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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 6, 2020 22:23:44 GMT
As I said earlier we had great spells under Hughes and we played some great stuff in the Stokealona spell but as I’ve said on numerous occasions to you and many others on here in MY OPINION he totalled ruined our club in the end which I cannot forgive him for. First of all Mutts put the word opinion in capitals, neon lights, give it a pair of tits if you want, it doesn’t make it sacred or unchallengable. Second, what I was taking issue with was your suggestion that the good times were briefer than they actually were, which is nonsense. Im not saying it’s unchallengeable at all and we’ll disagree on your 2nd point for now because I’m off to bed👍 |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 6, 2020 22:27:22 GMT
First of all Mutts put the word opinion in capitals, neon lights, give it a pair of tits if you want, it doesn’t make it sacred or unchallengable. Second, what I was taking issue with was your suggestion that the good times were briefer than they actually were, which is nonsense. Im not saying it’s unchallengeable at all and we’ll disagree on your 2nd point for now because I’m off to bed👍 That’s great, I just don’t see what there is to disagree over. If that spell wasn’t good then I’d be interested to know which spell during our 10 years in the Premier League was - you certainly have higher standards now than you did when his predecessor was in charge.  |
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Post by Championship Potter on Feb 6, 2020 22:42:54 GMT
He’s not in charge of recruitment or scouting though. He should take a fair amount of blame for Berahino and Wimmer because they were domestic players and by all accounts he pushed those deals though but the other players he would have had next to no knowledge of. This was on top of us massively underinvesting vs every other team around us, so there was little margin for error. He was in charge of recruitment in that he identified the players, he pushed for the players and he had the final say? What do you mean he’d have had next to no knowledge of the players, what are you basing that on? My understanding (and this is how most top clubs operate as far as I know) is that Hughes identifies the positions he wants to fill in the squad. The recruitment team then come back with 3 or 4 options for the position and then attempt to sign the best from the shortlist we can. Hughes gets the final say but if the recruitment team only present crap options to him he’s ultimately screwed. Fair to give him some of the blame, but with the calibre of players bought in that summer it was clearly a botched scouting job from an arrogant and complacent recruitment team. |
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Post by berahinosgoals on Feb 6, 2020 22:48:39 GMT
Mark hughes tactical masterclass, what was it again?? ... "go out and play like man city"? Or was it liverpool?
Genius mark, genius
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 23:07:04 GMT
Mark hughes tactical masterclass, what was it again?? ... "go out and play like man city"? Or was it liverpool? Genius mark, genius It was genius. We hammered em. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 6, 2020 23:09:17 GMT
He was in charge of recruitment in that he identified the players, he pushed for the players and he had the final say? What do you mean he’d have had next to no knowledge of the players, what are you basing that on? My understanding (and this is how most top clubs operate as far as I know) is that Hughes identifies the positions he wants to fill in the squad. The recruitment team then come back with 3 or 4 options for the position and then attempt to sign the best from the shortlist we can. Hughes gets the final say but if the recruitment team only present crap options to him he’s ultimately screwed. Fair to give him some of the blame, but with the calibre of players bought in that summer it was clearly a botched scouting job from an arrogant and complacent recruitment team. That’s only partly how it works though isn’t it? It’s not like he’s totally blind and they just come back with a list for him to pick from. Numerous signings were clearly his own choices he himself identified and wanted, as was with the case with Rowett and Jones? He had connections at Chelsea, Barca and in Germany, he even signed players he’d tried to sign before or had worked with before? |
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Post by Gods on Feb 6, 2020 23:17:04 GMT
It's a straight shoot out for me over whether Tony Waddington or Mark Hughes delivered the best football and results for Stoke City in the last 50 years. For sure Tony Pulis laid the foundations for the Mark Hughes revolution but it was under Hughes we were really 'cookin'.
Waddington, Pulis and Hughes, best we have seen in the modern era.
The Lou years were great fun too but it was Div 3 / Div 2, we weren't locking horns with the great and the good of English football.
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Post by harlequin on Feb 6, 2020 23:19:32 GMT
I think his expansionist tendencies undid him a bit in the end, some of his transfers seemed more a flex of power than part of a well thought out strategy.
