that the costs seem to be getting out of control, but HS2 wasn't just about cutting journey times between 2 cities, 2 weeks ago I was sat on a train travelling at 250 km/h from the southern tip of Italy to Naples, their high speed line has opened up tourist areas previously very hard to get to, opened up capacity on the local lines with new rolling stock, getting people moving about creating opportunities, we look amateurish compared to the European train network |
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Post by superjw on Oct 5, 2023 10:03:45 GMT
Bang on. It would have cost 100 billion to finish it, think about that number - 100 billion pounds ffs, to knock 40 mins off a trip to london. A trip which fewer business people make since we all started to do remote meetings, and a trip which i used to do every month, and said from the start what would have helped was more tables and better wifi, enabling the 2 hours to be spent productivly, at a cost of a few million, a shorter journey time means less work, not more. It was going to halve the journey from Manchester to London by over an hour. What about getting the freight off the roads, what about easing capacity on the existing networks in order to get better local services, you know how shit the Chester to Manchester line is, nothing can be done because of the bottle neck at Stockport, and that goes for so many local services that run that way, opening up areas for new growth and business opportunities I agree that the costs seem to be getting out of control, but HS2 wasn't just about cutting journey times between 2 cities, 2 weeks ago I was sat on a train travelling at 250 km/h from the southern tip of Italy to Naples, their high speed line has opened up tourist areas previously very hard to get to, opened up capacity on the local lines with new rolling stock, getting people moving about creating opportunities, we look amateurish compared to the European train network From the pioneers of the train network and industry in general to the embarrassing amateurs we are now. Funny how a country that’s turned so cost heavy and mismanaging can’t deliver big projects anymore or to any sort of reasonable budget. What we have done is lost our touch |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 5, 2023 10:08:56 GMT
It was going to halve the journey from Manchester to London by over an hour. What about getting the freight off the roads, what about easing capacity on the existing networks in order to get better local services, you know how shit the Chester to Manchester line is, nothing can be done because of the bottle neck at Stockport, and that goes for so many local services that run that way, opening up areas for new growth and business opportunities I agree that the costs seem to be getting out of control, but HS2 wasn't just about cutting journey times between 2 cities, 2 weeks ago I was sat on a train travelling at 250 km/h from the southern tip of Italy to Naples, their high speed line has opened up tourist areas previously very hard to get to, opened up capacity on the local lines with new rolling stock, getting people moving about creating opportunities, we look amateurish compared to the European train network From the pioneers of the train network and industry in general to the embarrassing amateurs we are now. Funny how a country that’s turned so cost heavy and mismanaging can’t deliver big projects anymore or to any sort of reasonable budget. What we have done is lost our touch We have allowed the greedy capitalists to skim off huge amounts from the public purse. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 5, 2023 10:19:23 GMT
Bang on. It would have cost 100 billion to finish it, think about that number - 100 billion pounds ffs, to knock 40 mins off a trip to london. A trip which fewer business people make since we all started to do remote meetings, and a trip which i used to do every month, and said from the start what would have helped was more tables and better wifi, enabling the 2 hours to be spent productivly, at a cost of a few million, a shorter journey time means less work, not more. It was going to halve the journey from Manchester to London by over an hour. What about getting the freight off the roads, what about easing capacity on the existing networks in order to get better local services, you know how shit the Chester to Manchester line is, nothing can be done because of the bottle neck at Stockport, and that goes for so many local services that run that way, opening up areas for new growth and business opportunities I agree that the costs seem to be getting out of control, but HS2 wasn't just about cutting journey times between 2 cities, 2 weeks ago I was sat on a train travelling at 250 km/h from the southern tip of Italy to Naples, their high speed line has opened up tourist areas previously very hard to get to, opened up capacity on the local lines with new rolling stock, getting people moving about creating opportunities, we look amateurish compared to the European train network You don't need a high speed rail link to get freight off the roads or create new growth and business opportunities. You can all of those things by targeting the money directly at those issues - not funnelling the money into something else and hope for spin off benefits that will require extra investment that is no longer there because you've already spent it on the something else. The point of this decision is that the supposed benefits - even if they come off - won't pay for the thing that is supposed to make them happen. They are putting the money directly into the hoped for spin offs because they will generate more value per pound invested. It's a national embarrassment but it's the right decision in terms of financial responsibility. |