I would still have him back if O'neil left.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 6, 2020 23:27:26 GMT
It was good for a spell of two and a half years or so. Just because we had bad spells and didn’t win or play well every single week doesn’t make it worth denigrating. It wasn’t ‘like it’ all the time under anyone, was it? As I said earlier we had great spells under Hughes and we played some great stuff in the Stokealona spell but as I’ve said on numerous occasions to you and many others on here in MY OPINION he totalled ruined our club in the end which I cannot forgive him for. Our club is now a total ruin then? If Hughes “totally ruined” our club I’d hate to know what Alan Ball, Brian Little and Nathan Jones (among others) did. This is just unnecessary hyperbole, we don’t have to pretend one of our most successful managers of recent times was the worst thing that’s ever happened to Stoke in order to correctly criticise how his reign turned out. |
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Post by Gods on Feb 6, 2020 23:29:04 GMT
I think his expansionist tendencies undid him a bit in the end, some of his transfers seemed more a flex of power than part of a well thought out strategy. I would still have him back if O'neil left.I'm quite certain we all would, it was utterly reckless to sack him when we did and it cost us our Premier League status, but would he now return to a lower 2nd division team hamstrung financially by FFP rules? |
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Post by Olgrligm on Feb 6, 2020 23:48:13 GMT
Personally, my favourite football was in the final third of the 2010-11 season, but this was really the peak of our time in the PL, I think. Even though there were still some highs after this, such as the remarkable back to back wins against the Manchester teams, it was all downhill from the 6-1.
We never replaced N'Zonzi, but replacing a world class midfielder as a mid table team is not exactly easy.
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Post by Championship Potter on Feb 7, 2020 0:22:49 GMT
My understanding (and this is how most top clubs operate as far as I know) is that Hughes identifies the positions he wants to fill in the squad. The recruitment team then come back with 3 or 4 options for the position and then attempt to sign the best from the shortlist we can. Hughes gets the final say but if the recruitment team only present crap options to him he’s ultimately screwed. Fair to give him some of the blame, but with the calibre of players bought in that summer it was clearly a botched scouting job from an arrogant and complacent recruitment team. That’s only partly how it works though isn’t it? It’s not like he’s totally blind and they just come back with a list for him to pick from. Numerous signings were clearly his own choices he himself identified and wanted, as was with the case with Rowett and Jones? He had connections at Chelsea, Barca and in Germany, he even signed players he’d tried to sign before or had worked with before? Jesé, Imbula and Choupo he would have barely known existed so I’m not sure he can take much blame for those. Even Wimmer he would have had limited awareness of (I’m assuming he wasn’t regularly watching the Tottenham U23s team). Jesé and Choupo were penny pinching signings - I can’t imagine he Hughes was thrilled with either of those as options to replace Arnautovic. I get the impression Rowett and Jones were more hands on - probably partly because the approach of targeting foreign players under Hughes failed and also because both have a strong preference for domestic players. |
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Post by harlequin on Feb 7, 2020 0:25:31 GMT
I think his expansionist tendencies undid him a bit in the end, some of his transfers seemed more a flex of power than part of a well thought out strategy. I would still have him back if O'neil left.I'm quite certain we all would, it was utterly reckless to sack him when we did and it cost us our Premier League status, but would he now return to a lower 2nd division team hamstrung financially by FFP rules? It was just a personal sentiment really without consideration for it's likelihood.
But it looks a fun hypothetical, so to answer your question probably not, but in a choosing a manager you'd think the more rewarding options that have any chance would be tested out first. And there's always the slim chance he'd want to return as a conquering hero.
Also, at the point O'neil leaves we could be in a much better position.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 7, 2020 3:30:23 GMT
That’s only partly how it works though isn’t it? It’s not like he’s totally blind and they just come back with a list for him to pick from. Numerous signings were clearly his own choices he himself identified and wanted, as was with the case with Rowett and Jones? He had connections at Chelsea, Barca and in Germany, he even signed players he’d tried to sign before or had worked with before? Jesé, Imbula and Choupo he would have barely known existed so I’m not sure he can take much blame for those. Even Wimmer he would have had limited awareness of (I’m assuming he wasn’t regularly watching the Tottenham U23s team). Jesé and Choupo were penny pinching signings - I can’t imagine he Hughes was thrilled with either of those as options to replace Arnautovic. I get the impression Rowett and Jones were more hands on - probably partly because the approach of targeting foreign players under Hughes failed and also because both have a strong preference for domestic players. Choupo was a player he’d tried to sign when Arnie was here, he was another of his Bundesliga finds. He had a track record of shopping there long before he came to Stoke. It’s naive and narrow to assume because a manager is British he automatically has no knowledge of players or leagues overseas. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 7, 2020 3:42:01 GMT
So the whole 2 years was fantastic then🤔 Oh sorry, the entirety of the year has to be good according to the criteria now? Which manager bar Waddo has delivered that for us as a top flight side? Most of it was pretty damn good by our standards? We had the odd bad run but when didn’t we as a Premier League side? Bar Waddo? In 71/72 we finished 6th from bottom. 72/73 we finished 15th. The next two seasons we finished fifth. But anyway, during the halcyon days there was plenty of mediocrity. IMHO, a big difference is people are more cynical now. Which is why during our premier league decade I pointed out we were experiencing a golden age. By any historical measure being a comfortable premier league club was a great time for us. I"m glad I enjoyed it. Plenty of us didn't seem to. |
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Post by Caerwrangonpotter on Feb 7, 2020 4:57:35 GMT
We had the recipe for finest football cuisine in a Stoke On Trent way, and ended up making it with tripe & dog meat For Hughes, Carto & Scholes read Wimmer,Imbula & Berahino Read em & weep guys.  |
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Post by berahinosgoals on Feb 7, 2020 6:23:00 GMT
I think his expansionist tendencies undid him a bit in the end, some of his transfers seemed more a flex of power than part of a well thought out strategy. I would still have him back if O'neil left.I'm quite certain we all would, it was utterly reckless to sack him when we did and it cost us our Premier League status, but would he now return to a lower 2nd division team hamstrung financially by FFP rules? Each to their own but I certainly wouldn't, wouldn't even be on my shortlist of 20, not even close. Imo Mark Hughes milked tony pulis' legacy, scfc are now milking mark Hughes' legacy. Looking forward to seeing where his next gig is, you have to be pretty unimaginative to hire him, for me. It had taken him 5 years to dismantle tp's foundations of success and fill the squad full of shit. So far we are on 2 years and counting to fully recover from a mark hughes speciality. That's counting from when he was sacked too which was of course 18 month too late, so we have been absolute dog shit for 3 years & 6 month Thanks mark 👏 |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 7, 2020 7:29:14 GMT
Oh sorry, the entirety of the year has to be good according to the criteria now? Which manager bar Waddo has delivered that for us as a top flight side? Most of it was pretty damn good by our standards? We had the odd bad run but when didn’t we as a Premier League side? Bar Waddo? In 71/72 we finished 6th from bottom. 72/73 we finished 15th. The next two seasons we finished fifth. But anyway, during the halcyon days there was plenty of mediocrity. IMHO, a big difference is people are more cynical now. Which is why during our premier league decade I pointed out we were experiencing a golden age. By any historical measure being a comfortable premier league club was a great time for us. I"m glad I enjoyed it. Plenty of us didn't seem to. Bar Waddo in terms of the years we finished fifth I meant Joe. Mutts was suggesting that even the good times weren’t very good because we didn’t win every single week. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 7, 2020 7:48:36 GMT
Brede Hangeland was one of the better players at Fulham when Hughes was there and he is less than impressed by Hughes' tactical nous. He even said they were told to play in a way that the players knew would lead to defeat. After some time the players decided to do it their own way and the results started to improve. As they got the results Hughes kept his gob shut, but they didn't win because of Hughes' tactical awareness but despite of it. This is exactly what Hangeland told the Nowegian people as a pundit for TV2 in Norway.  |
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Post by JoeinOz on Feb 7, 2020 8:37:36 GMT
Bar Waddo? In 71/72 we finished 6th from bottom. 72/73 we finished 15th. The next two seasons we finished fifth. But anyway, during the halcyon days there was plenty of mediocrity. IMHO, a big difference is people are more cynical now. Which is why during our premier league decade I pointed out we were experiencing a golden age. By any historical measure being a comfortable premier league club was a great time for us. I"m glad I enjoyed it. Plenty of us didn't seem to. Bar Waddo in terms of the years we finished fifth I meant Joe. Mutts was suggesting that even the good times weren’t very good because we didn’t win every single week. That's how it can be. Somewhere there's a Liverpool fan saying this season is wank because they drew away to the shit. 😁😁 |