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Post by aureliuspotter on Oct 5, 2023 10:21:43 GMT
It was going to halve the journey from Manchester to London by over an hour. What about getting the freight off the roads, what about easing capacity on the existing networks in order to get better local services, you know how shit the Chester to Manchester line is, nothing can be done because of the bottle neck at Stockport, and that goes for so many local services that run that way, opening up areas for new growth and business opportunities I agree that the costs seem to be getting out of control, but HS2 wasn't just about cutting journey times between 2 cities, 2 weeks ago I was sat on a train travelling at 250 km/h from the southern tip of Italy to Naples, their high speed line has opened up tourist areas previously very hard to get to, opened up capacity on the local lines with new rolling stock, getting people moving about creating opportunities, we look amateurish compared to the European train network From the pioneers of the train network and industry in general to the embarrassing amateurs we are now. Funny how a country that’s turned so cost heavy and mismanaging can’t deliver big projects anymore or to any sort of reasonable budget. What we have done is lost our touch The country is fucked and that's how it will remain so long as the Torys and Labour are the only 2 realistic options. |
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Post by Northy on Oct 5, 2023 11:01:55 GMT
It was going to halve the journey from Manchester to London by over an hour. What about getting the freight off the roads, what about easing capacity on the existing networks in order to get better local services, you know how shit the Chester to Manchester line is, nothing can be done because of the bottle neck at Stockport, and that goes for so many local services that run that way, opening up areas for new growth and business opportunities I agree that the costs seem to be getting out of control, but HS2 wasn't just about cutting journey times between 2 cities, 2 weeks ago I was sat on a train travelling at 250 km/h from the southern tip of Italy to Naples, their high speed line has opened up tourist areas previously very hard to get to, opened up capacity on the local lines with new rolling stock, getting people moving about creating opportunities, we look amateurish compared to the European train network You don't need a high speed rail link to get freight off the roads or create new growth and business opportunities. You can all of those things by targeting the money directly at those issues - not funnelling the money into something else and hope for spin off benefits that will require extra investment that is no longer there because you've already spent it on the something else. The point of this decision is that the supposed benefits - even if they come off - won't pay for the thing that is supposed to make them happen. They are putting the money directly into the hoped for spin offs because they will generate more value per pound invested. It's a national embarrassment but it's the right decision in terms of financial responsibility. How are you going to get freight off the roads when the existing system is old and full to capacity, without building new infrastructure across green belt land ? |
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Oct 5, 2023 11:20:07 GMT
It was going to halve the journey from Manchester to London by over an hour. What about getting the freight off the roads, what about easing capacity on the existing networks in order to get better local services, you know how shit the Chester to Manchester line is, nothing can be done because of the bottle neck at Stockport, and that goes for so many local services that run that way, opening up areas for new growth and business opportunities I agree that the costs seem to be getting out of control, but HS2 wasn't just about cutting journey times between 2 cities, 2 weeks ago I was sat on a train travelling at 250 km/h from the southern tip of Italy to Naples, their high speed line has opened up tourist areas previously very hard to get to, opened up capacity on the local lines with new rolling stock, getting people moving about creating opportunities, we look amateurish compared to the European train network You don't need a high speed rail link to get freight off the roads or create new growth and business opportunities. You can all of those things by targeting the money directly at those issues - not funnelling the money into something else and hope for spin off benefits that will require extra investment that is no longer there because you've already spent it on the something else. The point of this decision is that the supposed benefits - even if they come off - won't pay for the thing that is supposed to make them happen. They are putting the money directly into the hoped for spin offs because they will generate more value per pound invested. It's a national embarrassment but it's the right decision in terms of financial responsibility. They aren't really putting the money into other schemes though. They just say they are. They said they were electrifying to Swansea. Cancelled it. They said they were electrifying the Midland main line. Did some of it, then said it would stop at Kettering/Corby and cancelled the rest. Then realised they needed to get to Market Harborough to get electricity so started that bit again. Then, when the eastern leg of HS2 was cancelled they said they would complete the MML electrification , as far as I know the final go-ahead for that is still awaited. Meanwhile they now say they are going to electrify the North Wales Coast for a fraction of the likely cost, while far more beneficial schemes are ignored. It's like a bunch of Tory wankers sat round a table saying which ones are going to be most embarrassing to other parties when they don't deliver if they gain power. Of course if the Tories stay in power they will just push out most of the projects and reannounce them for the following election campaign. It's rancid, and undermining the country at every turn. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 5, 2023 11:32:46 GMT
It was going to halve the journey from Manchester to London by over an hour. What about getting the freight off the roads, what about easing capacity on the existing networks in order to get better local services, you know how shit the Chester to Manchester line is, nothing can be done because of the bottle neck at Stockport, and that goes for so many local services that run that way, opening up areas for new growth and business opportunities I agree that the costs seem to be getting out of control, but HS2 wasn't just about cutting journey times between 2 cities, 2 weeks ago I was sat on a train travelling at 250 km/h from the southern tip of Italy to Naples, their high speed line has opened up tourist areas previously very hard to get to, opened up capacity on the local lines with new rolling stock, getting people moving about creating opportunities, we look amateurish compared to the European train network They are putting the money directly into the hoped for spin offs because they will generate more value per pound invested. Hmmm ... you genuinely believe that's going to happen then? I can't believe just how easily some people can be placated, after everything that's taken place. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 5, 2023 11:45:27 GMT
You don't need a high speed rail link to get freight off the roads or create new growth and business opportunities. You can all of those things by targeting the money directly at those issues - not funnelling the money into something else and hope for spin off benefits that will require extra investment that is no longer there because you've already spent it on the something else. The point of this decision is that the supposed benefits - even if they come off - won't pay for the thing that is supposed to make them happen. They are putting the money directly into the hoped for spin offs because they will generate more value per pound invested. It's a national embarrassment but it's the right decision in terms of financial responsibility. How are you going to get freight off the roads when the existing system is old and full to capacity, without building new infrastructure across green belt land ? You upgrade the existing tracks, re-open lines that were closed in the Beaching era, double up the existing lines and upgrade the rolling stock. Where you do need to build on the green belt you do it between areas that aren't served ok by the existing infrastructure - north/south is relatively well serviced, especially in and out of London, east/west isn't, especially across Lancashire and Yorkshire. The idea that HS2 was essential for these other things to happen is nonsense. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 5, 2023 11:50:22 GMT
They are putting the money directly into the hoped for spin offs because they will generate more value per pound invested. Hmmm ... you genuinely believe that's going to happen then? I can't believe just how easily some people can be placated, after everything that's taken place. It may or may not happen. The point is at least it might happen whereas carry on with HS2 it definitely won't happen. At least a Labour government will have some money to use once the Tories are ousted and, despite my reservations about Starmer's Labour, there's a good chance they will do something constructive with it. Scrapping HS2 is the least crap of 2 crap options. And fair play to Sunak for making the call. |
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Post by eddyclamp on Oct 5, 2023 12:08:47 GMT
The stoke to leek line begs the question who the fuck wants to go to Leek 😉 I saw that, can someone enlighten me as to the advantages of this line reopening? |
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Post by knype on Oct 5, 2023 12:38:00 GMT
Paul, stop being so bitter If you're happy to repeatedly have your pants pulled down and watch your hard earned taxes get deliberately syphoned off, to make very wealthy people even richer, then you jolly well crack on mate. It's always happened whether Tory or Labour, nothing will change! |
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