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Post by StaffordPotter on Feb 7, 2020 8:48:31 GMT
No ..... its not Coventry away Fuck me, I still have nightmares about that day. The only good thing that came from it was we finally pulled the plug on him. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 8:49:29 GMT
Brede Hangeland was one of the better players at Fulham when Hughes was there and he is less than impressed by Hughes' tactical nous. He even said they were told to play in a way that the players knew would lead to defeat. After some time the players decided to do it their own way and the results started to improve. As they got the results Hughes kept his gob shut, but they didn't win because of Hughes' tactical awareness but despite of it. This is exactly what Hangeland told the Nowegian people as a pundit for TV2 in Norway. Whereas Danny Murphy praises him for the same season he was in charge. Like any other work place in the world, ask several people about the boss and you'll probably get different answers..... |
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Post by robwahlmann on Feb 7, 2020 8:55:54 GMT
Brede Hangeland was one of the better players at Fulham when Hughes was there and he is less than impressed by Hughes' tactical nous. He even said they were told to play in a way that the players knew would lead to defeat. After some time the players decided to do it their own way and the results started to improve. As they got the results Hughes kept his gob shut, but they didn't win because of Hughes' tactical awareness but despite of it. This is exactly what Hangeland told the Nowegian people as a pundit for TV2 in Norway. Whereas Danny Murphy praises him for the same season he was in charge. Like any other work place in the world, ask several people about the boss and you'll probably get different answers..... With Wilson's comments about him as well I really believe he knew nothing about defensive play. In the beginning he reaped the reward of having players and defensive structure inherited from Pulis, and with the blend of attacking talent Hughes brought in it really clicked for a while. Unfortunately he didn't have the eye to spot why it worked out and got rid of the wrong characters in the group.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 9:03:27 GMT
Oh sorry, the entirety of the year has to be good according to the criteria now? Which manager bar Waddo has delivered that for us as a top flight side? Most of it was pretty damn good by our standards? We had the odd bad run but when didn’t we as a Premier League side? Im not disputing we had some great times just like we did with Pulis but let’s not pretend it was like it all the time. We’re Stoke City, it’s about as good as we can bloody expect. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2020 9:08:22 GMT
I think his expansionist tendencies undid him a bit in the end, some of his transfers seemed more a flex of power than part of a well thought out strategy. I would still have him back if O'neil left. I suppose we'd have to hope we didn't get the post-Anfield Hughes 👍 |
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 7, 2020 9:14:22 GMT
I think his expansionist tendencies undid him a bit in the end, some of his transfers seemed more a flex of power than part of a well thought out strategy. I would still have him back if O'neil left. Same here fella….the connections he has in the game, plus, if we're being honest, hes been there seen it and done it at the highest level for some of footballs biggest hitters, can only benefit a club..... - whoever that may be. |
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Post by jonnybravo on Feb 7, 2020 9:21:53 GMT
Don't like to say it but he probably would of kept us up
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 7, 2020 10:00:24 GMT
Never happened apparently Of course it happened ...Hughes started brightly ... bringing in quality attackers like arnautovic shaquiri Moses bojan to give us more quality in attack When it later came to the tricky bit of replacing the steel and backbone of the team ...Whelan Huth Walters delap Wilko ...Hughes was spectacularly let down by scholes and carto and the three of them ( Hughes scholes carto ) made a spectacular and amateur mess of things He initially started well , and then surrounded by amateurs , lost the plot There is not much more to say Ever wonder what would have happened if we got Maguire, Robertson, lamina and Cedric. Instead of wimmer, MVG, |
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Feb 7, 2020 10:14:40 GMT
Of course it happened ...Hughes started brightly ... bringing in quality attackers like arnautovic shaquiri Moses bojan to give us more quality in attack When it later came to the tricky bit of replacing the steel and backbone of the team ...Whelan Huth Walters delap Wilko ...Hughes was spectacularly let down by scholes and carto and the three of them ( Hughes scholes carto ) made a spectacular and amateur mess of things He initially started well , and then surrounded by amateurs , lost the plot There is not much more to say Ever wonder what would have happened if we got Maguire, Robertson, lamina and Cedric. Instead of wimmer, MVG, That way madness lies. |
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Post by chigstoke on Feb 7, 2020 10:16:41 GMT
Of course it happened ...Hughes started brightly ... bringing in quality attackers like arnautovic shaquiri Moses bojan to give us more quality in attack When it later came to the tricky bit of replacing the steel and backbone of the team ...Whelan Huth Walters delap Wilko ...Hughes was spectacularly let down by scholes and carto and the three of them ( Hughes scholes carto ) made a spectacular and amateur mess of things He initially started well , and then surrounded by amateurs , lost the plot There is not much more to say Ever wonder what would have happened if we got Maguire, Robertson, lamina and Cedric. Instead of wimmer, MVG, The team could have looked drastically different
Butland Cedric - Shawcross - Maguire - Robertson
Lemina - Witsel (allegedly) Shaqiri - Bojan - Arnie Diouf?
I like the look of that. |
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